GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

Ok, I just gone outside, starting on my engine swap.  So far, so smooth (for the most part.)  I'm on the taking my bike apart process....  So far, got the seat off, gas tank, air box, choke lever/accel/switches and carb.  SO MANY HOSES ! ! !  Anyways, I have a hose, comming out of the bottom of the airbox, that looks like it got melted by the muffler..  anyone know where this go??

Also, there are a few lines that go nowhere..  Like the line that goes from the middle of both carb inlets, which doesn't seem to go anywhere??  Also from the gas tank but I assume this is the overflow line..

Things I"ve leanred so far.

DIS DANG BIKE GOT A GRIP OF HOSEs n' WIRES! ! !
you need to YANK the airbox out.
That lil' bracket thing that holds the gas tank on, ISN"T A LATCH
bikes could possibly be messier to work on than cars (DANG CHAIN LUBE.)
Gas on an open wound stings like a muther..(cut myself w/ a screwdriver.. go figure.)
Carbs have a lot of hoses that go through them...  Know where they go!
the gas tank can be sealed, and left closed, w/ out draining it  :thumb:
and THAT THIS SWAP WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE IF i DON'T GET A 2ND HAND!

anyways, here are a few questions that came up, while I was breaking my bike apart.
1)That hose that burned off.. anyone know wehre it goes?  (it's under the airbox.)
2)would it be smart to change the sprocket now that the engine is taken apart?
3)how do you take the clutch cable off??  It seems like I have to pry the little thing open w/ a flathead, but it woni't fit inside the gap....
4)There's a wire that goes through, by the clutch line and shifter..  wtf is it, and how do I get it off?  Or do I unplug it from the bike end, not the engine end??

Thanks I kno confusing, but help a kid out=) :mrgreen:  :cheers:

1)That hose that burned off.. anyone know wehre it goes? (it's under the airbox.)

this is a drain hose for acumulated oil from blowby, spose to exit bottom of bike almost looks like its pinched closed, its so water and debris cant work its way back upline.

2)would it be smart to change the sprocket now that the engine is taken apart?  

you can if you like doesnt matter in or out of frame

3)how do you take the clutch cable off?? It seems like I have to pry the little thing open w/ a flathead, but it woni't fit inside the gap....  why pull the cable from the coverside?

DQ it from the lever side and fish it out, or just let it hang off the bike if you gonna change the sproket anyway.

4)There's a wire that goes through, by the clutch line and shifter.. wtf is it, and how do I get it off? Or do I unplug it from the bike end, not the engine end??

there should be 2, one contains 3 wires from your stator for your charging system and the other is a single wire that is for your neutral light

unless you have to swap these to new motor, disconnect them from the harness, also disconnect the ignition wires that come from under right hand cover and use a tie wrap, or wire tie to bundle them ontop of starter.

care for a basic write up on engine R&R?

Quote from: TeBoTHAT THIS SWAP WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE IF i DON'T GET A 2ND HAND!:

You can do it...just ask us if you have questions.

Quote from: TeBo1)That hose that burned off.. anyone know wehre it goes?  (it's under the airbox.)

It goes nowhere, just drape it back by the shock.  Same thing with the one that comes of the top T connection on the carbs.  I think same thing with the one from the bottom of the airbox too.  Sounds like you had a Cali model that they took all the emissions crap out of.

Quote from: TeBo2)would it be smart to change the sprocket now that the engine is taken apart?

It only takes like 5 minutes to do.  Not any easier to do it now, unless you have the rear wheel off, that's what would make it easier.  But seriously, no need to rush out and buy a sprocket now...Soooo simple to do it later on.  It's easier to do than removing the tank....that's for sure.  Remove the side plate that covers the front sprocket and there is a circlip holding on the sprocket.  It's hard to remove without circlip removers though.  Might want to get yourself some.  I bought mine from the bargain bin at Autozone for $3.99.  Money well spent.

Quote from: TeBo3)how do you take the clutch cable off??  It seems like I have to pry the little thing open w/ a flathead, but it woni't fit inside the gap....

Just remove the whole plate on the left side that you see the cable going into.  Leave it off until you swap the engines and put the old plate onto the new engine.

Were you talking about removing the clutch cable from the lever itself?  

Quote from: TeBo4)There's a wire that goes through, by the clutch line and shifter..  wtf is it, and how do I get it off?  Or do I unplug it from the bike end, not the engine end??

:dunno:


:cheers:

Heh...guess you beat me to it, Blue... :cheers:

ok, going from the point of bike on centerstand or 2x4 tied across handlebars resting on tall Saw horses (not everyone has a chainfall in thier carport) you want the bike straight up and stable, (i also tie 2 concrete blocks to the front tire jsut for added hold from rolling.)

Baggies help alot keeping bolts, nuts,screws and other small stuff seperated and safe. cardboard box helps hold baggies  :)

DQ= Disconnect

remove the seat, set out of the way.
Battry removed and in safe place.

unbolt the fueltank, shutoff the fuel, DQ the 2 hoses and remove the tank and set on a old folded towel, out of the way, make sure its not leaking fuel.

remove the bolts for tankmount and loosen the clamps for the airbox (if equiped) remove airbox.

loosen the clamps holding the carbs to the engine, pop the carbs out of the engine(dont turn them upside down, gas will leak out) you may DQ the fuellines and cables if you like, label them with tape and take notes so your not guessing later. I let mine hang over the left side of theframe

on the left side of the bike,  remove shifter bolt, pull shifter put bolt back in shifter, remove the bolts for the shifter cover and put them in a baggie with the shifter

at this point i generaly pull the snap ring for the front sprocket and slide the sproket off the shaft, letting the chain hang on the swingarm, put the sproket and snap ring in the bag with the shifter cover bolts

pull the screws for the starter cover(baggie), unbolt the positive lead for starter, put the nut back on the starter.

follow the "wires" from the shifter cover area to the harness, DQ them at the plugs and drap them over the engine.you may lable them with tape if you like. DQ the Negitive battry cable where it connects to engine (mine is on the starter mount bolts by my choice)

look at the harness coming from ignition trigger behind small cover on right side of engine, follow it to harness and DQ the plug(label?), now take those other 2 wires from opposite side and bundle them all together so they dont fall all over while your moving the engine around later. tape,tiewrap, or string will work fine.  



remove the bolts holding the exhaust on, bag and box the bolts (put the gaskets in the bag too if they happen to come out)

DQ the coil wires going to spark plugs loop them into the frame, DQ the tachometer drive cable (tie it to a forkleg)

remove all the short bolts and nuts from the engine cradle "Breast Bone" as i call it, Bag em,  remove the long bolts and nuts from front and just below the engine, watch for the spacers there should be 2 long, and 2 short, 4 total. slide the spacers back on the bolts put the nuts on them.

You know should have the "breast Bone" laying on the ground, set it out of the way.  you should be on right side of the bike at this point

easyest way to handle the engine with only one person doing this is with a rolling floor jack, extra hands help, but hard to watch 4 hands all the time. placing the jack under the engine around the oil drain plug, perhaps just infront of it (tward front of bike) is about center of the weight, pump the jack up till it just touches the engine

remove the 2 remaining nuts on the bolts behind the engine, the engine might sag alittle in fram, might not. pump the jack again super slow till you see the engine shift alittle in the frame. pull the bolts out and slowly wiggle (or pry with screwdriver) the engine forward in the frame till it clears the rear mounts

(BE CAREFUL ITS HEAVY AND WILL HURT IF YOU PINCH ANYTHING BETWEEN FRAME AND ENGINE)

once past the rear mounts, slowly turn the back of the engine tward  the right side, you might have to shift the head around alittle to do this, ballence on the jack is very important.(extra hands help here but again, hard to keep track of) once the rear of the engine is out, slowly lower the jack in small amounts,( keeping one hand on the egine to keep it ballenced on the jack if working alone) slowly roll the jack/engine tward you away from frame.  watch your feet plz. lower the jack all the way down (SLOWLY) tip the egine over till it touches ground, and pull the jack out.

putting an engine back in is the reverse, its alittle more tricky getting back in the mounts so keep your helper around if you can. once you get the 2 rear bolts inplace you got it licked.

Key factor is taking your time, dont get in a rush.  if you get frustrated walk away for alittle bit. always stay safe.  the first time i assembled my GS, it took me over an hour to get the engine installed into the frame.

i dont think i forgot anything, my bike is setup alittle differnt then most so i dont have as many steps with mine.

right now im filterless, not even an airbox. need a lunchbox to be honnest.

blue thanks for all the info! ! !

My whole swap is actually based on instructions you gave another guy on this board, and was linked to me by Kerry..  So all the help is appreciated.  
The throttle, throttle cable, Choke and all the other fun stuff just came in the mail today.  So all I say is IMma have sum fun later this afternoon tryin to fit this stuff on :D.  

It looks like all the wiring on the bars are hooked on, so I should have no problem hookin' it to the new engine.  We'll see how everything goes=).  I will be picking up the new engine tomorrow, so we'll have to see how it goes from there=)

FUN New CHALLENGE ! ! !

I just found out, the wiring plugs from the 01 wiring cables, are different from the ones I havew. :x ...  oh well, here goes my theory....

When I looked at the old cables, it looks like they mostly run the same colored wires..  THing is, it seems like they just bundled up more stuff in one harness in the new wiring system.  I was wondering if I should just cut the old harness off, and splice it into my new wires.  Thing is, there are a few wires that I don't have in the old one.  Like the new Wiring harness throttle side, have 2 wires that seem to end up in the same place?  (Colored orange/blue, and Orange/yellow I think.)  the rest seems pretty straight forward.  Boy would I laugh if when I put my bike in neutral, I start to signal left :lol:  but we'll see.. thanks for all the help so far  :cheers:

GAWD GEEZ I LUV FORUMS ! ! ! ! :thumb:

you could grab a new stator cover gasket(9$) and just swap over your old stator keeping the same plug. the ignition trigger leads should be the same on all the gs500's, but they are easy enough to transplant too.  no problrm at all with splicing the nuetral light wire, have at it.

so does anyone agree w/ me, not necessarily know. but:

is it ok to believe the same colored wires from teh pre '01's would match the wire colors for the 01+ wirings??

why guess when you dont have to? use your old stuff, or look it up in the book

hahah seems like someone up in the clouds don't want me to get my engine today!  BUT I DID ! ! !  So now I have the engine sitting in the garage, ready for swapping tomrrow.. (if rain isn't too hard.)   as an added SUPER BONUS:  It includes the WIRING HARNESS ! ! !  so now I can prolly just slap this harness on, and basically have a whole '01 setup, on a pre 01 chassis  :thumb:   so let's wait till tomorrow to see if I could actually get this stuff slapped on right :dunno:

I HATE THIS RAIN ! ! !

Quotesitting in the garage

:?  Um, there is a word in there that seems to be Key, regaurdless of Outside weather. engine swap doesnt take much room to perform.   AND, if you dont finnish in one day, push the bike in tight to the wall, spare/old engine behind it pull the car back in.

normally, sure..  Except that I live in a Condo, w/ a small closed garage, that right now houses an '88 BMW M3, w/ a Evo3 engine half way in.  Plus there are no lights in my garage.  So I have to pull my bike out to my outside parking spot to work on it.  It would normally be done in  a day, except for a few factors.  1)  It's friggin' raining the past how many days here.  2)I still need to borrow a Hydraulic jack (I don't think my lil' screw 'em up jack would work.)  3) it took me ever dry moment I've had to put in the new wiring harness ('01 harness is different from the old ones.)  and last 4), I tried lifting that engine by myself..  Dude..  It's heavy!  heheh.. I still need to find time when me and my best friend both have the day off. (Which woulda been yesterday if it wasn't pouring.)  

I just want to get this over with, but geez..  Feels like someone up in the clouds really don't want me riding=P :dunno:

But really tho, This swap proves to be a lil' more difficult than I thought.  Oh well, we'll see

its a tad heavy true, i know i have to ready myself to put it on my bench above the waist.  remember to use your legs.

a little cheapy 20$ rolling floor jack is all i used, i think pep boys and Advance auto still sell em

I took mine out in Nov

Hopefully Ill get it back together soon

(http://www.streetraceperformance.com/albums/Stripping-Down-The-Bike/bike1.jpg)

(http://www.streetraceperformance.com/albums/Stripping-Down-The-Bike/bike3.jpg)

(http://www.streetraceperformance.com/albums/album11/1_G.sized.jpg)

I think the engine out and in, might be the easy part.  I just need to get the wiring harness in properly.  I guess someone took out the wiring harness off my old wires, cuz there are some extensions that are just crimped, as opposed to having the connectors.  So now I have to splice the new wires to fit as well.  This is where it's been complicated so far.  I need to get everything in soon.

I just hate going into the garage, and lookin' at my bike, all in pieces.  But then again, I also need to find hte time and everything to finish.

You hate when you go in the garage....
Mine is sitting in my bedroom in that pic

I cant wait till its all back together
Evere sicne I got this stupid GS for my lady Iv been neglecting my poor 6R

hahah. gee..  Yea, other problem.. . .   I just got a Gixr600 as well, but instead of riding it on my free time, I'm workin' on the GS500 gettin'f rustrated.  Just something about that bike that I can't help but love.  Oh well. . .  Back to the garage

WHOA YEA DOGGY ! !   hahah. finally got the old engine out, and did it with my WIND ME UP FLOOR JACK!  ! !  Since my jack didn't have wheels, I couldn't do the put it on the jack, pull it forward, turn it to the side, and pull it out....  It was more like Jack it up, grab hold tight, wiggle wiggle wiggle, pull the jack down, wiggle some more, and more, and more, and then twist it out=)..  :lol:  :dunno:   anyways, found a good way to get the old motor from my driveway to the garage too.  hahah..  take my old Razor scooter, and slide the old motor on top, sit on the motor, and push away! ! ! !  hard part down, HARDER PART TO GO! ! ! :x

i've found the most important thing (in a car anyway) engine swap it to LABEL EVERYTHING.  you THINK you will remember what bolt, harness, plug, connecter goes where, but 2 months later you WON'T remember....

hahahah.. I did that actually...  I put all the bolts from teh old engine, into the new one.  It's the hoses that I"m woried about, but i have a diagram for it on another page I think??  

Kerry, wanna show me that hose diagram u had again??

BTW.. anyone have a picture of the cables that hook up to the rear signals??  I got confused and lost where they go.. lol.. my signals are spliced.  any hlep?

Quote from: TeBoKerry, wanna show me that hose diagram u had again??

It's always available from a link on my home page, but here's the direct link.

hey kerry.. you seem to have the pictures to every single part of the bike..  Got pictures of the wires that mount to the rear signals??  are they different lookin' from Pre01 to 01+?  thanks a bunch

Unfortunately, because of my luggage racks (http://www.bbburma.net/Riderhaus.htm) I have had to move the turn signals up and back - so far that the wires can't reach the connectors on the wiring harness.  I have added homemade "extension wires" between the turn signals and the wiring harness.  But hopefully you can piece together the pictures that I just took and come to a definite conclusion.

Here is the location of the wiring harness connectors on the right side of my 2000 model.  The "extension wires" have regular, RED-sized bullet connectors crimped onto them.
(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_2122_2000TurnSignalWiringHarnessConnectors_HomemadeExtension.jpg)


Here is one of the wiring harness connectors that I cut off of the left side before I realized that they would accept the standard RED-sized bullet connectors:  :oops:
(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_2120_2000TurnSignal_WiringHarnessConnector.jpg)


This is a stock 2004 (I think) turn signal.  I bought a full set from someone the board, but I haven't installed them yet.
(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_2118_2004TurnSignal.jpg)


And here is a close-up of the stock 2004 turn signal wire ends:
(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_2119_2004TurnSignal_WireEnds.jpg)


Finally, a picture showing that the 2004 wire ends fit into the pre-'01 wiring harness connectors.
(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_2121_2004TurnSignalWire_2000WiringHarnessConnector.jpg)


But I'm not sure - did that answer your question?  :dunno:

I get it for the most part.. I just need to know what color the harness is on the motorcycle end now  :oops:   thanks kerry :cheers:

You may be in luck!  While looking through my photo collection for "Utah pictures" I ran across this shot of the left-side connectors on my old '96 BEFORE I cut them off. ( :oops: )

The wire colors from the wiring harness match the ones from the turn signal: one is all black and the other is black with a white stripe.

(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/DCP_1527_1996_TurnSignalConnectors.jpg)

Do you have a pre-'01 or an '01+?

thanks !  that's what I needed.. heheh.. I have a '98, but I had to change the wiring harness to the 01 version to fit all the electronics properly.  thanks a bunch again=)

UPDATE::

well, got the NEW ENGINE IN! ! ! ! !  heheh.. after about 45 minutes of wrestling w/ it, taking it down, hoisting up, taking down, nudging here, kicking there, hoisting up, I finally wedged it (crowbar style) in.  got all the bolts in, surprised to have everything seemingly fine, got the carb on (but the airbox seems to not fit right..  might need a lil' elbow grease to get it in.  I got most of the wires on, (except the signal light wires and whatnot.)  Wrestled w/ the wire that comes from the clutch side for a while thinking "uh oh, they're all yellow wires from this engine."  finally figuring out, that my old wires still had the connector on it, not needing to splice anything.  

I tried to dry start it, to see if it even turns, but I didn't even get a click from when I pushed the ignition button..   :dunno: lights didn't dim, or anything.  any idea??  thanks a bunch for all you guys' help :D

oh still contemplating on why my old engine suddenly blows out of nowhere..  anyone think it could be because the bike was in storage for such a long time (5 yrs.), and I pulled it out of the box, and revved the $hn!tz out of it??  maybe I shoulda rebroken the engine in.  Definitely breaking this engine in b4 I try to do anything stupid on it :thumb:

Quote from: TeBogot the NEW ENGINE IN! ! ! ! !

Wahoo!

Quote from: TeBoI tried to dry start it, to see if it even turns, but I didn't even get a click from when I pushed the ignition button..

Obvious stuff:

Ignition switch ON - Yep
Kill switch ON - ?
Clutch lever PULLED - ?
Sidestand UP (or in transmission in Neutral) - ?[/list:u]Other stuff:
Ground wire connected - Yep
Positive wire connected from + battery terminal to starer relay - Yep
Fuse OK - Yep
Sidestand switch connected OK - ?
Diode connected OK - ?
Starter relay OK - ?  (See

Haynes Starter Relay Test Procedure)[/list:u]If none of that helps, let's try again....

well I know she turns on, cuz the lights go on when I switch it in the on position.  Neutral light on and everything..  

Never tried to pull the clutch in..  my old bike started w/ the clutch lever never being pulled.  Could be cuz I was on the stand, but I thought I was in neutral.  I'll try again tomorrow

Kerry you are the MAN! ! !  !

did you connect the starter wire? :roll:

if the engine you just installed is Used and Not a Fresh rebuilt starting for the first time, then put good oil in it, rub the tank on the right side CCW then the stator cover CW while talking sweetly to it. Push the start button and drive it normaly.

Quote from: Blueknytdid you connect the starter wire?

Wouldn't the starter relay still click?  :dunno:

yeah, generaly, unless his system is back feeding through another means for power, the starting Circut might not be getting any feed. As unlikly as it sounds, ive seen it happen.   bike systems are funny, i can start Just about any one of them, have lights and everything with one small tiny 12v battery and never one put a key in the ignition. Or, just 2 wires with aligator clips and no extra batt. Back feed is funny.

I've connected all the wires I saw sticking from the engine..  The 2 that came out of the clutch side, the negative from the bottom of the engine, and the wires that came out of the stator (positive)....  I haven't installed any of the lights yet as well..  I highly doubt it's that either..  

I also noticed, that w/ the lights not installed, I check my signal left, and it blinks my guage light like normal. I click it right, and it doesn't..  wierd...

another stupid question.. what's the diode?

Quote from: TeBowhat's the diode?

A diode will let current flow in one direction and not in the other.  On my '99 the diode is attached to the wiring harness HERE:



I understand that on '89 models (and possibly other early years) it was in a different position.

If you're able read a wiring diagram you can get some general "connection" clues from this Haynes one.  The diode is in the upper center....

it was the relay..  so great to actually hear the bike TURN ! ! ! !  so yea, the engine turns at least.  I got excited, and put everything back together just enough to see if it'll start.  She winds up alright, except she wouldn't start.  It'll sound like it's about to turn over, but it doesn't.  there are a few things that I think might be the case.....

On the chassis side petcock, there was a 4th hole (all the way in the back, small hole.)  I don't know if anything goes on it...  (I'm thinkin' it's off the output side of the carb top line?)

advancer looks rusted..

I hear a sound when it turns, like a plastic ball in a coffee can, everytime I try to turn the ignition.


Things that I don't think would make a difference, but just might:  None of the lights are plugged in, and I'm really dumb at these things...

I'd put a half-teaspoon of oil into each cylinder (and some on each valve shim, if you can); leave the sparkplugs out, put the bike in 4th gear and turn the rear wheel with my hand.  You probably want to fix any rattling noises before the engine starts spinning and thousands of rpm.  Or you may find yourself shopping for another.

Can you post a pic of the right-side ignition?

I have a strong feeling that it has something to do w/ the opening on the petcock that I don't seem to know where it goes.  If I was sitting on the bike, it would be the one front side, to the farthest left (smallest opening.). . .  Anyone know where this goes??  Also could it be that I might need fresh gasoline??  Since the gas in my tank has been sitting for a month?

Month-old gas should be OK.  If you're suspicious of the petcock, consider running the front fuel line from the fuel tank petcock straight to the lower T-connector between the carbs.

This would be just until you get the engine running ... you can reroute the hoses later and troubleshoot that stuff separately.

I'm not suspcious if the petcock is broken or something.  If it worked w/ my old engine, it should work now.   It's just that, I noticed 3 holes on the front side of the petcock (and one hole in the back.)  but I don't know where that 3rd hole goes.  It's not in the diagram you showed me, nor is it on the sticker on the bike...

All of the (non-CA) fuel hoses should be shown / labeled / described on my Fuel Hose Routing (http://www.bbburma.net/FuelHoseRouting.htm) page.

The diagram at the bottom of the page CAN be misleading because of the way multiple hoses visually overlap at the angle it was drawn at.  If there is a question about something in the diagram, go back to the text and photos at the top of the page and mentally connect the hoses to the "holes" as described.

The short, farthest-left "hole" you describe from the petcock sounds like the inlet for the ON hose.  The other end of the ON hose attaches to the shorter, rear-most  outlet of the fuel tank petcock.

kerry, sent you an email w/ the picture of what I'm curious about.  thanks

Now I see the problem.  When you said

Quote from: TeBoI have a strong feeling that it has something to do w/ the opening on the petcock that I don't seem to know where it goes. If I was sitting on the bike, it would be the one front side, to the farthest left (smallest opening.). . .

You meant "to the farthest right" then ... right?  This one on the back? (Haynes photo)  :dunno:



The unconnected "hole" in the photo is for the vacuum hose.  If that hose is not connected, or there is a hole or rip in the hose, then you will have fuel delivery problems when the fuel selector switch is turned to the ON or RES positions.  That's because the petcock will not allow fuel to flow in those positions unless it receives vacuum impulses from the left carburetor.  And THAT is so there will be very little risk of a fuel overflow when you park your bike.

Back on my fuel hose routing page: Read through the 4th bulleted item at the top of the page.  Since GRU didn't label the vacuum hose in his photos I resorted to a verbal description to go along with the pictures.  The hose should exit the petcock, come up between the carburetors, and attach to the vacuum port on the front right "corner" of the left-side carburetor.

Assuming that the rest of the hoses are hooked up right, you should be able to run the bike without the vacuum hose by turning the petcock to the PRI position (which allows fuel to flow due to gravity rather than vacuum impulses).  However, without a vacuum hose in place you would want to cap the vacuum port on the carburetor.

EDIT: Perhaps one more diagram would be helpful.  Look at this one from BikeBandit.  Item 53 is the vacuum hose - the diagram shows approximately where it connects to the left carburetor.

also, how many turns should the fuel needle be turned??  I just realized I haven't even touched the fuel needle from the new carb, therefore it could be all the way up or all the way down for all I konw.  Thanks tho.. I get it now, I think I had put that hose into the fuel pump instead of the petcock..  maybe that was where I'm starting to go awry in my diagrams..  (Dag nang asian kid... learn hwo to read blue prints :guns:  :o )

Now you're confusing ME.  Fuel pump?

Hopefully Srinath or another carb expert will come along and answer the "fuel needle" question.  I still haven't fiddled with mine....

sorry kerry.. I meant the "Canister"??  as it's called on the sticker under the seat :thumb:   anyways, gave it a good 3 hrs earlier.  Seem to ahve all the hoses down right.  Everything was properly put in.  started it up, and she wound up, but died right away.  so I'm guessing I have a few thigns right so far.  That wierd noise is killing me tho.  I don't know if its supposed to do that.  It's like a sound comming from a coffe can being shaken w/ a plastic ball inside it or something.  I checked the pistons through the spark plug holes (took the spark plugs out, then started it, and checked if the pistons went up and down.)  and they did.  So good sign. . .  Anyways, I'll try again prolly tomorrow night  or something.  

ONE WIERD THING:  After a while of trying to get the bike to start, I noticed smoke comming out of the small hole in the bottom of the airbox.  anyone have any idea what that could be??


more fun:  AFter a while, I just started taking a break, then went to my garage and took apart the old engine to see what was wrong w/ it.  Took the top part off, opened the cams, and everything seems fine.  Took the head off the longbolts, and WHOOOWEEE ! ! ! !  Right side piston was not only stuck in the sleeve, connecting rod is gone, and left side piston looks burned.  I look inside the block, and see chips of metal everywhere.   whoa fun.  Now I feel stupid for still tyring to think that it could still run. . .  hahah..  anyone want parts off an engine??  (taht I still have that seems ok.)

Bluknyte.. I might have that top part you wanted.  I'll PM you.

Hey tebo, I was talking to my brother and he says that he remembers there being a screw loose down where the ignition advancer is (inside the cover,  that may be the rattling you hear.  Im glad to hear that the install went ... "ok".  Hope you get it started soon, sounds like your close.

I didnt notice where you mentioned it, but did you change the oil before you tried to turn it over?  I know I did not change it in the 2 or so months it sat in the garage, and I have no idea when or if the guy before me change it.

yea, I changed it to Quaker HiPerf 10W30 oil.  I drained out the old oil. . .  I talked to a mechanic and he said "Dude, well, it sounds wierd, but it doesn't sound like something you should worry about.  Unless you hear a wierd loud sound that stops the engine man, well, dude..  Give it a go."  So I guess it's ok for now anyways.  I have a new plan:  Take apart the old carb, just to see that I can and put it back together.  Then, I'll take apart the new carb, and clean it out.  I think it might just be that...

I jus tnoticed.  Thanks kerry, for that diagram of the carb from bike bandit.  Should be a great deal of help pulling apart and putting together that 64 pcs.  puzzle (as it seems.)

haha "dude, give it a go" typical. robert pirsig was right

Quote from: dane_lindsayhaha "dude, give it a go" typical. robert pirsig was right

Who's Robert Pirsig??

Quote from: TeBoWho's Robert Pirsig??

The author of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

lll

ok, looked over everything..  Still no go..  Last thing I could think of is the Carb..  I'm gonna try to slap the old carb on, see if it works.. if it does, then Imma take the new carb to the shop and get it worked over (cuz I can't do carbs for shiznitz.)

SHE's ABOUT TO START ! ! !  I. . .   COULD...  TASTE IT ! ! !  well, ok, not taste it, but I could feel it....  It seems like she wants to turn over. . .  I guess there's just some sort of clog in the system that it's trying to burn out or something.  Could it be because maybe there might be oil in the cylinder?  or is that normal?

Anyways, I'll charge the battery back up overnight, and try again in the morning (Day off.. woohoo!  ! !)

Someone told me to put half a teaspoon of oil in the engine, so I put it thru the hole of the spark plug..  I'm guessing I might have messed up on that one huh?  anyways, let's pray for tomorrow...

Quote from: TeBoSomeone told me to put half a teaspoon of oil in the engine, so I put it thru the hole of the spark plug..  I'm guessing I might have messed up on that one huh?

Sounds right to me.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.  :thumb:

Quote from: TeBoSHE's ABOUT TO START ! ! !  I. . .   COULD...  TASTE IT ! ! !  well, ok, not taste it, but I could feel it....  It seems like she wants to turn over. . .  I guess there's just some sort of clog in the system that it's trying to burn out or something.  Could it be because maybe there might be oil in the cylinder?  or is that normal?

Anyways, I'll charge the battery back up overnight, and try again in the morning (Day off.. woohoo!  ! !)

Someone told me to put half a teaspoon of oil in the engine, so I put it thru the hole of the spark plug..  I'm guessing I might have messed up on that one huh?  anyways, let's pray for tomorrow...

Oil in the cylinder is great ... yea ... but do not crank it over with the spark plugs in ... guess they forgot to tell you that ... you crank it over wihtout the plugs so the oil gets everywhere, and most of the oil will come flying out the plug hole ... yes get your eye in there ... oil at 60 knots = fun ... then you may want to put a wee bit of gas in there and crank again but do that just before trying to start ... basically the chamber should be free of oil and have almost no gas as a liquid in it either ... Any fluid in there causes hydrolock ... fluid wont compress and you are trying to get it to compress ... Bad ... anyway just before starting the gas should take out the oil and leave very little gas that first try that gas will light up and act a bit like starting fluid ...
Cool.
Srinath.

after a fwe months of workin' on it, and a whole bunch of tryin,

new engine, new a  whole bunch of things, 3 weeks of every night in the garage workin', and A WHOLE BUNCH OF CHEMICAL BURNS FROM GAS AND OTHER STUFF IN MY WOUNDS/EYE,

I GIVE UP ! ! !  yea, it sux, but I just can't get it to run.  I tried everything, and it's still a no go.. so

Anyone need parts off a '98 gs500e?  or 2k1 engine??

OK what is it doing when you try to start it ... giving up early is cheaper and less painful by a loooong way ... Parting it out you're gonna have to endure all that pain again ... might be easier to fix it ...
Cool.
Srinath.

When I try to start it, it winds up, and I can hear chugging from the muffler. but it won't turn over...  Then my battery just ends up dying...

I got so frustrated earlier... so angry, and so upset that I couldn't get my bike to start,

That I fixed the problem...  Went to the dealer close by and bought an '02 CBR F4i...  so I guess the bike's gonna go up for sale, unless I decide to make it a project.

Take the spark plugs out and try to start it. Also did you open the left case and check ... you may have magnet bits jamming the thing if your magnet is busted. You gave up rather quick for 5 months of working on it. You bought a motor that was running right ... Then oil in chamber is my first guess ...
Cool.
Srinath.

is there spark at BOTH plugs? are both coils operating correctly?

i'm about to start the same swap, '02 engine to a '96 bike

I'm the one who said to put some oil in:

Quote from: Rema1000I'd put a half-teaspoon of oil into each cylinder (and some on each valve shim, if you can); leave the sparkplugs out, put the bike in 4th gear and turn the rear wheel with my hand.

The goal was to help get the pistons moving after they'd been in storage or whatever.  Sorry I didn't mention that the oil will not help with ignition... my bad! :oops:

First thing: get the excess oil out!   If you didn't have the plugs out when you tried turning-over the engine, do that now.  This will let any extra oil/goo come out the plug holes (and make a mess... put some newspapers under the bike!).  Also, that is a good time to check for a good spark.  

Check the spark:  Leave the plug wires dangling for a minute, with the sparkplugs attached to the ends.  Try to lay the plug wires, so that the sparkplugs are touching the frame or engine.  Try starting the bike, and look for a fat blue spark on each side.  This is best done at night, when it's dark out.   For a better test, you can make a spark tester.

Ditch the battery! Until you have the engine running, I wouldn't bother with the puny GS500 battery.  They sometimes have enough oomph to turn the starter, or to give a nice blue spark, but not to do both at the sime time.   Take out the battery; lay a piece of 2x4 lumber across the frame of the bike, and screw the +12 and Ground terminal wires down to it with sheetrock screws.  Then clamp jumper cables from them onto a car battery.  If the car battery is in a car, leave the car turned-off.  Using a car battery will let you try to start the GS for hours on-end, and will give you a better spark.  Just be sure not to run the starter so long that it overheats.  Let it cool off now and then (like, 30 seconds trying to start, 30 seconds cool-down).

Clean the plugs:
It may be that the plugs are now oil-fouled.  After letting the extra oil spray out the plug holes, put in fresh plugs.  If you're cheap, wash the old plug tips in gasoline to get any oil residue off, then blow dry with compressed air; maybe run some folded sandpaper (400 grit) between the contacts, then regap.   I would undergap the plugs at first: that will make them fire easier, even if there is a little oil fouling happening in the cylinder.  You can fix the gap back to optimal size later.

Gravity-feed the gas.  Until the bike has run, the carb bowls are usually empty.  Also, you may have a vacuum leak.  I'd put the petcock on PRI (gravity feed), while you try to start the bike.  Be sure to change it back to "ON" when you leave the bike unattended, though, or it is possible for the fuel to drain out onto the ground while you're away.

Heat the plugs:  This is one I've never found necessary, but have heard that it can help: heat the electrodes of a sparkplug with a propane torch, until it is too hot to hold; then put it in the engine quickly and try to start.  You can probably only do this with one plug.  But the GS will actually start and run on just one plug, so that's enough to get the engine started.

Give the gasoline some help.
OK, this is an extreme measure.  Many people have used ether, or "starting fluid" to start old engines.  Propane is safer, and is easier on the engine.   I have used a propane torch like this:
.
Just open the valve to let the propane start hissing out, then put the tip of the torch down into the air filter an inch or so.  I wouldn't bother with this, unless the other steps have not gotten the bike to start.

It's possible that any one of these steps could get your GS started.   If you get a good spark, fuel and air, then the !@# thing really should start.

Just some tips on shop work: get a box of latex surgical gloves from the drug store; they keep your hands clean and in one piece.  If I cut myself anyways, I peel off the latex gloves, clean the cut and apply "Liquid Bandage."  That stuff is amazing.  It sterilizes the cut, and holds your skin together, well enough to let you put on another pair of gloves and get back to work! :thumb:

I keep some Liquid Bandage in my motorcycle tankbag, because, well... you can skin a knuckle doing lots of things, and nodoby wants to have to ride home, chafing and bleeding inside their gloves.

Also, when I'm wrenching, I wear a rainproof top with the hood up, which keeps most gas and oil off me.  I wear lab goggles when I'm working with stuff that sprays (fuel hoses, brake bleeding, PB Blaster).

Spark plugs are sparking blue..  I konw that, I've tested..
It could be a vacume leak.. not sure.
Coudl be that there is oil still in the cylinder..  this is most probably.
The battery idea could be good..  I hsould try it..
Someone told me, push come to shove, to spray the carb cleaner into my airbox..  I'm about ot try that tomorrow as well.. I'm still trying to get her started, well, up until she sells or she starts.. whichever one comes first.

Not all carb cleaners will act like starting fluid, most will burn but not enough punch in the mix. If you DO use somthing to give it a kick, use super small amounts, like breath spray ammounts. the engine could cough and then you have burning stuff in your airbox.

I'd use propane before trying Ether ("starting fluid")... and long before tring carb cleaner or WD40.  The problem with ether (or carb cleaner or WD40), is that it starts out as a liquid, then evaporates (which is when it help the bike start), then it dissipates.  So there are a few seconds when there is a mess of flammable liquid (dangerous); and a few seconds when it will help starting; and then after that, it won't help.  So timing is important.  

The propane is simpler: it keeps flowing near the air intake.  It won't flood anything.   You don't have to keep respraying it.  And it isn't as explosive (this is both good and bad... I think it's not quite as effective as ether).  

Earlier this winter, I had parked the bike for a couple of weeks, and after that it wouldn't start.  I tried to start the bike using propane... and it fired right up.  I waited a few seconds, then pulled the propane tank away from the air cleaner... and the engine killed.  It turned-out that the float bowls were empty, and the petcock was ON (I should have used PRI to fill the bowls after leaving it parked!).  It was actually getting no gas.  It seems that I was able to start and run the GS on nothing but propane for about 10 seconds.

The way I caught onto the bike battery problem, was that sometimes I would try to start the bike, and if I held down the starter button, it would chug and chug, but not fire.  Then, finally, I would let go of the starter button, and right at that moment, the bike would fire-up.  This happened again now and then: no firing as long as I held the starter button, but right when I let go of the starter: Vroom!  Since then, I don't bother holding the starter very long; just a couple of seconds, then let go, and see if it starts.

My theory was that while the starter was turning, the spark was weak.  But that right when I let-go of the starter button, on the last compression stroke, there was a strong spark, and the bike fired-up.   When my battery was "iffy", I always had better luck starting the bike from a boat battery (which, lucky for me, sits next to my bike).