This winter lay-over has a few (but only just a few) benefits. One is to focus harder to find answers to those hard to solve motorcycling problems.
One problem I have yet to resolve is how to keep my four-point trailer restraints connected to my beloved GS500. Here's what my rig looks like (at the beach in East Tawas):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/redshift/BikeOnTrailer2.jpg)
Now my problem. I installed Ancra Removable Tie Down Rings:
(http://www.compacc.com/catalogimages/998_6285_large.gif)
These puppies are spring-loaded so they can be removed from their low-profile base (neat idea for flexibility). To remove you compress the spring (press down on the center post, pull up on the metal bracket), and slide the circular ring bottom out of the recessed base.
My straps are hand tightened -- not ratchet type. The hooks are moderately large, and I can get good tension on the front -- not as much tension on the rear due to angle.
I'm finding that if I hit rough road (extremely easy to find in Michigan), I can loose a ring connection at the bed. A bad bounce seems to cause the bike to further compress suspension and loosen, then snap against the hold-down rings. The tie-down hook seems to push against the spring, then auto-slide the ring out of its base. I've had the problem more at the rear, but I've lost the front as well. (Some of the problem is an unfortunate angle of the base at the rear -- it would not be a problem if removal was perpendicular to the direction of pull.)
Seeing a loose strap in the van's rear-view mirror is a source of panic (especially if the front is involved) and paranoia that I've just got to solve. This is where you folks come in.
The options I'm considering:
- MSR Fork Support,used between the upper clamp and the tire to keep fork springs from being compressed during transport:
(http://www.compacc.com/catalogimages/1604_10325_large.gif)
Although the image is one with a dirt bike, I should be able to buy or make such a device to use with the GS500. Benefit is it gives me a brace to reef down hard on and lock the front.
- Move to ratchet-style tie-down straps. This gives me mechanical leverage I can't get by hand. Negative is that I can easily overstress the front fork seals. Positive is this can be applied if the Fork Support option (above) is used.
- (For the RED-GREEN crowd, you'll like this idea.) For less than 10 cents, I can Duct Tape the tie-down rings so they will have a tougher time to come off. Would work for that trip, but sun and weather tends to destroy duct tape quite quickly. No guarantee this would work in all conditions, but you get what you pay for. :)
- For slightly more investment, I can replace the removable Tie-Down Rings for the non-removable version. A little harder to find, I'm sure they're out there.
- Forget tie-down rings entirely and hook onto the trailer frame directly. I've done this in lieu of solving this tie-down ring problem, but I have a harder time strapping the bike down. Relenting to this solution would force me to buy ratchet-style straps.[/list:u]
Got any opinions out there? Vote for one of the above options or please give me another I haven't considered. Like I said, I'm still noodle-ing on this one. Thanks in advance for your thoughts on what I might do.
Roy...
Why not replace the removeable rings with the flush-inset type rings (Flush mounted D rings ) ?
http://www.rallylights.com/M&R/Tie_Down_Hardware.asp
http://www.rallylights.com/M&R/M&R_Images/80138-20.jpg
Another place...:
http://www.wrightparts.com/cgi-bin/wrightparts/store01/perlshop.cgi?ACTION=%5BENTER%5D&thispage=drings.htm&ORDER_ID=!ORDERID!
You should put your kickstand down too three points of contact are better than two.
Jared, thanks for the links to Tie-Down rings. I'll mark you down for Option #4. Check. :thumb:
Quote from: dyranYou should put your kickstand down too three points of contact are better than two.
I've done that, but more by mistake than on purpose. The side-stand has a tendency to rub against the wooden bed, wearing it away. I'm a bit concerned about the stresses caused by bouncing on the side-stand.
Not thinking leaving the side-stand down is a good idea, but appreciate the thought.
Put me down for a combination of 2 and 4 or 5.
Use ratcheting tie downs either directly to the frame, or to some non-removable rings. I would probably opt for some non-removable rings were I in your shoes. Total investment for ratcheting tie-downs and non-removable rings shouldn't be too significant.
i'd consider... eye bolts on the 2x4 base
one they wont pop off
two they will be off the top...therefore not a trip hazard
three the tie straps would be wider apart for better support
four cheap at lowe's
the fork support wont work... unless you first remove your front fender... or are willing to keep your fingers crossed that the fork brace wont bend over the winter.
same for the shock... keeping it collapsed for an extended time will weaken the spring.
do what you have to do, but those are my thoughts
chris<pixelmonkey>:D
Iv heard you should not leave the kickstand down in case you hit a big bump it can pitch it over the right side
and when using ratchet tie downs its easy to get carried away and blow your fork seals (ask my freind about his bandit400)
Tawas is nice
How are those dioxins in midland treating you? Im in mt pleasant which is thankfully upstream of dow
QuoteYou should put your kickstand down too three points of contact are better than two
not a good idea, you could endup bending if not breaking the stand mounts on the frame. some bikes you can even stress out the fram there.
racheting down the bike shouldnt "stress" the seals, your not super compressing the forks at a fast rate like landing from a jump, the oil will flow fast enough through the valving that you wont have that issue. All my mounts are either welded or Through bolted to the frame itself. But thats just me.
So the collective wisdom is pointing to replacing the tie-down rings with the non-removable variety, and pulling harder on the straps. Wider strap angles is also a neat idea, with less effect from trailer & bike movement.
Thanks for the input. Perhaps a unique problem, and I do appreciate the chance to kick around possible solutions. :thumb:
These are the d-ring tie down hooks that I use:
http://pitpal.com/images/products/10064.JPG
I could not find them locally but they can be found online for $7-10 each. Rated at 5000# each. Don't use the d-rings that have a welded strap holding the d-ring down.
I only use Ancra straps. (I have had hooks break on cheap straps before) Not the ratchet type but the pull ones. Very little tension on the suspension, maybe 1" of compression.
Looks like having a light trailer amplifies the problem as it bounces around more.
I use the same type of cam buckle straps. They are cheap and wear out after a few uses but do work pretty well.
I used a simple eye bolt for my attachment points. NEVER had a problem.
You can put down your kickstand but if you don't want it digging in grab a piece of metal to distribute the load. The kick stands are designed to hold up the bike and at least two people sitting on the bike (safety factors and all that stuff that no one but us engineers care about) and unless you're flying along and hit a speed bump the bike should be fine...if the frame gets messed up it's because a) it's already bent or b) it's rusty as shaZam! and you probably shouldn't be riding said bike. Hope this helps, I always use my friends trailer that was custom built to carry bikes, attach ratcheting tie downs to four secure (ie frame) points on your bike and maybe have your tie down rings at 45 degree angle from the ground and off the bike.
An additional thing you might want to look into for your tie down rings is a bolt that you can put a locking nut on and then a pin behind it that should solve the loosening problem
Quoteand at least two people sitting on the bike
cant agree there, ive seen the frame bent and welded tabs break, fact my 650 Maxim is one of those. seen it happen to a Gxsr that was had never Fallen or touched ground other then wheels. seen it happen to an old yam FZ600 86ish.
all the kick/side stand is ment to do, is hold the bike Up and keep it stable, was not DESIGNED to hold more weight then that of the bike and your average accessorys. even then some can go too far. the frame and stand May hold the weight but wasnt designed to do it
one can walk on eggs and not break any, but eggs werent designed with folks walking on them inmind.
leave the stand up once straped, you can put it back down again when your getting ready to unload.
Quote from: RedShiftForget tie-down rings entirely and hook onto the trailer frame directly. I've done this in lieu of solving this tie-down ring problem, but I have a harder time strapping the bike down. Relenting to this solution would force me to buy ratchet-style straps.[/list]
Roy...
This option is what I would do. I have a tailer for boats that has a wooden deck like your trailer, but I always ratchet strap the boats to the metal trailer frame. Wood can fail, but the boats won't leave the trailer frame. Tie it to the strongest point.
Quote from: Stephen072774Quote from: RedShiftForget tie-down rings entirely and hook onto the trailer frame directly. I've done this in lieu of solving this tie-down ring problem, but I have a harder time strapping the bike down. Relenting to this solution would force me to buy ratchet-style straps.[/list]
Roy...
This option is what I would do. I have a tailer for boats that has a wooden deck like your trailer, but I always ratchet strap the boats to the metal trailer frame. Wood can fail, but the boats won't leave the trailer frame. Tie it to the strongest point.
Just to elaborate, the frame is made from 1960's vintage 4" angle iron -- looks like a closing square bracket, i.e. " ] " I reach under and behind the two-by-eights that I have attached to the perimeter, and hook onto the lip. Gives me a wider grip but comes close to consuming the entire strap length.
Not the most elegant but it's the cheapest solution. So far, no strap has let go with that method of connection.
___________________________________
Hey, if I didn't say it before, I love you guys (figuratively of course). Hugs on on the ideas and replies to what has been disturbing my joy when traveling with the family. Trailering the bike for day trips in the summer is a blast -- when the roads get interesting, I unload the bike and the wife (plus daughter) chases me with the mini-van. When she's fed up with driving, I re-load the bike.
Gets us out as a group to explore this fine world and lets me ride. :)
The macninist dude that I know always ties his bikes down at the wheel or the un sprung parts ... typically wheel and swingarm ... he said I should put the straps right over the fork brace ... that way the straps can be very tight and the bike will ride on its suspension ... I never tried it ... cos in a pickup truck ... I've never seen the thing come off once tied up sprung or un sprung ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: dgyverThese are the d-ring tie down hooks that I use:
http://pitpal.com/images/products/10064.JPG
I could not find them locally but they can be found online for $7-10 each. Rated at 5000# each. Don't use the d-rings that have a welded strap holding the d-ring down. ...
I'm warming up to this D-ring hook. The price is right and the change is relatively easy. I'd put a 4" square piece of steel under the deck to reinforce and distribute the load forces.
Quote from: dgyver... I only use Ancra straps. (I have had hooks break on cheap straps before) Not the ratchet type but the pull ones. Very little tension on the suspension, maybe 1" of compression.
Looks like having a light trailer amplifies the problem as it bounces around more.
I have the same straps but I couldn't get comfortable with just marginal suspension compression. Front forks are pulled down 2"-3", with the rear a bit less. I've also noticed that if the straps get wet, they s-t-r-e-t-c-h. Best to get a good grip.
Your last point is probably my biggest problem. I dare say the whole trailer weights less than 200 lbs. No shocks, just leaf springs. Even with a 400 lb bike aboard, it kicks over expansion ridges and other bumps. The bike is very stable laterally; it's the vertical dynamics that cause my problem.
Quote from: Srinath... The macninist dude that I know always ties his bikes down at the wheel or the un sprung parts ... typically wheel and swingarm ... he said I should put the straps right over the fork brace ... that way the straps can be very tight and the bike will ride on its suspension ...
I've seen wheel clamps that would do this well. Cost lots and often not removable. Yeah, I know my baby is worth it, but I was hoping it would not be necessary. I'll play with my rear tie-down method, but I can't see not using the bars as the tie-down point.
Wild...
Quote from: RedShift
I have the same straps but I couldn't get comfortable with just marginal suspension compression. Front forks are pulled down 2"-3", with the rear a bit less. I've also noticed that if the straps get wet, they s-t-r-e-t-c-h. Best to get a good grip.
I have not had the problem of strap stretch. But then I have an enclosed trailer and things don't get wet. You may want to add some chain couplers (or carbiners) in addition to the hooks on the straps. That way if they do get loose the hooks will not come off of the tie-down points.
Quote from: RedShift
Your last point is probably my biggest problem. I dare say the whole trailer weights less than 200 lbs. No shocks, just leaf springs. Even with a 400 lb bike aboard, it kicks over expansion ridges and other bumps. The bike is very stable laterally; it's the vertical dynamics that cause my problem.
I have seen some people add SV shocks (any cheap shock will work) to their trailer to reduce the bounce.
dgyver, I like your thinking. I may just grab onto that chain coupler/carbiner idea.
Adding Shocks, yeah..., requires some welding or the right U-bolts. Good merit but will take more creative work to pull it off.
Thanks for taking an interest in my problem. You Rock. :thumb: