GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

I got some really bad news about my bike this weekend.

Without making myself too sick with the thought, I am facing the need for new piston rings.

Has anybody had this done?  If so, what was the total cost?

Has anybody done it themselves?  If so, is it doable?

You shouldn't have any trouble doing it yourself with a repair manual.

Not to mention rings are cheap as hell.

You wouldn't believe the quote the guy game me at first.  

I think with parts are labor, that maybe $500 is fair. . .

But not more.

I was thinking I could pull it off myself with some help.

Ring sets: $25 x 2
Head gasket: $20
Base gasket: $5
Honing cylinder: $20-40

Since it is your first time it may take about 4 hours, excluding time for someone to hone the cylinders.

The mechanic estimated 8 hours of labor (at only $50/).  

He should be able to do it much faster than that.

Thanks for the info.  If he doesn't get real on that quote, I'll just have my dad help me do it. . .

i did this as an afterthought to splitting my cases and rebuilding the whole motor. Its easy. Just do it.

Oh, so sorry, but I just gotta respond to this. "I don't want to pay you shaZam! for doing a re-ring job on my bike, but I do want it to last a long time." Just one of the reasons I finally closed our shop about 3 years ago. You get what you pay for...hopefully. And 50$/hr., remember man, the guy is not making 50 per. Overhead in a good shop is really high. If you don't want to pay somebody to do it, do it yourself so that the mech can do a good job for somebody else and not have to go on food-stamps to survive. I love the Baby GS500 bike and this great forum.

C......

Thanks for the flame.  

Do you know that his first quote he gave me was around a $1000 to re-ring the engine?  My bike might be worth a $1000.  

Did you know that I am doing some free legal work for these guys?

And I'd rather overpay them and have a shop I can go to that is cheap, friendly and reliable than have them go out of business.  

I asked about it b/c $1000 is high (you better agree) and I am thinking of doing it myself because I think it would give me and my dad some much needed bonding time.

But I appreciate your $.02.

Dude, i hear your pain and i sell cars and experience the same phenomenon. People dont wanna pay, but they want want want...

Problem here is, he doesnt need to pay 500 bucks when he can pay for rings and gaskets and do it himself. Its easy.

Jake, didn't mean to come off as "flaming". Also, I still wouldn't want someone tearing into my motor and re-ringing it in four hours. I mean, it's not like "Monster Garage" and we're going to see who can do it quickest is it? And as far as what is reasonable, I'd think it really depends on the region you live in. What's worth 1k to me might be worth .5k somewhere else. Although 1k does seem a bit steep in this instance. But, then again, consider; the mech has to tear into it, disassemble the pistons from the rods (if you're going to check the pins and the small-end and the piston-pin bores) clean the pistons real well, check side-clearance, back clearance and end-clearance on the rings, check piston to wall clearance, hone the cylinders and re-check piston-wall clearance, clean all the other stuff, check the head for warpage, check valve seating, notify you if there are any problems, take back parts that were wrong or damaged, re-notify you if any other work is needed...eventually get the thing back as good as can be and be able to re-assure you that it will last for a reasonable period of time. I'm not flaming, I'm just saying that I would probably spend at least 8 hours on a job such as that. 'Course, he could just tear it apart, slap a set of rings in, hone the cylinders, slap it back together, take your money and tell you you're good to go. Soooo, if you're mechanically inclined, just go ahead and do it, but if you pay somebody to do it cheap, well, there's a reason lawyers charge, doctors charge, and good engineers make good bucks. Not flamin' just sayin'. I love the Baby GS and the forum.

C.......

That's cool man.  It is hard to understand the tenor of a message when you're just reading something someone wrote.  

To be frank with you, I will probably pay them to do it.  I like these guys and they are the first bike mechanics that haven't treated me like I was some sort of mung off a bathroom floor because I want to ride a motorcycle that I don't have to make payments on.

Hey just a heads up...

I have a ten page thread on here  called Rashad's saga or something.

Riding motorcycles brings poeple together.. but working on them does that too!!!

Rings on the gs are simple. You dont need to go crazy with it. You dont need to check all of that stuff mentioned above. This bike is very simple and as long as your rings arent ancient, the cylinder should be in good shape.

Buy the rings. Buy some beer. Get the needed gaskets. The valve cover gasket is reusable.

Get your dad in there to sit and work with you for a bit. Put on some tunes and go to town.

Get a clymer manual.

Take off the gas tank.

Take off the valve cover.

Do a search and learn the tricks of getting the gs cams back in time.. its easy once you do it right. ALSO when putting it back together, hand turn it slowly to ensure the timing is ok. Dont ask me how i know this...

Take off the head, and cylinder. Pull off the pistons (very simple, couple clips)

Replace rings, repeat.

Put stuff back together. Try not to have anything leftover. If there is anything, rinse and repeat.

INSTANT BONDAGE> and INSTANT POWER! VROOOOOOOOOOM BABY>>>>>>> :thumb:  :cheers:

Thanks Rashad.  Big ups.

If you get into trouble you can always take it to the shop, just let them know what you did and keep everything organized (boxes, cardboard cutouts of engine cases with all the bolts in them.).

QuoteI still wouldn't want someone tearing into my motor and re-ringing it in four hours

depends on how fluent they are in their job and how well they retain specs, and HOW screwed up the engine is.  Are you talking a TOP END REBUILD? or just tossing in a set of rings? Not all heads warp, Not all valves need to be redone,   How was the issue diagnosed? was this comfirmed by another shop known for good work and fair pricing?

ive seen rings just give up, but everything else was well within spec. didnt take long to reset the crosshatch in the barrels and fit new rings having the engine running in 3 hours.  3 years running now and its still puring along.  Rebuilt the lower end of my GS when CB shaft bearings went only took about 2 hours or so to pull engine, teardown, find issue, clean up, fit replacement bearings and CB shaft, torque everything down, mount back in frame.  the bearings were used but within spec.  even had to cut my own gaskets.

Shops overcharge ... like a lot ... and they over guess the time ... by a lot ...
Truth is ... a set of carbs if they are clean ... I can rejet in under 20 mins ...  taking time and paying attention to everything ... Stuck screws and other sheite notwithstanding. Shops charge 3 hours ... Of course yanking carbs off the bike and refitting ... 10 mins out and 15 in ... on the high side.
Valve adjustment ... 30 mins or so, maybe less ... I also sorta do my time calculation differently than shops maybe ... I first drain the tank ... So if that takes 2 mins of me fiddling and 10-15 mins for gravity (I drain through the carbs - good way to take the crap out of bottom of float bowls) i count it as 2 mins ... not 15 ... If they say 8hrs ... you'll do it in 1/4 the time IMHO.
Cool.
Srinath.

Actually what they are wanting to do is take two hours to take the engine out, two hours to tear it down, have the cylinders honed/deglazed, check the valves, etc., have the head milled, pull the pistons off and re-ring them, two hours to re-assemble, two hours to re-install.  If they can do it quicker, they'll come down on their labor.   But that is the most they figure it would take.  

Or they offered to order all the parts I'll likely need and set me up with the machine shop so I can do it myself.

again, unless you have severely overheated the engine, its not likely to have a warped head.

before i rip things apart condemning rings, ill make a few tests, compression test, dry, then wet (adding few squirts of oil) a big diff in readings would show bad rings, then i pull the cams to make sure the valves are 100% closed and put about 90psi of compressed air to the cyl and check to see how well the valves are sealing. unless they are freshly lapped in they will leak a little, and i mean a little. but if you can feel air coming out of an intake or exhaust port then the valves should be pulled and looked at to make sure they're not burnt or bent.

unless the seat is hammered or the valve is collapsed a simple lapping will bring it back with no issues, this will require somone with the Right spring compressor to remove. you can save alot on this by taking a machine shop the head and have them pull the valves for you. wouldnt take long and charges would be way less.

Look the pistons over, and the bores. pull the rings from the pistons, drop them in their holes and see how sloppy they fit using feeler gauge as discribed in book. if not too bad, give the bore a quick hone out and put new rings on, install pistons, gaskets, put the head back on, put the cams in and go.

its a personal choice thing, is this your daily transpo? cant be without it for any length of time? grab another engine drop it in and rebuild this one nice and slow.

I did it on a 4 cylinder honda awhile back, maybe 4 months ago.  $ cycinders is way harder than a twin 360 crank.  Just get a manual and go for it.  Good luck.  By the way Im 17

Update.  

So, I'm doing this (re-ring) myself.  

I got the cylinders off the bike.  The rings on the left were burned up totally.  Left spark plug fouling constantly mystery?  Solved.  

No problem.  Except, the piston is screwed and has been slapping away at the cyclinder.  Cylinder 1, piston 0.   Need new piston.  No problem.  Except that the wrist pin/bearing on that side also screwed.  Nearly frozen up.  We can move it with a hammer, but it takes some effort.  So, you guessed it: I get to split the cases!  I'll need to to get the rod out so I can put a new rod on there (assuming the rod is screwed too, along with the bearing).  

This sucks.  Any good advice?

Dude, if you're going this far with it...I'd just bite the bullet and do a re-build. Hey, look at it this way; now if you want, you can build some compression ratio into the motor, do some head work and maybe get a few more ponies out of the Baby G. Don't you just love it...that little bike and this forum?

C.......

I tried to hang myself, but I'm too tall, so I started thinking. . .

Self, you need new pistons.  Maybe 74 mm pistons?  Probably not.  Depends on the cost of machining.  

Self, you've got the head there?  Make it hot!  Can I clean it up with the Dremel if it isn't warped?  

Self, you've got the carbs there?  Clean them!

So, I guess the question is, aren't I doing a re-build at this point?  

Waiting on parts now. . . I love that fact that the DAMN THING RAN AT ALL for the past couple months, and actually felt pretty fast at times!  I'm bummed that it is needing to be re-built, but that is why I bought it.  But I'm stoked that I know what needs to be done to fix it (read: everything).  

The scary thing is, neither me nor the mechanic detected any knocking or unusual sounds.  Just SMOKE!!!!

how bad are the cyl? and the outside of pistons? if not SCORED BAD and the feeler gauge doesnt say excessive amount of room, might get away with stock rings. slap? sure its not a rod knock or even the CB shaft bearings starting to go?  stock pistons are 73.6mm or some odd number to fit 74mm bores. your next size up would be 74.25 ish? for .5 overbore and 74.8 for like 75mm bore  making it 1.0mm overbore  (working on cheap source of pistons as i found cheap rings already for 75mm)  numbers shouldnt be toooo far off as i was guessing.

The piston and the rod are screwed.  The cyclinder is cool though.  

Ohhhh. . . I thought the stock bore was 70 mm.  Ahhh.  My bad.  

I just want to get it back together and go for a ride.  The sooner the better.

Ummm..ok whos telling you you need rods?! and pistons?! or did you take it all apart?

If your going this far, might as well go all out and get forged pistons, bored etc... and go for performance. :mrgreen:

Quote from: RashadUmmm..ok whos telling you you need rods?! and pistons?! or did you take it all apart?

Read the last post on the first page.

I've got the cylinder off.  It needs a new rod and new piston on the left side.  There is no doubt about that.   The rod is probably okay, but the bearing is screwed, as is the piston.  

I'm not going to get crazy with 78 mm pistons.  I'm already going to spend about $250 for parts, maybe as much as another $100 for machining, depending on whether or not I need to mill the head (haven't really looked at it yet).  

Since I'm probablygetting a new bike this fall, I am just going to put it back stock.  

Set out to clean carbs. . . ended up re-building the entire engine!  I love it!

Quote from: dgyver

Quote from: RashadUmmm..ok whos telling you you need rods?! and pistons?! or did you take it all apart?

Read the last post on the first page.

:oops: oops!

Parts total for re-build:

$330.00.

Having no idea what you're doing:

Priceless.  

I'll keep you guys posted.

Dgyver, the 78mm piston change looks impressive. Do you know if compression heights are the same for the GS piston and the Wiseco piston? Just lovin' the little scooter and this forum...wish it would quit raining awhile so I could play.

C.......

C.....Is this what you are asking about: Piston Pics (http://gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14490)

I was just wondering if the pin c-l to crown deck is the same on both pistons. Will the deck height be the same...with stock rods. Love the Baby GS and this forum.

C.......

think i reconise that 79mm piston.

I think ive got a crank that spun one rod and might have and extra stock piston, ill see if i can get out early tomorrow and dig around.

hey blue, if you don't I have a extra set of pistons with pins but no rods.

Quote from: Blueknytthink i reconise that 79mm piston.

Actually no. Yours is in my motor. That is a third one I found.
Now only to find a fourth....

:o  IT IS! you never told me how it worked out.


Davipu, havent been able to get into my shed as of yet. still trying, been rainin abit down here

Is the compression height the same with the 78mm and the stock pistons, using stock rods? Still wondering if the deck height will be the same. Love the little bike and  :kiss:  to this forum.

C......

Well, looks like several people are interested in fitting higher compression pistons in their Baby. I still wonder if the compression height is the same and is dome configuration such that no machining is required. In simple terms, which pistons will bump compression with no machining (other than boring). Love the Baby G and this forum.

C.......

No additional machining is required, just the cylinder bore. Using stock rods is fine. All the larger pistons in the pic link in my previous post can be installed with just a cylinder bore.