Help, my 2003 GS500 (20,000 miles though) is becoming difficult to start.
Tonight all I got were clicks when I pressed the starter button. I was about to give up when on the third attempt it started!
Is this an electrical connection, ignition coil or some other problem?
I bought a new battery last week in case it was that, but it isn't.
Under the seat where there are lots of wires it is pretty gungy as I ride it through a British winter, not good for it really. Could there be a dodgy connection?
Only time I've ever gotten clicks was with a dead battery.
Did you charge your new battery before installing it? Most new batteries require that you charge them before being used...
trey
Quote from: treybradDid you charge your new battery before installing it? Most new batteries require that you charge them before being used...
Yep, yep!
The new battery was charged and was able to start the bike following the clicks. So what happened was:
1) Tried starting -clicks
2) Tried again - clicks (i have seen this before with a dodgy battery btw)
3) Thought "I'm in trouble" - tried again a minute later and it started after a couple of clicks. But it started like there was no problem, like something had been suddenly switched on.
I suspect there is something wrong electrically but I think the battery is fine (and I suspect the old battery is fine as well).
Just wondered if anyone had seen something similar.
Condensation is more likely to happen if the wires are dirty and grungy. Could be a temporary "wet"-to-ground shortage. Cleaning and running a paper towel down each wire (don't run the dirt into the connectors) may help. Expecially, if the wires are old and are cracking; by cleaning you may find the source of this 'temporary' short.
Do you mean the clicks occur while holding down the start button continuously? If so, is the bike turning over while clicking?
Perhaps something like, "click" turn "click click" turn "click click" turn START?
The most pronounced click is probably the starter relay. Assuming all the safety features are satisfied (either intentionally or bypassed), the relay could be dropping out due to a dodgy start switch or associated wire and/or connector.
Another possibility is arced up (aka burned up) starter relay contacts. The relay will energize but the connection is too resistive to allow sufficient current to get to the starter motor and allow turning of the same.
Do you have either a Haynes or Clymer manual?
How experienced are you with electrical test equipment and reading wiring diagrams?
It started with no problem this morning.!!
When the starter button was pressed there was a series of clicks but the engine did not turn over. When it did start it was a complete surprise, that is it was immediate without any strain.
I am mostly useless at mechanics, but I do have a Clymer and a multimeter. This morning the battery was showing 12.27v and at about 5000rpm it was showing about 14.5.
Which wires should I clean btw, is it obvious?
Thanks for the help.
The Clymer manual is not the best choice for electrical issues for the budding GS mechanic/owner. The reason is that the drawing is not colored like the Haynes. Here (http://www.bbburma.net/Scans/Haynes_WiringDiagram_US_90-96.jpg) is a link to a Haynes US GS schematic. The UK version will be very similar and perhaps even identical in respect to the starter circuit. The color on the drawing is keyed to the colors of the wires.
Another GStwinner, John Bates, has contributed a simplified starter schematic that is very similar to the Suzuki service manual simplified schematic. Once again it is for the US model.Here (http://home.earthlink.net/~jwb1938/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/gs500estartckt120res.jpg) is that schematic.
It certainly sounds like an intermittent connection in the system could be the culprit. Always suspect things that move around first, such as the handlebar. There are many connections running off the handlebar into the headlight assembly. The can for the headlight doubles as a junction box for many connectors.
The real problem is that you may not know the entire history of this bike. My project GS was the victim of abuse and poor care (but it is getting better :) ).
I have had the bike since new (nearly 2 years but 20,000 miles) so any neglect is all mine. Starting to look a bit rusty now, it is regularly serviced and washed, honest.
It does start still but not without drama, a few clicks and looking unhappy then suddenly starts. Almost like it is overcoming some sort of resistance first before the electricity flows.
Where are these wires located that should be cleaned and checked for good connections? Thanks for the links to the wiring diagrams - not sure I know what to do with them though!!
I guess I should get it fixed soon before it fails to start at all!
Not to wish trouble on you, but a complete failure is much easier to diagnose than what you are now dealing with. :lol:
To top it all off, I did not notice that your GS is a 2003! No such animal in the USA! It did return to "the colonies" in 2004. The schematic links I pointed you to are not applicable when it comes to your ignition circuitry and tachometer. Neither the Haynes or the Clymer manuals have been updated to 2003+ bikes. Beside the plastics, 2003+ saw a new ignition computer based control with electric tach. A link is available, somewhere here on this board, to the 2004 schematic, but it would apply to the US version. I will locate it later.
Are you pulling in the clutch when this problem happens? If so, the clutch switch is a known culprit for problems. Your model has push on lugs to the switch assembly. You could pull them both off and jumper them as a test when this problem appears again.
To answer your question directly, no one plug could be chosen to clean with an intermittant problem like this. Inspection of each connector in the dirtiest area is the best course. You could try a spray contact cleaner on the dirtiest plugs, BUT BE CAUTIONED THAT SOME CLEANERS ATTACK PLASTIC.
I will never forget a coworker that wanted to "fix" an intermittant keyboard for a CT scanner. He said he had a contact cleaner he was going to try and I cautioned him about the plastic. By the time I walked to where he was, the entire section of the keyboard around the dodgy key was frozen stiff! Total destruction due to chemically melted plastic.
I was shocked and amused simultaneously. The customer was only shocked and had issue with the loss of the system for the rest of the day.
You may have a bad section in your starter. Does it start sometimes on the first try? If thats the case the commutator is probably positioned in a good spot that allows current flow at that time. Once a starter motor starts turning it will continue to do so even if it has a bad section. The problem occurs when it stops at the bad section. Usually some jarring will cause the commutator to turn slightly allowing current to flow through a good section. This may explain why your bike suddenly starts without any hesitation.
Just a thought.
Actually I bought the bike in April 2003 but everything for it was dated Dec 2002. The dealer had kept it that longin the showroom.
Thanks for the help, the clutch switch would cause no turn-over at all if it was faulty ??
That starter motor solution sounds sensible, is there a simple way to isolate it?
The easiest way to tell is if the starter won't turn over, give it a couple of taps with a hammer (or otherwise blunt object) and try again. If you can get it to start this way there is likely a bad spot in the starter. To confirm this you would have to take the starter motor apart and test the commutator bar for continuity.
Quote from: bluel39Thanks for the help, the clutch switch would cause no turn-over at all if it was faulty ??
If the clutch switch were making poor contact and intermittant, it
could cause the clicking you are experiencing and no turnover -- at all. The switch is in series with the starter relay coil.
The starter motor idea just introduced is plausible. I would think the brushes in the starter motor are more prone to failure than the armature, but again you have an
intermittant problem.
You really have no choice but visual inspection for the connectors and circuitry involved until it becomes worse. There is a procedure in either manual for checking the starter motor.
What you see in my avatar is a destroyed starter motor. That is what happens when a GS is moving along over 40 mph and the starter clutch siezes onto the crankshaft. The starter motor experiences a "Max RPM exceeded" event. The end result was a siezed up engine and my purchase of the bike for $416 on ebay. :) You can view my thread on this project
here.
I had this problem when I bought my bike. I bought it last year and it was a 94 with 6000 miles on it. What had happened was the starting solonoid didnt have a nut holding on the negative wire. So check the wires. The solonoid is on the right of the bike next to the battery.
Not having a nut on the starter solenoid (relay) definitely constitutes an intermittent connection!
I second the motion to check for loose wires. Just today my bike wouldn't light up or anything after being run for 30 minutes. The problem was traced to a slightly loose battery cable.
Derek
Mine was doing it again today and in fact also as yours was, a loose battery cable. Loose wires are a pain.
Quote from: starwalt........................... The UK version will be very similar and perhaps even identical in respect to the starter circuit. ..................
I think
tdan553527 has a copy of the UK version. :cheers:
It was the starter solenoid that was the problem.
I lived with it for a number of weeks but I realised the bike was still under warrantly so I took it into the garage for repair.
The problem seemed to stem from corrosion of the connections - riding through a British winter (with lots of salt on the roads) does the bike no good at all.
Does anyone know the best way to stop this happening again in 2 years time?
Thanks for all the advice btw.
Quote from: bluel39.....................
Does anyone know the best way to stop this happening again in 2 years time?
Thanks for all the advice btw.
Use
dielectric grease to protect the connections.
:cheers: