Ok...so today I get my tire replaced as I had a big 'ol nail stuck in the rear tire. This being the third nail in the last three months. I took it to this shop I go to as a last resort not 'cause their service sucks but bexause they are kinda pricey inservice but they always seem to have what I need wheneveryone else doesn't. Anyway in changing the tire the mech. Told me I need a new chain and sprocket soon. (He bike only has about 4500 miles on it. ,ow considering wear and tear is this possible or am I doing something wrong in my riding...?
Not being familiar with Ducatis, I'd call bullsht, and look at the chain and sprockets myself. First, can you see a space between the sprocket and chain when you pull the chain straight back, away from directly behind the sprocket? If yes, you either need to adjust chain slack, or change your chain and sprockets.
Then compare your c/s (countershaft) sprocket (that's the front sprocket), to one of the one's pictured in an owner's or shop manual, or I think Kerry has a picture of a what a worn sprocket looks like (goes to search...)
Here it is: http://www.gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15773&highlight=sprocket+worn
Isn't it interesting that whenever a mechanic is supposed to do something simple like change a tire they always find a reason to do more pricey work while the tire is off? This is a typical mechanic scam. He gets paid per hour, but not real hours. Changing a tire is a one hour job and will cost you an hour's labor even if it only actually takes 30 minutes (or two hours for that matter). Changing a chain and sprocket is two hours labor even if it takes only one hour. So, here is what he does:
changing tire- 1 hour labor
changing chain and sprocket- 2 hours labor
Total charge- 3 hours labor
Actual time
changing tire- 1 hour
changing chain and sprocket- 1 additional hour because he already took the tire and chain halfway off to change the tire
actual total hours- 2 hours
amount you are ripped off- 1 hour labor rate
I'd say that the mechanic is just trying to get a wind fall anytime he says something will need to be done "soon." Soon could be another five or ten thousand miles or even never. At any rate, changing a tire can be kind of tough because of the tools and leverage issues, but changing a chain or sprocket is way easier and you should be able to do it yourself.
There is no way you are going to need the sprocket with that kind of mileage. Rear sprockets last a long time. Most people change them when it is not needed. I have almost 19.000 miles on my rear sprocket and it looks like new.
In over 300k miles of riding on 6 different bikes, I have never changed a rear sprocket. Never needed it. This included 80k miles on a CB750K, 98k miles on a CM400A, and 80K miles so far on my 97 GS500E.
I replace the o-ring chains on the GS500s about every 18-20k miles and put on a front sprocket each time, they are worn and need replaced every chain or two. Rear is not.
ok a quick trip to the soap box, in defence of mechanics, mechanics work by the hour, not by the job. shops charge by the job figuring rates by man-hours required. unless it is a one man show you can't go by actual hours of labor.
it is all part of the labor law crap, that the govt requires, now if a mechanic notices that something is worn, out of tune, missing, whatever. it is his duty to report that to the shop foreman, and he then will make the decision to call you to see if you want to replace the worn parts, for them it is a liability insurance issue, if a bike goes out of the shop and they worked on it then they are responsible for it in the insurance man's eyes. so they are just covering thier own ass, and trying to make a buck.
That is not what my friend who works for the honda dealership says. your reasoning also wouldn't explain how a dealership can charge me for 4 hours labor, yet I can come in after two hours and pick it up. Perhaps laws are different in oregon, but in chicago and california dealerships charge you for the four hour job regardless of how fast it is actually finished. I am not saying this happens for all mechanics, but certainly dealerships. Individual mechanics have their own system of charging. I know that some charge less or charge only for actual work in order to steal customers from the dealerships.
Now, I happen to think that if a mechanic is able to finish a job fast he should be rewarded by effectively getting paid more per hour. Otherwise there would be little incentive to work fast. However, what I detest is when dealerships try and get you to have things done while the mechanic has your vehicle taken apart just to get that hour or two windfall, even when these thing won't need to be changed for a long, long time and it won't save the customer any money or trouble. Instead, it ends up costing the customer more because unnecessary work is being done.
Also, I can't truly blame mechanics at these dealerships. They are pressured by the customer service guy who gets a commission, usually, and the service manager will change the words of the mechanic to make more money ("looks worn" becomes" needs changing"). If you were to speak directly to the mechanic you would likely get a much truer answer.
I love you guys..!!! well you know what i mean. Thanks for the constant good advice. Scratch...gonna check the chain as you advised just in case. Thanx again you guys...!!! :cheers: :cheers:
Quote from: conflicttheoristIsn't it interesting that whenever a mechanic is supposed to do something simple like change a tire they always find a reason to do more pricey work while the tire is off? This is a typical mechanic scam. He gets paid per hour, but not real hours. Changing a tire is a one hour job and will cost you an hour's labor even if it only actually takes 30 minutes (or two hours for that matter). Changing a chain and sprocket is two hours labor even if it takes only one hour. So, here is what he does:
changing tire- 1 hour labor
changing chain and sprocket- 2 hours labor
Total charge- 3 hours labor
Actual time
changing tire- 1 hour
changing chain and sprocket- 1 additional hour because he already took the tire and chain halfway off to change the tire
actual total hours- 2 hours
amount you are ripped off- 1 hour labor rate
I'd say that the mechanic is just trying to get a wind fall anytime he says something will need to be done "soon." Soon could be another five or ten thousand miles or even never. At any rate, changing a tire can be kind of tough because of the tools and leverage issues, but changing a chain or sprocket is way easier and you should be able to do it yourself.
Actually, mechanics get paid "flat rate" which means there is a set time limit that the job pays, and you get paid that amount, irregardless of how fast or slow you get it done. This keeps the good mechanics making money, and the crappy ones looking elsewhere for a career. (edit) also, the service writers are supposed to subtract any 'combination labor' that applies. i.e. your tire is already off, the sprocket and chain labor should be reduced by a bit. If they aren't doing that, then hate the sales guy, he writes the tickets.
We are also Required(in most shops)to tell you about other things we run across that may need repair(Unless you specifically request no other inspections). Maybe some guys out there get overzealous, or get hungry. Myself, any advise I give you about your vehicle is just that... advise. Fix it, don't fix it, I could care less. At least you know about it now.
It annoy's the living Sh*t out me to hear people complain about mechanics informing them of problems or potential problems on their vehicle, cause I know that these are the same people that would Buddha Loves You up a storm if I
didn't tell them about a potential problem, and then they had a breakdown. So basically I'm screwed either way with those types.
To sum it up, don't shoot the messenger.
Cummuterguy... :cheers: ...you told it like it is. I wish everybody who talks crap about mechs would have to pull a year in a busy shop earning flat-rate. It's a hard hard job that doesn't pay anywhere near what it's worth. I've had Doctors complain about paying 40/hr when they were charging 100/hr. I told them people have basically been the same for hundreds of years...vehicles change every year. Love the GS500, this forum and the hard-working techs.
C.......
Hey guys don't wanna start any disputes here :nono: :nono: . It just bothered me that not even 3 weeks ago i had new brakes put in by the dealership that sold me the bike and gave the bike a look and offered up no problems. In fact when they installed a new intrument cluster which was under warranty i paid nothing...so i offered the mech. a tip because i appreciated his work and he politely and firmly refused it. # weeks later i have some guy changing my tire and telling me that i need a new chain and sprocket and that i need it soon. That just doesn't sit well with me. I basically commute..rarely push the bike over 7k rpm, and generally follow up on routine maintenance. I want to ride a bike that's safe first and foremost. But i can't afford to be dishing out the big bucks like i have a limitless supply. But even so...safety first. Once again thanx for all the input folks.. :thumb:
No disputes, it's OK. But if a tech tells you the vehicle is in need of some part or service you can always ask for an explanation as to why. "If the sprockets and chain need replacing could you please show me or explain to me what parameter is out of spec?" Love the little GS and this forum.
C.......
Okay, it is really the middleman that needs to be shot. That's what I am saying. I don't get a discount because the tire is already off. My friend, who is a mechanic at honda, gets just over 40k per year (because he works fast). However, the dealership charges 95$ per hour. Where does that money go? I know it isn't him trying to rip people off- he gets squat regardless. He's told me many a time- it is that damn customer service rep who gets commissions and can make a killing off of ill informed customers. Now, I'd trust my car to my friend anytime and I do. But something fishy happens when you insert the middleman, whether it is at a ripoff chain like midas or at the dealer.
Huh. I replied first ... I thought. But now I see that I didn't reply at all. Must have been a hiccup in the force or something.
Anyway, my unsubmitted post mostly gave links to the same two scans that scratch sent you to, along with this one (http://www.bbburma.net/Scans/Haynes_DriveChainWearCheck.jpg).
I also mentioned that my original D.I.D. X-ring chain (with 520VM stamped on the sideplates) lasted about 18,000 miles and that my replacement D.I.D. O-ring chain (520V) has been on for about 16,000 miles. And that after 34,000 miles I'm still using my original rear sprocket. But gsJack will always have me beat on that score. :o
I had to replace my chain at about 9K, But I did not really take care of it. You should lub it every 600 miles or so. I do it about once a week now. also you should keep the right amout of slack on the chain.
Hey, Ker, you DID reply...for some reason a lot of Jugger's threads are having "double vision" :lol: . Maybe he's accidentally popping the submit button twice. Love the little GS and the forum.
C........
Hey ya know what happened..?? These double posts have come out when i post from my Blackberry. FYI...this post originated from my Blackberry while i was at the White Horse Tavern...established 1880 in lower Manhattan...on a beautiful spring day whilst imbibing a couple of Sam Adams... :cheers: :cheers: