I've had a couple of helmets in the $100 range (Vega, HJC, Simpson), but the RF-1000 that I shelled ~$350 out for was definitely the nicest, in terms of lightness, aerodynamics, and fit. I didn't like how easily the visor fogged, but a $13 Fog City addition took care of that.
I have heard a lot of good things about the Scorpion helmets, and as my Shoei has taken a beating in daily use (I'm not nearly as anal as I should be about helmet care), I went to the cycle store to give the Scorpions a shot.
They come in two flavors - a polycarbonate EXO-400 ($139), and a fiberglass/kevlar EXO-700 ($199). I couldn't tell the difference, in fit or lightness. I got an EXO-400. Once nice thing about the Scorpions; the garish paint jobs cost the same as the solid colors.
My impressions of Scorpion vs. Shoei:
-Fit. The Scorpion fits great. That's an individual thing, of course. But it's a little more snug than the Shoei; a bit much when I first put it on, but after 10 minutes, the helmet and my head got to like each other. The strap has a nice snap closure to keep the free end from banging around; much better than the Shoei.
-Weight. It's light. It doesn't feel any heavier than the Shoei.
-Aerodynamics. At least as good as the Shoei. Nice and smooth.
-Ventilation. Much better than the Shoei. I have all vents on full with the Shoei; with the Scorpion, I close a few on cool mornings.
-Fog. It's much better than the stock Shoei, worse than the Shoei + Fog City. But I only get it to fog when I'm not moving. When the bike is going, it's all good.
-Visor release. Better than most, but I still have yet to find a quick-release for a visor that's truly quick or easy. But I don't swap them out daily, so no biggie.
All in all, it's a lot of hemlet for $140. It'd be a decent deal at a higher price than that. I highly recommend it!
"Warhawk yellow" with mirror visor.
(http://www.roadstergal.info/6_5_05/7114.jpg)
My rf-1000 has the extra clip to keep the strap from flapping around.
I have a clip on my Shoei, too, but it's not as easy to operate with gloved hands as the snap. Or ungloved hands, for that matter. ;)
MSRP on the solids should be around $20 less than graphics, at least it was on my -700. When it comes in I'll post to this thread with a quick review.
You're right, I just looked - on the 700s, graphics cost $20 more. At Seattle Cycle (as here (http://store.azmusa.com/scor.html)), they were selling the 400s for $139 regardless of paint (except for the solid red, which was $129?).
Very cool! I'll have to check them out when I look for one (my first) :cheers:
Me and the shoei and the store parts manager got into a fist fight over the shoei vs Scorpion thing ... shoei and arai for years have peddled the theory that fiberglass helmets are better and kevlar is too hard and composite isn't right either ... balh blah blah ... then couple years ago they start making the 3 fiber mix, Kevlar, organic and composite ... and say that is the best ... so when every one was using composite and kevlar (WTH is organic ... my BR 16 was composite+kevlar) evidently fiberglass is better, but they use composite and kevlar and its the best now ... OK ... and scorpion comes along and they start using the same thing ... its composite, organic and kevlar ... Just FWIW ... scorpion 700 is about 4 oz heavier then the RF 1000. Not that you'd ever feel that ... unless of course Shoei is sponsoring your years house payments ... In any case ... $200 and extremely nice helmet ...
Cool.
Srinath.
nice lid :thumb:
s'ok, i'll stick with my shoei :lol:
Is it quiet? i have this vega that is insanely loud...i'm going to go deaf if i dont' get a new helmet.
:lol:
I used to have a Vega Daytona... both of these helmets were an improvement over it in almost every way. I noticed weight more than noise, but there is some decrease. But with any helmet I've tried, you're going to need earplugs if noise is getting to you.
i think the vega is a bit too large for my head( i got it with the bike purchase). Over a certain amount of speed the wind noise is insanely loud. It begins to whisltle and howl like the devil; the wind comes in from the buttom of the back of the helmet. If i hunch my shoulders and my jacket covers the rear buttom of it the whistleing totally dies out.
The problem is when i wear earplugs i can't hear the engine noise and i really want to hear how the bike sounds...call me old fashioned but i want to hear the bike running when i'm on it.
New helmet time for sure. :lol: :)
Peace.
btw.
I did find a Shoei rf-1000 online for 359.00 It is some special version with "special graphics" I think other places have it for cheaper..but if the scorpion is a better helmet..i'm down
Quote from: Roadstergal"Warhawk yellow" with mirror visor.
DAMN YOU!! That's MY helmet! And that's the Visor I want! :guns: :guns:
No... I really like mine too... Lucky me, it was the only thing that fit my head... and nearly the cheapest thing in the store.
But! If we ever get a Seattle ride together, you'll have to wear a different helmet... Since I have no spare. :nana:
yep i like it , my hjc is geting old so the scorp is on my list for must have's. thanks for the info.
OK, one more test. I did the last track day in the Scorpion. I did this one in the RF-1000. Never again... it just plain doesn't fit me as well as the Scorpion, and once you get into speeds above 100, it gets a shake that the Scorpion doesn't. And the little wing-thing on the base of the back bumps the hump on my leathers, which makes it difficult to look up and through a turn like 3a at PR. And as I've said, the venting isn't as good. So, no more Shoei for me.
Yea one more shoei hater ... yea ...
POS those are ... totally over rated, and every one entirely seems to be all Angelina Jolie over it ... and I am like you morons ever not buy anythign off the infomercials on TV ... wake up and lick the fiberglass clowns ... poly carbonate is a better material ... and all I ever hear is how this guy crashed and rammed his head into a mail box or post office or whatever ... and he had a headache for 2 days and then was great ... I am like OK you need to repeat that with this helmet on ... maybe you'll have a headache for 1 day instead of 2 ... BTW that vent on top in the shoei ... noisy as hell and does nothing except lift it ... it needs a exhaust vent ... its got 2 intakes and no exhaust ... yea right morons :thumb: ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Yeah, I was shopping and I had to choose between a Scorpion (~$140) and an Arai ($400+). I couldn't tell the difference, so I bought the Scorpion. I'm quite happy with it. They make a nice helm for a good price, but they really should sell a $400 version for those who prefer to spend more money.
You couldn't tell between the $400 arai and the $140 Scorpion ... :lol: I could, the Arai felt plasticky and tacky and had these funky vinyl crap here and there and felt like my head was wrapped in a 70's vinyl sofa fold out wiht the thing folded closed with my head in it ... :lol:
Cool.
Srinath.
It's still a lot a fit question. ;) The Shoei fit a lot better than my old Vega. But at speed, and under more G force than I'm used to on the street, the fit on the Scorpion is better for my fat head.
For you, the cheeks are too pushed in on the Shoei - for me, it's the opposite. The cheeks and just underneath are a lot snugger on the Scorpion, so it doesn't feel like the helmet is being held in place by only the chin strap on the bottom.
Oddly ... inspite of crushing my cheeks, the shoei still moved around ... especially at speed. Anyway I am going back to Bieffe I think ... the new GPR yea ... I was just comparing the scorpion to arai, scorpion also didn't fit me at all ... but not 1/100th as bad as the arai. In comparison shoei was better than both. Bieffe is the best IMHO for my head type and preference for location of discomfort ...
Cool.
Srinath.
I've tried Shoei, Scorpion, Arai; hell, damn near any helmet in the motorcycle shops around here I've tried on. None of them fit me as well as the Shoei. It's all a personal comfort thing, Srinath, no need to get agressive over them not fitting you :lol:. The Shoei RF-1000 does have an exhaust vent in the back, though. It's in the spoiler thingy.
When I was picking out helmets, the gear guy actually recommended the Scorpion over the $400+ counterparts. He said that it had essentially all the same features, performed better, and was 1/3 the price. I just assumed that he got better margins on the Scorpions, but since then I've heard a lot of ++'s for the Scorpions. In reality it seems like more like 'brand inflation'...the Scorpions just can't command the same $$ as Shoei or Arai, even with a comperable product. I ended up with the Warhawk Blue EXO-400, and it's quite comfortable.
In case anyone is unaware: the Scorpions come in 2 shell sizes, one for the Large, XL, and XXL models and another for the XS, S, and M models. The difference is in the replacable pads (used to size the helmet down). The shop I was at just bought a few of each shell size and a bunch of pads so that they had "all sizes" on hand. Ironically, they didn't have the one I wanted....they gave me a loaner for a couple of days so I could get the bike home until my lid came in.
Quote"Warhawk yellow" with mirror visor.
Another note: I understand only the clear and smoke visors have the magic "anti-fogging" mojo...not the mirrored visors...you mention that yours only fogs up when you're not moving (mine does too with the clear visor)...has this continued to be your experience?
Quote from: AlphaFire X5I've tried Shoei, Scorpion, Arai; hell, damn near any helmet in the motorcycle shops around here I've tried on. None of them fit me as well as the Shoei. It's all a personal comfort thing, Srinath, no need to get agressive over them not fitting you :lol:. The Shoei RF-1000 does have an exhaust vent in the back, though. It's in the spoiler thingy.
Yea even I'd say that its 1/2 true ... cos arai and scorpion crushed my cheeks even more :x ... as well as the arai as I was putting it on, the plasticky cheek thing came loose and gouged me below my right eye ... :x ...
OK great I need to buy the latest and greatest from shoei to get the exhaust venting that is standard on every one's $150 lid.
Anyway ... The shoei and the Bieffe GPR as well as my old BR16 are nearly the same material and I will bet react very similarly under impact etc ... and the GPR was clearanced at $80, my BR 16 cost me $100 in 2000 and my next helmet will be a polycarbonate item, not fiber glass/composite. PC is better (also called Lexan under some makes). I just gots me the helmet of me dreams ... Bieffe GPR in some super ghey ass paint scheme ... yea baby ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Ahh, it's true that Shoei's are expensive, but I've never paid retail for one. Hell, I got my RF-1000 (Blue Storm) for $240.
I've never paid retail for a helmet either, and I do not buy a cheap crap helmet either, I have only bought helmets that are as good as or better than Shoei's and the priciest one has been the $100 BR16. $240 might as well be retail, since you can buy a near identical (in spite of what the shoei shills may say) Scorpion for $200. If you went with polycarbonates whihc motorcyclist says are better :o ... the retail of the good ones drops to $100 or less ... their Z1R that basically won the comparison was $89.99. So shoei may claim the retail is $450 and may sell it for $240 in a 50% off sale ... but we dont believe that crap ... anyway How dumb am I gonna look riding down the street with a $500 lid and a $400 bike :lol: :lol: :lol: ... Sorta like $4000 spinner wheels I seen some brotha's put on a 1973 Ford granada.
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: BadgerAnother note: I understand only the clear and smoke visors have the magic "anti-fogging" mojo...not the mirrored visors...you mention that yours only fogs up when you're not moving (mine does too with the clear visor)...has this continued to be your experience?
Yep, indeedy. The difference between the mirror and the standard only becomes noticeable on humid days (i.e. when it's raining) - the mirrored will fog up unless I'm going at a decent pace, and the clear one just won't.
When I did my helmet shopping 9 months ago, those Scorpion helmets weren't around or weren't in stock at the time. I must have been there for an hour with the sales guy. Tried on at least 15 different helmets. When the time came to pick one, I went with the Shoei Rf-1000. It just fit right and had all the features I was looking for.
That Scorpion is a damn nice helmet for the price. I was looking into getting a second one anyways for friends, girls, and whatnot. I'm definitely looking the Scorpion way now.
Not surre if anyone is interested, but here are some things I did when I raced Go-Karts to battle a foggy visor. One thing I did was rub some shaving cream on the inside of the visor. When I finished rubbing it in good I would get a clean rag and rub/buff it off. Kinda like waxing a car or bike. It worked pretty good. There were 2 drawbacks. It smelled like shaving cream and I had to do this every race night. Another thing I did was add more ventilation. I drilled about 10 holes evenly spaced along the bottom edge of the visor. About 1/4"or so from the bottom. Being that low they were not distracting to my vision in a race. The holes were only 1/16" so they did not let so much air in that it bothered the eyes. When I first heard of this trick I was not sure I wanted to try it. I raced on dirt tracks and figured I would just get a face full of dirt. It didn't seem to happen though. I only did it to my clear visor. I left my my mirrored lens alone because I only used it in the day and it never fogged on me.
There was my input.
If you ahve a broken visor or something identical to the visor on the helmet, you can cut a piece and glue it on the outside of the thing with 2 sided tape along the edge ... for good measure put some rain x type thing on both the surfaces in the middle ... that will never let it fog ... the same trick snomobile helmets use ... In fact some bike helmets are available as sno helmets with this as an option ... HJC has some I believe.
Cool.
Srinath.
My trick in cars was dish soap. Take dish soap, apply with a dry cloth to the inside of a clean visor (or windshield). Then buff it out with another clean, dry cloth. The surfactant left behind will prevent droplets from forming, so no fog.
Even that wouldn't keep my Shoei fog-free, though. I got a Fog City shield, and for $13, no fog, period.
QuoteOne thing I did was rub some shaving cream on the inside of the visor.
I suspect this works because it cleans off the minute layer of greasy film that forms on almost everything, yielding a very smooth surface that moisture vapor finds it difficult to condense on. Shaving cream has somewhat bizzare properties as a cleaning agent...I recall a lot of people I knew when I was in the military used to use it to get old polish of their combat boots (although I never tried the technique). Make sure it's an aerosol/non-gel shaving cream, though...I understand that it makes a difference.
I just ordered the HJC cs12 http://www.hjchelmets.com/cs12_look.htm# I wanted another Soumy, but it didn't make sense to spend as much on a helmet as I did on the bike. Any good or bad things about the HJC?
The 'loaner' that the shop gave me to get my bike home while I waited for my helmet to come in was an HJC. The first thing that I noticed when I rode around with the new helmet was that the wind wasn't nearly as disruptive when I turned my head. It seemed that whenever I'd head check wearing the HJC, my head would get pushed hard to the side...I figured it was to be expected until I got the Scorpion, which seems to flow much better in the wind. YMMV.
Damn, I'm kinda hoping that for 80$ I won't be too disappointed. After all, my last helmet was 600.
Quote from: fat_sacI just ordered the HJC cs12 http://www.hjchelmets.com/cs12_look.htm# I wanted another Soumy, but it didn't make sense to spend as much on a helmet as I did on the bike. Any good or bad things about the HJC?
Poly carbonate is the best for a helmet ... not only do they transmit less energy to your head, they also can be used after casual drops and or light crashes. Refer to this aritcle ...
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/hatz/Poly carbonates are typically cooked up ina giant vat or sorta, and injection moulded into the helmet mould. Making it for a quick and dirty manufacturing cycle, giberglass or other composites are hand laid, then resined etc, then cooked in a vacuum oven. More than 5-10 times the labor. Its hence costs more. However just cos its harder to do doesn't make it better. I was partial to Poly or lexan helmets to about 2000, then I got swayed by the composite is better crap, bought a bieffe, then gave it away this year and started using the POS shoei I got from someone as part of a bike deal. Now back to Poly/lexan. Wooo hooo life is good when you know what you want ... makes it less distracting and less complicated doesn't it. HJC probably is much better than the POS shoei I am wearing, and to think I might have paid like $300 for it ... makes me sick ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: seshadri_srinath
Poly carbonate is the best for a helmet ... not only do they transmit less energy to your head, they also can be used after casual drops and or light crashes.
I guarantee you that no one racing at a world class level is using a polycarbonate helmet. Saturday, in MotoGP, Marcos Melandri crashed and had a footpeg go through his armored boot. A plastic helmet lined with styrofoam wouldn't fare any better I wouldn't think. :roll:
Cool. I've heard good things about the Exo.
I'm new to riding, but insofar my HJC AC-11 Zeek (paid $100) has been nothing short of amazing. Its got great ventilation, super high quality padding (some removable), superb graphics and finish, and it is fairly quiet. The only thing I don't like about it is the visor action. Its sorta hard to get the visor to come up, and it isnt smooth like a Scorpion.
All in all, I think you'd have to be crazy or ridiculously rich to waste the extra $200-400 for a Shoei or an Arai. That article "Blowing the Lid off Helmets" or whatever it was called also showed that there aren't any major differences between the brands in terms of protection either.
I had big problems with the science in that article. If I have some time in the next year, :P , I'll write them up.
Quote from: GisserQuote from: seshadri_srinath
Poly carbonate is the best for a helmet ... not only do they transmit less energy to your head, they also can be used after casual drops and or light crashes.
I guarantee you that no one racing at a world class level is using a polycarbonate helmet. Saturday, in MotoGP, Marcos Melandri crashed and had a footpeg go through his armored boot. A plastic helmet lined with styrofoam wouldn't fare any better I wouldn't think. :roll:
Yea not plastic - polycarbonate will stop a .22 bullet. Just cos it can be heated and moulded like plastic doesn't mean it is plastic. Poly carbonate is also called Lexan and trademarked/patented by GE. It will in under an 1/8th thick sheet stop a .22. Oakley glasses are made from these. Marco Melandri's boot wasn't made from poly carbonate ... so its not an apt comparison. How would you know what each rider wears. they custom make the things for each rider. They could very well pack it with an extra inch of expanded Polystyrene and paint the helmet with their logo and sell replica's of those ... Bieffe claimed Biaggi wore the BR16, and I bought that helmet, guess what ... that helmet weighs a ton, and the same year shoei and arai and HJC and everythign else weighed 1/2 as much ... I am betting Biaggi has never seen the damn BR16 ... That article is only 1/2 the full story, november issue of Motorcyclist has the second 1/2. I have had poly carbonate sheets and various bits and pieces, its in destructible. if we made poly carbonate body work for the bikes ... we'll almost never need replacement panels ... if we covered the gas tank with a tight poly carbonate layer ~1/8 thick we'll never need replacement tanks except in the rarest of cases ... Custom fit helmets are going to be better no matter what, off the shelf we want one that is closest to the custom fit ones. I believe Poly carbonate has the right failure mode (elastic) to make it the perfect material for a helmet, face sheilds and sun glasses. BTW even Shoei uses a polycarbonate face sheild ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: seshadri_srinathpolycarbonate will stop a .22 bullet.
Sorta...
3 mm polycarb will
most likely stop a standard .22 bullet fired from over 3 meters.
1.5 mm polycarb won't stop a knife.
Mythbusters covered it in Episode 16: : Ancient Death Ray, Skunk Cleaning, What Is Bulletproof?
Any thickness polycarb will crack when in contact with acetone.
OK so what's your point ... Helmets are over 1/8th or 3mm thick right ... And Acetone will also weaken and delaminate fiberglass ???
Cool.
Srinath.
I have a solid black EXO-700. It fits great (maybe a little loose; I was sized between medium and large and went with large) the noise isn't too bad, and is very comfortable.
I have a large too... When I got it, it was so friggen' tight that I started getting headaches from puting it on and taking it off...
Now that it packed out, it fits great! :thumb: No more headaches! :lol:
Well I have the Exo-700 and I wore for about 4-5 hours on Sunday. It didn't feel bad, but I had a huge red line across my big ole forehead. Do you guys experience the same thing or is it just this helmet and my head not matching up properly? I didn't do a very good job on picking out my first helmet. :)
But I don't get headaches, so I'm guessing I'm not too far off.
Quote from: seshadri_srinathOK so what's your point ...
Not
really bulletproof. :thumb: That was my point... Even with a .22... You still only have a chance... Not a gaurentee...
Quote from: leoI had a huge red line across my big ole forehead.
That
might mean it isn't fitting right... But, if it doesn't hurt you... :dunno:
Quote from: RVertigoQuote from: leoI had a huge red line across my big ole forehead.
That might mean it isn't fitting right... But, if it doesn't hurt you... :dunno:
yea kinda what i thought too. well i guess there is some slight discomfort, but nothing that has me heading to the store to fix.
I don't think it's fair to strikly compare the helmet materials.....the manufacturing process and the research that goes into figuring out the best one should count for something too.........we spend ovber a year trying to get a decint part out of china after we give them detailed drawings and process description, but the lack of "know-how" prevents them from building anything passable in teh first 5 tries or so.....thats why I paid 300 bucks for myu Z-II, i just don't feel like copies are as good as the original....( i hope noone is going to argue that shoie, arai and suomi are not premier brands in helmets)
Quote from: RVertigoQuote from: seshadri_srinathOK so what's your point ...
Not really bulletproof. :thumb: That was my point... Even with a .22... You still only have a chance... Not a gaurentee...
What ... OK what sorta neighborhood are you riding through ... :lol: ... you see many 22's on you commute ??? I mentioned it just to say polycarbonate isn't plastic to the guy that said it was ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: SlavikI don't think it's fair to strikly compare the helmet materials.....the manufacturing process and the research that goes into figuring out the best one should count for something too.........we spend ovber a year trying to get a decint part out of china after we give them detailed drawings and process description, but the lack of "know-how" prevents them from building anything passable in teh first 5 tries or so.....thats why I paid 300 bucks for myu Z-II, i just don't feel like copies are as good as the original....( i hope noone is going to argue that shoie, arai and suomi are not premier brands in helmets)
They are not ... They are brands that spread misinformation, and they have been milking the ignorance of the customer for decades. They may have started out as the first helmet manufacturers (even though I believe it was Simpson or Bell or someone else that pre dated them) and they grew into a microsoft in the helmet world ... using market position and advertising to spread misinformation. Technology has evolved, Polycarbonate is better, and we have much better choices than the crap they stick to as the best. Also remember they insisted Fiberglass was the best 10 years or so ago when many others (bieffe and Bell in particular) had gone to mix of Aramid, fiberglass and kevlar ... and what did shoei do ~3-4 years ago ... go to a tri fiber mix of Kevlar, aramid, and fiberglass. So how was fiber glass superior to the tri fiber mix in 1994 and suddenly in 2001 the tri fiber mix was superior. They are at best waaaaay behind the trends/research and at worst lying to push their crap at trumped up $$$ ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Quotei hope noone is going to argue that shoie, arai and suomi are not premier brands in helmets
Being a "premier brand" doesn't guarantee a superior product. Obviously the brands you mention are excellent helmets, and all offer excellent protection, ventiation, aerodynamics, etc., and are of very high quality. But I also think no one is going to argue that the brand name adds significantly to the $$. Other products can't command that same price point because they don't have the same brand recognition...even if they are comperable products.
Marginally-related anecdote follows:
Back in college, a friend of mine got the lastest whiz-bang HP scientific calculator...a couple hundred dollars worth of programmable, polynomial graphing, nerdly bliss. He was very proud of his new acquisition, and went to show it off to the professor after class. The prof. was completely unimpressed, and pulled out his own $40 graphing calculator. "Let's see who's works better," he said and wrote out a fairly complicated problem on the blackboard. They both programmed the calculations into their respective devices (which took about the same amount of time), and on the count of three they were going to see which got the job done better.
"One...two...three!" They both pressed the "go" button, and the professor immediately and unexpectedly threw his $40 calculator across the room (sidearm frisbee-style...good form). It smacked into the wall smartly and fell on a shelf. "Let's see you do that with yours," he said, grinning. My buddy looked down at his $300 pride-and-joy in terror.
"Which one is better now?" the prof. said triumphantly.
It wasn't necessary to check the results.
Moral: Features are more important than Brand (unless you are in marketing).
Being that I work in at a motorcycle accessories store called Iron Pony in the helmet section, I can surely tell you that the KBC and HJC helmets have been called junk by many customers. Although I have crash tested my CL-14 and it did great; but when I was allowed to test a few floor model Arai's, one AGV, and the Shoei RF-1000 and X-Eleven I can surely say that these helmets are much better in every aspect. Whether it be weight, noise levels, vision, comfort, cooling, etc they were far superior to any HJC, KBC, Vega :roll: , or other lower priced helmets that I have ever worn.
Not to stir up any problems here, but this is just my personal experience and I stand behind it 100%.
-BigTwin-
Yup ... totally related ... :lol: ... BTW we are buying cheap ass bikes aren't we (I mean comparable parameters dont compare your 2005 GS to someone's 1981 xs 650 - yea ... ) So I dont think we are really the target market for either shoei or arai ... we are more sensible than the rest of the clowns out there ... BTW though ... the more $$ the bike, the cheap crappier the helmet ... so I dunno who the shoei target is ... Probably the ones that have sport bikes and to look raciest they have to have the helmets that are painted like their favorite racer ... BTW next year they change paint patters, or makes or even bike makes and your old sheite last year crap is worth less ... or atleast worth faaar less ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: seshadri_srinathI mentioned it just to say polycarbonate isn't plastic to the guy that said it was ...
It's just a common misconception... That's all... I used to work with the stuff and people were always telling that it can stop a bullet... Then I'd show them a standard thickness polycarb lens and poke a hole right through it.
Real bulletproof glass is layered... And about an inch thick... Even that stuff has a protective maximum.
That's all I was saying. :P
Quotebut when I was allowed to test a few floor model Arai's, one AGV, and the Shoei RF-1000 and X-Eleven I can surely say that these helmets are much better in every aspect.
No doubt...like I said, these helmets are obviously of exceptional quality. I'm not trying to dig at Shoei or Arai, I'm just saying that the name alone doesn't make it the best--there may be others out there that provide similar features...and may even fit people better (I've heard a few people who -really- want a Shoei, but apparently don't have a Shoei-shaped head).
But those are fine helmets, nonetheless.
Quote from: BigTwinBeing that I work in at a motorcycle accessories store called Iron Pony in the helmet section, I can surely tell you that the KBC and HJC helmets have been called junk by many customers. Although I have crash tested my CL-14 and it did great; but when I was allowed to test a few floor model Arai's, one AGV, and the Shoei RF-1000 and X-Eleven I can surely say that these helmets are much better in every aspect. Whether it be weight, noise levels, vision, comfort, cooling, etc they were far superior to any HJC, KBC, Vega :roll: , or other lower priced helmets that I have ever worn.
Not to stir up any problems here, but this is just my personal experience and I stand behind it 100%.
-BigTwin-
OK you are sorta comparing old world vs new world ... KBC vega and many more are distinctly new players in the market, while HJC has been around a while its engineered to a price point ... back when the old world helmets were still available in the US shoei and arai were right about on par with bell, simpson and Bieffe. Relatively speaking AGV is new as well into that group though not as new as KBC etc ... My wife had her pick of helmets back in the day, her choice was a bell, mine was bieffe just cos Shoei felt like my head was in a vice ... I took her to cycle gear and told her any one you pic ... and we went to 3 places before buying that helmet at I believe Hayward honda, yamaha, suzuki. I wonder what she'd pick now if I let her try it now. In the old days (95-99) they had like 10 makes on the shelves at cycle gear, and those were too all types and price ranges, now its down to 2 or 3.
Cool.
Srinath.
Some brands fit people, some don't. Shoei fits me perfectly, Arai doesn't. HJC doesn't. KBC doesn't. Vega doesn't. Scorpion doesn't. Bieffe doesn't. The list goes on. Shoei's might be expensive, but I'm willing to pay $260 for the best level of comfort. Had a Scorpion fit me as well, I would have got that instead. Thing is, it didn't.
Quote from: AlphaFire X5Some brands fit people, some don't.
Ed-Zakly!
I got a Scorpion 'cause it fit my head and I could get it on and off with little discomfort.
I tried a few that just didn't fit... A few that fit, but were nearly impossible to get on and off... Then I tried the Scorpion. Fit perfectly... So, that's the one I bought.
Good thing the $500 ones didn't fit me. :lol:
OK that fit dealio was the case a few years ago, various brands all fit and felt different ... now every one feels just like the damn shoei I have. OK Scorpion was tighter in the cheeks, KBC VR1 was a bit looser but around my head they all were the same ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Well, I have an ill-shaped head... So... The helmet fit was pretty damn extreme for me. :dunno:
Some of them were tight on the top of my head, but I could fit both hands around my cheeks... :dunno:
Quote from: seshadri_srinathI mentioned it just to say polycarbonate isn't plastic to the guy that said it was ...
Of course, polycarbonate
is a plastic. Don't take my word for it, the
Motorcyclist article (Re:
Blowing the Lid Off) that informs your current thinking defined polycarbonate as a
thermoplastic. Last time I heard someone claim Lexan(tm) was bulletproof was in a TV stalker movie where a "security consultant" fired blanks at these miracle window panes in a devious plot to swindle a gullible Shannen Doherty out of her life savings paying for phony security upgrades. :roll: American GI helmets, OTOH, are constructed of Kevlar. But, your point is well taken, the onus is on the MC helmet companies to prove that laminated shell construction offers an advantage. :?
Quote from: GisserOf course, polycarbonate is a plastic.
Saying something is plastic is just like saying something is metal, or that something is ceramic. Mercury is a metal, but I'm not going to make a piston out of it (lead wouldn't work out so well either). The heat tiles on the Space Shuttle are ceramic, but not the same stuff used to make your coffee mug.
The term 'plastic' describes the mollecular structure of a material. Various plastics have vastly different properties. Some are stretchy, some are brittle, some are adhesive, some are transparent, some are heat resistant, and some (in the proper application) are bulletproof. You know what they make fighter plane canopies of? Right...plastic. Not the same stuff your Sit & Spin was made out of, though. ;) I don't think the Sit & Spin was engineered to react a specific way when hit with a 20mm depleted uranium shell.
Quote from: GisserAmerican GI helmets, OTOH, are constructed of Kevlar.
GI kevlars have almost nothing in common with motorcycle helmets (other than the fact that you wear them on your head), and are not DOT approved for street use. What I remember about my kevlar was that it was thick, heavy, uncomfortable, yielded fierce helmet-hair from the webbing, and always pushed down over my eyes when I was wearing my pack and firing from a prone position. Bullet proof? Sure. (although I never tested it). Good for motorcycle riding...I would say no. Not to dwell on the point...but you know what Kevlar is? Right...plastic. :)
OK. So I interested in a new helmet. And the Scorpion looks like a good deal.
Now where do I find one?
Quote from: dbarileOK. So I interested in a new helmet. And the Scorpion looks like a good deal.
Now where do I find one?
Good observation ... The EXO 400 will work plenty, as will Z1R or Icon or Fulmer ... fit and your preference of colors/graphics ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: dbarileOK. So I interested in a new helmet. And the Scorpion looks like a good deal.
Now where do I find one?
Not to state the obvious, but have you tried:
http://www.scorpionusa.com/wheretobuy.html
Yes, I've looked there.
The price locally is not bad but they don't carry yellow and I'm a little leary about a special order. Of course it does allow you the opportunity to at least try different sizes.
I special ordered mine...
When it finally came in, I wore it around the store to make sure it fit like the other larges I tried on.
Quote from: dbarileYes, I've looked there.
The price locally is not bad but they don't carry yellow and I'm a little leary about a special order. Of course it does allow you the opportunity to at least try different sizes.
Try:
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/department.aspx?department=101&manufacturer=574&Division=1or ebay--preferably the former.
Quote from: dbarileYes, I've looked there.
The price locally is not bad but they don't carry yellow and I'm a little leary about a special order. Of course it does allow you the opportunity to at least try different sizes.
The Scorpion only comes in 2 shell sizes...the other sizes are achieved by the replacable pads (to size the helmet down). If you special order and it doesn't fit right, get different pads (the shop may be able to swap them out for you right there) and voila!
Oh...the two shell sizes are: one for L and XL and another for XS, S, and M. So you may have a problem if you get a L and need an M, or vice versa. I've had mine for about 2 weeks now and the pads (which were quite snug) are now fitting very well. Take this into account when you try it on.
Quote from: BadgerI've had mine for about 2 weeks now and the pads (which were quite snug) are now fitting very well. Take this into account when you try it on.
+1
Mine fits better now than it did when I bought it... It was a little on the tight side.
Every helmet I've tried has broken in over 2-10 hours. HJC AC-11 large hurt my cheeks when I tried it on, but it now fits perfectly.
I bought a Scorpion EXO-400 Saturday and it fits great. But has anyone found a good way to stop the wind up through the bottom front of the helmet? I read on another site the chin deflector doesn't do much good, so before I bought that and found out for myself it doesn't help, I wanted to see if anyone has a better solution. Stuffing a rag up in there sounds preferable to that whoosh right up into my eyes.
http://www.accwhse.com/noj.htm#Quietriders
This is probably the best all around version:
$39.95 NOJ Quiet Rider Deluxe Shield Black
:cheers:
Did you close the chin vent?
Yes, I closed the chin vent. My balaclava doesn't stop the blast, either. The only way I was able to stop the wind blast up through the bottom was to put my hand under my chin and block the opening. I don't have this problem with my Shoei RF1000. Comparing the two, it looks like the Scorpion is a little more pointed at the chin and the Shoei more rounded. I'm sure there are other aerodynamic reasons.
It might be a size thing, too. Ryan complained about that, but I don't have a problem with it; mine is an XS, and the shell is visibly smaller than his.
The Shoei is a large, and the reason I got the Scorpion is because the Shoei is too big, even with the 41mm cheek pads. The Scorpion is a medium. Live and learn; maybe the wind blast up my face will be nice in the summer. Otherwise, it's a comfortable helmet.
The chin thing helped with the wind blast... It's only $8... Or you can make your own.
Here's the thread I had on it: Scorpion's Aero Skirt (The Chin Thingy) (http://www.gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20786)
There are some other ideas in there too... :thumb:
To follow up, my new Zero Gravity sport touring windscreen http://gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18873&start=20 cut way down on the air coming up through the front of the helmet. It's hardly noticeable now.