Title: Just thinking
Post by: chinox22x on June 06, 2005, 08:03:01 AM
Post by: chinox22x on June 06, 2005, 08:03:01 AM
If Jesus did not die a gruesome death, torture, ridicule, crucifixion....lets say he died in a quick manner, such as a beheading or being shot...where would christianity be? would it even exist? Remember that the Bible states, "Jesus suffered for our sins"
what if ....he didn't suffer? then what?
what if ....he didn't suffer? then what?
Title: Just thinking
Post by: Roadstergal on June 06, 2005, 08:58:27 AM
Post by: Roadstergal on June 06, 2005, 08:58:27 AM
http://207.70.82.73/pages/descriptions/05/290.html
It's not up yet - this past weekend's show. Give it a day.
It's not up yet - this past weekend's show. Give it a day.
Title: Re: Just thinking
Post by: JetSwing on June 06, 2005, 09:19:56 AM
Post by: JetSwing on June 06, 2005, 09:19:56 AM
Quote from: chinox22xIf Jesus did not die a gruesome death, torture, ridicule, crucifixion....lets say he died in a quick manner, such as a beheading or being shot...where would christianity be? would it even exist? Remember that the Bible states, "Jesus suffered for our sins"are you a christian?
what if ....he didn't suffer? then what?
Title: Re: Just thinking
Post by: chinox22x on June 06, 2005, 09:23:35 AM
Post by: chinox22x on June 06, 2005, 09:23:35 AM
Quote from: JetSwingQuote from: chinox22xIf Jesus did not die a gruesome death, torture, ridicule, crucifixion....lets say he died in a quick manner, such as a beheading or being shot...where would christianity be? would it even exist? Remember that the Bible states, "Jesus suffered for our sins"are you a chistian?
what if ....he didn't suffer? then what?
yes i'm a christian
but it doesn't prevent me from thinking freely
Title: Just thinking
Post by: weaselnoze on June 06, 2005, 10:03:55 AM
Post by: weaselnoze on June 06, 2005, 10:03:55 AM
i dont really know how to respond to that question but too many times people think of the what-ifs. dont get me wrong, its ok to think what-if but whats done is done. thats the way it happened like it or not. some people might argue that it was God's plan and that there is no different. i would have to agree to that. also i dont think christianity is all about how jesus died. his teachings are way more powerful than the method of death.
Title: Just thinking
Post by: john on June 06, 2005, 10:10:57 AM
Post by: john on June 06, 2005, 10:10:57 AM
(http://www.cbr1100xx.org/temp/funny/fish_tiny_hand.jpg)
Title: Just thinking
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2005, 10:38:13 AM
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2005, 10:38:13 AM
Should I jump in?
Title: Just thinking
Post by: oppy00 on June 06, 2005, 11:02:14 AM
Post by: oppy00 on June 06, 2005, 11:02:14 AM
The real basis for Christianity is not how Jesus died, but that he died AND rose again. I don't have time right now to really delve into a theological debate, but if you talk to some HIGHLY educated theologians (not weekend warriors, and not close-minded idiots) they will tell you that the sinless life, death, and Resurrection is why Jesus is worshipped. The hows are details, and the whys are the whys.
An interesting question is "If Jesus were beheaded would people wear Headsman Axes around their necks, and would there be chopping blocks behind the alters in churches?".
An interesting question is "If Jesus were beheaded would people wear Headsman Axes around their necks, and would there be chopping blocks behind the alters in churches?".
Title: Just thinking
Post by: Roadstergal on June 06, 2005, 11:12:21 AM
Post by: Roadstergal on June 06, 2005, 11:12:21 AM
Quote from: oppy00they will tell you that the sinless life
I dunno about that. He got pretty snitty sometimes.
Title: Just thinking
Post by: chinox22x on June 06, 2005, 11:19:36 AM
Post by: chinox22x on June 06, 2005, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: oppy00The real basis for Christianity is not how Jesus died, but that he died AND rose again. I don't have time right now to really delve into a theological debate, but if you talk to some HIGHLY educated theologians (not weekend warriors, and not close-minded idiots) they will tell you that the sinless life, death, and Resurrection is why Jesus is worshipped. The hows are details, and the whys are the whys.
An interesting question is "If Jesus were beheaded would people wear Headsman Axes around their necks, and would there be chopping blocks behind the alters in churches?".
well, according to the bible, not sure which book, a person should not succumb to anger as it is the devil's influence to do so.
i recall an incident where Jesus himself got upset at vendors at "God's church" ....therefore he himself has sinned?
If his suffering and death is not the main focus in christianity...why do priests often sermon about it and remind people constantly that Jesus "suffered and died" for our sins?
Title: Just thinking
Post by: Stephen072774 on June 06, 2005, 11:26:50 AM
Post by: Stephen072774 on June 06, 2005, 11:26:50 AM
As 'the wages of sin is death' says we are all sinners that deserve death. Jesus freely gave his perfect life to pay our sin debt.
They didn't kill Jesus, he gave his life :thumb:
They didn't kill Jesus, he gave his life :thumb:
Title: Just thinking
Post by: Roadstergal on June 06, 2005, 12:06:48 PM
Post by: Roadstergal on June 06, 2005, 12:06:48 PM
Quote from: chinox22xi recall an incident where Jesus himself got upset at vendors at "God's church" ....therefore he himself has sinned?
Or killing a fig tree because it didn't happen to have any figs for him at the time.
Title: Just thinking
Post by: RVertigo on June 06, 2005, 12:11:43 PM
Post by: RVertigo on June 06, 2005, 12:11:43 PM
Hey Chino... Do you hang out here (http://forum.protestwarrior.com/viewforum.php?f=10&sid=ebac5b43852e59e5df19a8f3423ea1aa)?
Title: Just thinking
Post by: SuZuki10 on June 06, 2005, 12:29:35 PM
Post by: SuZuki10 on June 06, 2005, 12:29:35 PM
Quote from: joerockerShould I jump in?
NO! lol
Title: Just thinking
Post by: chinox22x on June 06, 2005, 12:41:08 PM
Post by: chinox22x on June 06, 2005, 12:41:08 PM
Quote from: RVertigoHey Chino... Do you hang out here?
never seen it before till now....i'm gonna read some of their posts.
Title: Just thinking
Post by: Roadstergal on June 06, 2005, 12:55:56 PM
Post by: Roadstergal on June 06, 2005, 12:55:56 PM
(http://www.northernsun.com/images/thumb/1089GodlessSeal.jpg) (http://www.northernsun.com/cgi-bin/ns/1089.html)
Title: Just thinking
Post by: RVertigo on June 06, 2005, 01:01:52 PM
Post by: RVertigo on June 06, 2005, 01:01:52 PM
Quote from: Roadstergal:lol:
Title: Just thinking
Post by: RVertigo on June 06, 2005, 01:02:53 PM
Post by: RVertigo on June 06, 2005, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: chinox22xSometimes you can have a nice discussion... The rest of the time they're just A-holes.Quote from: RVertigoHey Chino... Do you hang out here?
never seen it before till now....i'm gonna read some of their posts.
Title: Just thinking
Post by: oppy00 on June 06, 2005, 08:52:40 PM
Post by: oppy00 on June 06, 2005, 08:52:40 PM
I've got class early tomorrow, and big test Thursday, so I'm not going into a great deal of detail.
The anger thing first. It was the Temple in Jerusalem. The vendors were inside a holy place and therefore were desecrating what God decreed as Holy. There is such a thing as righteous anger, as Jesus displayed here. There are many verses that deal with anger, both good and bad.
Now the tree. Jesus cursed the tree causing it to not be able to bear fruit for X number of years (forgot the exact number of years, but I believe it was 3). Jesus didn't kill the tree. That is a very interesting story. Maybe, cause I don't really understand it.
Now the Sinless life. A great deal of people who claim to be christians don't believe Jesus lived a perfect life. An even larger number of people believe Jesus was simply a prophet or a 'good' man. Ultimately it comes down to the intangible, Faith. Faith is believing what can't be proven. The reason a lot of priests/preachers/pastors focus on the suffering and death of Christ is because it is important, and in my opinion they are trying to 'guilt' people into believing. I'm a bit cynical on this matter, because I was in training to be a man of the cloth at one point of my life. I experienced the corruption in religion, and I HATE it. That's a tangent, though.
Now I'm going on to my soap box. :) First of all I try very hard to not judge others, this includes being aware of others feelings on uber-sensitive issues like religion, and politics. If I piss you off you're not gonna listen to my side, and we're not going to get anywhere.
Second, a creative person can make any religious document, especially the Bible, say whatever they want by omitting certain things, and taking things out of context. Hey if you exclude the word "not" from the Ten Commandments you can have a lot more fun with your neighbor's wife. I know I'm as guilty as the next guy for focusing on one or two verses and missing what the entire passage was getting at.
Jesus said what was most important. First, love God above all else. Second, love your neighbor as you love yourself. On the second part he spoke in detail about helping the helpless.
Finally, don't take my word on all of this. Look it up yourself. Oh, and I would recommend reading other religious documents, see how there is a reoccurring theme of the second greatest commandment according to Jesus. Even in the Quran.
Quote from: RoadstergalQuote from: chinox22xi recall an incident where Jesus himself got upset at vendors at "God's church" ....therefore he himself has sinned?
Or killing a fig tree because it didn't happen to have any figs for him at the time.
The anger thing first. It was the Temple in Jerusalem. The vendors were inside a holy place and therefore were desecrating what God decreed as Holy. There is such a thing as righteous anger, as Jesus displayed here. There are many verses that deal with anger, both good and bad.
Now the tree. Jesus cursed the tree causing it to not be able to bear fruit for X number of years (forgot the exact number of years, but I believe it was 3). Jesus didn't kill the tree. That is a very interesting story. Maybe, cause I don't really understand it.
Now the Sinless life. A great deal of people who claim to be christians don't believe Jesus lived a perfect life. An even larger number of people believe Jesus was simply a prophet or a 'good' man. Ultimately it comes down to the intangible, Faith. Faith is believing what can't be proven. The reason a lot of priests/preachers/pastors focus on the suffering and death of Christ is because it is important, and in my opinion they are trying to 'guilt' people into believing. I'm a bit cynical on this matter, because I was in training to be a man of the cloth at one point of my life. I experienced the corruption in religion, and I HATE it. That's a tangent, though.
Now I'm going on to my soap box. :) First of all I try very hard to not judge others, this includes being aware of others feelings on uber-sensitive issues like religion, and politics. If I piss you off you're not gonna listen to my side, and we're not going to get anywhere.
Second, a creative person can make any religious document, especially the Bible, say whatever they want by omitting certain things, and taking things out of context. Hey if you exclude the word "not" from the Ten Commandments you can have a lot more fun with your neighbor's wife. I know I'm as guilty as the next guy for focusing on one or two verses and missing what the entire passage was getting at.
Jesus said what was most important. First, love God above all else. Second, love your neighbor as you love yourself. On the second part he spoke in detail about helping the helpless.
Finally, don't take my word on all of this. Look it up yourself. Oh, and I would recommend reading other religious documents, see how there is a reoccurring theme of the second greatest commandment according to Jesus. Even in the Quran.
Title: Just thinking
Post by: yamahonkawazuki on June 07, 2005, 12:21:03 PM
Post by: yamahonkawazuki on June 07, 2005, 12:21:03 PM
Quote from: Stephen072774As 'the wages of sin is death' says we are all sinners that deserve death. Jesus freely gave his perfect life to pay our sin debt..
They didn't kill Jesus, he gave his life :thumb:
"NUFF said :thumb:
Title: Just thinking
Post by: 97gs500e on June 18, 2005, 03:10:36 AM
Post by: 97gs500e on June 18, 2005, 03:10:36 AM
I found all the answers here:
http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=112
:thumb:
http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=112
:thumb: