Damn, what's up with Muslims. Is that ALL they can do to express themselves? They bomb everything and everybody. America, Iraq, Iran, Israel, Russia, Georgia, Spain, Indonesia, Phillipines, you name it, they've probably set off a bomb there.
Don't they have ANY regard for life?
What's WRONG with these people?
Why do they do it?
coz they think they're in a war :roll:
you can't seriously think that you can understand them...you have to understand that we're from a totally different world. if you really want to understand why they do what they do, you have to become one.
so i'm declaring that anyone who makes any judgemental comments on this subject is ignorant.
and joerocker, it's not ALL muslims that loves to bomb everyone...
could we put this in the tard farm please
JetSwing, seriously think about it. The majority of these bombs are taking the lives of innocent people. Damn right they are going to get judged. I don't care who they are, what their beliefs are, they do NOT have the right to kill innocent human beings. What if one of those bombs killed your family? I bet you would have some judgements then... :roll:
going out on a limb here, didnt they say the same about the christians during the crusades? or the Inquisition all in the name of God? hell i might have my history all fubared, if so, tell me and ill let it be.
yes, bombs kill people, innocent or not. remember the oklahoma bombing? killed alot of innocent people. and when our military drop bombs, you don't think innocent people gets killed in the process?
and who's to says it's ok to bomb "bad" people? who's to decide who's bad and who's good? to them "we" are the enemy, aka the bad people. i'm not saying they're right...just to reply to your comments...weapons are designed to kill people. that's their purpose. war affects alot of innocent people. there's no way around that.
if i would have died from a bombing...i probably should not have been there or it was something i couldn't have avoided.
Blueknyt, you are right about the crusades and such, and JetSwing I agree with you that there can be no true judgement, having muslim friends, one being your best friend, really makes you understand the turnaround america has taken. For my own experience, I was raised basically to hate america, at least their army anyways. My moms village was burned down by american troops as she put it and my fathers oldest sister was killed in a bombing run (vietnam war) so they have a huge bias in bad people, good people in the world. Me however, I don't have a huge bias towards any form of people and really do suggest a person experience firsthand a peoples culture or religion before commenting harshly or at all on it.
also to anyone who may think my parents were from the north(communist), both lived in rural villages and my father was a fisherman, he made the newspaper in san francisco for fleeing vietnam in a small boat and arriving there to flee the war :lol:
JetSwing - I didn't say who was good or is bad. I was just saying the extremists often target (and even the soldiers unintentionally) people not involved in the war.
The way I see it, when a soldier goes to war he ACCEPTS the fact he could die. When you are in a FIGHT, you EXPECT you could lose. But it wrong and cowardly to fly a plane into a building of civilians. It is wrong to put a car bomb under a random car in a crowded city street. It would be wrong to walk up to someone and punch them in the face.
Soldiers should attack soldiers, and fighters should attack fighters. If they have a problem with the country, they should attack the military bases if anything. Not the civilians. That is where the line should be drawn.
That's all I am saying.
Quote from: joerockerDamn, what's up with Muslims.
you forgot to ask "what's up" with the Irish Republican Army, anti-abortion groups and many, many other fanatical groups of people who use bombings to make a point. The simplest explanation is that bombs are cheap, easy to develop and deploy, and that their effects are dramatic. The question of why these terrorists are so willing (as opposed to other radical groups) to employ suicide bombings is more interesting.
Also, maybe "what's up with
extremist Muslim
terrorists" would be a more relevant question, and also one less likely to sound purely xenophobic (or intentionally incendiary).
Joe's original question,.....Joe I don't in all honesty think you can really cast an entire faith or racial group in the role of "bombers". I know from my own personal experience that I came to harbour a deep hatred of the Irish because of bombings, I lived in a small community where eleven people were killed and a lot had injuries; I know of two who were still being treated 18 months later. When things affect you, your family, friends and community it is very easy to come to extreme positions.
I probably held those views for 25 years until it slowly dawned on me that most of the victims of Irish terrorism, from both sides, were themselves Irish and that there were alternative views of all types. There was, and is, a genuine will to stop the killing and solve the problems. This may have been brought about by people simply getting sick of the killing and the various interest groups realising that they were never going to get an outright win, the answer was the politics of the possible and compromise.
Once people stepped back from violence and took a deep breath a lot becomes possible and the hatred subsides, mine did, I now realise just how unreasonable I was - of course the Irish are not all murderous bombers. Most of them have the same aspirations, hopes and fears as you and I Joe. Just like a lot of those Moslems. I can see exactly where you are coming from because I've been there but this situation needs the good and honorable people on both sides to be allowed to work towards reconcilliation. I have lost my feeling of hate and I am liberated by the change.
That does not mean that criminals should be allowed to run loose and be hugged etc, of course any nation must protect itself using robust measures where and when it needs to. It has to be kept in perspective. This is not war in the state-on-state sense, it may be war in the war-on-crime sense. The bombers are criminals, to elevate them to any other status glamorises them, hunt them down and deal with them with the full majesty of the law or shoot them down resisting like you would bank-robbers or burgulars.
We also have to ask why? and so do they, are there real grievances? etc and can they reasonably be addressed? To go back to the UK / Irish thing, every time the UK government took strong - some would say draconian - measures, that acted as recruiting officers for the terrorists and every time the terrorist commited an outrage they hardened the will of the goverments concerned, simply it got nobody anywhere. Do the moslem communities have a real grievance? Well, the Arabs have. We've been here before Joe, it's PALESTINE. How would you feel if the UN came along and gave your particular state to some other group?????? It was a very well-meaning gesture but the road to Hell is paved with good intent, never was that proverb more true than this instance.
You cannot hate an entire faith or race, you don't have to love them, that is your business but you and your nation are better than that, when you realise that, so might they.
But what you and many others FAIL to understand is that almost ALL of the REAL Muslims (not the wanna-be, "fake" ones, living in the west) want us gone. A REAL Muslim could NOT live in the land of the infidels unless planning to kill/convert them.
I DO have personal experience with Islam and TRUE Muslims. It/they are NOT kind to outsiders.
You are handed so much CRAP telling you how peaceful Islam is. It's all BS. When will you people get your head out of the sand and look around with your OWN eyes. STOP believing everything you're being told.
Islams mission is for all the world to be Muslim. Period, end of story. Yes, there ARE different sects of Islam, some not as radical, but they are the "Islam wimps" and not accepted by the majority.
Before ANY of you can comment YOU need to go to an Islamic country. You all make these arguments defending these people and you've never even been there. You have NO CLUE what life is like there. Yet you scream at me telling me I'm wrong. BUT I HAVE been there. I KNOW what it's like.
Dogs in America have more rights than women in Islamic countries. And that IS a fact. But you're beloved news and the "liberal pussies" WON'T talk about that. They'd rather Buddha Loves You about someone flushing a Quran down the toilet. Ooooh, thats terrible compared to what the prisoner did, NOT!
Muslims are ALL in a war, a Jihad against YOU.
Man, I wish religion would just go away. It causes/has caused so many problems in this world. And what has it REALLY solved? Given the hopeless some fairy tale to cling to. A "hope" that the next world will be better than here?
Cal,
You added your reply while I was typing mine...
I see your point. BUT the IRA was pretty much the same people (Christians) with different views. And they did their mayhem to each other, not to EVERYONE and EVERYWHERE n the world. This is a completely different animal. The Islam faith is NOT compatible with the western world AT ALL. It is like a slavery state and a non-slavery state. Get it? Two radically opposed views on what is right. One side religion RULES EVERYTHING, the other has no religion. How can these two differing thoughts get along? I don't see it happening. How are WE supposed to compromise with that? Just take "some" rights away from women?
Also, why is it ALWAYS Palestine. Why? It was BRITAIN who OWNED that land! It was Britain who along with the UN decided to "give it back" and we all made that "wacked out" border separating the Israelites and Palestinians. Are we supposed to go back to the borders of the 10th century? In fact, go to your history and you'll see that there really isn't a true "Palestinian" people who lived there forever. The Palestinians were nomadic and lived more in Lebanon before they were kicked out. The Palestinian "problem" is just an excuse, a "reason" to HATE the west. A rallying point for Arabs. In the scheme of things it's NOTHING. A few hundred thousand people living in 1/10 of 1% of the middle east land area. It's a JOKE. It's an EXCUSE. The REAL problem is not Israelis in "Palestine" it's ALL non-Muslims IN THE WORLD.
READ THE QURAN!!!
Joe, I'll happily concede that some moslem clerics are very intimidating, just to look at them, let alone all that "unbeliever" and Infidel stuff the very language they use is very threatening. I just don't believe that typifies the entire moslem population of the planet. I am sure that loads of them are "nominal" moslems just like a lot of Christians who only show up at Church for Christenings, Weddings and Funerals. They just want a better house, faster car, etc,. etc,. pretty much like any other section of society.
Women's rights. Again Joe you are spot on for some countries, perhaps alarmingly it is worse in some of the arab countries that "The West" is currently supporting, I don't think the ordinary Joe (or Josephine) in Saudi or Kuwait have a lot by way of rights at all. Given the lack of democracy and Human rights you would expect us to be clamouring to depose the respective ruling families but "Needs must where the Devil drives"
On the other hand Pakistan may not be a perfect democracy but it has elected a woman Prime Minister (twice) some moslem societies do treat women very badly and some don't. Iran (who used to be baddies but now might be goodies--who knows) has realised that there is potentially a lot of talent to be had from it's female population and is making some advances where women are concerned.
I had to smile when I saw your wish that religion would go away, I can't remember if it was Marx or Lennin that described religion as the "Opium of the poor" and expresed a view very like yours. I bet you don't often find yourself in that particular camp. I'm a bit worried that I have found myself agreeing with you on a couple of occasions, perhaps it's a sign of hope for us all.
Regards,
Cal "Champaign Socialist" Price.
Timothy McVeigh bombed a whole shitload of people. He's a terrorist...Except this time...you couldn't blame it on some country and go to war.
Yeah...how bout that. How bout you stop worrying about what's going on in the middle east and worry about the nutcases in this country...at least that way it will be a whole lot harder to generalize...
I hope I never meet you... :kiss:
Jonah
It was Marx who said religion is the opiat of the masses, Joe I agree with you very much on that point about religion, it has caused many wars and many more deaths.I am glad that I have found one other person who's said something like I have in my classes. I find myself often thinking of all the good it has caused people but was it really worth it in the past and even now? just for a small glimmer of hope? I at least don't think so.
what's up with christians always lynching people?
Ok, there is always a reason that groups start raining death and destruction down upon other groups. And unless the hostile group is just a blood-thirsty bunch of crazed murderers there is something externally motivating those groups. If Palestine is a big issue with the reason for terrorism why hasn't some other group (opposed to the terror) proposed a physical piece of land from which the Palestinians can operate as a state? Joe, do you mean to tell me that you believe that a group of Muslims want to create havoc solely for the sake of religion? I mean, even though Christians did it for centuries just doesn't make it so that other religions will want to do the same. And as far as the Quran goes, I have tried to read it but it is very difficult to follow at times, but I have not found any explicit command in it which tells followers of Islam to go about slaying whomever is not a Muslim. If I am wrong will someone please point out the passages to me. This would be like someone telling me that Jesus Christ has said to go out and kill all the unbelievers just because.
Joe, I actually enjoy reading some of the diatribes you put on this forum, but only because it is an excercise for my brain, somewhat like chess. But, just like chess, it becomes a non-fun game when the person you are playing with continues to insist they be the winner even when check-mate has occurred by the other player. Part of the fun and passion of participating in forums is the give and take between the players involved. When it is supposed to be one-sided there is no longer any fun. And, like you, I have long since retired and don't like playing games that aren't fun. Lighten up, listen to others, acknowledge when a point is made, and I think you will even find some people start to support some of your positions on life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Joe, you said you didn't care what anyone thought about you and your thoughts, that you couldn't be insulted; yet when I deliberately said something about you being a "psycho" and dissed your bike, you went off on me! That which I did was merely another exercise in the game...you went off even though you said before that things like that didn't bother you. Yet you still haven't acknowledged that you were wrong, or that others on this board have made great moves in your chess-games. Are you saying that if we play with Joe he always wins even when he doesn't?
Love the Baby GS, Mississippi (chata hapia hoke), and this forum.
C........
i think i can sum it up.
Fear of change, and the lack of control to stop or steer it to your favor.
while fast in some respects and slow in others, it does come. depending on views good or bad or both.
paste all the reasons and why for's you want. its still change.
can you name the one thing that both Politics and religion - the biggest influences in how humans live their lives - have in common and feel they have no control over?
ok, thats all i got, anyone got any jacks? no go fish!
In A.D. 2101
War was beginning.
Captain: What happen ?
Mechanic: Somebody set up us the bomb.
Operator: We get signal.
Captain: What !
Operator: Main screen turn on.
Captain: It's You !!
Cats: How are you gentlemen !!
Cats: All your base are belong to us.
Cats: You are on the way to destruction.
Captain: What you say !!
Cats: You have no chance to survive make your time.
Cats: HA HA HA HA ....
Captain: Take off every 'zig' !!
Captain: You know what you doing.
Captain: Move 'zig'.
Captain: For great justice.
Cal,
I find myself in a LOT of different camps because I don't subscribe to either the left, right, or middle. EVERY situation is its own "problem" and needs it's own solution.
Chino,
????
c,
OK, you got me, I DO care a little. What I meant is I don't go crying home when you call me names. I DEFEND myself. If you "go for the throat", I'll cut to the bone. I TRY very hard NOT to be personally nasty to anyone. I TRY to stick to the discussion and not become personal.
Of course I want to win. Everyone does. To compare to your chess game... Maybe I'm just a "grand master" and that it's why it's no fun to play? HA!
A few facts and comments on Islam
The term "Islam" is derived from the Arabic root (SLM) which connotes "peace" or "SUBMISSION".
This is Islam - absolute submission or resignation to the will of Allah.
The Koran elaborates on the ways in which the followers of the prophets, specifically the Jews and the Christians, have or have not lived up to the prophetic messages.
The underlying mission of the followers of Islam is to convert or "remove" ALL "unbelievers". They believe Islam is the only "true" or "right" religion; all others are Pagans, not worthy of Allah and the glories of heaven.
Islam is an authoritarian religion, bent on the destruction of ALL other beliefs. Having an Islamic Mosque down the street is akin to having a KKK meeting hall down the street. Islam does NOT advocate peace and love unless you happen to be another Muslim! Islam is inconsistent with American/western values, hence the long history of problems and conflict within and with the Middle Eastern countries.
Below are several quotes of English translations of the Koran:
Sura 2:98 - Whoever is the enemy of Allah and His angels and His apostles and Gabriel and Michael, so surely Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers
Sura 5:51 - O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust
Sura 9:5 - But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful
Sura 9:29 - Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued
Sura 9:30 - The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
Sura 4:150 - "Those who deny Allah and His apostles, saying: 'We believe in some but reject others,' and those who wish to take a course midway, they are in truth equally unbelievers and We have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment."
Sura 5:75 - Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!
Sura 5:78 - Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses
Sura 5:80 - Thou seest many of them turning in friendship to the Unbelievers. Evil indeed are (the works) which their souls have sent forward before them (with the result), that God's wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide
Sura 9:14 - Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers
Sura 9:83 - If, then, Allah bring thee back to any of them, and they ask thy permission to come out (with thee), say: "Never shall ye come out with me, nor fight an enemy with me: for ye preferred to sit inactive on the first occasion: Then sit ye (now) with those who lag behind."
Sura 9:31 - They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah. there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).
Sura 9:6 - If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
Sura 9:28 - O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
Sura 9:33 - It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).
Sura 9:113 - It is not fitting, for the Prophet and those who believe, that they should pray for forgiveness for Pagans, even though they be of kin, after it is clear to them that they are companions of the Fire.
Sura 2:111 - And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful."
Sura 2:90 - Miserable is the price for which they have sold their souls, in that they deny (the revelation) which Allah has sent down, in insolent envy that Allah of His Grace should send it to any of His servants He pleases: Thus have they drawn on themselves Wrath upon Wrath. And humiliating is the punishment of those who reject Faith.
Sura 2:211 - Ask the Children of Israel how many clear (Signs) We have sent them. But if any one, after Allah's favor has come to him, substitutes (something else), Allah is strict in punishment.
Sura 3:11 - (Their plight will be) no better than that of the people of Pharaoh, and their predecessors: They denied our Signs, and Allah called them to account for their sins. For Allah is strict in punishment.
Sura 3:178 - Let not the Unbelievers think that our respite to them is good for themselves: We grant them respite that they may grow in their iniquity: But they will have a shameful punishment.
Sura 4:14 - But those who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment.
Sura 4:84 - Then fight in Allah's cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.
Sura 4:151 - They are in truth (equally) unbelievers; and we have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment.
Sura 98:6 - The unbelievers among the People of the Book(Jews) and the pagans (Christians and others) shall burn forever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.
Oh yes, a VERY peaceful religion indeed...
all your base are belong to us. (http://www.planettribes.com/allyourbase/AYB2.swf)
Yes, Islam is the only religion that has text that could be interpreted into violence... oh, wait:
Exodus
22:18
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
22:19
Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.
22:20
He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.
23:24
Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.
plenty more old testament ones if you want me to list them, but let's skip to the new testament, just to get JC's perspective on the whole deal, shall we?
Luke
11:23
He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Acts
3:23
And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
2 Cor
6:14
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
6:15
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
*Got this from Zara when he posted on another thread
Aaand another one:
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ... Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
- Deuteronomy, Chapter 17:2-3,5
i'd almost go with Joe's suggestion that we'd be better off without religion except that he has proved the existence of secular hate.
That's what I mean. If you read either one of them then you can find individual passages which, if taken out of context, can delude an individual to believe they should start a mass killing...if taken out of context. I said to show me in the Quran where people are commanded to go out on their own and start killing people, boom, just to go out and do it. Every single one of these verses you just took the time to paste and waste are taken entirely out of context. The Muslims I have talked and discoursed with have basically stated wording quite similar to what is spouted by Christians; there will come a time when a great fight or battle will come, being won by the armies of JC or Allah...depending on which branch yer from. Joe, the tiresome thing is that you continue to post writings which are entirely out of context which causes the game to slow down and get out of sort. Similar to moving a pawn on a diagonal, thereby forcing your opponent to not only play the game but to also ensure that you play by the rules.
Love the little bike, Football (derived by a game invented by the Mexicans), and this forum.
C........
Wait just one freakin' minute........I know I was in a lot of pain last nite, but I could of sworn I read a post, a most eloquent barbed post, by one of the most esteemed moderators on this planet, last nite. Now it is gone. Why was that removed? There was nothing wrong with that post and I felt it was rather brave and upstanding of the individual who wrote it. I felt proud to know of this man (still do)...what happened? Love the little bike, that mod (never met him), and this forum.
C........
did you look in the tard farm?
C,
check the media bias thread (http://www.gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18133&start=40)
Ok, didn't look far enough...thing should've been pasted into all of these threads :lol: . Love the little Baby, Wolves (they mate for life you know), and this forum.
C........
being as i wasnt presant for any of the transscribing of ANY Holy book even in the smallest of chapters. i wont belive everything i read as im sure the authors glitzed it up with thier own flavor.
Blue,
And you are wise to believe that.
It's common knowledge that the Bible/Torah were written by MANY people over a LONG time. Supposedly the Quran is "gods words" spoken directly through Mohammad.
Now, exactly WHAT context could this be:
Sura 98:6 - The unbelievers among the People of the Book(Jews) and the pagans (Christians and others) shall burn forever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.
Oh, I see, the context of: If you're NOT a Muslim, you are lower than scum and the only place fitting your kind is hell. At least NOW you know where you stand.
Sura 9:5 - But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful
Here the context is: Kill everyone who isn't a Muslim unless they convert totally.
Sura 9:29 - Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued
Again, it's "our" way of the highway (or should I say no way)
Sura 4:150 - "Those who deny Allah and His apostles, saying: 'We believe in some but reject others,' and those who wish to take a course midway, they are in truth equally unbelievers and We have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment."
Here they say "completely a Muslim or NOT a Muslim at all". There is NO half way. In for a penny in for a pound. You follow ALL the rules or else.
Sura 9:14 - Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers
God will help you to kill the infidels.
Sura 9:28 - O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
So, show me ANY other religion that WON'T let "unbelievers" NEAR their holy structures. Do Catholics keep Baptists away from thier churches? When I was in Saudi Arabia we were told STAY AWAY from Mosques! Why? Because THAT is where the anti-everyone else talk goes on.
Sura 3:11 - (Their plight will be) no better than that of the people of Pharaoh, and their predecessors: They denied our Signs, and Allah called them to account for their sins. For Allah is strict in punishment.
Again, kill whole civilizations who don't believe. They're STILL at it. Convert or kill, that is the mantra.
You people are B-L-I-N-D.
And if I remember kerrys post. 1-7 is what I'm after. I DO want you to see more than what is commonly available to you.
BTW, my BEST most hard hitting "truths", loaded with facts, are usually the end of the thread. They are deleted. So, I HAVE to watch what and how I say things.
I guess the truth is TOO brutal and needs to be censored.
That too is a form of control and a loss of rights.
Yes, you have done a wonderful job of ignoring facts from the other side presented right in front of you.
ALL RELIGIONS have text that can easily interpreted in negative ways.
you guys have too much time on your hands...and thanks for keeping this thread civil. tard farm if it goes south.
wow, just joined, thought very cool a gs site, but reading the kickoff to this topic string i was really appalled. Violence is a human traite and not the providence of one religion or culture, to make blanket statements about how all Moslems are this or that is to tar yourself with the same brush of intolerance. that you are outraged about killing, about individuals being denied basic freedoms, that is the right inpulse but where you've carried that is way off base. Don't you see in making Moslems the enemy because they are Moslem you legitimize what you seem to detest--the idea that one who doesnt hold the same beliefs is wrong and not deserving of respect, of life. Of course its difficult not to fall into the trap when things are hot, given the level of violence that women are subjected to here and in the world in general i could have long ago made up my mind to hate men. Personally, i've found that in taking every person for who they are i can count a great group of guys amoung those who make my life better.
whoa!!!! Yo that was deep josie. I'm feelin you on dat.
Quote from: josei noritewow, just joined, thought very cool a gs site, but reading the kickoff to this topic string i was really appalled. Violence is a human traite and not the providence of one religion or culture, to make blanket statements about how all Moslems are this or that is to tar yourself with the same brush of intolerance. that you are outraged about killing, about individuals being denied basic freedoms, that is the right inpulse but where you've carried that is way off base. Don't you see in making Moslems the enemy because they are Moslem you legitimize what you seem to detest--the idea that one who doesnt hold the same beliefs is wrong and not deserving of respect, of life. Of course its difficult not to fall into the trap when things are hot, given the level of violence that women are subjected to here and in the world in general i could have long ago made up my mind to hate men. Personally, i've found that in taking every person for who they are i can count a great group of guys amoung those who make my life better.
oh look. another pansy liberal who wants to give everything away to people who don't work and let the terrorists kill us all rather than hurt their feelings.
that type of well-thought out, even-handed reasoning will get you nowhere, newbie.
oh, and welcome to the board.
cheers,
will :)
Joerocker embraces all the tenets of hypocrisy. He is very comfortable with this notion and gladly hurdles his own flaws to reach the flaws of others.
The plank in his eye may be blinding him.
When a people OPENLY declare they WANT YOU GONE, you do NOTHING?
I just wanted to get that straight. So, lets say in Germany, Hitler declared he wanted the world and he wanted all but "his" kind exterminated, we were to do nothing?
That IS what you are saying.
I'm saying STOP the Muslims in their tracks BEFORE they have a chance to ruin the entire world for EVERYONE. They'd be THRILLED to have a world in shambles. A world thrust back to a time thousands of years ago. A few well placed nukes could certainly do that. It would sure end our way of life.
You call it intolerance to not "embrace" or "accept" a religion who wants everyone but themselves gone. I call it common sense!
You DON'T know these people. Any you meet in AMERICA are not the REAL Muslims. The "radical" Muslims are the REAL Muslims. You NEED to go to their home country to find them!
if any muslims in america are not real muslims, why should we worry? if all the dangerous muslims are in their own countries, i'm content to let them stay there.
when people openly declare that they want, say, all mexicans and blacks gone, i sit back and say, "well, it's their constitutional right to say that." when they start amassing weapons, i say, "well, that's their constitutional right, too, but could the police please keep an eye on them?" (something they don't need the abuses of the Patriot Act to do).
cheers,
will
ok...this is my last post...I'm unwatching this topic.
Cmon man, I know you are a bored old man, but seriously take a cultural anthro class, and expand your world view a little, will ya?
The idea that you can prevent crime before it happens is science fiction. Terrorism is not a war that you can fight by traditional means. Would you fight a war on drugs by nuking Latin America? Cmon man...
I'm leaving the "BS" forum...I'm going back to the "GS" forum.
Peace, diplomacy...my friends
Jonah
LOL!! ok indestructible man lets get one thing straight, pansy liberal i am not, i am a hard core lefty that eats milk toast conservatives for breakfast. ;)
and thank you for the welcome :)
J
So, the common concensus here is "you can't stop them, don't hassle anyone trying". Do I have that right?
So, if the US turns into Iraq or Israel with bombs going off all the time, you STILL won't do anything? Or, is there a "limit" before you're willing to "hassle" people for security? No bombs in 4 years, no problem. 1 a year, still not enough. 5 a year, OK, a problem now, some rights have to go. I'm curious as to exactly what if anything could make you change your mind.
verseone,
Cmon young kid, get out of your classroom and GO to these countries you "say" you know so much about. YOUR information is old, worthless, tainted. You wouldn't (want to) last 5 minutes in any of these Muslim countries. Your rights would be instantly cut by 98%. Do you know "sports Illustrated" is illegal in Saudi Arabia? Forget about ANY fitness magazine. Look at the right women (don't) have. THAT is the way these people want the WORLD to be.
Drugs is an INTERNAL problem. BIG difference my son. How do you stop drup USE, man that is a tough one. I don't have the answer to that. Oh sure, there are ways to PERMANENTLY "eliminate" drug users. But it's pretty brutal. The REAL problem with drugs is NOT people using them. It is the problems associated with the use. The crimes people commit to get the money to buy the drugs. MOST heavy drug users commit other crimes to get their fix. THAT is the REAL problem with drugs.
josi,
When I was young, poor, with no responsibilities, I too was like you. Now that I actually have things, I've changed completely. When you start to work hard to better your life you ask yourself "why am I paying so much for others to skate through life?".
See, I can still argue without being hateful!
Quote from: joerockerSo, the common concensus here is "you can't stop them, don't hassle anyone trying". Do I have that right?
hey there, straw man. how's it going? haven't seen you for at least one or two posts.
Quote from: joerockerSo, if the US turns into Iraq or Israel with bombs going off all the time, you STILL won't do anything?
interesting examples. neither of those places had bombs going off before the West decided to mess in their affairs.
in fact, Iraq and Israel are probably the two best examples (along with Iran) of how Western meddling has seriously screwed up the Middle East.
in the 1940s, when the Middle East was finally supposed to be working itself free of European Imperialism, we go and say, "this country is now Israel, it belongs to European Jews, go somewhere else."
in 1953, the CIA assists in the overthrow of the democratically elected prime minister of Iran and helps to install the Shah as dictator. a brutal regime ensues.
in the 1980s, the U.S. supplies Saddam Hussein with weapons (including chemical and biological weapons) that, among other things, he uses on his own people.
we've also been supporting the corrupt and oppressive Saudi government since before i was born.
we've repeatedly gone into the Middle East and said, "no, no, silly savages, this is how things should be," and made a serious mess of things, and you think their hatred of us is purely due to religion?
we're not fighting religious extremists. we're fighting nationalists who also happen to be religious extremists. at some point you've got to see through the propaganda.
cheers,
will
uhhh..
the people living upstairs are A-Rabs and i wake up in the middle of the night many times a week to the sound of their vacuum cleaner.
wonder what kind of mess they're cleaning up...
:icon_rolleyes:
nukes.
Bacon?
instead of bombs just start droping pigs.
/me is waiting for this thread to make its way to the tard farm
here's a idea, we'll send Joe over there as a messenger of diplomacy, cause I'm sure he can win them over.
goin' south! warning - not for the easily offended. I personally thought it was damn funny.
http://www.big-boys.com/articles/badterror.html