GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

An aquaintance of mine offered me a test ride on his 03 VFR800..... and damn.

All I can say is... wow. So effortless and so smooth.

The bike felt as if it were floating over the road, while at the same time, totally connected and giving me tons of information.

The power was phenomenal, while being extraordinarily controllable and smooth. All I had to do was think, and the bike would respond. The bike was totally happy cruising on the freeway in 3rd gear at 60. It was amazing. I want one.

The only... odd thing about it was how *big* the bike felt. Not heavy, just, large. As such, I was a little timid with it... though, that was also do to the fact that I was riding someone else's 10,000 dollar motorcycle. I'm sure that in time I'd adapt to the size and power of the bike and be able to be assertive with the controls.

In some ways, it reminded me of how I felt when I started riding my GS. Kind of strange and alien. When I got back on my bike, it felt so tiny and toy-like. I felt kind of.. out of place.

Anyway, now I need to test ride some other bikes before I make a decision about what I'm going to get next. :-)

I'm glad to hear a good review of that bike.  Do '03 models have VTEC?  I really enjoy sport-touring type riding, but so many other "sport"-tourers are HUGE (ST1300, FJR1200, BMWs).  I was thinking about the VFR as my next bike, but it is pretty damn expensive.  I think I'm probably gonna get an SV1000S, and just throw some soft luggage on it.  Or maybe the new Triumph Sprint ST.  I know what you mean about the 'big' feeling though.  I think part of it has to do with a wider seat.  I'm kinda short, so maybe it is the seat HIEGHT not the width.

Quote from: oppy00I really enjoy sport-touring type riding, but so many other "sport"-tourers are HUGE (ST1300, FJR1200, BMWs).

I am getting a leeeeetle sport tourer as my commuter.



I tried every sport tourer I thought I could fit on first.  VFR is a good option for someone bigger than I am.  Triumph Sprint or Trophy, or an Aprilia Futura, would also be good; all bigger than Breva size, but not K-bike size.  Also look at the F650CS - although price gave the Breva the nod over it, for me.  Pity - very cool bike.
Actually, one bike that I tried that absolutely astounded me with how comfortable and capable a touring bike it was is a FZR1000; if it weren't chain-drive (I decided I needed a low-maintenance drive in a commuter), I would have been very tempted to get it.  It's one they had at Aurora Suzuki, and to be fair, the PO tweaked it a lot.  But all very excellent tweaks.
http://www.aurora-suzuki.com/preowned/Sport.html

The gentlemen who started the company I currently work for, Peter,  owns a 97 VFR (750 back in those days).  He's managed put just over 70,000km's on the bike and it still runs gorgeously.  So much so that although he can afford to purchase a new bike, he's terrified of spending money on something that may provide a less rewarding ride.  However, everything that has been written about the VFR recently suggests that the technology is a bit dated (yes.. I'm aware of the irony in that statement given we ride around on parallel twins), and that many other sport touring bikes may provide a better ride.  He's finally decided to buy a Sprint ST next year, a bike rumoured to be based heavily on the VFR (and one that looks a lot like it in my opinion).

That being said, last year Peter was invited to test ride the new bmw 1200 for three days at the Nuremberg, Germany racetrack.  I believe he was the only Canadian invited (the entrance required one demographic test, one technical test and an essay on why you should be selected for the test ride -- it came with free flight, accomodation and three days of track lessons on the bmw).  Long story short, he loved the power, but felt that while hammering down gears and decreasing speed, there was significantly more vibration than on his VFR.  Anyhow, he decided not to buy one, and shortly after BMW had a massive recall in Europe for the same bike and delayed the launch here in North America by nearly a year.

Incidentally, Peter's wife, a colleague of mine, also rides.  She has a 2003 Monster 620, but will likely get a faired bike given the amount of touring they do.

The 2003's do have VTEC. As far as I could tell, it was pretty transparent. No surge of power when smoothly rolling on the throttle. I've heard complaints about the VTEC destabalizing the bike in corners if it actuates, but lots of people claim  this isnt the case, and looking at a dyno chart for the VFR, there isnt any step in power at 7000rpm (where the VTEC activates), just a smooth curve of power all the way from down low.

The sprint ST is nice, but the thing that draws me to the VFR is the legendary reliability, like sys was talking about. VFR750s have been known to go hundreds of thousands of miles with good maintanance, and the 800s appear just as reliable. I recently started working as a motorcycle messenger (Yay!!!), and I do a *ton* of riding now. In the last 3 weeks I've done almost 2000 miles on the GS. So, I want something that will last a loooong time.

The cool thing about that reliability is, though, that you can pick up a used one with confidence that its going to last you. And, VFR owners tend to be mature, more experienced riders... not squids, so they've almost all been looked after. Even the old VFRs I see around SF are well maintained and obviously loved.

As for the VFR being dated, its just that its a several-year-old model, and other bikes have come along and devloped new standards (mostly the Sprint ST). A lot of people criticize the VTEC, as it doesnt appear to offer any real performance gain, htpothetically could destabilize the bike, and complicates maintanance. They also got rid of the traditional VFR gear driven cams, which sound *amazing* on the 98-01 models. I have a feeling we'll see a new VFR anounced this september. Rumour has it that its going to ve a 1200cc V-5 motor, to replace the VFR and Blackbird. Personally, I hope not, as that would put the bike firmly out of my reach. Heh.

I think what I"m going to have to end up doing is getting two bikes. VFR for work and travel, and another bike for fun/track days.

Of course, my general irresponsibility has me lusting after a half-dozen different bikes right now. Gah. *laugh* The new Speed Triple and KTM Super Duke, CBR600RR, both gens of Kawi 636, VFR800, Yamaha V-Star (only cruiser I like), new R1 (if I though I could ride it responsibly)... and on and on and on. *laugh*

While the VFR is a great bike, I would not use it for messenger service.  The maintenance on a bike like that would make it inpractical and expensive to ride so extensively.  Especially the V-Tech models as their valve adjustments are more frequent, complex, and expensive.  Additionally, the huge weight and adequate power of a VFR simply eats rear rubber.  A good sport touring tire would help, but just slows down the inevitable.

That being said, there really isn't a better messenger bike than the GS500, except for possibly a small-bore, air cooled, dual sport fitted with street rubber motard style.

Hmm. I've heard the opposite from my fellow couriers.... that with good sport touring tires, they can go a fair distance between changes, and that, at least on the pre-vtec models, adjustments and other maintanance arent hideously expensive.

The consensus is that the overall durability of the bike outweighs its complexity.

The GS is a great messenger bike for city work. If that was what I was doing, I'd be getting another (fresher) one ASAP. However, 95% of my miles for work are on freeways at high speed, not the best environment for the GS. The engine is straining, the whole bike is vibrating, and the windblast is seriously uncomfortable.

Quote from: EisenfaustI've heard complaints about the VTEC destabalizing the bike in corners if it actuates, but lots of people claim  this isnt the case...

my riding buddy had to get rid of his because of the VTEC. the only people who you'll hear saying its not apparent or a problem are the people on vfrdiscussion.com or whatever the forum is...its denial. every magazine mentions how bad it is too.

older viffers are great though.

A VFR weighs over 500 pounds wet, and puts around 100hp to the tarmac, a classic recepie for short lived tires.  With good sport rubber expect 1500-3000 miles, add a couple more K's for touring tires.  My friend Tim has both a VFR800 and a CBR1000RR, and complains about the Viffer eating tires.

It would be like using a NSX to deliver newspapers in my opinion.  A bike with some real bright points, some curious attributes, and an unusual engine configuration that breeds unnecessecary complexity into a heavy package.  Not what I'd want in a beater delivery bike.  Many bikes (mostly air-cooled ones) seem way more practical.

I drive a van that I need to make my living.  When it is down it not only costs me money to repair it, but I also miss jobs while fixing it or waiting for parts.  Applying the KISS principle might serve your purposes better.

Quote from: EisenfaustHowever, 95% of my miles for work are on freeways at high speed, not the best environment for the GS. The engine is straining, the whole bike is vibrating, and the windblast is seriously uncomfortable.

Well, if you really want to justify a new bike, that will do as an excuse...   :lol:   It's fairly smooth and mellow going 80-90 all day, and a windscreen will deal with the wind blast.
But if you just plain want something new - well, instead of looking at what you can see about your GS to justify a new bike, look at what you want in a new bike.  Make a list of features you need/want/would like and within that trio, how important they are relative to each other.  Then do a good ol' cost/benefit analysis.

You could always go with the Yamaha YZF-600R, outfitted for touring (higher clipons, windscreen, seat.  My friend swears by his bike on long trips.  That would be relatively cheap, compared to a VFR, fairly reliable, and would give you nice wind protection.  :dunno:

I miss my VFR I wish I never sold it...

Quote from: pantablo
older viffers are great though.

VTEC isnt something I want. If I got one, I'd get a pre-vtec model, for sure, if only because of the fact that its mechanically simpler. I have no idea why they added it to the bike. It didnt seem to do anything for the power/torque figures that good fuel tuning and some playing around with head design couldnt have done.


Note that I've got a ton of wildly different bikes under consideration. A partial list:

KLR650
F650GS
VFR800i
ZX-6E
Concours
SV650S
Silverwing
K100
CBF600
TDM850

Its just that the VFR is the only one I've gotten to ride so far ;-) And I certainly wouldnt buy anything *new*. Just new to me, preferably a good deal on a mechanically sound, but perhaps not-cosmetically-perfect bike. I've seen a BUNCH of VFRs for sale locally that are good deals. I'm not going to use my pride and joy for a dispatch hack.

Really, I know what the perfect bike for my job is, they just dont sell it here in the US.



Yamaha TDM900.

900cc parallel twin, 10 valve.
Comfy as hell, long tank range, decently sporty, lots of wind protection, 80 horsepower, torque aplenty, 24000 miles between major services, and good looking to boot.

If they sold it here, I'd buy one this weekend. Seriously.

Why isn't the TDM sold stateside?  Is it emissions or something else?  Just wondering 'cause it looks like something I would definitely consider buying.

QuoteWhy isn't the TDM sold stateside? Is it emissions or something else? Just wondering 'cause it looks like something I would definitely consider buying.

What's involved in importing bikes to the US, does anyone know?  Is titling / registering / insuring foreign vehicles really that daunting?

C

Quote from: oppy00Why isn't the TDM sold stateside?  Is it emissions or something else?  Just wondering 'cause it looks like something I would definitely consider buying.

As far as I know, its because the TDM850 did horribly here, so Yamaha doesnt think there's a market for it. The motor is pretty much just half of an R1 mill, so there's no doubt it could pass our emissions rules.

It *is* possible to bring a bike into the US. I dont know whats involved. Its certainly easier than bringing a car in. I see VFR400's, GSX-R400s, etc, for sale, registered, every once in a while here in the bay area.

However, the big issue is: where are you going to get parts for it when it needs maintainance? What happenes when you need a new clutch, or levers, or plastics, or a footpeg? Send off to the UK and hope it gets here in a timely fashion?

Oh well.

Really, the TDM is a very cool bike. Its like a more grown-up version of the GS500. As I said, I'd ride one in an instant, if they sold them here. It meets every requirement I have in a bike, aside from not having the desireable shaft drive... which is optional really, since I dont mind chain maintainance, its just the cost of sprockets and chains.

Quote from: EisenfaustAn aquaintance of mine offered me a test ride on his 03 VFR800..... and damn.

Anyway, now I need to test ride some other bikes before I make a decision about what I'm going to get next. :-)

Try on the new 2005 Honda 600RR for size. It will hit 70+ in second gear. HEHE 4 more gears to go! I love my new bike. But this damn Florida weather is going to keep it in the garage for the next couple of months.  :x

I would have to say that I think some of the information on here regarding the vtec models is a bit off. I know several people who own vtec models and they don't have any complaints about them. First off, any bike with good power is going to eat tires with serious mileage, I don't know anyone only getting 1500-3000 miles out of tires. The vtec is going to cost a bit more for maintenence, but you would be hard pressed to find a more usable motorcycle day to day. The new sprint st from triumph is a great bike and the engine is a peach, but maintenence on a triumph is going to be considerably more than the honda. Parts, bodywork, and maintenence on triumph tends to run a bit more than the japanese brands. Misc. parts and bodywork are actually very expensive compared to the big four. On the occasions that I have ridden the Vtec I haven't had any problems with the vtec, I think it gives the engine a lot of character but I might be alone in this. I would say that I think someone would probably find the vtec annoying during very spirited riding or trackdays, but under most circumstances I don't think it would be an issue. In my opinion though I think you could find some suitable bikes for less money, ex...

suzuki bandit 1200
suzuki katana 750
both still sport the air/oil cooled engines so maintenence is pretty low, and they would still offer decent performance and that big bike feel for the motorway. just my 2 cents.

Quote from: Altruism111... new 2005 Honda 600RR for size. It will hit 70+ in second gear. HEHE 4 more gears to go! I love my new bike. But this damn Florida weather is going to keep it in the garage for the next couple of months.  :x

uh, you should try shifting later...I get 75mph in FIRST on my '04 RR, at redline, and it was still pulling. I hit 105 in second, also at redline. In n neither case did I get to the rev limiter though.

Quote from: gs2svFirst off, any bike with good power is going to eat tires with serious mileage, I don't know anyone only getting 1500-3000 miles out of tires.

well, I for one havent been able to get 2000 miles out of a set yet. In fact, the set on the bike now has 600 miles and they're toast, at least for any hard riding.

Quote from: gs2svThe vtec is going to cost a bit more for maintenence.

try $800 for the valve service. I seem to recall this number from when my friend having his bike...might be off a bit (but still a considerable number)

Quote from: gs2svI would say that I think someone would probably find the vtec annoying during very spirited riding or trackdays, but under most circumstances I don't think it would be an issue.

My friend was riding in the canyons with it, not hard riding but hard enough 2 up to really make the vtec known and upset the bike mid corner when it kicked in. There's no doubt the vfr can be a good canyon tool, as can many bikes but for moderate canyon carving the vtec is right in the meat of where one would ride, around 7000rpm.

Quote from: Roadstergalhttp://www.aurora-suzuki.com/preowned/Sport.html

That yellow 2004 GS500F looks familiar... "Beautiful Shape, Cut Down Seat"

Quotewell, I for one havent been able to get 2000 miles out of a set yet. In fact, the set on the bike now has 600 miles and they're toast, at least for any hard riding.

I would venture a guess that those aren't 600 road miles? doing some trackdays? I have never gotten less than 4000 miles out of a set of road tires. aside from track use there is no reason to be getting 600 miles a set unless you are running the wrong psi.

Quotetry $800 for the valve service. I seem to recall this number from when my friend having his bike...might be off a bit (but still a considerable number)

the number I've heard is anywhere between $600-$700, which is no doubt high, but the triumph triple adj. runs between $400-$500 depending on the shop, so that ain't much better.

QuoteMy friend was riding in the canyons with it, not hard riding but hard enough 2 up to really make the vtec known and upset the bike mid corner when it kicked in. There's no doubt the vfr can be a good canyon tool, as can many bikes but for moderate canyon carving the vtec is right in the meat of where one would ride, around 7000rpm.

I have never owned a vtec, but I have had a good amount of experience riding a buddies 04, and I just really never noticed the vtec upsetting the handling mid turn or any other time. the only thing my buddy told me is that if it kicks in during a wheelie it can be a bit unerving. other than that I would say that the handling is pretty rock solid. very good feedback from the front, and it always felt stable even over rougher tarmac, even with the kick of the vtec. It might be possible that with the bike being 2up, there wasn't enough weight towards the front end, and when the vtec kicked in it just made it feel even lighter towards the front, this would certainly give a feeling of being disconected.

Well, I'd probably get a Pre-VTEC model anyways, even though I'd like one with ABS. I do enough panic stops every day that I'd kind of like the peace of mind.

I've been getting quoted at 400-500 on the valve adjustments for the non-vtec. I'd have to ask about the VTEC one. Either way, reports seem to indicate that I'd only need one or two a year, and any maintainiance I have done is tax-deductable (as is the cost of the bike, w00t)... so *shrug*

Really, my only concern is tire life.... and more because of the inconvenience of having my bike in the shop for a few hours while they toss tires on it, than the cost of the tires. Sport touring buns arent as expensive as DOT legal race rubber, and I'm making enough that the expense shouldnt be too bad.

As for the 600RR, heh. Yeah, I want one, but I cant see spending 30 hours a week on one. ;-)

As far as tires are concerned, a vfr should't be any worse on rubber than any other larger displacement bike. My advice would be to just stick with touring or sport touring rubber, race tires don't offer any grip advantage on the road, since they are designed to give optimal grip at a higher temperature than street tires. Race rubber is not designed to go through heat cycles like road tires, they are meant to operate at higher temperatures for extended periods. ST tires will usually give better grip at a lower temperature, so they warm to an optimal temp much faster than a race tire. Using race tires for street use is usually just wasted money. Good luck with whatever bike you pick, can't really go wrong with a vfr in my opinion.

Heh, I'd never use race tires on the street.

My primary riding buddy has a piped and jetted Bandit 1200 making about 115hp at the wheel. Hefty bike, similar in size to the VFR. He rides the wheels off of it, uses Metzler Roadtecs, and gets 6-8k miles out of a set of tires.

Seems like a decent setup to me.

Quote from: gs2svI would venture a guess that those aren't 600 road miles? doing some trackdays? I have never gotten less than 4000 miles out of a set of road tires.

er, that would be 600 TRACK ONLY miles...guess its pretty good, except for the wheel spin coming out of a few turns (since the right side is almost bald)...not bad for a street tire-I run Pilot Powers.

On the street, before I started to do any trackdays I was getting about 2000-2500 miles out of a set. My riding, however, consists exclusively of canyons, ridden pretty hard, and the psi of the tires is low like I would use on the track, for that reason. I'm sure I could get more mileage out of a set but I run them the way I do for peace of mind. Still, at $300 a pop, installed, its something I have to consider in my budget...

this is me yesterday, at Streets of Willow (Willow Springs Int'l Raceway).


first session, first time ever on this track, and I was hounded by that supermotard (and my buddy on his motard) all day...

Quote from: EisenfaustWell, I'd probably get a Pre-VTEC model anyways,

I've been getting quoted at 400-500 on the valve adjustments for the non-vtec. I'd have to ask about the VTEC one. Either way, reports seem to indicate that I'd only need one or two a year, and any maintainiance I have done is tax-deductable (as is the cost of the bike, w00t)... so *shrug*

Really, my only concern is tire life....

Go for the gear driven cams - they sound so good :) .  I ride a '97VFR750 and for a bike you can ride all day whilst touring, go for a quick spurt up the local mountain or a peak hour traffic putt putt it is a good choice.  With a nice sport exhaust the V4 is my baby Chevy.  Only thing I would love is if they would shed 30kg - the GS feels like a bicycle in comparison, you really need to set the Viffer up for corners whilst the GS is more forgiving.

As for servicing I do that all myself nowdays -  not much harder than servicing the GS, and the valves only need checking every 24,000kms.  For tyres I use the sport-touring type like Bridgestone 020 or Michie Pilot Roads and get 10-12k kms from a set (do the occasional trackday as well).  The other thing I like is the build quality of the bike - compared to other makes its age the bike really shows the higher quality of its components and build.

Now my dad rides a BMW GS1100 and a mate the newer GS1200 and these bikes are fun in the twisties - great for hounding a R1 or GSXR1000 as long as there are no long straights.  Pity they don't have much bike 'sex' appeal else I would seriously consider getting one.

Cheers
Conrad

Quote from: pantabloAltruism111 wrote:
... new 2005 Honda 600RR for size. It will hit 70+ in second gear. HEHE 4 more gears to go! I love my new bike. But this damn Florida weather is going to keep it in the garage for the next couple of months.!

Quote from: pantablopantablo wrote:

uh, you should try shifting later...I get 75mph in FIRST on my '04 RR, at redline, and it was still pulling. I hit 105 in second, also at redline. In n neither case did I get to the rev limiter though.!

I would but I have only had the bike for 2 weeks now. I dont want to push my luck! But thanks I do look forward to the day when I will be doing that!

uh, this was on a closed course (track) of course... :lol:

Quote from: pantablouh, this was on a closed course (track) of course... :lol:

Much safer that way I suppose. No cops too!  :cheers:

I truly do miss my VFR, such a well made bike, a joy to ride, lots of power, and a great sound...

(http://www.gstwins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12712/nc7.jpg)

Quote from: vfrocketI truly do miss my VFR, such a well made bike, a joy to ride, lots of power, and a great sound...

Why did you get rid of it?

Quote from: pantablofirst session, first time ever on this track, and I was hounded by that supermotard (and my buddy on his motard) all day...

Someone brought a DRZ400SM to the PR day - that thing was cooking.  I was considering one as my commuter, but the seat was way, way, way too tall.

lost my job, had to get rid of some debts....

Quote from: Roadstergal

Quote from: pantablofirst session, first time ever on this track, and I was hounded by that supermotard (and my buddy on his motard) all day...

Someone brought a DRZ400SM to the PR day - that thing was cooking.  I was considering one as my commuter, but the seat was way, way, way too tall.

he was riding a dr650 converted to SM with 17" wheels, etc. He and his buddy on an R6 were TOURING, having ridden 200 or so miles THAT NIGHT to get to the track, then finishing the ride with about 1600 miles total when they got home, riding home from the track...crazy.

this link goes to his video as he's chasing my buddy riding his xr650 honda, also converted to SM. he lowsides at the end but was unharmed. even picked up the bike from the dirt, got back on and kept riding on the track...

http://southbayriders.com/forums/showthread.php?p=205104

Supermotos can be DAMNED fast around a track when theyre ridden by someone who knows what they're doing.

Id consider one, if it werent for the size/comfort issue. Heh.