GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

I recently made the switch to Mac earlier this year.  I've had PC's the last 10+ years and it was time for a new computer, I did some research and decided a mac was the best decision.  

So I bought a Powerbook G4 with 512 megs of ram and a dvd burner.  :)

It's been better than I expected, since the get-go.  I run OS X Panther and its awesome.  I've liked it so much, I went out and bought another one, a mac mini just last week.

Its great b/c I can still run all of my favorite windows programs with virtual pc and office: mac.  

Goodbye "blue screen of death"
Goodbye crappy PC's  :nana:

I am using a PC now after having way too many breakdowns with my macs.  By the way, for some reason, the state of FL does not allow one to purchase "Applecare"  Everyone I know with Ibooks had way too many problems as well.

Having said that, I really loved my macs and miss them.  I don't know if another one is in my  future though.

I am a PC guy. I am a professional technician, and an enthusiast aside. I love Windows 98 and XP. Most of the others are garbage to use and work on. We've got a couple of Macs at work, and I am responsible for their upkeep. iMacs with OS 9 and OS X. They are web surfing only (for staff breaks) so they don't do much but sit there, look pretty and check email and surf. I personally don't like them really. I think of a Mac like a scooter, and a PC like a motorcycle. One is a lot easier to use and less likely to crash..but also seems limited and too confining. I guess I am just too used to PC's.  :dunno:

I just switched to a mac about 3 weeks ago. I haven't been using it that long and I haven't upgraded to Tiger so the jury is still out on whether or not I think it's better. So far, I really like it and think it was worth the $ (I found a used powermac g4).

I'm tired of re-installing windows every 6 months when it slows down, scanning for spyware every couple of weeks, viruses every week and having patches rammed down my throat that remove "bad" software. Keep in mind that microsoft considers firefox to be "untrustworthy". I don't like it.

I've tried linux, and its a great idea. However, I don't think that its practical for a desktop yet. I tried gentoo before I realized that I didn't want to spend all my time re-compiling my system. I used ubuntu and mepis for a while, and I got tired of the POS Ati drivers crashing every hour. I'm still planning on using it, just not for my primary desktop and not on a computer that requires proprietary graphics drivers.

I want something that works and stays that way. The only thing that I don't like about my new mac is the lack of good software. Like CD burning apps. I refuse to give Roxio any of my money (too many bad experiences with their software) and I haven't found any reasonable alternatives to Toast so at the moment, I'm kinda SOL until (and if)  k3b and its dependencies get ported to Aqua/OSX. There are other examples, but that is the worst that I have found so far.

I've been using computers for various purposes for almost 20 years now (yikes I'm gettin old :o). I've had the satisfaction of building a PC for dirt cheap and spent hours searching for drivers and recompiling various flavors of linux.

When I come home in the evening I work on a Mac.  It does everything I normally want to do with none of the PC headaches already mentioned here. Plus it is silent and looks nice enough that the wife allows it to sit in the living room.

I'm always amazed that when I visit my relatives they ask me to fix their computers but they won't take my simple advice to buy a Mac next time :x

Goat: What kind of CD burning do you want to do that you can't do with the OS X?

I agree with  Roadstergal's comments below about servers but I think that it is another discussion. If had to support a bunch of  basic users (which I don't do anymore thank god) I would put them on OSX machines. I'm outta that business now and I agree that XP Pro (constantly updated) is perfectly acceptable.

I have used computers since I could read, put myself through college as an op, and currently work as a contractor supporting a PC/Mac business and 1/4 time as a sysadmin for a mostly-Mac LAN.  I had an Apple II+, a Lisa, built my own PCs, yadda.
I've always liked UNIX and DOS/Win over MacOS as being easier to work with; MacOS has too many buffers between the source and the user.  Win had plenty of problems in its early days; it finally got decent with 98 SP2 (not 98!); ME sucked, but with Win XP Pro, we finally have a really, really good OS that combines ease of use with the ability to actually muck with everything you need to muck with.  
Most of the problems I've come across that make people Buddha Loves You about PCs are user error.
UNIX just doesn't have the hardware support I need.
Mac OS Panther is the best Mac OS I've worked with, but that's damning with faint praise.  I recently upgraded our server (file/FTP/web) from OSX Panther to Tiger, and I've noticed very little real difference.  As a server, OSX sucks ass.

I've heard that in general, Mac servers are more secure than *nix and Windows boxes, which is probably true due to the lack of abundant known exploits available.

But what good is it to be secure if it just plain sucks?  :mrgreen:

I kinda like Novell Netware, it seems pretty good for the most part. That is what we use (6.5) with very little problem. Except for BorderManager..what a worthless piece of crap that is.

I guess all I am trying to say is that in my experience, and from what I have heard about others using macs is that its easy.

I've never even had the smallest problem with this computer.  I've never even seen popups on it :)  (although my software does update itself once or twice a month)

It's great because its hassle-free.  It's easier to support and maintain, and there's no dissapointments, like I've had with PCs.  

Theres no "terminal errors" that require a reboot, programs don't freeze up (how often to use ctrl-alt-del?), and macs are significantly less prone to virus attacks.

Question, replys, are you speaking english or am I so computer illiterate that I just don't know?..... Think I answered my own question.

I love my pc. I like the fact that I can beat INTEL pc that are clocked way higher than my athlon 64 overclocked to 2.8ghz. GO AMD.

Quote from: PhaedrusI've heard that in general, Mac servers are more secure than *nix and Windows boxes, which is probably true due to the lack of abundant known exploits available.

Probably due more to
a) vastly more Unix and Windows servers out there, making them a much more compelling target for hackers.
b) Mac being easier to set up securely if you don't want to do much with it (plug and play); i.e. if you have a novice admin, they'll cause less damage with a Mac server.

Mac and PC OSs are both easy to keep updated these days.

Quote from: 97gs500eI've never even had the smallest problem with this computer.  I've never even seen popups on it :)  (although my software does update itself once or twice a month)

It's great because its hassle-free.  It's easier to support and maintain, and there's no dissapointments...

Theres no "terminal errors" that require a reboot, programs don't freeze up (how often to use ctrl-alt-del?), and macs are significantly less prone to virus attacks.

That's about my experience with my XP PC boxes... I've never had a virus on any of my personal machines, they don't crash, no popups unless I've specifcally asked (PMs on this page, e.g.).

Macs freeze, crash, and get popups, even with OSX.  You should see the lab machines I support.

I think the user has as much to do with it than the platform, and this user prefers XP.

I use to be an IT manager for our company before I moved on from that role. We are a large interactive media studio and most of our workstations are Macs. Personally, I can't live without both my Macs, PCs, and Linux boxes. All have their strengths and weaknesses. There is no reason to confine yourself to any one platform or technology.

I guess if I had to pick one, it would be the Mac. Software/hardware integration is absolutely amazing and easy on the platform. Mac enterprise solutions have come a very long way in the last couple of years. The argument that Macs are limited in any way compared to a PC is just not viable anymore. Mac if I absolutely had to pick, but I seriously need it all.

Quote from: roguegeekThe argument that Macs are limited in any way compared to a PC is just not viable anymore.

For some of the things I do, it is.

There is one very specific thing, though, where you need a Mac.  If you do flow cytometry, there's a program called Flowjo that is absolutely the best analysis program out there.  They have a Mac and a PC version, and the PC version sucks big hairy donkey balls.  The Mac version is Nirvana after working with the previous offerings.  For that, you really want a Mac off in the cornera...

(Although it does crash if you try to do anything while it's spooling a print job.)   :P

They charge up the wazoo for it, though.  $1300 academic price for a single license!  There's not enough competition.

I could go into specifics too on both sides, but that wasn't the point of my comment.

All I can say is if you want to do hardcore photo, graphics, or video editing Mac is the way to go.  I am a PC user though.

Quote from: cobalt135hardcore photo

:? :o :roll: :mrgreen:

How about neither .... Unix forever ... Raising right fist to the sky ...
ls -lt ---- forever
ps -ef ---- forever
kill -9 ---- FOREVER
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: pfb

Quote from: cobalt135hardcore photo

:? :o :roll: :mrgreen:

Was not quite thinking of it that way.....but it would work for that too :cheers:

"For the last number of years, the only parts of a Mac that are uncontestably not PC have been the CPU and the motherboard."   http://www.overclockers.com/tips00793/

seems more and more Mac is grabbing at 3rd party products which are mainly geared to PC as an industry design standard.  Mac is using more and more "Off the shelf" parts in their box. i guess it helps keep costs down a bit.


while im still trying to learn linux, to get out from under M$ thumb, i find it neat that many flavors of linux are rock solid stable, almost NO virus's to mess with, and will run on Both PC and Mac.  i also like that you can legally tailor the code to suit your needs and wants.

I can access the gstwin message boards fine on this Dell (obviously) but when I try to access the message boards on my eMac, all I get is a blank window. I've tried Safari, Firefox and IE and get the same result with all: nothing. Cookies and Java enabled, disabled, same result.

Any ideas what the problem might be?

The best system is the one that lets you get your work done.  If it is WinDoze: great.  sMAC: wonderful.  Eunuchs: dandy.  Timex-Sinclair: good on ya.  TRS-80: you da man.

For me and my workplace, it is Windoze XP all around, with a single sMac.

Quote from: RoadstergalProbably due more to
a) vastly more Unix and Windows servers out there, making them a much more compelling target for hackers.
b) Mac being easier to set up securely if you don't want to do much with it (plug and play); i.e. if you have a novice admin, they'll cause less damage with a Mac server.

Wow. RG, I'm rather disapointed that you actually believe A. That argument has been used for years by windows proponents against Linux, and has always been flawed in one major way: its not true. Now, I haven't looked into Mac but there's one easy way to discredit (not disprove) that assumption. Basically, for years Linux has hosted many more web pages than windows (70% vs 20%, netcraft). Now, what is more attractive to attack? Then, based on attrition's web defacement statistics windows takes over 60%.

The issue isn't what crackers look for. Every OS has holes. However, you have two approaches to patching them. Most software running on Linux will be patched and released a few days after the exploit is known, while MS tries to hide their holes and patch them monthly to semi-annually. The second approach would work, if noone else could find the holes by themselves. However, thats not the case so it just gives crackers a longer window of opportunity.

Anyhow, I admin a linux cluster, some servers and a lab of Windows, OS X, Linux and IRIX machines used for bioinformatics and chemical genomics research. Every machine (aside from the IRIX box) runs Linux, PCs dual boot Windows, Macs dual boot OS X. My main workstation is a G4 running Debian.

At home, I have a homebuilt PC running Debian and two iBooks. I think OS X is a great tool for a desktop. Its basically no work, but always works. iBooks have issues but, so does every laptop. AppleCare is definatly worth the money. The only problem I've had with our laptops in the last 3years was a power cord our dog chewed. I called apple, they had a replacement at our door the next day. But, always deal with apple directly, the local "authorized service" shops suck. My work iBook has been dropped from 4+ feet high at least 6 times (yeah, and they let me work with expensive equipment, why?) and works fine.

Quote from: dbNncI can access the gstwin message boards fine on this Dell (obviously) but when I try to access the message boards on my eMac, all I get is a blank window. I've tried Safari, Firefox and IE and get the same result with all: nothing. Cookies and Java enabled, disabled, same result.

Any ideas what the problem might be?

1) look for another phpbb running the same software and see if that's it.
2) can you get to the gstwins main page? if not, you probably can't access the server its on
3) try viewing the source of a page to see if its getting the page and just mucking up the rendering
4) user error? ;)

If you really want to have some fun, open up a terminal and type:
telnet www.gstwins.com 80
GET /forum/ HTTP/1.1
Host: www.gstwins.com
<blank line>

And see what it spits out.

I've browsed it with Safari and Firefox on OS X.3 just fine. My bet is that you (for some reason) can't connect to the server.

Answer this:
All of our computers are PCs arn't they, no matter what brand made them.

I mean, PC stands for "Personal Computer" and we are using these computers for personal use.

Quote from: Mr.7Answer this:
All of our computers are PCs arn't they, no matter what brand made them.

I mean, PC stands for "Personal Computer" and we are using these computers for personal use.

So, what would you call a workstation exclusively for professional use?

A "Professional Computer"

This means no posting on GStwin.com because that is not you job now is it?

Quote from: BadgerSo, what would you call a workstation exclusively for professional use?

I think you would call it semantics...

PC is a generally accepted term for a micro-computer (aka personal computer...  not a main-frame, mini-computer, etc.) that is not a MAC.

The "Personal" part doesn't refer to the owner or use of the machine, rather the number of users...  PCs were one person per, rather than being a dumb/smart terminal linked to a server...  Yes, I know multiple people can use them but PC is a legacy term...  Get over it...

To most people it's MAC, PC, other...

As an example, you can run Lye-Nux on a PC, MAC, mini-computer, etc...  As long as the kernel is compiled for it.

Quote from: RVertigoPC is a generally accepted term for a micro-computer (aka personal computer...  not a main-frame, mini-computer, etc.) that is not a MAC.

Right, a PC is generally considered any descendent of the brand-named IBM PC from whence the design originated.  UNIX folks like to refer to their computers as "workstations" (or, affectionately: "Pizza Boxes") so as to not confuse them with anything that might be considered a toy, and helps them justify the obscene amount that they paid for it.  In professional circles, Macs are typically referred to as "door stops", "boat anchors", "this f&*&ing thing" or other similarly endearing term.  Unless it's OSX, of course...then it's referred to as "UNIX".

:P

I've been throwing around a mac PowerBook G3 (lombard) for a little over 5 years.  I've swapped in a bigger hard drive, and all the ram it can hold.  Had to replace the logic board about 6 months ago, but that's it.  I love that old thing.  I run Office, IE,  Illustrator, Photoshop, CorelDraw Suite, iTunes, and Diablo2, and thats about all it can handle, but that's enough for me.  I have a PC on my desk at home and work now, mostly because to get a new Mac I'd have to move up to OSX, so there's the cost of the mac (cha-ching) _plus_ the cost of all new software. ug.

Go Atari! :thumb:

Quote from: Mr.7Go Atari! :thumb:

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Well soon enough the only difference between MACs and PCs is going to be one runs Windows and the other runs some form of MAC OS over Unix.  The hardware is going to be the same......

Edit: theres an funny concept, a mac unning windows or visa versa.

Your all nerds, stop talking about computers and go for a ride on your GS

If I had insurence, that is what I would be doing right now :cheers:

Quote from: natedawg120Edit: theres an funny concept, a mac unning windows or visa versa.

I take it you've never seen this:
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/virtualpc/virtualpc.aspx

..or this :

http://pearpc.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html

I use Win2K and XP at work, where I really have no choice (to some extent) on what technology and platform we use for our clients.  

Since about 1998 I've been using linux at home.  First to share my internet connection and to provide a cheap firewall solution, and then eventually as my desktop machine.  It wasn't easy though, and my wife still refuses to use it (she runs XP on her laptop).

Quote from: dionysusAt home, I have a homebuilt PC running Debian...

:thumb:  Once you "apt-get", you can never go back..

I've been thoroughly unimpressed with OSX in the lab environments at skewl.  All of the lab Macs are either the new flat panel iMacs or G5 towers, and they are incredibly slow to boot, frequently decide they can't talk to the print server, etc.  However, I have a feeling that it's more the way they're set up to handle logins and profiles and the like than it is the OS itself.

Additionally, Keychain keeps popping up and asking for passwords when you use Safari, and the users are unable to turn it off.  Whenever it tries to load, Safari hangs for a good 20 seconds.

I've never had these problems on a single-user OSX machine, so it's gotta be the setup.  Even so, I'm not impressed.  Application performance isn't so great, either.

The lab's XP machines are always snappy, and the PCs that are running it were less expensive -- and that's my biggest gripe with Apple.  Equivalent hardware costs more because they have a monopoly on it.

As far as the video/photo/sound editing == Mac comment goes, it's a crock.  You can do every one of those things on a PC just as well as you can on a Mac depending on what software you use.  Mac does have some of the best software for those tasks, though - Logic and Final Cut Pro are pretty damned sweet compared to their PC equivalents.

I have been doing IT admin and support for the past 10 years, and both platforms have come a long way.  MacOS up to version 9 was just as unstable and poorly cobbled together as early versions of Windows, which didn't really get decent until Win2K, with Windows XP being by far the best version out so far.  Microsoft's server OS's are notoriously unstable and riddled with security holes (which can also be said of the desktop OSes, obviously) but there are security holes in OSX too.

Linux is not ready for prime time as a general-use desktop OS yet, and it never will be until OO.org or KOffice stop sucking and more software is available for the end user.  System administration can still be baffling as well.  And X needs to die off/be replaced with a decent windowing system.  As a server OS, it's great -- I've seen multi-year uptimes on Linux boxes that blow every other non-*nix OS out of the water.  The various propietary flavors of *nix can offer that kind of stability too, but then you're back to running on expensive hardware and paying for licenses again, which is what makes Linux so great -- it's free, and runs on almost anything.

Anyway, back on topic.  Overall, I think Windows is still head and shoulders above OSX simply due to the amount of software available on the platform (that you don't have to run in a virtual machine, which is a total kludge) and the choices available in the hardware to run it on.  Apple makes some great products, but they are targeted at a niche of the market that is willing to pay more for a clean design and "ease of use" (which is a myth these days).

[/quote]1) look for another phpbb running the same software and see if that's it.
2) can you get to the gstwins main page? if not, you probably can't access the server its on
3) try viewing the source of a page to see if its getting the page and just mucking up the rendering
4) user error? Wink[/quote]

I can connect to gstwin.com and all parts of it except the message board.
I don't recall all the details of the source but it didn't have the rendering; just the basics -- created by Front Page, called a script, etc., but no php code.
I tried the board at phpbb.com and got it. The gstwin.com board is the only board I've ever had any problem with.

Yea Dionsyus is right on the $$$ ... all the real info (money and medical records types not message boards and personal use crap) is on Unix derivatives ... I'd say it out numbers windoze 90% to 10. Also all firewalls (more like 99% in this case ) are Unix based. I know cos that's why I have a job ...  :lol:  ... a sucky, 80 hours a week, a piddly, nit picky, paper peddling job ...  :lol:
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: JazzzzzI've been thoroughly unimpressed with OSX in the lab environments at skewl.  All of the lab Macs are either the new flat panel iMacs or G5 towers, and they are incredibly slow to boot, frequently decide they can't talk to the print server, etc.  However, I have a feeling that it's more the way they're set up to handle logins and profiles and the like than it is the OS itself.

Well, OS X is a Unix, [almost] all of which are slow to boot. Why are the machines off? Once they fall asleep, booting will take more electricity than leaving them on over a weekend. Seriously.

Quote from: JazzzzzThe lab's XP machines are always snappy, and the PCs that are running it were less expensive -- and that's my biggest gripe with Apple.  Equivalent hardware costs more because they have a monopoly on it.

And the comment that made me post. Find a comparable machine when price shopping. Do not compare a G5 with a $499 Dell, the G5 costs more, but its a much better machine. Their laptops are an even better deal. Its like complaining an SGI Octane is expensive because it's $10k used, you get what you pay for.

Quote from: JazzzzzAs far as the video/photo/sound editing == Mac comment goes, it's a crock.  You can do every one of those things on a PC just as well as you can on a Mac depending on what software you use.  Mac does have some of the best software for those tasks, though - Logic and Final Cut Pro are pretty damned sweet compared to their PC equivalents.

Such a crock that you ended up agreeing with it ;)

Quote from: Jazzzzzbut there are security holes in OSX too.

Yes, but how many of them are in the class of "remote root exploits" that have gone unpached for months?

Quote from: JazzzzzSystem administration can still be baffling as well.  And X needs to die off/be replaced with a decent windowing system.

Nothing personal, but if administration is baffling, then you really have no business doing it. And what about X do you hate so much?

Quote from: Jazzzzz"ease of use" (which is a myth these days).

Why's that a myth? In that it doesn't exist? Doesn't matter? Everything is easy to use?

It doesn't matter what it is..they all break..they all have to be fixed....


...sorry I'm bitter about my job atm  :lol:  Seems like everyone with a PC has a horrible virus and ITS protocol here requires a clean install of the OS with this particular virus before they'll unblock the computer and allow internet access again, all the macs are having hardware issues, and our servers don't want to stay running

All of our PC workstations here run great.  :thumb:

Our MACS are pieces of crap, are out of date, and don't function very well at all  :nono: Fortunately they are just in the break room for staff to play on and go online with. We don't rely on them for anything anymore.

Our Novell and Windows servers rarely have to do much with except for routine maintenance and updates.

Now when it comes to USERS, that is where most of our problems are  :P :x

Quote from: seshadri_srinathYea Dionsyus is right on the $$$ ... all the real info (money and medical records types not message boards and personal use crap) is on Unix derivatives ... I'd say it out numbers windoze 90% to 10. Also all firewalls (more like 99% in this case ) are Unix based. I know cos that's why I have a job ...  :lol:  ... a sucky, 80 hours a week, a piddly, nit picky, paper peddling job ...  :lol:
Cool.
Srinath.

Sorry...I just can't let this go unchallenged...

I'd argue that much of the so-called "real info" you speak of is still on the mainframe...especially when you talk about financial services.  Of course, there are some exceptions...like Nasdaq (SQL Server).  As for other kinds of "real info", I'd invite you to find some actual market share data.  For non-mainframe databases, Windows has more than 50% of the market (with almost 50% of that being SQL Server, with the rest split between Oracle/IBM) [source: Gartner].  For enterprise apps, you might look at SAP on Windows (>60% market share) and SQL Server (>45%).  SQL Server has >25% of the OLAP market (more than Oracle and DB2 combined).  I'm not trying to say that UNIX doesn't have significant market share, but I do think you're overstating by a significant amount.

I'll save the debate over which platform is better/faster/cheaper for a different time.   :dunno:

Quote from: 97gs500eGoodbye "blue screen of death"
Goodbye crappy PC's  :nana:

what were you running, windows 95?  :P

have fun with your "cute" macs  :nana:

Quote from: PhaedrusNow when it comes to USERS, that is where most of our problems are  :P :x

yup, 90% of problems with computers are caused by something called User Error.

*NIX is the king of the Internet  :thumb:

Quote from: Phaedrus*NIX is the king of the Internet  :thumb:

So maybe Srinath is right...all the "real info" really is on UNIX:  the PORN!  :lol:

Quote from: JetSwing

Quote from: PhaedrusNow when it comes to USERS, that is where most of our problems are  :P :x

yup, 90% of problems with computers are caused by something called User Error.

Which is the reason Macs protect themselves from their users. Or rather, why they're so easy to use. But, I personally think everyone should be running Debian on an iBook. If only broadcom would release the specs for that damned airport card.  :guns:

Quote from: JetSwing

Quote from: PhaedrusNow when it comes to USERS, that is where most of our problems are  :P :x

yup, 90% of problems with computers are caused by something called User Error.

Yup PBKAC -- Problem Between Keyboard And Chair.  And i know they make windows emulators for MACs, I'm actually talking about installing a windows OS onto MAC hardware, cause after MAC switches to their new intel chip, the hardware in a MAC is going to be PC hardware.  MAC is getting away from proprietary hardware.