GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

ELBOWS :o  :o  :o  :o

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/verstft/hon-cbr600-97-bikepics-10245.jpg

Jonah

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez, that is friggin nuts.

The only way I'm getting that low is lowsiding :thumb: Too bad I've been there and done that :x

-BigTwin-

I was so low once I was able to drag both knees at the same time  :mrgreen:

i don't get it though, i.. when going around a sharp turn at speed, say a left curve... will lean my bike left and kinda move my body right to stay more upright.  This keeps your center of gravity and weight over the wheels more.  Feels natural to me and i can get my bike as far over as it can possibly go...

Still, cool pic.

Quote from: nisus1i don't get it though, i.. when going around a sharp turn at speed, say a left curve... will lean my bike left and kinda move my body right to stay more upright.

That's counterproductive.  You can go around turns faster if you lean into the turn.  You and the bike are a unit, so you can alter the center of gravity of the unit effectively by changing your relationship to the wheelbase.  The tires' traction, even the stockers on the GS, will hold past the point where you scrape things.  Hanging off into the turn allows you to corner faster without scraping.

This is particularly evident when riding a bike that scrapes earlier, like my Breva or my old F650.  I could get 10-20mph extra out of a corner by not scraping the centerstand via hanging off on the latter.

Well, november last year I once dragged my whole body  :o . The VFR750 is still recovering, but that's because I'm a bit lazy too  :oops:  and haven't  repaired it yet.

Seriously, I think the guy in the picture is down, lowside. If he's got some speed, he lost all tire tracion.

Precession is a marvelous thing... and those tires are sticky.

I'm just impressed that there's nothing scraping that far over.  On the SV, the pegs go when you're not much more than 45 degrees, I'd guess.

Quote from: StevenESeriously, I think the guy in the picture is down, lowside.

He's gotta be...

what school should I go to learn to lean like that?
I want to perform such turn in the middle of traffic (intersection) to impress all the car drivers and feel great about myself.

:thumb:

Is it just me, or should the headline read "Dragging a knee not enough for you? How about this?" It reads "Dragging an elbow...", and then says "how about this?" and points to a guy dragging his elbow. Huh...?  :dunno:

Dave  :cheers:

I'm amazed he has any grip at all leaning that far over - it looks like he's almost riding the sidewall of the tire. :shrug:

looks like (http://www.youart.co.jp/dtp/appli/appliimage/photoshop.gif) to me  :roll:

I remember watching a race several years ago and you could hear them scraping the fairings. These were the 996 Ducs.

Quote from: nisus1i don't get it though, i.. when going around a sharp turn at speed, say a left curve... will lean my bike left and kinda move my body right to stay more upright.  This keeps your center of gravity and weight over the wheels more.  Feels natural to me and i can get my bike as far over as it can possibly go...

Still, cool pic.

That's preferred only on slow turns- ie when you can still turn the handle bars.  Leaning away from the turn while counter- steering will get you in trouble at high speeds.  By hanging off the bike more (leaning into the turn), you can change the CG of the bike and keep the bike more upright while making the turn.  This keeps the suspension active and useful and keeps more rubber on the road.

Check out Lee Parks "Total Control" for more detailed info.

Quote from: Hi-TThis keeps the suspension active and useful and keeps more rubber on the road.

Check out Lee Parks "Total Control" for more detailed info.

I agree totally, but maybe this guy is doing a lousy job then, because the bike isn't upright and there sure isn't much rubber on the road  :lol: .

Btw, Lee Parks his book rocks! Another good one is the one written by Nick Ienatsch.

It's real.  OR at least, that photo's really on the cover of Roadracing World, October 2001 (http://www.roadracingworld.com/magazine/back-issues/?ISSUE_MONTH=October&ISSUE_YEAR=2001).

Quote from: aaronstjIt's real.  OR at least, that photo's really on the cover of Roadracing World, October 2001.

From the bottom of that page :

QuoteOn the Front Cover: You want extreme lean angle? We've got it, from the World Superbike race at Brands Hatch. But rider Tadayuki Okada didn't end up on two wheels, as seen here. Photos by Sports Photography.

So...did he in fact spill? Or are they just bad writers (also referring to my previous post)?

DC :cheers:

I don't know, I haven't seen inside the issue, but it does sound like he went down.

look at were he is looking... hes looking straight at the road in front of him, head down. That picturs was taken at almost the exact moment he lost grip.

His foot is coming off the peg. He's a goner.

Quote from: RVertigo

Quote from: StevenESeriously, I think the guy in the picture is down, lowside.

He's gotta be...

Undeniably.  It's all over but the crying...

Quote from: nisus1i don't get it though, i.. when going around a sharp turn at speed, say a left curve... will lean my bike left and kinda move my body right to stay more upright.  This keeps your center of gravity and weight over the wheels more.  Feels natural to me and i can get my bike as far over as it can possibly go...

Still, cool pic.

like others have said. you want the BIKE as upright as possible and you achieve this by hanging off INTO the turn. this puts more of the meat of the rear tire on the ground, instead of the edges of the tire giving you more grip. thats why racers and track addicts do it-to go faster around a bend.

You are riding like someone rides a dirtbike, or riding slow maneuvers. get your body forward and inside the bike. look at my avatar.

Nick Iensatch's book is "Sport Riding Techniques" and is a GREAT book.

Quote from: pantablolook at my avatar.

sorry, I meant this:

it's like they say life on two wheels begins at 45 degrees.

As much as I dislike Yates..........

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v419/Goosedog/Others%20bikes/yates.jpg)

Quote from: pantablolike others have said. you want the BIKE as upright as possible and you achieve this by hanging off INTO the turn. this puts more of the meat of the rear tire on the ground, instead of the edges of the tire giving you more grip. thats why racers and track addicts do it-to go faster around a bend.

... I understand the words, but I don't quite understand the physics.  Assuming one rider is directly in line with his bike, and the bike is at 45 degrees to the ground, how does another rider hanging off their bike with the exact same lean turn any faster?

Is it just a matter of beginning a turn faster by not having to shift all your weight around a centre of gravity when pushing your bike over entering a turn?

I've made note of your dead tree reference Pablo, but do you have an online (read: free) one?  :)

C

(Not that I've ever ridden a motorcycle before, but...)

It seems to me like the idea of leaning way over while keeping your bike up is that you can can center of gravity down while keeping more tire contact.  The dude in the photo has quite a patch of tire on the ground.  If he had is bike all the way over with him, he's be riding on the sidewall (or not at all).

Quote from: aaronstj(Not that I've ever ridden a motorcycle before, but...)

It seems to me like the idea of leaning way over while keeping your bike up is that you can can center of gravity down while keeping more tire contact.  The dude in the photo has quite a patch of tire on the ground.  If he had is bike all the way over with him, he's be riding on the sidewall (or not at all).

Shifting your body weight around doesn't affect your tire's contact patches, only physically leaning the bike over does that.  If he was sitting up on his seat he could still lean the bike over just as far as the knee-draggers in the photos above, no?

I'm anxiously awaiting one of our track star comrades to straighten me out.

C

Right, but by leaning his body over, he lowers his center of gravity, so he can make a tighter turn.

Interesting (from a thread  (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=146685)which used to involve the guy-hanging-off-a-toilet and guy-hanging-off-a-minivan pics):

QuoteNow, many think that this is so they can turn harder. This is not the case though. Really, this is so they know how much farther they have to lean before they lose traction and start dragging something important.

The knee is constant length and they know how close they are to the ground based on their knee dragging.

This makes sense to me, is there any more to it than this?

C

Quote from: cayInteresting (from a thread which used to involve the guy-hanging-off-a-toilet and guy-hanging-off-a-minivan pics):

QuoteNow, many think that this is so they can turn harder. This is not the case though. Really, this is so they know how much farther they have to lean before they lose traction and start dragging something important.

The knee is constant length and they know how close they are to the ground based on their knee dragging.

This makes sense to me, is there any more to it than this?

C

ok ...going to make it simple... while driving in straight line hang off left side of bike... now if you were to look at yourself head on you have a new center of gravity causing the bike to be more pitched to the left (right if from riders perspective) yet still you drive in a straight line.... so when leaning into a corner you have now given yourself MORE lean angle vs staying in the center of the bike. you are literally standing the bike more upright while in a corner... succesfully increasing the distance between your contact patch and the edge of the tire ...

Aerospike - I got my undergrad degree in Computer Science and Physics and it still took half a dozen readings of your post to get to the point where I think I might understand what you're saying.  I feel the need to go draw some diagrams.  :)  

'04gs500f - That's a very interesting point too, have you noticed that you can  take a turn significantly more vertical when hanging off your bike (all other things being equal, of course)?  Damnit, now I *really* feel the need to go draw some diagrams!

Thanks, gentlemen.  This gives me another excuse to avoid packing this morning.

Cay

Hm...I've been told by some that I drag my a$$ through turns... does that count as an impressive riding technique?

I was kind of in denial...with the whole elbow thing...but after seeing the Aaron Yates pictures.....well...  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?

BTW....according to the lee parks book...and keith code....hanging off more allows you to take a turn while keeping the bike's lean angle more upright...which equates more traction..etc.....

Jonah

does this help?
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/davipu/leanangle.jpg)

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

hahahahahhahahaha I can't stop laughing.............

Them are some big wheels.  :lol:

You can lean almost that far, though.

The owner of the dealership where I got my bike had his GSXR on display. The stator cover is ground down from dragging it through turns.

And before you ask, no, it's not from a lowside. The grinding is too regular, plus it's at an angle consistant with someone leaning instead of the bike sliding on it's side.

I've always imagined the effects of hanging off like counterbalancing a small sailboat against the wind. The bike in order to counter the centrifical force throwing it out from the turn must  lean against it or high side. A sailboater must hang out farther to counter the wind against the sail or capsize.

As with a sailboat, if you throw more weight opposite the force throwing the bike outward, then the bike ends up leaning less  into the turn to balance itself.

I think I just confused myself, but there is a visual in there somewhere that makes sense.....

Quote from: cayhave you noticed that you can  take a turn significantly more vertical when hanging off your bike (all other things being equal, of course)?  Damnit, now I *really* feel the need to go draw some diagrams!

Thanks, gentlemen.  This gives me another excuse to avoid packing this morning.

Cay

Quote from: '04gs500f

you are literally standing the bike more upright while in a corner... succesfully increasing the distance between your contact patch and the edge of the tire ...

are you asking me or pointing out what i said? :?

Quote from: cayhave you noticed that you can  take a turn significantly more vertical when hanging off your bike (all other things being equal, of course)?

Quote from: '04gs500fare you asking me or pointing out what i said? :?

I was asking you -- can you take a turn considerably faster when hanging off your bike (versus staying in line with it) or is it really just to squeeze that last little bit out of your traction?

Thanks again,

C

Quote from: cay

Quote from: cayhave you noticed that you can  take a turn significantly more vertical when hanging off your bike (all other things being equal, of course)?

Quote from: '04gs500fare you asking me or pointing out what i said? :?

I was asking you -- can you take a turn considerably faster when hanging off your bike (versus staying in line with it) or is it really just to squeeze that last little bit out of your traction?

Thanks again,

C

yes you can take a corner faster when increasing your lean angle