Rode the gs to work this morning for the first time. Yay! 25-ish miles, avoided the freeway. :)
1-So, when I am just cruising along, say 50 mph, where should the bike be revving. Like 4-5k? Say, 5th gear?
2-When I'm slowing for a red light, I should be downshifting as I slow, right? Do I have to let out the clutch between gears, or can I just skip right through? (I have been skipping right through, maybe letting out a little to slow down)
3-My hands are small. I have trouble opering the clutch and blinker at the same time. I shortened the clutch throw. Any other suggestions?
4-Got my pinkslip in the mail. I bought my bike with 911 miles on it but the pink shows 3500. WTF? Is this just a typo or something?
If you are "just cruising" there is not harm in being in 6th so long as the bike is not lugging, if you may need to accelerate quickly be in 5th or ready to drop to 5th, you will soon get a feel for it.
Approaching a junction, you can downshift through several gears at a time without declutching each time, but you won't do it in one movement, pull in the clutch and tap your way down. If there is plenty of time for deceleration drop down through the box engaging the gears as needed, generally in traffic tapping or bulk downshifting works best.
I think 50mph is 4000rpms in 5th gear, thats okay.
You don't have to, but it's a good idea to ensure that you will shift into first before you stop.
Do one at a time. Seriously, that's what I do.
I think it is a good idea to engage the clutch with each down shift if you can, like if you have a lot of time to stop. Let's say you are slowing, pull in the clutch and shift way down to first. Your little hand slips off of the clutch cable breaks and all the sudden, your in 1st and your still going pretty fast! Yikes! But I don't know. I do it one at a time, too like Scratch said.
2. I'll second the shifting down one gear at a time. The key is to match the revs as you downshift so that the rear wheel doesn't lock up. Like Jake D says, if you're in too low a gear and your hand slips off the clutch :o :o :o It does take a little practice to get it right. Just decelerate until the engine RPM reaches about 2500rpm, then cluch, shift down a gear, release cluch smoothly, and repeat as you decelerate. After a while it will become 2nd nature and you won't even have to think about it. This way you always know that you're in the correct gear (ie. when approaching a turn).
Hmmm, I don't usually bother with compression braking all the way through first if I am coming to a complete stop. I will downshift and compression brake through second (if I have the time and space to do it), but after second, I just ride the clutch and front/rear brake to a complete stop. I usually shift into first right before i take my feet off the pegs to put them on the ground.... though sometimes I stop first and then put the bike into first gear.
I'm not a big fan of neutral at the light because somtimes my bike likes to go into neutral, and sometimes it doesn't. More often than not... when it does go into neutral easily, then I have to half-engage the clutch to get it back in to first gear. Not much of a problem once you get used to it... but a lot to think about if you're a noobie with a car or two behind you at a traffic light.
You should always be in gear when coming to a stop because you don't know if the Lincoln behind you is going to punt you into next week.
Honestly, downshifting and engine braking through each and every gear has always seemed like overkill to me. I understand that doing so in a particular way results in technically perfect braking, but a) we're just talking about riding around town, not trying to have to most efficient track run possible; and b) perfect technique is complex and until you've got lots of experience (more than me) and can do it instinctively, it will take a fair amount of your attention and concentration. Given the title of this thread I'm not sure I'd advise someone that it's what they should do every day. I'd rather use imperfect technique and keep my attention on road conditions and vehicles around me.
My imperfect-but-works-fine-in-everyday-trafic-and-is-easy-for-noobs technique: when approaching a stop in a non-emergency, engine brake with whatever gear I'm in and when it gets to the point where you should downshift, just pull in the clutch and use the brakes the rest of the way.
Of course you should be downshifting while braking so that you can get back on the throttle if you need to; for me this just means being in the right gear given my current indicated speed. I'll have it in 5th gear at 50mph and above, 4th from 40 to 50, 3rd from 30 to 40, 3nd from 20 to 30, and 1st below 20.
I just feel more in control when using the engine to brake. If you just pull in the clutch and hit the brakes, it makes me feel like when I'm going downhill in a car in neutral: not in control. :o
D :cheers:
Fair enough. When I was growing up my parents had cars with automatic transmissions, so for me braking always meant just hitting the brakes. I'm sure that affects how I ride.
I'm not going to tell you how to ride, but I have made a suggestion that may help.
Quote from: miloMy imperfect-but-works-fine-in-everyday-trafic-and-is-easy-for-noobs technique.
This is what I call the beginning of a bad habit.
This is what I call doing the right thing:
Quote from: miloOf course you should be downshifting while braking so that you can get back on the throttle if you need to; for me this just means being in the right gear given my current indicated speed. I'll have it in 5th gear at 50mph and above, 4th from 40 to 50, 3rd from 30 to 40, 3nd from 20 to 30, and 1st below 20.
I find it interesting to be in the same post.
I just keep the clutch in, and click down a gear as my speed makes it more appropriate. For example, I'm in 6th gear at 60, I might click down a gear every 10MPH I brake, while still holding the clutch. If I decide to take off again while I'm at 20MPH, I'm already in 2nd gear, and I go for it. It's a lot easier braking when you're not trying to drop the clutch in 5 times. I agree with everyone who says don't drop right to first beacuse if you get off the clutch it won't be pretty.
I'm a nub too and I'm just now trying to figure out what to do while decelarationg. In my MSF course they taught us how to shift but nothing about engine braking and when or how to use it. I get the concept of it and I'm training myself to use it rather than the brakes while I'm out crusing around but when I'm driving around town I find it difficult to keep doing. On most roads I'll be in 3rd going along at about 50-60km/h and if I see traffic lining up ahead of me and I don't have anyone riding my ass I'll shift into 2nd, cruise towards the traffic, pull in the clutch and glide until I've slowed down enough and pretty close to the car infront of me and then I'll shift into first and leave the clutch in while I start to brake, then I'll stop of course. But a lot of the time I find that as a new driver I'm alittle nervous about all the cars around me and instead of engine braking I'll just pull in the clutch, glide along and as I slow down I'll shift down to 1st without letting up on the clutch, and then I'll start to apply the brakes. It works for now but I don't want to hurt my bike or develope bad habits.
Remember that the cage behind you has no way of knowing that you're slowing down with engine braking rather than the brakes. My MSF course strongly suggested getting in the habit of tapping the brakes to start in order to show your brake light to the vehicle in back of you.
It'll reduce the chances of getting punted by that Lincoln if he know's you're there.
-D
Quote from: Chuck...don't drop right to first beacuse if you get off the clutch it won't be pretty.
Don't let off the clutch. Is there that many people who have this problem of having their clutches slip out of their hands? Or, are we not practicing enough? Finger strength?
1st thing when downshifting be sure you've slowed down enough in the gear that you are in before you downshift.
Typically, I downshift around 4000rpm.2nd: When you have shifted into the next lower gear, feather the clutch.
This means let it out slowly until you can feel the motor actually dragging you down, then
don't let it out anymore.
Only let it out partially. This also gives you the option to either let the clutch out fully and get back on the gas, or to pull the clutch in and downshift again. Of course, now, you will be adding a little throttle to match revs when you feather the clutch, but you will also be on the brakes if you are truly coming to a stop. If you are anticpating the light to change, or in some other state of limbo, you should be going slow enough, in a gear that is low enough, and you are ready to act (or react).
Quote from: scratch
Don't let off the clutch. Is there that many people who have this problem of having their clutches slip out of their hands? Or, are we not practicing enough? Finger strength?
I don't think anyone is worried about butter fingers. All I said is don't click down to first gear at 60MPH. Say the reason you did this expires (for example, red turns to green). You may forget that you've already downshifted and be sad.
So my point is whether or not you're engine braking down to a stop, you should always be in the gear that's appropriate for the speed you're going.
Quote from: kwong2001
95% of the time i'll sit at a stop light in 1st gear, only exception is if it will be a long light and I can see the light changing to give me a little warning. See, my bike sometimes does not want to go into gear so I have to rock it back and forth, which can add a few precious seconds.
Ah, you should try the trick my roommate taught me on our second time out! I had the same problem at the very first traffic light we went through.... -When the bike doesn't want to go into first gear, let the clutch out *
slowly* and simultaenously push down on the gear shift. By time the clutch has been let out 1/4-1/3 of the way, the bike should very gracefully drop into first gear. Problem solved without rocking back and forth (which isn't practical if there are a bunch of cars waiting behind you).
Quote from: ChuckI don't think anyone is worried about butter fingers. All I said is don't click down to first gear at 60MPH. Say the reason you did this expires (for example, red turns to green). You may forget that you've already downshifted and be sad.
So my point is whether or not you're engine braking down to a stop, you should always be in the gear that's appropriate for the speed you're going.
Sorry, I misunderstood, I had to go back and re-read everybody's post; now I understand that everybody is on the same page.
Yeah, for some reason this thread is becoming confusing. For the sake of clarity, what Scratch called the right thing:
Quote from: scratchThis is what I call doing the right thing:
Quote from: miloOf course you should be downshifting while braking so that you can get back on the throttle if you need to; for me this just means being in the right gear given my current indicated speed. I'll have it in 5th gear at 50mph and above, 4th from 40 to 50, 3rd from 30 to 40, 3nd from 20 to 30, and 1st below 20.
I meant that when I do that I have the clutch lever pulled in the whole time I'm shifting down.
I.e. I thought the whole debate here was over whether to engage and disengage the clutch five times when coming to a stop, or just to disengage it once. I, as a noob, do the latter.
There is also the question of whether you'd rather put more strain on your engine and chain or on your brake pads. Brake pads are cheaper and easier to replace than an engine and/or chain. (Not that everyday riding will really threaten any of them...)
I say pull the front brake really hard without locking and do a stoppie.
the car behind you will get the idea. :thumb:
Some other rider once commented that brakes wear out faster than engines. That's why he used the engine to brake as much as possible instead of just riding the brakes when stopping.
Suppose you are getting off the highway and coming down a ramp with a stoplight at the end. It's red, so you start to brake and pull the clutch, click 5 times into first roll toward the light. Now, half way to the stop it turns green. Now you have to figure out what gear to shift back up into, which, for most people, probably requires staring at the speedo and doing a bit of math.
OTOH, suppose you were letting the clutch out and engine braking with each downshift. Tada! You're already in the right gear and can just give it some gas and go. That's why I let out the clutch each time.
The same thing happens in town, except it's 3rd-1st and not 6th-1st.
If I have to make an emergency stop, I"ll just pull and brake as much as I can, then worry about getting into first later. However, if I did also use the engine to brake me, I'd stop even faster, but that's too mentally complex for me.
Quote from: miloI meant that when I do that I have the clutch lever pulled in the whole time I'm shifting down.
I.e. I thought the whole debate here was over whether to engage and disengage the clutch five times when coming to a stop, or just to disengage it once. I, as a noob, do the latter.
Oooh! (see this is how you earn a title) And, this is a bad habit, grasshopper. You must unlearn what you have learned. I'm only trying to help.
RRitterson gives an excellent example!
Wow, thanks for all the insight on this one. Yeah, in MSF they mention engine breaking, but as we never got above 2nd gear in my MSF, downshifting remained a mystery.
I have done the accidentally letting the clutch out while going 30ish mph after shifitng in into first (I stomped too hard on the shifter I think). The gs let me know I am a noob with a screech of the front tire and a pop into neutral.
It does make sense to slowly click down as you decelerate, to be ready to take off again, while using the breaks also so your breaklights go on.
I usually just let off the gas apply a little brake using both the engine and brakes to slow, then downshift when it "feels right". feeling in the seat rather than looking at the tach, I dont spend a lot of time looking at the tach and speedo trying to figure out if I'min the right gear. after riding for a while the vibration of the engine and the feel in the seat will tell you what to do. each stop is different, if there is a lot of gravel/dirt I use the rear brake a little more then normal, cars around I usually use more front brake (in a panic situation Ive found its easier to gas it out of an accident situation that way) If im out in the middle of no where putt-n around I might just pull in the clutch and coast to a stop. basically every stop is different
Quote from: kwong2001Quote from: TarzanBoyQuote from: kwong2001
95% of the time i'll sit at a stop light in 1st gear, only exception is if it will be a long light and I can see the light changing to give me a little warning. See, my bike sometimes does not want to go into gear so I have to rock it back and forth, which can add a few precious seconds.
Ah, you should try the trick my roommate taught me on our second time out! I had the same problem at the very first traffic light we went through.... -When the bike doesn't want to go into first gear, let the clutch out *slowly* and simultaenously push down on the gear shift. By time the clutch has been let out 1/4-1/3 of the way, the bike should very gracefully drop into first gear. Problem solved without rocking back and forth (which isn't practical if there are a bunch of cars waiting behind you).
hmmm, i'll have to try that next time :thumb:
My bike had this problemk too. After sitting in neutral for a period of time, you have to work the clutch a little to get it to engage into first. Just squeeze the clutch in, let it out, squeeze in again and shift into first, then head off!
Also, milo, I'd suggest that you release the clutch at least a little bit in every gear so you can get into the habit of doing it regularly. It isn't THAT much extra work :lol:. If you downshift a lot and suddenly you're in a low gear at a high speed, the rear wheel can literally hop. I've experienced that. Rear wheel hop is SCARY.
I tend to do what ktrim does, from 3rd to 1st anyways, and as I feel myself slowing down to a suitable speed and I can feel the rpms dropping I shift down into 2nd and roll along in second until I'm just about ready to stop then I drop into 1st and brake. I'm goign to start feathering the front brake from now on though, just to get that light on, it'd come on before the brake engages any wouldn't it? I've never really looked back to see lol.
You can adjust the rear brake light switch to activate the brakelamp before the rear brake grabs.