I'm a newbie looking at bikes to purchase and have narrowed my choices down to two. Obviously those are the GS500F and the SV650S. I just have a couple of quick questions if anybody would be willing to answer them...I would appreciate it. My biggest concern with the GS500 is that it's not water-cooled. I know that it's supposed to extend the life of the engine and is overall better for it and also lowers maintenance. Has anyone had any problems whatsoever with this? Fuel injection is another issue I have. The SV has it and the GS does not. Is that any kind of problem that I should be worried about? What would be the positives and negatives about these bikes? I've done a lot of research and know what I think, but maybe there is something else I haven't thought of or come across that an experienced rider of these bikes would know. I appreciate any info that one could give...thanks in advance.
Nate
specifically-FI bikes have a bit of throttle lag and can be snatchy from off-throttle where carbureted bikes are always smooth. good for learning throttle control.
Generally-the gs500 is a better first bike and a better stepping stone to bigger bikes. The lack of power will force you to become a better rider and not give you HP to hide your poor form behind.
Air cooled or water cooled is meaningless to a new rider, except if you drop the bike and damage the radiator-then you're not riding home.
Quote from: pantabloGenerally-the gs500 is a better first bike and a better stepping stone to bigger bikes. The lack of power will force you to become a better rider and not give you HP to hide your poor form behind
Correct me if I'm wrong, but by this I think pantablo means that you should learn how to properly shift gears (up-shift *and* downshift) and not only learn what gear is appropriate for a given condition/situation... but also become adept enough to know what approx gear your bike is in based on the speed, tach, and available torque. You can fudge this with a stronger bike that will give you more torque even when you're geared too high.
It probably wouldnt' hurt to get an insurance quote on the two bikes. What years are you looking at? The SV is 2001-2006. The GS500 goes as far back as 1989 (unless you want fairings, then its 2004-2006).
As for fuel injection.... as a new rider, its not something that I would worry about. First gear on a fuel-inected bike is trickier to learn thottle control on than a carbureted bike (bigger reaction to minute changes).... but throttle-control is something you'll have to learn either way.
I just got back from a trip across WA state. I got stuck in 3 different traffic jams (It was Friday) and I was concerned that my gs might overheat. The longest traffic jam was about 45 minutes, never got above 20mph, and I had no problems with overheating. Oh yeah, it was a fairly warm day (for Washington) - low to mid 80's.
Quote from: pantablospecifically-FI bikes have a bit of throttle lag and can be snatchy from off-throttle where carbureted bikes are always smooth. good for learning throttle control.
I would disagree. I've owned three FI bikes and a number of carbed. My carbed SV650 had the touchiest throttle I've ever owned. I've ridden an FI SV650, and it was _very_ smooth - much smoother than my FI Breva, a little smoother than my FI F650. My carbed GS, pre-rejet, was jerkier and had more lag than all three, but was not as touchy as the SV. So carbed vs. FI really depends on the FI system. Modern FI systems, like the current SV has (and the current GSX-R) tend to be pretty dang nice.
That being said, get the GS500. You'll learn to use the powerband, it's delightfully flickable, it's easy to DIY the maintenance, and I pretty much guarantee the air-cooled will never be an issue, overheating-wise. They built these things.
If it's your first bike, consider a used nekkind GS. Nekkid is good for first bikes, since they take drops better, and if you do decide you want another bike, you won't lose as much (you might not lose anything, if you make a good deal).
Quote from: TarzanBoy
What years are you looking at? The SV is 2001-2006. The GS500 goes as far back as 1989 (unless you want fairings, then its 2004-2006).
actually.....the SV is 99-current......
99-02 are condsidered 1st gen....they are carbed....
03+ are considered 2nd gen.....they are f/i.....
there are actually more differences then that....but that's all that really applies to this post.....
...additionally....you can pick up an r6 throttle tube for the 2nd gen SV that will greatly improve throttle response.....
oh....and just fyi....I have an 03 sv650s.....and I'm considering picking up *another* gs500 sometime in the near future.....they really are good bikes.....cheap to own and maintain.....I've owned 2 and regret selling both.....
The thing is the better you get at riding period the more fun riding will be no matter what the bike. So what if it takes a little bit to warm up. it takes about that long to put your gear on anyway. A couple of months ago I thought I would eventually get an sv but the more and more I ride the gs the more I love it. RG is right start off witha nekkid gs, you will drop the bike, and they are very forgiving- no plastic. The gs is also very simple mechanical wise so you can learn how the thing works while you learn how to ride it and trust me you will appreciate it more.
Milo has the right idea. I am generalizing based on my limited experience on different bikes regarding FI. But there are many, many more reasons to start on the gs.
Quote from: TarzanBoyQuote from: pantabloGenerally-the gs500 is a better first bike and a better stepping stone to bigger bikes. The lack of power will force you to become a better rider and not give you HP to hide your poor form behind
Correct me if I'm wrong, but by this I think pantablo means that you should learn how to properly shift gears (up-shift *and* downshift) and not only learn what gear is appropriate for a given condition/situation... but also become adept enough to know what approx gear your bike is in based on the speed, tach, and available torque. You can fudge this with a stronger bike that will give you more torque even when you're geared too high.
actually, thats not it. What I mean is that when a new rider has HP at their disposal they will tend to make up time on the straights that they lose by being slow in the turns. Mainly this refers to twisties and track riding. On the gs500 if you want to keep up you need to learn to ride using more corner speed, which will teach you how to corner better because you rely on momentum to keep a good pace going. If you start on a gs and fancy the canyons it will force you to become a smoother rider (smoothness will get you through corners quicker) and a faster rider. Also, the gs500 steering feels much lighter than the sv steering, particularly at higher speeds (probably due to the larger wheel/tire setup the sv uses).
Roadstergal-I am thinking of one situation specifically regarding the snatchiness of FI bikes and that is when you've just leaned into a corner and are cracking the throttle open. My experience on carbureted bikes (sv650s, Superhawk, duc 900ss, gs500) compared to my FI experience (600rr, R6, R1) leads me to say that, but ultimately there is too much variation in the different FI setups and carbureted setups, as well as my being at different levels of experience when riding the various bikes for me to have spoken out of turn like that.
With more experience, throttle control is a non issue (including any snatchiness that might be present in a given bike).
My first motorcycle is my '04 GS500F. I bought it brand new, 0 miles on it. I absolutely LOVE it. No doubt. However, if I could do it all over again....
I would have bought an older, used, naked GS500/E and paid cash for it. Rode it around a season, and then bought a bigger bike brand new of my choosing.
But anything you get, I am sure you will LOVE. I mean, come on, it's a motorcycle!! :thumb: :thumb:
Ditto on the paying cash part. Owning free and clear is the way to go... especially if you even *think* you might want to upgrade within a year or two. I don't think I'll ever buy a new car, and definitely not ever a new bike.
When i first decided to learn to ride, my roommate gave me the impression that i'd be able to find a halfway decent beater-bike for around $1000. He also said that I should look into a Buell Blast.
Quite a bit of googling, cycletrader.com searching and classified ad scanning taught me that
1-Buell Blasts are shoddily constructed lemons, 2-The only bike you're likely to find for ~$1,000 are low-t-o-mid displacement cruiser style bikes from the early 80's, or half-destroyed salvage titles that need at least another $1500 of work/parts put into them.
My buddy got the SV650 S and I got the GS500F, both new this year.
Don't get me wrong, I love the GS and have a great time on it. I have a feeling it would be great on any bike, however to your question.
1. I ride my buddies SV for fun every once in a while and the seating is more aggressive, however I like it once you get used to it.
2. You might out grow the GS, there is a noticable power difference between his bike and mine, even though I rejetted and put a K&N in he will still outrun me.
In my opinion, get the SV. If you want fairing (which I wouldn't add to the SV, it looks sick w/o it) you cna get a few different options and there are plenty more aftermarket parts for the SV.
You're going to have fun with both for sure, however I'd go for the SV there is less chance you'll grow out out of it. Just my opinion, so those who disagree feel free but don't blast me for it.
DMac: You're suck a freakin' idiot!!!
Just kidding.
I agree to a certain extent. I love my GS, but I am eyeing that SV all the time.
And the Duc Monster 620 Dark. Oh, and the Z1000.
B12.
Kind of like the Honda 919.
Both my girlfriend and I are newbie riders. She has a 01 SV650, me an 89 GS (yes, my girlfriend has a more powerful bike than me...). So, things we have noticed...
1. Her bike has been dropped by both of us (I'm 5'7", she is 5'5") while the GS has never been near the pavement. The SV is big, and seems a lot heavier as a result.
2. We both thought that it felt like we were on an MSF bike when we were onthe GS. Small, maneuverable, comfortable, and it has the speed to do anything I want it to do. Her bike was a bit challenging at first, now is very comfy.
Air cooled hasn't been a problem. She just replaced her radiator due t a track day incident. $$OW!!!$$
Both bikes are great, we learned on both (as well as an '83 Nighthawk 650) and all the bikes we played with we decent for beginners. The biggest difference is what we paid for first bikes. She paid $2000 and that is a steal for an SV. I bought my bike for nothing but put $600 into it to bring it up to speed.... All depends on how long you want to have the bike. I will likely buy another bike in a year or two and keep the GS as a toy...
Both great bikes- gs is more of a learners bike- but I could say you could learn responsibly on an SV.
The SV is lighter, better brakes, bigger rubber, 2x the horsies and torque. The FI is great- but the tunability will cost you more (Power Commander will set you back $200). After market is better but more pricey.
The GS is easy to maintain, cheap to mod, and cheap to fix (like when you drop it.) The seat is wider and easier on the boys over long rides.
Fill in the _______ on insurance and gear.
If you find a great deal on the SV- do it. But I don't regret starting on the GS- and I'll always recommend it as a first.
I looked around at the SV's and the GS's while shopping for my first bike (last month), and decided on a GS. I took the MSF after never riding before and did great. I got the GS (a nice looking '96 for $1750). I was SURE I wouldn't drop it, and sure enough on my second trip out I did just that while turning into a gas station at .002 mph. I've almost dropped it numerous other times but the lightness of the GS saved me. One time in particular I JUST barely saved it before it went down. If it had weighed a tiny bit more I wouldn't have been able to catch it. Its not that I'm not coordinated, its just you don't know how to handle a bike until you do it (maneuvering and slow speed handling - even moving it when its off takes getting used to!). Another reason to get a good looking naked used GS, my drop didn't do anything (engine case already scratched a little), I would've cried if I dropped a $4k SV and scratched it up!!! The GS is a good compromise between a old cheap cruiser that you might be half embarrased riding at times (or at least not as proud of) and a big fancy cool looking bike that you eventually want to have. It's just like the first car you got behind the wheel of... did you have a brand new Vette or did you have something a bit more sensible (not saying the SV is a Vette, but you get my point!!)
Quote from: PhaedrusMy first motorcycle is my '04 GS500F. I bought it brand new, 0 miles on it. I absolutely LOVE it. No doubt. However, if I could do it all over again....
I would have bought an older, used, naked GS500/E and paid cash for it. Rode it around a season, and then bought a bigger bike brand new of my choosing.
But anything you get, I am sure you will LOVE. I mean, come on, it's a motorcycle!! :thumb: :thumb:
I agree with him 100%. Get a older one, ride it for a while, and make your mind up what you really want.
I also bought a new 04 GS500F for my first "street bike" because people told me it was a good starter bike, which it is. I looked for a older GS and none were around here local and I wanted something I did not have to wrench on. So I bought a new one, now I got to wait until next spring/summer to move up to a bigger bike.(600 Katana or SV650S)
Thanks for all of the input. I appreciate all of the information that you all have provided. I think I'm gonna go get the ZX-6R now....nope, not quite...i wish. I found a GS today and was able to sit on it and I like the way it felt. I also sat on a Ninja 500R and I really liked the way that felt as well. I'm not as fond of the styling in the Ninja as I am with the GS500, but I think it did fit me a little better. Does anybody have experience on the Ninja? It might be the best of both worlds for me in that it's a pretty good starter bike and it's water-cooled. Thanks for the help...
Nate
Dude, do you live in Panama or something? Or, do you plan to just sit with the bike in neutral and rev it to 9k rpms for hours at a time? If not, the liquid-cooled/air-cooled thing really won't be an issue. As was said above: if these bike had a tendency to overheat, Suzi wouldn't make them this way.
Off-topic: What's up with Kawasaki designers anyway? Hate to say it on a GS board, but the 500R spanks our bike in just about every category, except looks -- and they're cheaper! Can you imagine what would happen if Kawi sold a 500R that didn't look like the result of a drunken one night stand between a Nighthawk and a DeLorean? :o
I've had two air-cooled GSs and now commute and run errands on an air-cooled Breva. Air-cooled is fine. Don't sweat it.
Just recently I got to ride a older 500 Ninja. Yea It is quicker and had a little higher top end. They both handle very similar(my GS has the SM knockoffs so the seating and lean over was very close to each other.
As far as the looks I like the looks of the 500 Ninja. That older look is what I fell in love with back in the 1980's when the sport bikes came out. If I got a deal on a older one of those I would possibly have to make room on the porch for another bike. :lol: