GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

Gas just went to $2.89 for regular here!!!

What a crock of crap, I know the hurricane wrecked some stuff, but how does that instantly change the price of the stuff already in the holding tanks at the gas station???

That is crap. They are gouging us already...

I'm sure gas is higher in Cali where you have icredible ammounts of sales tax.

Must be nice to just hit that price....it has been around that for some time here in the Seattle area. Went out two nights ago and filled up my car and two five gallon gas cans for the GS and filled up the GS. I figure I might as well get some gas at a price that is lower than what it will be in a week to two. It jumped up about six pennys over night at the Shell station next to my house.....this morning it was up another four penny's. I can not believe how much it has jumped around here.....

2.90 to mid 3 bucks for regular at the cheaper gas stations is what is going on in Cali. Average though is like 3.05-3.10

Totally ridiculous...gas doesn't change price becuase of a hurricane...it would take days at the least...and most probably months for the actual price to change to reflect the hurricane damage.

my local station went from $2.65 to $2.89 overnight.  bastards.  someone explain to me why a shortage in oil refineries has an effect on crude oil prices?  and someone explain to me why oil companies are making record profits?

3.09 yesterday for 87 in toledo.

Our gas went up to 139.9 here in Nova Scotia

$6.06 per gallon here in the UK.
Now stop crying into your beer, you all get your gas dirt cheap.

if me maths is correct, british pound notes works out at $7.21 a gallon

I saw gas for $2.89 the other day here in Austin. Gas prices also change drastically due to the weekends. For example, a lot of people travel on the weekends, and therefore the gas companies would like to raise their prices in anticipation of that in order to make the most money. However, during the week gas is usually cheaper because people are doing their commuting and not their long drives. Best days to buy gas (typically): Tuesday - Thursday. Friday is when the jump occurs, and it lasts until Monday (so people can fill up after their trips).

Quote from: jiggersplatand someone explain to me why oil companies are making record profits?

That is simple to answer. Bush and Cheney are tied to big oil. The higher the gas prices the more money they make. Expecially Cheney. Ever notice how much work Halliburton is getting in Iraq? Bush could have opened the reserves right away and put a cap on fuel prices but chose not to. It is funny how the gas that has been sitting in the ground keeps going up. I can understand the new batch costing more but come on people.

3.15 here

last night I saw the prices: $3.20 in northern california  :thumb:

over here is ~3.70/gal after currency conversion

3.29 a gallon in indiana !

$3.05  Here in PA  :x  :x

I think its bull. Im only 29 and I can remember when gas was like $0.68

:?

Not to start a tangent or get flamed, but it has nothing to do with Bush or Cheney. WHat nobody ever talks about is how Haliburton is the ONLY company in the WORLD that can perform the tasks needed in Iraq. NOBODY ELSE WANTS OR CAN DO IT!!!!! look it up, its true.

As far as price gouging, its not the stations, they only 5-7 cents per gallon. Its the the distributors that dictate pricing, they are the ones who are making a killing. The stations raise their prices in reflection of the current market price, even though they didn't buy the gas in their tanks that high, they have to raise the price so they can refill them.

The other bastards are OPEC, they and the rest of the oil companies (americans included) are taking advantage of the war in Iraq and the rest of the turmoil in the middle east. They are all out to make a buck.

The only way we will be able a affect a change is to use less gas. I hate it, but at least I don't have to drive 50+ miles a day commuting like alot of people around here do (oklahoma.)

The hurricane bumping oil prices up is complete bullshit, they are just looking for excuses to raise the prices even more at this point. Americans have just proven to the world that they can charge whatever they want, and we will pay it.

In Iraq, they pay $.05 a gallon. Yeah, you read correctly, a nickel per gallon.

It ranges from $2.74 - $3.09 per gallon at my local gas stations. Hess seems to be on the cheaper end of the spectrum for some reason.

What's amazing to me is that the rest of the nation is now paying what we in California are paying. I don't mean that in the sense of  :nana:; I mean that in the sense that I'm used to seeing our gas prices much higher than the rest of the nation, so I guess the distributors are figuring they can only gouge us so badly in a certain amount of time. I'm glad I don't drive a Hummer like my neighbor two doors down!!  :thumb:  :mrgreen:

Since the oil rigs in the Gulf are going to be knocked off line for at least a week and have been down since probably Fri-Sat last week I don't think it is very surprising that the prices are so high.  Just be grateful for now you can still get it.  People are lined up for miles here.   Hopefully now people will get to work on alternate methods of fuel.   :dunno:

I said it before, and I'll say it again...
48mpg on the gs :nana: ha, ha, screw you, you stupid cagers.
oh, wait. damn I need to fill up my car today. Ok, I take it back.

Good to hear from you, Vball24!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :kiss:  /insert cyberhug emoticon here!

So glad you're safe!!! :cheers:

Quote from: Vball24Since the oil rigs in the Gulf are going to be knocked off line for at least a week and have been down since probably Fri-Sat last week I don't think it is very surprising that the prices are so high.  Just be grateful for now you can still get it.  People are lined up for miles here.   Hopefully now people will get to work on alternate methods of fuel.   :dunno:

$3.29 for the cheap stuff here in Central Illinois, $3.45 for the good stuff.

Be thankful that most of us here have an efficient little GS500 to get us around!  That 50-60mpg is awfully nice when gas hits $4/gallon, like it will within a few weeks.  Kind of amusing that my GS500F now costs as much to fill up as my car did 5 years ago. :thumb:

Living in the middle of farm country, I've got friends who own big pickups and SUV's that literally get 9,10, 12 mpg. They're starting to wonder if they can afford to run them.  

On the other hand.  None of us here really have anything to complain about.  There are hundreds of thousands of people who would love to have a house to live in, let alone a vehicle of any sort to put gas in right now, let alone the computer, electricity, and an internet connection that we're all using to complain about gas prices.  Yeah, it sucks that gas is $3+, moving to $4/gallon, but honestly, it's a wake-up call to all of us Americans that we use too much gas.  Prices, even at $4/gallon, are just barely coming up to the level that most of the rest of the world pays.  Yeah, it hurts me too, but it's a lesson that's been coming for a long time.

Somtimes I drive my v8 powered vehicle around by choice and most of the time I drive my turbo volvo's that get about 18-20mpg . I drive the gs here and though inbetween but I never complain about gas. business is business if you want to drive you pay for it. people arent stupid because they drive cars or have big motors in them that eat up gas. I wish people would stop saying "haha I ride a motorcycle i get great gas mielage" well when it rains people in cars are saying " haha I drive a car and look at that stupid motorcycle rider all wet" .   gas prices are high deal with it.

Thank you PANDY!!!  :mrgreen:   Lucky overall here.

Quote from: 71buickfreakHaliburton is the ONLY company in the WORLD that can perform the tasks needed in Iraq

Certainly, the only one that can gouge as well.  They subcontract everything out.  So it would be far more efficient to skip them and go right to the subcontractees.  There's always a leap in price for subcontracting, but they line their pockets like you wouldn't believe.

My dad is an economist and business developer who was in Iraq last year (lived in the kevlar-skivvies area of Baghdad).  He tells stories of corruption (on the US management side) that are just appaling.  He dropped a few dimes, but in this political climate, those tend to die a quiet death.

Quoteif me maths is correct, british pound notes works out at $7.21 a gallon

I think you worked out the cost in dollars of an Imperial Gallon which is 4.55 litres.
A US gallon is only 3.79 Litres

SO (7.21/4.55)3.79 = $6.006 per US gallon.
Looks like I misplaced that second 6 by one place, or perhaps Fuel costs a smidge more up here in Scotland.

Quote from: RoadstergalThey subcontract everything out.  So it would be far more efficient to skip them and go right to the subcontractees.  

It appears that they are not the only ones in the world that can do it if they have other people do it for them. They are the only ones that get a chance to do it be cause they are awarded the "no-bid" contracts.

This is headed to the Tard Farm. Or Odds N Ends. Or my mom's house.  :roll:

Dave  :cheers:

I used to be very conscientious about keeping politics out of non-political venues, not hijacking threads, etc.  These days, I just don't give as much of a crap anymore.  :)

I think of the saying, "Money makes the world go round". But on second thought: money, politics, oil, money, oil, politics, oil, money, oil, oil, oil.
DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, We have a winner-----OIL!

well no one is forcing us to use petrol based products or fuels. ive said it more than once on here about the used vegitable oil. its basically free!! and what about the deisel bikes out there. you could run them on used veggie oil.
I think we are all just lazy and dont want to use the alternatives.  

But I do agree everything is based off of some time of oil at the least!

we run the money machines and they use lubricants.

I still have 100 miles left on my tank...  I'll worry about gas prices in a few days.   :thumb:

Yea see No one is forcing you to buy their oil ... BTW it was stupid of us (as a country and a civilisation) to build our entire economy on something that we had no control over. Now we have people that commute 100's of miles a day, in huge cars that are safe and ooooh so comfortable ... and what powers it is entirely subject to the whims and fancies of a few people who hever had a cot to sleep on nor a bicycle to ride on ever. If Some clown invented the IC engine that ran on gasoline and we discovered no gasoline in our backyard ... I'd say Yea keep discovering till you find one that runs on corn syrup. But no ... Oil is in the middle east, but its refined by American companies. Good way to cut out foreign entities ... as much as possible. But still not enough. Russia is going to be the next Saudi Arabia, and they will more than likely not go that same way ... hope ...
Cool.
Srinath.

QuoteSusuki_Jah
people arent stupid because they drive cars or have big motors in them that eat up gas. I wish people would stop saying "haha I ride a motorcycle i get great gas mielage" well when it rains people in cars are saying " haha I drive a car and look at that stupid motorcycle rider all wet" .

If driving around by yourself in a gas guzzler isn't stupid, especially these days, I don't know what is. the point is that over consumption is a major part of the problem. not trying to case on anyone, but that is a fact.

Quote from: gs2sv

QuoteSusuki_Jah
people arent stupid because they drive cars or have big motors in them that eat up gas. I wish people would stop saying "haha I ride a motorcycle i get great gas mielage" well when it rains people in cars are saying " haha I drive a car and look at that stupid motorcycle rider all wet" .

If driving around by yourself in a gas guzzler isn't stupid, especially these days, I don't know what is. the point is that over consumption is a major part of the problem. not trying to case on anyone, but that is a fact.

well some of us actually need the cars we use. its not so practical to tow things with a 4 cylender car and a week transmission. its not practical to tow things with a motorcycle. some of us need big cars . I use cars to transport alot of my band equipment and on top of it. when did American become a nazi society. wait it NEVER DID> so that means we can drive whatever we want to . hey we pay for it no one said you had to.  but again you cant automatically think the person driving the SUV is stupid becaue they have a v8. maybe the lady has 4 kids and they all play soccer or are in the band. maybe that suv is safer because it has awd and they have a boat they need to tow .  

consumption is not a problem because there are many alternatives fuels out there. if it bothers people that much, then choose an alternative fuel. you cant blame people for doing what they want. just because the guy next store feels he is too poor to afford gas or the college student doesnt want to walk 2 miles to school and is pissed at gas prices is that anyone elses problem? nope. i pay for my gas whats the big deal?

Suzuki_Jah always seems to get flamed for whatever he does. It's his choice, so I don't see what the problem is.

Anyway, On to the gas prices. I work at Sams, and we have a gas station out front. The price WE pay  for our gas has gone up about 80 cents in two days. Every tanker of gas we have gotten in the past few days, the price has gone up 20 or 30 cents per gallon, and we pay the same price for each gallon in the tanker.  So, for every tanker of gas we get, the price goes up. We sell ALOT more gas than most stations, especially the smaller ones, so they have the cheaper gas in their tanks longer as they have not had to replenish their tanks by buying newer, more expensive gas, therefore their price can stay lower longer. But we have to match this price, or our customers get mad, so our price, even though we are paying 80 cents more per gallon, has to stay the same as the other, smaller stations. Therefore we are LOSING about 60 cents a gallon, or about $15,000 a day until about monday when the other stations will have to refill their tanks with the more expensive gas. I hope that's not too complicated. So, it's not the gas stations that are getting rich, it's the oil companies that are rocking our faces off with crazy prices. Here's proof:
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/gasprices.html
That's NUTS.

Waaaaaave to the NaviHummers as you ride by them! They will claim that if they can afford the gas beast, that they can afford the gas, but:

A co-worker's Silverado SS gets 14 MPG, I am averaging 51 MPG on my GS. We both have a 25 mile commute.

At 50 miles per day, and $3 per gallon

6500 miles per year

My VW Golf would use 216 gallons  $648

My GS500 will use 127 gallons at $381

He will use 464 gallons and spend $1392


MmmmmWaaahhhhhaaaaahhhhaaaaaaa

Quote from: BlingmastaSuzuki_Jah always seems to get flamed for whatever he does.

Well, since the primary thing he does is to be a homophobic jackass, this shouldn't surprise you.

Quote from: BlingmastaSuzuki_Jah always seems to get flamed for whatever he does. It's his choice, so I don't see what the problem is.

I don't think he gets roasted for what his opinions are as much as how he expresses them. When someone often starts posts out with, "People are stupid because...," and sprinkles that with a liberal helping of "stupid bikers," there's bound to be some tension caused. People tend to respond better to respect, though Suzuki_Jah thinks of those who respect each other and safety as being weak and...darn...what was the phrase? Oh yeah...a bunch of suckups!  :lol: So...where was your confusion again???  :mrgreen:

Quote from: RoadstergalWell, since the primary thing he does is to be a homophobic jackass, this shouldn't surprise you.

You always get to the point so much better than I do. I admire your pithiness.  :lol:  :thumb:

;)

Ooooo............. Pandy big words me impressed..... Suzuki Jah the next "Guest"????? Only time will tell.

Looking at the bigger picture tends to concern me.  

• Winter's coming.  Bike gets bagged and I have to walk or drive.  Not looking forward to that with current gas prices.
  
  
• Agree with Cheryl -- this may be enough to scramble entrepreneurial activities for alternate energy.  From what I know, there's no quick answer.  Nothing found yet beats fossil fuels for safe, portable and high-density energy.
  
  
• Even if an alternate fuel is identified, there's the infrastructure necessary to make it accessible.  Think about how long it took for the Cell Phone to become wide spread -- will take at least half that time to build an alternate fuel distribution network if we have one.
  
  
• Think about what's made of plastic -- almost all of it made from petroleum.  Everything is going to cost more, not just the fluid in your tank.
  
  
• Some major airline (or airlines) is bound to declare unrecoverable bankruptcy in the next 12 months unless there's a dramatic and unified increase in ticket prices.  Everyone that travels will loose.
  
  
• North America is a big place -- covered primarily by asphalt and concrete paths called roads.  Everything moves by tractor-trailer.  It's all now twice as expensive to move it around as it was in March'05.
  
  
• To end on a high note, there's lots of Coal to generate electricity, though harder to get out without making a mess or hurting people or the environment.[/list:u]It will take unified action to change things.  This is not a bump in the road.  We need to invent a new road.  We up for it?

Quote from: Roadstergal

Quote from: BlingmastaSuzuki_Jah always seems to get flamed for whatever he does.

Well, since the primary thing he does is to be a homophobic jackass, this shouldn't surprise you.

Welp, I'm not going to defend him from that, doesn't mean that much to me anyway.

I just had a beer and I feel more optimistic about the world.  Let's get to work and make a better tomorrow...  :thumb:

A few more and it's a utopia  :thumb:

:cheers:

QuoteSusuki_Jahwell
some of us actually need the cars we use. its not so practical to tow things with a 4 cylender car and a week transmission. its not practical to tow things with a motorcycle. some of us need big cars . I use cars to transport alot of my band equipment and on top of it. when did American become a nazi society. wait it NEVER DID> so that means we can drive whatever we want to . hey we pay for it no one said you had to. but again you cant automatically think the person driving the SUV is stupid becaue they have a v8. maybe the lady has 4 kids and they all play soccer or are in the band. maybe that suv is safer because it has awd and they have a boat they need to tow .
consumption is not a problem because there are many alternatives fuels out there

if you notice, my post read: "If driving around by yourself" that was meant to imply that not everyone needs a v8, most who drive suv type vehicles don't tow or haul anything other than themselves. and yes, over consumption is a problem, where is your head at? and lastly, yes we all do have to pay for others over consumption, over consumption leads to higher prices, which everyone has to pay. I don't think expecting others to use a resource we all depend on wisely is "nazi" behavior, just seems like common sense to me.

I'm all for corn, I love corn. corn flakes, corn syrup corn gas, F-it, I'll live in a friggin corn cob house if I could get the ethynol to run my car! (ethanol is a corn-derived fuel which is actually a grain alcohol) Ethanol is already in use at most race tracks and is currently available in the form os E10 (10%ethanol, 90% gas) and E85 (you guessed it, 85% ethanol) I believe all cars built after 1998 can run E10 and I think E85. Why does nobody know? OIL LOBBYISTS! I think it is absolutely atrocious that we still depend on oil. This is coming from a republican in Oklahoma, a state literally built from oil money. I hate OIL, I think it is ruining everything. I am not a tree hugger, I drive a friggin muscle car for god sakes, I just don't like greed, and that is what OIL has spawned.

As far as being stupid for building a country on oil, which it doesn't have? That is an incorrect statement, as at the time of the industrial revolution, OIL was literally flowing out of the ground in the prairies of the Midwest such as Oklahoma and Texas, that's why it became the beast it did, it was abundant It didn't start drying up (its still a major commodity here) until much much later, then in the middle of the century w started getting foreign oil and the tree huggers have prevented us from drilling alaska and there my friends, is a VAST sea of oil which would eliminate our dependance on foreign oil and thus allow us to render the middlw east a big sheet glass and solve most of the world's problems.

I'm not saying I condone nuking them but hey, I don't much care for terrorist states.

It's completely clean burning, manufactures clean, even gives us nutritious livestock feed and CO2 which can be compressed and sold! Helping farmers live and feed their families works for me! think about it, how do you feed the world, pay all the poor people, replenish the earth, and drive a car all at the same time? F*CKING GROW SOME CORN!

http://www.ethanol.org

It's not so much that gas ia 3.19 here in  MD....What I fear is that the cost of transportation of good this holiday season and what not...Trucking companies are defently feeling the squeeze...They will sooner or later raise their rates to compensate for the higher price they are paying for fuel...Semi trucks =50gal a trip>>ching ching$$$ Did I mention that just about every plastic comes from oil? SO ya just about everything in your house/daily use it going to feel the ripple effect. Which is still in the future, but MAKE no misteak it is comming....

IMHO tho it's about time someone "Smaked US" upside the head here in American and said look oil/gas is running out time to blow the dust off that alt. fuel source idea you jotted down on a pizza box during that meeting.....I think that if the conditions continue that WHOLE Hydrogen super structure idea maybe be approaching much faster than expected.

Another suprise to me is that I have not read about any boycotts at pumps yet......???? If USA can substain transportation on a 30-40% reduction in oil usage over what it is right now then OPEC is pretty much going to have to rethink/restructure their rates.

HONESTLY the days of $1.00 a gallon will never happen again
the day of $2.00 a gallon are just about gone into the history books and I'm willing to bet that $3.00 a gallon is going to stick around for a few months then Free Market will make it drop a bit and keep it in the mid 2.50 a gallon range. The range of gas over the years [2000-present] is the ripple effect from the SUV craze. Then tac on a little more for the refineries and ya that should put you near the $3 range for a gallon of gas....That's what you pay for a gallon of milk, a lousy $3  :roll:

While i'm on a roll someone condem the Internal Combustion motor that can peak at 57% efficency.....IF and I do mean a big IF you can get the Exhaust tempeatures up to 400ish *F then average Joe's transportation is going to get a 12% boost in MPG. That's what makes diesels so much better than gasoline engines in terms of fuel consumption. Complications are tho that head gaskets start melting, cheap-o exhaust pipes [OEM stockers] can begin to warp and tweak and all those wires, hoses and the paint on the hood begin to deteriorate from the heat.

IF:
*Nine of the 10 highest temperatures ever recorded occurred in the last 14 years.
*Incidence of Hurricanes/typhoons increased threefold.
*The glaciers are ALL ( yes, even Calafata) in retreat and speeding up.
Then I posit there must be a graph somewhere which can be overlaid onto the resurgence of overweight SUVs and match the curves exactly. :mrgreen:

I just calculated ours to be about 4.53$USD/US gallon and I gave the us dollar a better number that its been the last few weeks cause with the current buying rate for canadian banks (1.17) it would equal 4.83$/Gallon, USD and USGallons.

Its expensive... yet Europe still has it alot more expensive. I'll still be out there riding my heart out, and not be shy to go out in my car... i'll just waste less money on absolute junk like Mcd's and ciggs and boose.

You must have tons of reserves over there in NB (Nova Scotian here) where you can get some pleasently cheap fuel. On the res. nearest me its $1.06/L compaired to $1.17 at the PetroCan. It doesn't make much of a difference when I fill up the GS, maybe enough to buy a chocolate bar, but in my father's car it would make a fair difference.

Quote from: BLITZMW77

and someone explain to me why oil companies are making record profits?[/quote]

That is simple to answer. Bush and Cheney are tied to big oil. The higher the gas prices the more money they make. Expecially Cheney. Ever notice how much work Halliburton is getting in Iraq? Bush could have opend the reserves right away and put a cap on fuel prices but chose not to. It is funny how the gas that has been sitting in ground keeps going up. I can understand the new batch costing more but come on people.[/quote]

It's called supply and demand. If our prices go up at work selling electrical equipment then we raise the price on the stock we already have even though we payed less for it. Everybody does that. It's not Bush and cheney, they are not the ones marking it up.

Quote from: NarcissusYou must have tons of reserves over there in NB (Nova Scotian here) where you can get some pleasently cheap fuel. On the res. nearest me its $1.06/L compaired to $1.17 at the PetroCan. It doesn't make much of a difference when I fill up the GS, maybe enough to buy a chocolate bar, but in my father's car it would make a fair difference.

yeah its 1.39$/L for regular and 1.46$/L for supreme in Moncton.. I drive a Saturn for my car and its getting expensive lol especially when I'm allready paying more for insurance than for the car.. lol.. being 19 sucks!

How much is yuor GS insurance?

Quote from: NarcissusHow much is yuor GS insurance?

GS is only about 700 bux for plpd..

car insurance is well over 3600$... and thats a staff price since I work for RBC, normally it would be 4200+$ ... 19yo No tickets, ONE accident... I wont complain, I quoted after my accident at 16yo and it was 8400$ a year :roll:

$37 a month, But I just pay the yearly amount. and it's full coverage.

Quote from: gs500fromnb

Quote from: NarcissusHow much is yuor GS insurance?

GS is only about 700 bux for plpd..

car insurance is well over 3600$... and thats a staff price since I work for RBC, normally it would be 4200+$ ... 19yo No tickets, ONE accident... I wont complain, I quoted after my accident at 16yo and it was 8400$ a year :roll:

What the hell do you drive? I'm only 19 with no tickets and my car insurance isn't even over $1000 a year. that's driving a mazda rx-7 with full coverage.

Whoa, full coverage for my GS is damn near $1000 annually, although I am 2 years younger.

Quote
I'm not saying I condone nuking them but hey, I don't much care for terrorist states.

With stupid comments like that we don't need robertson.

Quote from: jiggersplatmy local station went from $2.65 to $2.89 overnight.  bastards.  someone explain to me why a shortage in oil refineries has an effect on crude oil prices?  and someone explain to me why oil companies are making record profits?

bush?

i'd like to meet all those damn over-patriotic bastards who said "that gas prices will go down once we conquer iraq..."

yeah right...

It is all George Bush's fault!

He should have prevented the hurricane!
He should have had an exit strategy for the people of New Orleans!
He should have made them improve the bridges and retaining walls of the levees enough to stay up in a storm!
He should have mde them move the Oil Platforms out of the area before the storm hit!
He is the President he should have done SOMETHING else!

And another thing:
They haven't reported finding any ALLIGATORS (or WMDs either) in New Orleans either!

(Imitation of a Liberal over)

In all seriousness folks, People are dead and others are still dying from the effects of this hurricane, the price of gas (or tea in china for that matter) is relatively unimportant in relationship to that. At least in my opinion.

All my sympathies and well wishes to the people suffering from the hurricane.

Ya but if I didn't have to worry about how I was going to pay for gas I could donate to the relief fund.

it's $1.29 a litre for 91 today.

I had no Idea so many would respond to this thread...

Gas here is now $3.00 a gallon... rediculous. I know for a fact that the gas station in our town has not been replenished by the tanker yet, so how the F do they figure the same gas that 3 days ago was $2.70 a gallon is now $3.00..... price gauging.

Quote from: vfrocketI had no Idea so many would respond to this thread...

Gas here is now $3.00 a gallon... rediculous. .......

.. and we are paying US $6.10 a gallon in Italy (in cheap gas stations)...  :x

Do you guys uderstand our concern for better mileage?  I envy those guys that claim 65+ MPG!  :o

Why do people blame Bush for everything?

beacause theyare looking for someone to blame. I don't blame him for the hurricane, thats stupid. I do however blame him for not getting involved.  Send in the Marines, this is ridiculous, Martial law is needed. People are being murdered and raped. The Red cross and FEMA have screwed this up royally, he needs to step in and send in the marines and get the situation under control. 15,000 people at the NO convention center have still not gotten any assistance, they are dying on the street. Everybody screwed this up, not just one person. I cannot believe this can happen in our country in this day and age. I can tell you this, if this was idaho or florida or california, this would not have happened. There is definitely a race issue at work here. I am white and I voted for Bush, but this is ridiculous. I saw a list of Yahoo news clips with pictures and caption. Each one (about 7) showed black people wading through water being called looters, he looted a grocery store, a young man wades through water after looting a store. Then it show 2 white people and said "2 young people wade through the flood waters after FINDING food and water in a grocery store. If your black, your looting, if your white, you just find stuff.

I don't have a problem with anybody taking food and water. But taking other things that you do not need should not be tolerated!

Quote from: porsche4786Why do people blame Bush for everything?

Because he's a retard?  :dunno:

Quote from: porsche4786Why do people blame Bush for everything?

He assumed the leadership position of the USA, and with that comes the responsibility. Since he has been elected, we've been to a questionable war, gas prices have hiked up exponentially, and many of our personal freedoms and liberties are being "re-evaluated". He claims to be out to preserve the American way of life, but losing our brothers and sisters in war for a fight that is not our own, losing privacy, and people not being able to afford to drive their cars to work doesn't sound very good to me.

Granted, I am not a political strategist. I vote Green, so I don't have a lot of political clout anyway.  :lol:  I don't blame him for eveything, but I don't think he is a very good president, either. It seems an awful lot of things have went wrong and the aftermaths have not been handled properly, since his administration.  :dunno:

Quote from: porsche4786I don't have a problem with anybody taking food and water. But taking other things that you do not need should not be tolerated!

I dont think people are taking anyhting else ... like say big screen TV's ... cos there is no place to put them ... food, clothes, bandages (that rite aid bit on Msnbc said it was picked clean ...).
Now My other question is, why did we build such a huge city in such a precarious location. OK I know Manhattan, SFO, LA and more are blatantly in harm's way. The earth sneezes and we're now short a city or 2. The more "interesting" locations are clearly fraught with the risk. That makes the logistics of mobilisation much worse. Say this or somehting similar happened in the middle of a flat and featureless plain, I'll bet the devastation will be far less and help will be quicker to get in. There were $ hour traffic jams for buses going in to get people. That's just wrong. We need to start thinking in terms of disaster survival as a civilisation. The interesting spots will just have to be vacation spots.
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: seshadri_srinathMy other question is, why did we build such a huge city in such a precarious location. OK I know Manhattan, SFO, LA and more are blatantly in harm's way.

I am thinking the cities are built in areas likethat because they are close to the water ways; before the Interstate system, etc., many things were primarily delivered by boat, including the immigrants who "settled" there. Food and supplies and people arrived by boat, so it made sense to build the metropolis by the ports.

If you notice, a lot of train tracks often run close to major water ways because after the water ways were the primary means, the trains sort of took their place. Now the trains are being used less and now it is more vehicular (ie tractor trailers). Then the Interstates came along, etc. Kind of a build upon basic blocks.

:cheers:

Gas companies have been making record profits ever since the oil embargo of 1978, when OPEC producers decided to stop sending crude oil here.  Congress deregulated domestic crude oil prices in order to stimulate local drilling, so the price went from regulated at $2.90 a barrel to over $30. Of the top ten multinational corporations in the world in 1978, 5 were oil companies. They paid a grand total of $5000. in corporate income taxes to the state of WV in 1978.

So this stuff happening today is the same old shaZam!. Only the flies are different.

Quote from: Phaedrus

Quote from: seshadri_srinathMy other question is, why did we build such a huge city in such a precarious location. OK I know Manhattan, SFO, LA and more are blatantly in harm's way.

I am thinking the cities are built in areas likethat because they are close to the water ways; before the Interstate system, etc., many things were primarily delivered by boat, including the immigrants who "settled" there. Food and supplies and people arrived by boat, so it made sense to build the metropolis by the ports.

If you notice, a lot of train tracks often run close to major water ways because after the water ways were the primary means, the trains sort of took their place. Now the trains are being used less and now it is more vehicular (ie tractor trailers). Then the Interstates came along, etc. Kind of a build upon basic blocks.

:cheers:

OK that makes sense. So I guess now that the interstates are here, people better move to like Kansas or Some other flat stable place. Yea right ... but I would hope these and other calamities will open people's minds to the possibility of that and the frailities of human life. I have been fortunate enough to not get in any situation that even remotely brushed up with natures wrath (wrong word, since its not a vengeful creature, its just nature ) so I cant speak from experience, but Anne Heche in Volcano made one neat statement of LA (los Angeles not Louisiana thought now it makes a appropriate translation) - "Finally this city is paying for its arrogance" Yea a super volcano under LA sends super heated lava running like flood waters through the city - LA is Lousiana and super heated lava running like water is now super contaminated water running like water it all fits. Simply put we cannot go on living like this. Shipping port if its still in use a one, is to be used as such, then Freight train or truck the cargo or fly it where you live. We also need to produce less trash, and make sure its not picked up by nature and hurled back in our faces. There are 7 billion people in the world, 320 million is it in the US, and if we're not careful we will accidentally kill each other, and of course the intentional killing will also remain at the current levels. The other insane point I would make and in the present situation it seems so callous, yea this happens and instantly they want federal aid. That is a waste of resources that would have gone to help build and improve other aspects. I'd simply start moving the high risk areas out of a federal aid program. That would provide an incentive for people not to move back to the high risk zone. If the area is under sea level now, you can be certain nature will claim it back sooner or later. Also Home owners Insurance for houses lost like this will only cover the rebuilding cost. People in many cases say yea so if my house is lost, I'll get insurance money and that lets them seek high risk areas. Now if the house is lost in a fire, you'd get the cost of repair or rebuilding. Same case. Your land is not insurable. I dont know how it is right now. Buy a house on the mountain side and it drops off into the ravine, too bad. You can replace your house but not that location, you own the land that's between the markers, and that's that.
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: seshadri_srinathSay this or somehting similar happened in the middle of a flat and featureless plain, I'll bet the devastation will be far less and help will be quicker to get in.

Flat, featureless plans like to flood a lot.

Quote from: porsche4786

Quote from: gs500fromnb

Quote from: NarcissusHow much is yuor GS insurance?

GS is only about 700 bux for plpd..

car insurance is well over 3600$... and thats a staff price since I work for RBC, normally it would be 4200+$ ... 19yo No tickets, ONE accident... I wont complain, I quoted after my accident at 16yo and it was 8400$ a year :roll:

What the hell do you drive? I'm only 19 with no tickets and my car insurance isn't even over $1000 a year. that's driving a mazda rx-7 with full coverage.

4 door Saturn (about 100hp :oops:)  Insurance here comes with a tub of vaseline after your first accident.

A two door sportcar for me would be slightly over 5300$/year :(

Gas here will probably be over 5$US/Gallon by a couple of months... or a week or two if they keep rising the way they;ve been... over 40% in a few weeks!

Quote from: 2005-GS500-PDX

Quote from: porsche4786Why do people blame Bush for everything?

Because he's a retard?  :dunno:

I don't think you can get into Yale if your retarded...He is only one man and cannot do everything! It's funny how everybody blames him but they don't do anything theirselves.

Also, I did see on TV that people were stealing stuff other than what they needed, such as guns and tv's. Then probably realized that their homes were gone and had no place to put them.

Quote from: porsche4786Why do people blame Bush for everything?

Because it's easy.  People don't want to think about the real reasons.  They'd rather fantasize that gas will cost $1.99 a gallon again.

There are many reason why gas prices are going up-up-up-up...

1. Inflation.
2. Peak Oil.
3. Katrina.
4. China's demand for oil.
5. Middle East crap.
6. Many OPEC nations hate the U.S.[/list:u]Even if gas prices go back down to $2.90 a gallon, it won't be for long.  They'll keep going up-up-up-up.  Realize that oil prices are going to make EVERYTHING cost more...  Get used to it.  Buy a bicycle.  Take the bus.  Move closer to work.  Get a job closer to home.  Buy a 100% electric car and get solar/wind power at your house.

Oil is on it's way out...  We may have 500 years of oil left, but it doesn't matter.  Supply is not matching demand and that means the price is never going to go down.

Very well said! :thumb:

Quote from: aaronstj

Quote from: seshadri_srinathSay this or somehting similar happened in the middle of a flat and featureless plain, I'll bet the devastation will be far less and help will be quicker to get in.

Flat, featureless plans like to flood a lot.

Oh great ... Yea I guess. Over all just sorta need to keep the doomsday scenario and the return period of said scenario in mind. New Orleans had been dodging it for a while, had a good few close calls and that was after 1969's camille ... I'd say 35 years for the biggie and 5 years for the medium ones, not acceptable odds. Flooding is common along river banks in the plains. Stay away from those, in any case we would be damming/diverting them if needed, so not an unsurmountable obstacle when millions of people's lives are at stake. How are we to control or divert a Hurricane or an earth quake or volcano. A 100 year flood is very different from a 10 year. Build on a 10 year flood plain and you're basically asking for it. Now I remember in 1995 the plains flooded, Missisippi breached its banks, when was the prior/next time.
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: porsche4786Very well said! :thumb:

:thumb:

Quote from: seshadri_srinath

Now My other question is, why did we build such a huge city in such a precarious location. Cool.
Srinath.

Ok, Mr. Bienville, a french dude, original built New Orleans although everybody else was like WTF? that ain't gonna work.  So you can blame it on the french.

Oh and how do you get into Yale if you are retard?  MONEY and FAMILIAR INFLUENCE!!!!! DUH!!!!

Quote from: porsche4786

Quote from: 2005-GS500-PDX

Quote from: porsche4786Why do people blame Bush for everything?

Because he's a retard?  :dunno:

I don't think you can get into Yale if your retarded...He is only one man and cannot do everything! It's funny how everybody blames him but they don't do anything theirselves.

Also, I did see on TV that people were stealing stuff other than what they needed, such as guns and tv's. Then probably realized that their homes were gone and had no place to put them.

I've never seen nor heard him say anything intelligent. So until he does, he's a retard in my book.

Quote from: 2005-GS500-PDXI've never seen nor heard him say anything intelligent. So until he does, he's a retard in my book.

Retarded or not, gas prices have very little to do with the president.

"Retarded or not, gas prices have very little to do with the president."

Well considering he's in bed with Sheik what's his name I think that is very debatable.

Peak Oil (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Peak+Oil%22)

Quote from: RVertigo

Quote from: 2005-GS500-PDXI've never seen nor heard him say anything intelligent. So until he does, he's a retard in my book.

Retarded or not, gas prices have very little to do with the president.

Well, let's make it a little less personal. It is not George Bush's fault that gas prices are high, but it is greatly the PRESIDENTS fault that we have a lousy energy policy. The president happens to be George Bush, and the energy policy happened to have something to do with fuel prices.

Better?  :dunno:

Quote from: Phaedrusit is greatly the PRESIDENTS fault that we have a lousy energy policy.

Presidents is right...  It's been many presidents.  Many cabinets.  Many Congresses.

Just like all the other problems we have right now...

You can try to blame one person, but it's not one person.  It's many many people...  You can blame the entire US government for our gas problems, but it's not just the government.  The people of this country are as much to blame...

There's no easy solution, we passed that point.  We're pretty much f%&ked now and you can blame if you want, but it won't un-f%$k us.

there was this interesting trend..when bush got into office...the price of gas went up like no other.

Seemed like a good correlation to me.

The various reasons given for the war in iraq (at least the quieter agendas) was to get cheaper gas...what happened??

We have dead people now and it seems like everything is going crazy.

Quote from: bannerThe various reasons given for the war in iraq (at least the quieter agendas) was to get cheaper gas...what happened??

I'm not saying oil has anything to do with the Iraq war (that's an argument that's been beaten to death), but oil is on our government's agenda.  And...  We're not done yet...

Peak Oil has been coming for a long time.  Many people in high places have known it (and many more have denied it for far too long).  Obtaining the most oil possible for this country is the right thing to do for a short-sighted government.  We didn't bother trying to get off the oil when we had enough time to do so, so now we're stuck on it.  So, what to do?  Get oil.

Here's the thing...  Oil is going to get really damn expensive no matter what.  The question is: HOW expensive?  $5 a gallon or $25 a gallon?

Even at $5 a gallon, we will feel an economic pinch.  Everything will cost more to compensate for the increase in gas prices...  At $25 a gallon, with short supply, we'll feel MUCH more than a pinch...  It'll be a flat-out punch in the face...  With a possible kick to the nads in waiting.

This page has a ton of info about peak oil...  Take it or leave it.

Give me a T
Give me an A
Give me an R
Give me a D

Give me a F
Give me an A
Give me an R
Give me an M


What does that spell?

Tard Farm! Where this is heading!  :mrgreen:

Perhaps.  If I can ever find the time to read it and figure out why.... :dunno:

I wasn't really sure why either...   :dunno:

I just spent 10 minutes reading through the Peak Oil web page RVertigo pointed to.  How depressing is that!!  What with the Bird Flu readying itself to create the next Black Death-like plague on humanity, all the sorrow in AL-MS-LA south and a falling stock market, it's getting hard to feel good about something these days.

At least the gouging has abated a bit here.  Regular dropped from $3.39 Thursday to $2.99 Friday.  Guess the fossil fuel flow has magically resumed.  :dunno:  

I hear another bottle of sunshine calling me from inside the fridge...

Reading about Peak Oil for the first time makes you feel like Sarah Connor in T2... :(

But, you eventually learn to accept it or move into total denial. :dunno:

I just read that Peak Oil crap and most of those statements about what requires oil can be alleviated with corn. Both corn and soybeans can yield higher amounts of quality usable product than the equivalent oil product. PLUS it doesn't have the nasty by products that have to be burned or buried for 200 years. Byproducts of ethanol manufacturing- CO2 which can be captured and compressed and sold, hmm, thats nice and a nutritious feed grain which certainly help grow more cows and animals and their poop will grow more corn and soybeans. All the doomsday predictions are for not because as humans, we find a way to survive, we survived the asteroids that killed the dinosaurs!

Here's the thing, I want to grow some damn corn and feed my gs off it. OK? maybe I drink a little too cause it is a nice grain alcohol, goes nice with some OJ. Hey orange mash whiskey, that might give the exhaust a citrus smell. mmmmmmm citrus...

I think I will open up a still in my backyard and when the ATF comes knocking I am gonna say hey @$$hole, I'm just burnin' it in my bike cause I can't afford 5 agallon! My wife already planted the corn.....(seriously, its in my backyard)

I commute 140 miles a day 4 days  a week and in Tulsa Gas is 3.19 a gallon while here in Stillwater, OK. It is still 2.99 hence the purchase of a 92 GS500E today  :) just dont kow what the hell I am gonna do when it gets cold  :dunno:

Quote from: bettingpythonI commute 140 miles a day 4 days  a week and in Tulsa Gas is 3.19 a gallon while here in Stillwater, OK. It is still 2.99 hence the purchase of a 92 GS500E today  :) just dont kow what the hell I am gonna do when it gets cold  :dunno:

Wear longjohns underneath your gear!

:thumb:  And get a balaclava.

ok, seeing how this is quickly becoming a very gloomy doomy thread, I figure i'll throw a few positives into the mix...

1. first of all, recent events have seemed to really throw the topics of energy consumption and environmental concerns into the spotlight. Now that people are more able to understand how easily things can be unsettled, maybe we can "really" begin to take on the challenges that face us in a realistic manner.

2. This is actually good for us. Many changes have been taking place over the last few years that will greatly make an impact on our overall way of life.
Many cities have looked to urban redevelopment projects in order to stimulate local economies, stimulate business growth within existing urban areas, and gain local income from increased property taxes. This in turn brings business and services closer to residential areas which allows people to be less dependent on motorized transportation. This in turns brings people out into their local communites, which can greatly improve the fabric of local areas not to mention the health and well being of the residents.
Urban redevelopment is currently gaining steam in part not only due to many younger single and married professionals having a need to be closer to events and entertainment, but also due to many baby boomers who themselves have a need for less space and less responsibilities. As the baby boomers age, they are less willing to want to care for and maintain large suburban homes, so we are in turn seeing many returning to the city in order to take advantage of the new development of condos and townhomes. Another thing to consider is that as the baby boomer generation ages, their ability to transport themselves by car will greatly diminish, so it is important for them to be closer to the services that they will require, sush as healthcare and emergency services. This new interest in building communities that contain housing, business and entertainment will go a long way in bringing down our usage of fossil fuels.

3. We still have a long way to go before we have a critical situation on our hands. There is plenty of time for us to evaluate our priorties and learn to be a bit more flexible. We as a country have always been at our best in times of hardship, and this is no different. If we begin to take these challenges more seriously, we can surely come up with creative ways to deal with problems in a way that doesn't hinder our way of life, but broadens it.

Ok, i'm done. Just remeber this - our government will not ever give us anything we don't demand, it's up to us to stay on their @$$e$, no matter what party they claim, that is OUR job.

peace all

Quotethere was this interesting trend..when bush got into office...the price of gas went up like no other.

Seemed like a good correlation to me.

The various reasons given for the war in iraq (at least the quieter agendas) was to get cheaper gas...what happened??

We have dead people now and it seems like everything is going crazy.

HAHA banner, I would like to say that I find it utterly hilarious that you have put a correlation between gas prices, the president, and a huricane. Oh yes, of course... gas goes up, and it causes a hurricane to kill people... It's ingenius! How did I not put 2 and 2 together!

Just pay whatever you have to at the pumps. Thats all we (as pawns) can do.

 -Anti  8)

QuoteThe Antibody
HAHA banner, I would like to say that I find it utterly hilarious that you have put a correlation between gas prices, the president, and a huricane. Oh yes, of course... gas goes up, and it causes a hurricane to kill people... It's ingenius! How did I not put 2 and 2 together!

hum? well since YOU seem to have a problem adding 2 and 2 together let me give you a hand. First, let's discuss Katrina. bush certainly didn't cause this hurricane, but he is directly responsible for the absolute blunder that has followed.
1. 2001, Bush names his choice for director of FEMA. Joe M. Allbaugh. A buddy from texas with relativley no experience in the field of disaster management. Then FEMA director Allbaugh  takes FEMA in a direction away from  disaster prepardness in order to save what is now becoming a dwindling budget.
2.The new DOHS absorbs FEMA and now takes 3/4 of all FEMA grants for use in counter terrorism.
3. 2003, Deputy Director Micheal Brown becomes Under Secretary of FEMA(Director), another previous acquaintance of Bush. Brown, a previous lawyer and professor has no previous experience in disaster management prior to his time in the Bush admin.
4. Brown, during a television interview thursday night, claimed that FEMA had no knowledge of the thoudands of people stranded inside the convention center of new orleans before that day, and that's why they had not received any aid. This was not taken well by journalists who explained to him that they had been reporting on those stranded there for days.

The lack of FEMA to coordinate or respond to the Katrina disaster falls squarely at the feet of the current admin. The president is directly responsible for the poor management and operation of the agency designed to manage disasters.

Now lets get to the oil.
This one is easy.
1. The Bush administration has failed to encourage conservation, regardless of current wartime conditions.
2. Administration fails to plan accordingly for the war in Iraq which greatly effects a major source of petrol.
3. Due to investor worries over the war and possible terror attacks to Saudi oil facilities and pipelines, Barrel prices soar to an all time high.
4. Due to reckless foreign policy, countries such as Venezuela are less willing to accomodate our needs, driving prices even further.

All of the above have greatly influenced the price of oil. Again, directly due to the actions of the current administration.

Wow, I guess Banner wasn't to far off in his post.
Anti, Pick up a newspaper once and a while, then maybe when you pick on someone else you can back up your opinions with a few facts. :)

Actually, you are wrong about it being Bush's fault. Fema is an assistance group, providing the man power and logistics to aid in disaster relief. The leadership of the state and local governments are rquired BY LAW to have plans set in place for such disasters. FEMA, while a little slow, is actually doing their job. this became a mess before the storm even hit because the IDIOT LA govenor mishandled the evacutation and didn't even bother to help the poorest people, who are the ones whoe got trapped. There were no buses, car or trucks sent to get the people out of the projects. How is that Bush's fault? It isn't. And to those who are thinking this is a race issue- most of the leadership in louisina is african-american. Nagin, the NO mayor is black. There were 2 disasters here the hurricane and then the levees broke, 2 seperate but related disasters, which helped to create massive disaster that has likely killed New Orleans from ever being what was again. Which for most people in the prject sat least is probably a blessing as they will now get a chance to start over and they will federal money to help rebuild thier lives even thoguh the were in the projects and didn't own land, they might now have a chance at a fresh start. The director of FEMA didn't know until thursday about the people at the convention center. Yeah, that is crap, it was however the state's fault for telling those people to go there in the first place because they were disorganized and had no real leadership. It wasn't until things got so bad that FEMA and the National guard had to take over. As far as the national guard, only the governor can call them in and then the governor has to lay out the plan. That was never done and now we have a huge mess. if your looking for someone to blame, it lies with the state of louisiana first and foremost. I'm lucky, I live in a state where we have dealt with stuff like this every year, not on this scale, but we have the best prepared rescue teams in the nation and other states call us to help whenever there is a disaster and our teams train other state teams on how to be efficient and thorough and quick all at the same time. I live in Oklahoma.

QuoteActually, you are wrong about it being Bush's fault.

Quote

Sorry, but I am going to have to disagree with you. The entire reason FEMA was created was to plan, prepare and assist BEFORE, during and after a disaster. In the past, FEMA has been responsible for such projects as using federal money to relocate families living in flood prone areas in order to prevent further need for assistance in the event of a disaster. That kind of  pre planning has proved to be very succesfull. The current FEMA leadership has failed to properly plan for such disaters which is why it took so long for help to respond. LA  and NO officials were asking for national guard troops to be sent from day one, and they were promised them, but it took until friday until we started to see a substantial number arrive. Again, a federal issue. I am certainly not going to say that LA and NO officials shouldn't share in the blame, but LA is the poorest state in the nation, they are working with a miniscule budget and lack of resources. Federal Emergency Management, that is what we expect FEMA to do, but without proper leadership or a proper budget, especially in a time when we are under constant worry of terrorism, is irresponsible. If Bush fails to place competent people in positions of responsibility, then he himself has failed us. I'm not looking to blame Bush because of who he is, but I have to lay blame where blame is due. The management and operation of FEMA is critical at this point, and this test of the system has proven to be a huge failure. If his people fail, he fails.

you are entitiled to your opion, however wrong it is. Its is the state's responsibility to direct the leaders of FEMA where to go and what to do. FEMA began preparing for this disaster as soon as it was realized it was going to hit. The second disaster of the levees breaking compounded the problem. I agree FEMA took a while to get in full force, which is part of the problem but it is not the federal governments responsibility to lead the efforts. During the OKC bombing, Gov. Frank Keating did a bang up job coordinating the effort on search and rescue and the aftermath. Same thing after the May 3rd tornados in which several cities were comepletely destroyed and you have no warning with tornados.
9\11 it was Mayor Guilliani who took command and lead the efforts following the attacks. FEMA is an agency that prvodes ASSISTANCE not leadership. the leadership is supposed to be provided by the states elected officials. Yes FEMA trains and helps the STATE develop disaster plans, but they don't know the layout of every city in america, thats ridiculous! It is the responsibility of each state to have the plans in place and FEMA helps them execute those plans. A lot of people messed up on this one, but it all started with the state. I don't care how poor a state is, they still have the responsibilty to plan for natural disasters. Oklahoma isn't a rich state, its at the bottom end just like LA, but we have the absolute best planning and S&R teams in the country. Oklahomans went out to New York to assist the efforts there and Mayor G specificically thanked the efforts of the Oklahoma teams. Have you seen the govenor of louisiana? a couple of times in the first day and now she's nowhere to be found? That's bullshit. Where is the state leadership? its non-existent. what message is that sending to the rest of the country? now FEMA and other agencies have HAD to take over where is not there job. If LA had quality, intelligent leadership, this would have never happened. The national guard CANNOT  be sent in by the president. the National guard is controlled in these situations by the governor. HMMMMM, where is she? The state agencys sent people to the superdome, where the directors (past and present) of FEMA had told New orleans to NEVER SEND ANYBODY THERE IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY because it is not properly set up for that situation and it is vulnerable itself. What happened, it had to be evacuated as soon as it was filled because it was putting people in jeopardy. Not to mention the scum that lives in NO. There 3 murders and numerous rapes IN THE SUPERDOME, not to mention the convention center and other various areas of NO. Believe me, the fault is not Bush's or FEMAs it all started at the state level.

these prices are killin me my durango gets 14 miles per gallon, i hardley ever rode my gs anymore but i guess ill start breaking it out all year around now. Oh yea i work for Halliburton and they love the gas prices i just wish the cash flow would trickle down to me out in the field lol .

WTF happed to my thread???? I never indended this to be a Bush bashing session.

PS gas is now 3.09 a gallon.

here in sd 3.30 is average (albeit on the cheaper side).


:x  :x  :x

my driving/riding is seriously curtailed....

WOW, that was just a waste of time reading all that 5 pages. To think of it, why am I even writing, just wasting more time. But Hey, its Labor Day! :thumb:

buick, I'm getting tired of this post now, so this is going to be my last post on the subject. you seem to be saying the same pointless opinions over and over, but you still haven't addressed any of my main points
1. why is a man with no previous disaster experience running FEMA?
2. why did it take until friday for substantial numbers of NG troops to finally start getting to New Orleans?
3. why is FEMA operating on a fraction of their previous budget?

yes, yes, yes, we all know that local and state officials seriously botched this up, nobody is arguing otherwise. the fact of the matter is that FEMA, and this administration were sadly slow in responding. You can't tell me that FEMA did a good job here, they didn't. I really wish people would stop letting this guy away with his inept management. By the way, the situation in both OK and NY are greatly different than the one in New orleans, you can't compare them to one another. If NY city or OK city were under water, you don't think that FEMA would have played a much larger role?
I'm done.

the director of FEMA has previous experience. He was a city manager in Oklahoma city overseeing disaster planning. I am not arguing he's the best man for the job. He isn't.

Terrorism has caused a lot of changes in this country, budgets get changed.

The troops have to be ordered by the state governor. nobody else can do that.

and by the wya, FEMA played huge roles in both OKC and NY, and they aren't that different. In both OKC and NY, there was no warning. Besides that, you seem to be taking everyhting I am saying and twisting it. I have said all along that the blame falls on everyone, but it all started and has continued with the state officials

Not to get this thread even further off-track, but an important point to be made: natural disasters are MUCH more dangerous, cause MUCH more damage, and occur MUCH more frequently than terrorist attacks. Putting aside the current blame game, gs2sv makes the point that diverting resources from disaster planning to antiterrorism is an insane move. Note that this is coming from someone in a city that is the nation's #1 target for terrorist attacks and all but immune to natural disasters. I understand that for the country as a whole, even if not for me personally, diverting huge amounts of resources to antiterrorism is simply bad policy. A certain wing of the Republican party has benefitted greatly from the recent focus on terrorism, but soon the majority of the country is going to realize that they aren't targets, and that their real needs aren't being addressed. Then this shortsighted political move is going to turn around and bite the GOP in the ass.

gs2sv, there is no reason to be smug about this. Insulting my intelligence is easy over the internet. Many people (including you) are throwing out all of this information expecting people to believe you. For instance... price gouging on the part of gas stations. WRONG! some maybe but not many. Different prices different days of the week. WRONG Bush responsibe for Katrina disaster. WRONG The govenor says it is a racist situation because NG didn't get there until Friday. The water didn't recede until then. The Mississippi was feeding the flooded areas. One can't fix a problem until it stabalizes. All this talk about FEMA is just another way to take the blame away from The City of New Orleans's poor planning. There are about 700,000 people that live there. I didn't waist my time checking numbers, but thats not too far off. Over 100,000 families had no transportation. The city had no way to evacuate them. Bush has nothing to do with it. He is the Nations Pres. Micromanaging the states is not HIS job.

Oh, and not going to war because you are afraid of gas going up a bit is a bit silly isn't it. "I'll set all of this aside and forget the problems of the world as long as my gas stays lower."   sheesh.

 -Anti  8)

Quote from: vfrocketPS gas is now 3.09 a gallon.

I paid $2.79 yesterday.   :thumb:

2.99 here

$2.99 is about the average here...  But, I was down in Olympia.  They have lower (local) taxes down there.

We're still at 2.80-ish. I need to fill the bike and car up before it goes over $3.

Dave  :cheers:

Here's my plan to beat gas prices...

1.  Buy a house somewhere really sunny.
2.  Install solar panels on every available sun-facing surface (and build more if needed).
3.  Install windmills to support the electric generation at night.
4.  Design and build gas to electric engine conversion kits for my cars and GS.[/list:u]  :thumb:

In about 35 years, I should break even!

WTF. My gas is still around $3.29  :o

It actually dropped today! 2.95

IMO Bush is the biggest joke that I have ever seen, I think he sucks.  It shouldnt even be a debat because Al Gore should have been in office, period the end.

hah, Gore.....

Al gore? hehe

Anyways...am I the only one living in an area where the gas prices have NOT decreased??  :dunno: We're still $3.29-$3.49 for 87 octane.

$2.939, 87 octane, 5:08 am today. (2.9 gal, $8.53, 177 miles)

in san diego they are pretty steady as well. I don't ride my bike everywhere...but i've seriously cut down on traveling.

8)
All time low this week....3.17 yeah baby let's burn some fuel.

I'm really thinking about trading the bike in on a horse.

Over the last few weeks we have had a lot of threads about the price of gas - petrol -fuel, hardly surprising considering the price and the politics of it. I always think that price is essentially governed by supply and demand, if demand exceeds supply the price rockets and so on. China is creating a huge demand.

I just read in today's shipping industry paper that South Korean shipyards alone are expecting to build 70 - 90 Liquified natural gas (LNGs) tankers in the next few years, one company expects to more than double its present fleet and become the biggest LNG operator on the planet (Qatar gas transport Co) LPG and conventional oil tanker building is coming out of the doldrums. Just a few years back there were hundreds of tankers "mothballed".

What is occuring here? Is there more supply available than some people like to make out or are some corporations spending millions on tankers just for the joy of employing sailers and people like me, hmmmmm tough one that!

Where the competent mariners will come from to man them is for another forum, seeing as shipping companies have been cutting back on training and cadets for years.

Finally went down a dime here to 2.99 for ethanol

Quote from: davipuI'm really thinking about trading the bike in on a horse.

SSShhhh!!!

You don't want to drive up alfalfa prices!

Quote from: Cal Price... I just read in today's shipping industry paper that South Korean shipyards alone are expecting to build 70 - 90 Liquified natural gas (LNGs) tankers in the next few years, one company expects to more than double its present fleet and become the biggest LNG operator on the planet (Qatar gas transport Co) LPG and conventional oil tanker building is coming out of the doldrums. Just a few years back there were hundreds of tankers "mothballed"...

Interesting observation Cal.  This follows the trend I've also been following, that shipping gas will challenge oil in the next decade.

Suspect it's "the next best thing" syndrome.  Oil is easier to deal with and has higher energy density, but NG is a close second.  With energy (in whatever package) being ever in demand, and NG being easier to convert to usable form, it seems like a good investment.

Industry seems to be betting against oil.  No refineries have been built in North America for 25 years; suspect similar statistics in Europe.  Wonder of this is an indicator of our future?

:thumb:
2.99 at the gulf station on the island....oh yeah road trip!

Here at work we use a lot of diesel fuel, (Heavy equipment and trucks) today we got our first month report for the bio-fuel that we started to use... turns out it is cheaper then pure diesel, good for the enivroment too. We are saving 10 cents a gallon. My shift alone burns 450 gallons, we run 24-7.  Graveyard..only 7 operators.
:thumb:

$2.89 around here the last few days. No bike to fill up yet, though :(

within 5 years you will be seeing more ethanol cars and NG and Propane cars. Plus hybrids running alternative fuels. I get a kick out of the retards that think they can make hydrogen bombs I mean car a reality. If they can't make an oil rig that doesn't bust open in the opwn sea, they ain't gonna succeed keeping a hydrogen fuel cell from exploding in a 65+ head on. Boom

Redshift,
I think you are right. Shipping liquified gas in VLC ships is not exactly without it's risks but seems to be on the up. I suppose it's a lot safer than pipelines through politically unstable areas. Given the level of investment on a global scale something is occuring here and I'm a great believer in "If you want to find out, follow the money"

Bio- Diesel etc,. yes we are getting into that at work. Quite independently one of my colleagues has started a small business reclaiming used cooking oil and marketing it as fuel. His car smell like fries but it works.

I watched a show on making your own bio diesel. They get it for free from a bakery or someplace (where ever you can). Then you have to mix it with a few other things, does take some time, but he made it for .70 cents per gallon.

Quote from: Cal Price... Bio- Diesel etc,. yes we are getting into that at work. Quite independently one of my colleagues has started a small business reclaiming used cooking oil and marketing it as fuel. His car smell like fries but it works.

The problem with bio-diesel is that there aren't enough chip shops in America to handle the potential appetite.  (Chips -- appetite --  :lol: didn't notice that.  :lol: )

Seriously, I doubt we could grow enough to make a significant dent in our global energy consumption.  Besides, in most of the world the seasons bite into how much we can make -- it doesn't grow on trees, or does it.

Roy...

Well...  Other than that...  What do you think the machines they use to grow the crops run on...

Steam engines. Now there's an idea.

Powered by?

Everything that burns is a finite resource...  Wood...  Coal...  Oil...  Natural Gas...

Other plant matter is slightly different.  Take Brazil and the use of Sugar Cane for ethanol fuel...

It's brilliant and it can't work here...  How do we farm?  Oil...  We run machines with oil...  We fertilize with oil... We kill bugs with oil...  We keep the products fresh with oil... We pack them in oil...

Manual labor is Brazil's oil.  But, the major difference is the pay...  No one could afford to eat, much less live, in the US on what they're paid.

We're pretty much f%&ked...  Go buy some guns and farmable land. :dunno:

Here's an article about Brazil's Sugar Gas...

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ethanol15jun15,0,3313642.story

Flex Fuel Cars will save us!!!  





:bs:

Bah...  We're still f%&ked.  I'm buying a gun.

Quote from: RVertigoBah...  We're still f%&ked.  I'm buying a gun.

Don't give up on humanity now!!  :o  

A challenge always brings out the best in us.  The best is yet to come. Have faith, hug the kids, keep your powder dry and locked up 'til ya need it.  Help is on the way, just not as fast as everyone wants.  :)

Quote from: RedShiftA challenge always brings out the best in us.

I guess you haven't been watching the news...

I'm being optimistic here...  

Challenge brings out the best in 60%...  The worst in 10%...  and the other 30% have no clue what to do, so they do nothing...  Leaving themselves out in the open for the worst of the 10%.

$3.19 here in central Cali (Fresno county) for regular unleaded at the local Fastrip

Update:

regular unleaded has gone back down, it is at $2.88 a gallon now.

I don't think we quite need to go to the stockades yet, there may not be one simple alternative just around the corner but loads of small ones helping out, steam engines with modern day technology is not such a bizzare concept for static functions, workshops, factories, pumping etc and you could power them on wood which in not a finite thing, its a crop. hazel, chestnut, sycamore and ash grow really fast and have been "coppiced" as a crop for hundreds of years. Cooking-oil cars are not going to take over the world but the point of my co-workers business enterprise is that the catering industry has to pay to get rid of the used cooking oil, he takes it from them for free, filters it, adds 3% white spirit and presto! it's diesel.
The biggest point is that we have used it twice.
Every little helps said the old lady as she peed into the sea..........

Roy (Redshift) is right, it helps when you have a chippie, a chinese, an Indian, a Turkish Kebab, a Greek Kebab and a Ghurka as well as all the big chain catering concessions and franchises on every street, such is the nature of my small town.

My moral from Cal's point: Every little bit helps, especially if we recycle or reuse energy.  :thumb:

Someone forwarded this to me in my email. haha. 'bout right!!

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b68/phaedrusGS/misc/image001.jpg)

Take the other digits off and you almost have the GS...

$0 - $3 - $7 - $10 - $15...

well there is no way in this country we can use manual labor in place of electricity...and for whatever reason our electricity mainly comes from fossil fuels, so i don't think it a solution...i also don't think there is a good solution for US, other then tak the money we're going to spend on landing men on mars or whatever Bush's space exploration goal is and spend it on something usefull....who knows if some of bush's predecessors did that, we would have any problems in middle east right now (they would just be begging us for money, but that not as bad as being blown up by them)

Quote from: Slavikwell there is no way in this country we can use manual labor in place of electricity...

Why can't we?  :dunno:

first of all, I am sure there is somekind of union that would requer $35/hour as a base.....and even if it wasn't can you imagine how much manual effort it would take to satisfy the demand of US for fuel?trust me we can emply the whole mexico on this project and only get a tenth of what we need

Quote from: Phaedrus

Quote from: Slavikwell there is no way in this country we can use manual labor in place of electricity...

Why can't we?  :dunno:

Our economy and cost of living prohibits it...  Brazil has a TOTALLY different economy.

Manual laborers can make the equivalent to $5 a day and afford to live...  You can't live in $5 an hour in the states.

woohooo...gas prices have plummeted
2.83


:x  :x

We gave this guy 8 years and hes doubled the gas prices......????

:x  :x  :x


I don't know...if lewinsky cooled off clintons lust for money....i would recommed we give the current administration a slew of mistresses

Quote from: bannerWe gave this guy 8 years and hes doubled the gas prices......????

It has very little to do with "him."

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net

So what do you guys think?  Is that article accurate?  Is it way off?

so all these years...gas prices are relatively steady...suddenly this guy gets elected and gas prices shoot up.

He has links to a major oil companies, a few members of his cabinet have links...his dad has links...


whos fault is it exactly?

I don't buy any of this...

why are iraqis getting 5 cent a gallon gas when here people are getting charged 3 bucks.

Thats tax dollars going to work

There's more to it...  The price steadiness in the '90s was pretty much faked.  Sounds stupid, but you need to look into it.

Supply and demand determins price...  Oil supply is not increasing.  Oil demand is increasing rapidly...

Quote from: duck CheneyBy some estimates, there will be an average of two-percent annual growth in global oil demand over the years ahead, along with, conservatively, a three-percent natural decline in production from existing reserves. That means by 2010 we will need on the order of an additional 50 million barrels a day.

He said that in 1999...  Too bad China decided they wanted some oil too.  The demand has been growing much faster than 2% annually.

Again in 2001:  

Quote from: duck CheneyThe most significant difference between now and a decade ago is the extraordinarily rapid erosion of spare capacities at critical segments of energy chains. Today, shortfalls appear to be endemic. Among the most extraordinary of these losses of spare capacity is in the oil arena.

A guy named Hubbert predicted this in the 70's...  Too bad no one listened. :dunno:

"so all these years...gas prices are relatively steady...suddenly this guy gets elected and gas prices shoot up."

"woohooo...gas prices have plummeted
2.83 "


By suddenly you mean 5 years later after he is elected? It doesn't have to do with Bush, you think the hurricane has to do something with it recently? $2.85 isn't that bad compared to many other places, the west coast has it a lot better than other parts!

EDIT: I almost wish kerry were elected and have the EXACT same things happen to him, they wouldn't blame him, oh gosh no.

Have we all forgotten about peak oil and oil production decline?

so your telling me its been steady all these years...and suddenly it spikes double within a few years...yeah right.

And the innocent guy in charge has links to oil, all his people have links to oil, for gods sake his daddy has links to oil.

While we're at it oil companies are making record profits?


Yeah...the hurricane did it:)

Hmm... let me see ... if I pump 20 million barrells of oil this week I'll get $55 a barrell, but if I only pump 15 million barrels I can get $67 a barrell?

O.K. I got it now!  I'll pump 12 million barrells  and get $80 a barrell!!! YEAH!!!!!!! (A lot less work too)

Rvertigo is correct it's the increased demand (we got like 2.5 billion people swtching from donkeys to cars as a primary mode of transportation :) ) not the peaks in oil production or decreased supply are causing the rise in gas prices.....nothing we can do about that, although it makes you think if helping chinese ecconomy was really worth it...at this point the only thing you can blam on government (not bushes admin, it had to be done before him) is the fact that this was not forseen and no actions were taken to at least softernthe impact.....katrina didn't help either of cause

at this point I say just take iraqies oil :) , the liberals still believe that this was the reason for the war (as ridiculous as that sounds), so i at least half the country will be happy that they could tell every one they know that they were right all along.....

Quote from: bannerso your telling me its been steady all these years...and suddenly it spikes double within a few years...yeah right.

And the innocent guy in charge has links to oil, all his people have links to oil, for gods sake his daddy has links to oil.

While we're at it oil companies are making record profits?

Yeah...the hurricane did it:)

Not to be argumentative, but just ask anyone who lives almost anywhere else in the world how much they pay for a gallon of gas.  I'd bet that in most cases, they pay about as much per liter as we do per gallon.  We have it pretty good in the U.S. when it comes to fuel prices, barring a few anomolies (like St. Croix, which hosts one of the largest refineries in the western hemisphere, and where gas is typically below $1 gallon, although I suppose that is technically in the U.S., so never mind).  Heck, most people in the U.S. pay more for -water- then they do for gasoline.  Go figure.

Oil is getting harder to pump, and the percentage of "sweet crude" that is easiest to refine into gasoline is declining.  From what I understand, this is partially due to the oil fields using "shortcut" techniques to get oil out of the ground faster (such as artificially increasing the pressure in the oil field by pumping water in).  Which is making the remaining reserves harder to access.  This is most likely the case in the Saud oil fields (representing the majority of the known oil in the world), and output there is probably at or near peak.  This has been happenning for a while now, but gas prices have been holding fairly steady.  

*shrug* Take it for what it's worth...I'm no expert.

Argue the politics all you want...think of the Iraq war as a personal favor to the Saud royal family if you choose...heck, blame the hurricane on the administration if you must, but realize that gas prices in the U.S. are significatnly below almost anywhere else in the world.  Ask someone from London how much they pay for gas (Pounds per Litre), or worse, someone from Australia.

I'm not saying that the price increases in the U.S. are a good thing, but that doesn't make it long overdue.  Maybe now people will start to realize that having an Expedition, Navigator, Hummer, etc. that gets 11mpg just because they like the way it looks (and they don't want anyone else to have a vehicle bigger than theirs) is a really dumb, arrogant, and uniquely American thing.

As an aside (as if this whole thing wasn't an aside):  why is it that you only see those stupid, made-in-Taiwan "support our troops" stickers on vehicles that get less than 15mpg?  Doesn't the irony of that hurt their heads?

Wow.  Sorry, I didn't mean to rant.  After all, we all get pretty good mileage on the GS, right?  Take that, uppity Prius drivers!

Quote from: Slavik(we got like 2.5 billion people swtching from donkeys to cars as a primary mode of transportation :) .....

Hey...I switched from a car to a donkey for my transportation (but don't tell Baby G I called him that...he's firmly convinced that he's more of a steed than any Gixxer could ever be!  :thumb: ).

So...just out of curiosity, why is gasoline only 3 bucks a gallon, but beer is more like 9 bucks a gallon...there's a WHOLE lot more beer available, so shouldn't it be MUCH cheaper????  :dunno:


:mrgreen:

To Chris_B, Slavik, Badger, and anyone else that's read up on peak oil...   :thumb:

How are gas prices looking for everyone?

In my hometown, the cheapest is $2.59 up to $2.65 per gallon.

In Syracuse area (about an hour from me) I filled up for $2.49/gallon.

I think other places are much lower. NYS sucks.  :roll:

EDIT: Figures above are for 87 octane

Regular is like $2.30 a gallon, premium is like 2.55 per gallon. not complaining.

Berkeley, CA is $2.30's...  not too bad.  Cost less than $5 to put 2.1 gallons in....

It's back to being close to the same price as a Gallon of Skim Milk ($2.29).

$2.23/gal (87 octane).  New York sucks.  :P

San Jose $2.49/gal for regular.

Around here gas is between $2.09 and $2.23 per gallon, 87 octane.

Still pretty high most places...  But, under the $3 mark.

Out in BFE it's pretty cheap, $2.50 range...

The other topics on gas prices made me search for an old one.  It's really funny reading people's posts about gas prices in 2005!  :)

$2.50/Gal?  HA!

Hah! yeah no kidding, those prices look good!!! I think reg was $4.18/gal this morning, didn't look on the way home.

Hello to you all from Italy!

Away from US (global) politics, here in Italy price at the pump is around
1.52 Euro/liter = 2,28 USD/liter = 8,57 USD/gallon ...  :cry:

... So you can smile!   8)

In any case, I'm back at the drawing board, trying to find out how to minimize consumption,
even at the cost of power and quick response (tweaking the carbs)...

best regards, and good riding!