Deepest sympathies to those lost in that tragedy, and i can not help but feel sorry for the people that have lost there homes, what gets me peed off is as soon as there is a disaster abroad, bush is there, have one close to home and he is on his holidays, whats that man thinking. New orleans looks like a war zone, people without water and food and shelter, bush seriously wants to get his finger out of his arse
I voted for bush, but right now, I am almost ashamed to be an american. this is ridiculous. Martial law should have been declared 4 days ago!
NObody had any idea of the chaos that would consume NO. The director of FEMA was talking about how it was just disaster after disaster, with the hurricane, the levees and then the floods. People are complaining that there is no coordination of effort. I just don't think we can understand the scope. Most of these agencies don't even have the ability to communicate to each other when they are on the ground. I was watching Paula Zahn on CNN lastnight and she was trying to blast the director of FEMA because he said they didn't even know until yesterday that people were gathered at the convention center. IF there's no communication how are people supposed to know? Look up FEMA, they only have like 2500 employees and another 4000 reservists basically. So let people criticize all they want, you try to evacuate 75,000 people using 2000. By the way, I hate the news but can quit watching it.
Quote from: jake42NObody had any idea of the chaos that would consume NO.
That is simply untrue and I can't believe Bush said that in his interview. There are numerous studies and publications that have looked at NO and did a very good job of predicting what would happen. They even did a good job of predicting how many poor or invalid people would be left behind.
The thing that should scare everyone is this is exactly the kind of response we will get after a large terrorist attack.
Psst bush pull you're army out of where they're doing nothing except wasting good peoples lives and have them help out their fellow man, if you can't take care of your own how on earth can you help others? Just my two cents.
Quote from: dyranPsst bush pull you're army out of where they're doing nothing except wasting good peoples lives and have them help out their fellow man, if you can't take care of your own how on earth can you help others? Just my two cents.
If you were to just up and go from iraq, THEN it would have been a waste of time. That would be a big mistake.
Don't use a storm to promote a politcal agenda. people are suffering. people are trying to get to them to help.
I am not blasting FEMA or the Red Cross for doing what they are supposed to do. the problem is they AREN"T DOING IT! The people at the convention center were told to go there when the Superdome was filled. The FEMA people said there were people there to help and when they got their, no one was there to help. This chaos on all sides. You have FEMA and the Red Cross messing up big time, you have groups of bad people who are going on killing and raping sprees because they can and they stayed for that reason alone and then you have the 15,000 people at the convention center who have relied on the US governement their entire lives and for some reason are waiting to be saved when most (not all, there are a bunch of old and sick people too) could start walking. 50 miles away is a regular life. 50 miles to food, shelter, water the beginnings of a new life. But do they walk? no they wait to be rescued or slaughtered by a bunch of stupid criminals who like killing people and have a chance at a free for all cause whose gonna stop em? send in the marines already!
Everyone dropped the ball on this one, not just 1 person or group, all people involved have screwed this up. There is no leadershipdown there. FEMA is supposed to be organized, they have not coordinated the efforts. you can't tell me that the director of FEMA didn't know there were people at the convention center, when everyone else in the country knows. somebody told him days ago. they are scared of being shot because of a small group of idiots. 11-man teams tried to get in the convention center area yesterday and were beaten back by mobs. They are trying to help but these people have been so riled up by themselves that they are attacking the very people who came to save them! that is stupidity.
ambulances stopped drivin in because people were shooting at them because they wouldn't stop to load up non-sick people. rescue helicopter are being shot at becuase they were rescuing other people and not them. how ignorant is that? efforts are being made, mistalkes are being made but everything is being compounded by a massive amount of people who, I'm sorry to say, are prone to being hostile towards the government. Not all of them are like that, most aren't but mob mentality has a way of creeping up on your and next thing you know, you killing each other and the very people who are trying to save eithr stop trying or have to shoot you back.
It is easy to critize the actions of other. What are you doing to help?
Quote from: dgyverIt is easy to critize the actions of other. What are you doing to help?
I have an answer to this - Living in a dull and boring place instead of New orleans.
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: dgyverIt is easy to critize the actions of other. What are you doing to help?
After the 9/11 Terrorist Attacks, I am very, very reluctant to donate money of any denomination to anything. There were many seemingly "credible" organizations soliciting donations to help the victims of 9/11 and plenty of them ended up being nothing but scams. Yes, the Red Cross is an EXCELLENT organization but many of the imposters posed as them anyway. :dunno: The whole media-scam-political agenda thing has got me kind of jaded. :(
QuoteIt is easy to critize the actions of other. What are you doing to help?
Well said!!
I personally wouldn't want to lead a life expecting the government to come help me or tell me what to do. We are a democracy not socialist. Helping people when something happens is what neighbors are for. And I would rather depend on my friends, neighbors, and family before I would trust the government to do anything. But I also make sure my family has food, water, and shelter any time something happens. That is my responibilty, not the governments.
as far what I am doing, I went to my cabinets the night Katrina hit and pulled as much food as I could spare and filled 2 good sized boxes. I then took those to the local red cross who told me to take the food back home because all the were accepting was money and blood. I would have to drive 75 miles to Oklahoma city to drop off the food at a "feed the children" center. So yeah, I am helping. I have also doanted some money to a few different organizations that will be delivering it to the people who need it. The Red Cross can kiss my ass, they have helped screw this up too.
Why wouldn't they accept staple food? :dunno:
They have no way of delivering it, would be my guess. With money, they can buy the things that are needed, instead of trying to figure out how to use whatever you give them. Once again, I don't know the situation, but that would be my guess.
Yea, probably now they will take it though, there seem to be a fair bit (in the 1000's ) that have landed in OK. BTW I love donating non perishable food and non $$ items. The charitable organisations are so poorly managed and spend so much of their intake on advertising and soliciting new donations, yea there is like 1000's tripping over each other and they all need to advertise and that is where the $$$ goes. I heard its as high as 92-98%.
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: jimbo1QuoteIt is easy to critize the actions of other. What are you doing to help?
Well said!!
I personally wouldn't want to lead a life expecting the government to come help me or tell me what to do. We are a democracy not socialist. Helping people when something happens is what neighbors are for. And I would rather depend on my friends, neighbors, and family before I would trust the government to do anything. But I also make sure my family has food, water, and shelter any time something happens. That is my responibilty, not the governments.
beleive me, if i was a neighbour, i would be the first to help anyone, when everything is lost, including food water and very basic essentials you need the help of the government, apparantly from what i have heard on the news here, the emergency services have all but gave up as they are overwhelmed, especially with the lawlessness that is going on, for gods sake do not take my post the wrong way, i would give my last penny away if it would benefit someone else more than me
Those people caught in chaos have my deepest sympathy, the news channels probably don't tell the exact truth, they all seem to have an agenda these days.
I was astounded when I heard the call to evacuate New Orleans, the logistics of evacuating half a million (?) people are just astounding, where do you evacuate them to? Can you have a contingency for that ? It looks like it was the right thing to do given the loss of life and damage in the "evacuated" city.
Tonight's news here sounded as though there was serious consideration being given to abandoning large parts of the city. As far as I know in modern times only one city has ever been abandoned, in the Ukrain ofter the Chernobyl "accident". The closest paralell is probably Kobe in Japan, a city in a wealthy society, a large port, very similar to New Orleans in many ways. I think about 6500 were killed in the Earthquake and a huge number made homeless. Kobe has not recovered to anything like its previous position but is recovering very slowly after, what, about six years? The biggest similarity is that the poorest suffered the most, aint that always the way. Business has not come back, the port has contracted, less jobs, less money, less incentive and ability to recover.
The US is, of course, the worlds biggest and most dynamic economy and half a million people being relocated (in the extreme case) is a very small percentage of population. The logistics are well within the capability of the US government. The problem is people, they wont just go here and there if they are told to. If you were born in New Orleans and have invested a lifetime living and working there is it realistic to just walk away ? I think it would be a very hard decision to make.
I hope those people affected are assisted or helped to help themselves and eventually get on with their lives but what is the future for the city itself? As citizens of the planet what can we do????????
The reason they only want money is definitely because they have no way of getting donated supplies to NO. The other reason is that they want the money to go to local businesses in order to maintain a flow of money into the region. It's a horrible tragedy. I just hope that this serves as a wake-up call to ensure that problem areas within the country are taken care of, shored up, and protected.
Quotebeleive me, if i was a neighbour, i would be the first to help anyone, when everything is lost, including food water and very basic essentials you need the help of the government, apparantly from what i have heard on the news here, the emergency services have all but gave up as they are overwhelmed, especially with the lawlessness that is going on, for gods sake do not take my post the wrong way, i would give my last penny away if it would benefit someone else more than me
That is the point, no government or agency can get that many people taken care of. And who in the government or in N.O. thought things would have been this bad. And lets just say, the government starts to stage supplies and relief every time a hurricane starts to track to the US. How much is that going to cost? Then, constant complaints by the media about the waste of the government.
My point is not that the government shouldn't do anything, but that able bodied people have a responibilty to take care of themselves. But I see an awful lot of able bodied people standing around complaining, when there is alot they could do to help relief come in. Instead they act like thugs and predators. Government relief is for those that CAN'T help themselves, they are who I want helped. I am just getting sick of hearing Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton blame everything on racism and telling these people the government OWES them something. We have created a society of people unable to care for themselves, and in doing so have lost alot of the freedom that America was founded on.
But what is needed now, is not a bunch of people compaining that the government isn't doing enough. But some people that will use their resourses and abilities to help our brothers and sisters in need.
The stat and loal governments created the mess, then everything was compounded by the the feds. There was no leadership solving the logistical problems. The red cross only wants money so it can be misapropriated. read this http://beenthere.typepad.com/been_there/2005/09/the_power_in_us.html
If these people can get this kind of response AND manage to get the supplies to NO form Illinois, then the Red Cross should be able to it from anywhere in the country! The people don't need money right now, they need supplies. People and business will give you the supplies, they aren't asking for a dime, so why does the red cross need money first and foremost? What, we have to pay for our fellow countrymen to get rescued in advance? what kind of bullshit is that?
I'm sorry, but this whole mess has less to do with race and class than it does with lack of leadership at the state and local levels. If something like this was coming in Oklahoma, I GUARANTEE you there would be buses loading people up and carrying them out before the storm hit, they had 3 days notice it was going to hit and gave out the MANDATORY EVACUATION! but they did nothing to get the poorest people who don't have the means get out of the city. That people is why there are so many deaths and stranded people. It is the state governments resposibility and DUTY to ask the federal government for help, which is something they didn't do until much later. There laws requiring the state to ask, otherwise, the government would be infringing on state rights and the laws are written to protect the states. All they had to do was ask and they didn't and the mess is the result. I am helping the cause by donating goods. Don't call me out on the carpet for critizing the botched efforts, I am doing my part.
to all you people bitching about what the goverment is not doing, what are YOU doing to help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... donating money to the red cross doesnt count. thats a B.S. way for you to feel better about doing nothing. If you really want to help go to www.hurricanehousing.org. I live in cincinnati (almost 1000miles from N.O.) I have already been contacted by the coordinators, they are making arrangments for 200 people to be bussed here. I have opened my home for anyone that needs it. I have voluntered to be deployed by my company to assist but have not been contacted yet, so I may be heading there soon don't no. I'm not saying im better then people that aren't doing anything, just saying quite bitching and HELP!!!!!!!!! also its a free country any one can run for office. if you can do better then the current administration then run for president yourself, if you don't like the way things are then change them
My wife and I are also donating clothes and toys for the kids to our local church which is bringing 4 families to stay at the church. I have offered to go get them as well. I will also be trying to assist them in getting jobs.
Quote from: 71buickfreakMy wife and I are also donating clothes and toys for the kids to our local church which is bringing 4 families to stay at the church. I have offered to go get them as well. I will also be trying to assist them in getting jobs.
:thumb: :thumb:
Quote from: ktrimto all you people bitching about what the goverment is not doing, what are YOU doing to help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... donating money to the red cross doesnt count. thats a B.S. way for you to feel better about doing nothing. If you really want to help go to www.hurricanehousing.org. I live in cincinnati (almost 1000miles from N.O.) I have already been contacted by the coordinators, they are making arrangments for 200 people to be bussed here. I have opened my home for anyone that needs it. I have voluntered to be deployed by my company to assist but have not been contacted yet, so I may be heading there soon don't no. I'm not saying im better then people that aren't doing anything, just saying quite bitching and HELP!!!!!!!!! also its a free country any one can run for office. if you can do better then the current administration then run for president yourself, if you don't like the way things are then change them
who's bitching, i live in the uk, look left when you read posts, all i can do is donate,NO option, live a little bit more than 1000 miles away
http://www.filecabi.net/v/file/hurricane-katrina-police-loot/wmv
haha, why did that kid steal a toy car? What is he going to do with it?
That really pisses me off, those people are not LOOTING! they are surviving! They are taking food, clothes sutff to clean themselves with. these people have nothing, thats not looting, looting is taking things for which you have absolutely no need like tvs, stereos, blenders, stuff like that. These people have no clothes, shoes food or even a way to clean the stench of dead bodies and rotten water off them. Give me a break.
but you did see that kid take that toy car that he can ride around, until the battery dies, which it is probably already dead, then just leave it in the street. there are many people doing that aswell!!! and that is looting.
Not looting?
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/09/04/the_looting_instinct/
Just one example from news.google.com
I can say from overseas right now in the Middle East that I am extremely proud of my fellow Coast Guardsmen/women in the role they are playing. So far the last time I checked the rescue count alone by the CG was over 10,000... with those being conducted by helicopter, rescue boats and land based personnel. The CG has small boat search and rescue/law enforcement stations in Grand Isle, New Orleans, Pascagoula, and Venice and the scattered reports I have been seeing is saying 1 or 2 of the stations are completely wiped out. The sad part is I also heard that 4 of my brothers are still missing/unaccounted for, they refused to leave their post, hopefully its a communications issue. For sake of discussion and maybe to bring my service into a different light, we were somewhat prepared. From the prestaged aircraft(majority flew during the conditons of the hurricane that most likely violated every FAA/USCG aircraft reg, just to get in the fight and do their jobs. Our small boat stations hauled their boats out and got them out of dodge, only to have them back in the water asap, and our D.A.R.T teams (Disaster Assistance Relief Teams a.ka. skiff rescue boats by the !%$!load) were rolling from the north during the storm. Our MSST Teams which are always ready deployable small boat/Law Enforcement/Tactical Teams are also on the ground, concentrating on rescues as well as maintaining order. All this info is coming to me from friends in the loop. On the flip side, I keep hearing about 20-30-40,000 military troops hitting the ground, heck, the entire CG doesn't even have that many people! It is a horrible ordeal to go through, for the victims, families, rescuers, etc....
US Coast Guardsman in Bahrain sends
I didn't say there hadn't been any looting, there is a lot of scum in NO. I was speaking specifically about the video that was shown. taking shoes isn't looting. And you know what, I don't mind a young kid taking a toy to keep him occupied while awaiting rescue. What, you would rather the kids continue to watch the dead bodies pile up and decompose in the 95+ 75% heat and humidity? I don't mind some kids taking toys. that is more responsible than letting them sit and watch the horror of people dying in front of them. As far as guns, have heard what is happening? We now have COMBAT operations going on in NO to restore order because the Mayor told the NO police to turn out its prisoners to the street! now we have tons of gangs (NO leads the nation in violent gang numbers and activity) and convicts and even worse, those who had been arrested and awaiting TRIAL roaming the streets of NO raping and murdering people. The first thing I would take would be some guns too! I keep guns in the house for this particular reason. You always think stuff like that can't happen here, well, obvioulsy it can. I would want a weapon to protect myself and my family as well. there have been looser gang members sitting on rooftops acting as snipers shooting people trying to get patients out of hospitals! taking a gun in that situation isn't looting, its SURVIVAL. Some of the people who took those guns are criminals, but if I take it to protect myself, its not. Taking something you can't use, to simply get big tv (this is how ignorant these people are, they take electronics when their houses are flooded and have no electricity) that is looting. clothes, shoes, food, hygeine products-survival. Hey if beer is the only thing left, at least its water, you won't dehydrate as fast than having nothing.
There was a big deal on a few blogs showing actual yahoo news depicting 7 or so images of black people looting food from stores. then it shows 2 white people described as 2 young people "FIND" some water and bread at a local grocery store. That is blatant bullshit.
hey,
let me just tell you the national new networks are bullshit. they are telling the truth to some degree but they are also hyping it up. Iraq is old news and the Bama girls missing in aruba is going no where so they jumped on this. It is a human interest story so they are on it. The federal gov is working now to get things going, i saw a constant stream of military copters and large aircraft headed to New Orleans INT. Now where does the blame falls I dunno. This storm was predicted to hit well east of N.O. in the start so officals have 2 becareful when then give an evac order. Yes some would of evacuated if they could of, but many are staying STILL! they think the water will go down soon and it will be fine, these arent exactly the most educated people i hate to say. Plus some of these people r just plane damn stupid. the ones @ the convention center could of walked 30 miles upriver to where i'm from and had water and an MRE. I wouldnt of sat around watchin the water goin up waitin for a bus, you have to act in self preservation. Granted some people cant exactly hike 20-30 miles. I will say I absolutely hate Gov Blanco, she seems like a mindless puppet that just passes along information her solution seems to be lets hold hands and pray and the water will go down. The mayor of N.O. tho has got my vote n e day of the week, he simply laid it on the line and said ya'll get off your asses and help us. Next thing for the city is to get the damn pumps runnin and drain the water.
-ash
I have to agree with you there ash. I had stated in a previous post that 100, hell 30 years ago there would never have been a convention center center situation because THEY WOULD HAVE WALKED OUT! These are people who have had the government run their lives for them their entire lives. The poorest of the poor, they live in the projects, most don't have jobs, etc. I am not blaming it all on them though. The governor AND the mayor should have been sending buses to go pick those people in the projects, which they didn't do. I realize they didn't know until a couple of days it was going to hit NO, but they new with enough warning to get things prepared for a mass evac, and 1 day would have been enough to move alot of those people. They had city buses charter buses, school buses, church buses could have called texas and oklahoma, it was stupid to do nothing. most people with money got out. these people needed help getting out and didn't get it.
I'll tell you what really sucks about the whole hurricane thing. I work for a large provider of cable and dsl internet, cable and dish tv, and VOIP or Vonage as most people know it as....and the call center is just getting flooded (no pun intended) with people claiming to be victims of the hurricane wanting to have free installs and free service for several months for all services we provide. 99.9% of the people calling in are dead beat non-pay accounts from us or people that already have an account with us and are no where near the hurricane area. I can not believe also that we have tons of people calling in upset because those that are real victims are getting special treatment. The only thing we are doing for them is giving them free install for the services they want and the first month free. I mean....come on!!!!! These people lost everything....right down to loved ones and pets. They lost every shred of there life....and some assholes (sorry admins) are wanting to benefit off of something that has nothing to do with them. I'm not a religious person at all....but I do feel bad for anyone who is a victim of something so bad that it forces them to lose something important to them. I just hope when these assholes die (sorry admins) they burn in hell....if there is one.