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WTF ... The police chief is it for NO said that ...
I have news for ya ... You're standing alive only cos Mother nature decided to let you live, Mother Nature ISN'T A TERRORIST. Mother nature isn't out to get you and your way of life ... whole lot of other ... You cannot get even with her, you cannot negotiate wiht her, you do not have the power to tame her. She has no personal agenda against anyone, and honestly doesn't even know you exist. Your own safety is statistically enhanced by staying away from her oft traversed routes and hope that she doesn't change her mind.
I understand the allure and charm of NO for someone who's never been there but - The whole Idea of rebuilding at that same location is stupid - the allure and the charm were in no small part due to the people that created and nurtured it.
But hey what do I know.
Cool.
Srinath.

You tame mother nature every day.  Every time the wind blows against a skyscraper or every time you drive across a dam.  Every time you stand in out of the rain, you've tamed mother nature.

As the police chief for New Orleans, he may have a bit of perspective on the subject, having lived in a city that was built below sea level.  

Beats me.  Poor, poor people.

You're not doing anythign to Mother nature by building a sky scraper, OK fine you're for that present time holding her at bay. What happens when you have a gale force wind suck the windows out the building like happened in Japan once. Point is ... you can only statistically play the odds. It makes no sense to build a 100 year flood resistant house in the middle of the Sahara ... Its all a statistic. The Cat 4 hurricane return period for NO was like 5-6 years. Cat 5's are ~35 years if I remember. So anything you build needs to be Cat 4 ready and needs to be maintained at that state else it will disappear in about 5-6 years. Its all a statistic. Cat 4 return period for Charlotte was I believe 60 years. Cat 3 was 15 years, (I dont remember exactly been couple years since I checked these for Charlotte). Its all a matter of playing the odds. Your window pane analogy only holds if you are talking about that 1 point in time. 2 weeks later a higher wind will lift the pane and you along with it off into oblivion. Now if you're going to be holding a windo pane, statistically you'd be more likely to survive if there is statistically less likely hood of that wind showing up. Poor people yes, but the instant somehting like this happens and everyone knew it was just a matter of time, somehow the whole country needs to pay then 50 - 100 billion. Like we dont have needs anywhere else. Now they want to rebuild it, so in 10 years another cat 4 will yank the damn thing out of the ground and fling it across the state like a match stick ... The eco system was tampered with, and the effects were exacerbated. Its time to take the hint and not fight mother nature. She's not a terrorist, and she really doesn't even know you exist. Time to take the hint. I'd agree that it might make a great tourist spot. Rebuild the historic areas and maybe the french quarter and just leave it as a tourist spot. but time to leave the wetlands and the swamps be. They are there for a reason. They have been there for 1000's of years and that is the best way to avoid this. bail them out this 1 time and just warn them of the future and leave them to make their choice.
Cool.
Srinath.

What about the dam analogy smarty pants?  Can I have a 3000 word diatribe on the Hoover Dam?  And by your logic, maybe it is a good idea to build a flood proof house in the Sahara.

Actually, I'm just messing with you man.  My point about skyscrapers was that they are engineered to sway, sway, sway with the wind, otherwise they'd fall.  

There was always this feeling, whenever I was in New Orleans, that any city below sea level is operating on borrowed time.   Just such a shame.  I hope I get a chance to visit there again when this all gets sorted out.

Quote from: seshadri_srinathbail them out this 1 time and just warn them of the future and leave them to make their choice.

So we only choose places to live that are safe? Ok..let's figure out where is the safest place to live, and let's all move there!  :thumb:

Ok....what locations are without hurricanes and earthquakes? Which places don't freeze over (besides h3ll  :lol: ) or get too hot to stand? Which places can we be assured will have no natural disasters? Wait...we need to think about terrorists, too, so we'd better not live by big cities, airports, shopping malls (this one hurts  :? ), or near any ports.

So...what's left?  :P

Quote from: Jake DThere was always this feeling, whenever I was in New Orleans, that any city below sea level is operating on borrowed time.   Just such a shame.  I hope I get a chance to visit there again when this all gets sorted out.

Perhaps they can turn it into another Venice. ;)

Seattle?  Portland?  
Atlanta?  Memphis?

Based upon your list, Pandy, Kansas City is very dangerous.

We have intense heat, flooding, extreme cold, snow, and the threat of earthquake (re: New Madrid fault line, which last time caused the Mississippi to run backwards and rang the Liberty Bell in Phili).  

But I feel pretty safe here because I have learned to tame mother nature. :thumb:

Quote from: pandy

Quote from: seshadri_srinathbail them out this 1 time and just warn them of the future and leave them to make their choice.

So we only choose places to live that are safe? Ok..let's figure out where is the safest place to live, and let's all move there!  :thumb:

Ok....what locations are without hurricanes and earthquakes? Which places don't freeze over (besides h3ll  :lol: ) or get too hot to stand? Which places can we be assured will have no natural disasters? Wait...we need to think about terrorists, too, so we'd better not live by big cities, airports, shopping malls (this one hurts  :? ), or near any ports.

So...what's left?  :P

Oy ... its just a question of statistically probable. Yea you are freaking insane for living on active quake zones. However you're very resistant to being hit by Cat 5 hurricane  :thumb:  ... Yea I knew Californians love the argument that everyplace is unsafe. OK close your eyes and imagine - all insurance companies decide to not write Home policies in CA anymore. You still want to live there ... Its all a matter of probability. Its why you wear a helmet and your proctective gear. There are plenty of statistically less risky places than both CA and NO. And some of these places dont actually really have snow. Heck AZ and NM as well as UT etc. Now OK dont run to the side of a cliff in Colorado and complain when the thing slides down. No reason to all run there and live there ... just when its done and gone, dont repeat the same dumbass mistake. Or fine do so and the Federal govt wont pay up the next time this happens. Below sea level = borroed time, and they knew it and that was what added an edge to life there. The bars and social spots will simply be flying when hurricanes are comming, they know they might die and they wanna take it to the very edge and look at that danger and get off on it, the possibility that they might die just makes the high even better. Now you do that, and when you almost die or someone right next to you dies, you run and ask big brother for help and a hand out. WTF is that.
Cool.
Srinath.

Hoover Dam tames mother nature.

Say it: (your turn).

Its all a matter of odds ... it does tame that river, what if that river floods, OK fine its got a design capacity and overage built in. What if that is exceeded. OK it may be statistically unlikely, and we may have found the perfect spot for building a damn, and may have found the perfect river to do so, but you still have a return period and a statistical possibility. Now from one level to the next, the return periods increase exponentially. Like Cat 3 for the NO delta is 3 a year, Cat 4 is once in 5-6 years, cat 5 is 35 years. So statistically you have odds vastly against the possibility of that Hoover dam get overwhelmed by flooding. You want to build everyhting for Cat 5 in NO, OK then theoretically a cat 6 should blow them away. I believe that would be a 150 year event (again just a hypothesis) so build it for cat 5 and live there and complain when a Cat 6 in 2150 blows it into Michigan ... Just dont tell nature she didn't want ya ... In reality a Cat 5 in CA is also a statistical possibility. Once in 150 years maybe. Its all a matter of odds. Charlotte also has a possibility of cat 5 as well as a 7.5+ earth quake. Just that the numbers dictate that its not economical to build it for that. A cat 3 is what we need to consider, cos ~ 15 years is a window we do want to think about.
Cool.
Srinath.

While we do our best to tame mother nature to completely do it would be impossible, she will have her way.  We can make mother nature a little more happy by treating her better ie pollution and such and maybe she would be more understanding.  Move to Indiana nothing happens here, trust me, nothing.

Try and fit your melon around this little nugget:

Every day that you wake up, there is a 1 in 20,000 chance an Earth ending meteor will slam into the planet.

I know.  I just blew your mind.  But that is an actual statistic.  I saw it on either the History Channel, the Discovery Channel, or National Geographic Channel last week.

ajgs500 - Correct. The mother nature having her way is exactly what is measured by the return periods and probability studies as well as environmental impact studies etc. Its still very inaccurate, and still in serious flux cos we are constantly warming up the atmosphere and altering our world in ways that were never forseen. but atleast the effect of global warming ... we may not have the polar flip ...
Jake D - Yea 1 in 20,000 is very very miniscule odds, its considered a statistical impossibility. Heck 1 in 500 is considered impossible. Now here is the other question. If a meteor is bound for earth that had the size and composition to end life on earth as we know it do you know when we'd see it. It will be a naked eye object years before it will make impact. You will have to device a way to stop it then like Bruce Willis did. But you'd get plenty of time. Might not help, but you'd know we're screwed ...
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: ajgs500While we do our best to tame mother nature to completely do it would be impossible, she will have her way.

Yep.  And when we build dams, she has her way.  We turn the normal course of a river, and it has severe consequences for soil erosion, taking away species that we find out 100 years later we really should have kept, drying out some areas that bite us in the butt one way and swamping areas that bite us in the butt another way...
And in a million years, nature won't know that dam ever existed.  The planet will still be going when we've killed ourselves off.

Saying a dam tames nature is like one of those one-shot worker bees stinging an elephant and saying, in its death throes, "I showed him!!"

Quote from: Jake DSeattle?  Portland?  
Atlanta?  Memphis?

None of those places are safe either...

Seattle - Earthquakes, flooding, snow/ice, crazy-ass wind storms
Portland - Earthquakes, tsunamis, Oregonians
Atlanta - Hurricanes, flooding, Georgians
Memphis - Tornados?  :dunno: , Elvis impersonators

It's all about calculated risk.  There's no Earthquake season...  You can't guarantee that at least one quake is going to tear up a trailer park every year.

If you live in flood plains, you should expect floods...  

If you live in a stilt-house hanging off the side of a dirt cliff, you should expect to find your house at the bottom of the cliff after heavy rain...

If you live in "Tornado Alley," you should expect tornados...

If you live in LA, you should expect your side mirror to be knocked off at least once a year...

If you want to be "safe" you'll just have to kill yourself...  Nowhere is safe.

Quote from: Roadstergal

Quote from: ajgs500

Saying a dam tames nature is like one of those one-shot worker bees stinging an elephant and saying, in its death throes, "I showed him!!"

Really?  I think it is like saying, "Hey river!  You're my Buddha Loves You! Help me make electricity!"

quote:
Seattle - Earthquakes, flooding, snow/ice, crazy-ass wind storms
Portland - Earthquakes, tsunamis, Oregonians
Atlanta - Hurricanes, flooding, Georgians
Memphis - Tornados?  , Elvis impersonators
end quote:
seattle- left lane drivers, people that call you a day late.
portland- burned out hippies that drive 45 in a 65 zone.
alanta- idiots doing 90 in a 65 zone, olympic bombing.
memphis- untill you get west of the mississippi you in a hurricane zone, and it's just like arkansaw only they have a great blues scene and your more likely to get shanked when walking from the bar.

on my list of places to live is Chyenne, Moab, then Denver, then Santa Fe.

RVertigo - Yes There is no place that is safe, You're just statistically less likely to be found at the bottom of a ravine if you lived 800 miles from the nearest ravine and in a desert.
Jake D - The river will be your Buddha Loves You and make you electricity just fine till one day in a tiny rippling earthquake the huge ass glacier that feeds that river breaks off and runs down stream as a block of Ice the size of Lower Manhattan and it will wash your electricity making gizmo clear into the gulf of Mexico. Also making electricty with water that runs in a river is what I call working with nature, not against nature. Putting up Levees and setting up pumps to keep out the ocean in a Category 5 hurricane is IMHO trying to fix a bridge with duct tape before an earth quake.
Cool.
Srinath.

The safest place in the US is the mountian areas of north GA, barring a few tornados in the low lying areas.  Its why the Appalachian mountians look like they do, erosion and time.

But I don't even understand the idea of not building back the city of NO.  We don't throw in the towel because of one horrendous storm! Those levies were built to resist level three storms, and they held as long as they could against cat 5 surge. So we'll build them to resist cat 5. We'll put in better pumps. We'll impose better emergency planning. And Nola will go on as a TREASURE to the country.

We are Americans. We fight for our own, even when the odds are against us. New Orleans is not a lost cause. NEW ORLEANS WILL PREVAIL, AND THE WHOLE COUNTRY SHOULD BE AT THEIR BACKS!

we were till they started shooting at the helos.

Levees to resist cat 5 will be cost prohibitive, and the return period of a Cat 5 for NO is under 35 years. It will be destroyed before its even completed. You'd also have to build everything in that region to stand Cat 5 winds and ocean surges. You will find out soon enough. The spirit is there and everyone wants it. However its not going to be worth the expense. It may cost you 150,000 to build a 2,000 sqft Cat 3 house, and closer to 250,000 to build a Cat 5. You'd find that people will prefer to buy the 150,000 house in AR or TX or SC or GA instead of 250,000 in NO. Yes they all want it now. Just print up the numbers and ask them to hand over the insurance $$ and see what happens. The same damn thing as the handlebars. The first dozen or so that said they wanted it, I never heard from them ... ever ... Also Lower manhattan after 9/11, everyone wanted it rebuilt, and at this point there is still some unity because it was a terrorist act, but still the original sponsors of that plan have dropped by the way side, as has the original plan. Simply put ... wait till the bill comes, and we'll see who's left standing. I am just saying we shouldn't even take it that far, its dead, we had a great few hundred years, its done, memories are forever, and we hope to capture the mystique of the old NO in a new to be determined and safer location.
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: davipuseattle- left lane drivers, people that call you a day late.

In Seattle, the left lane is for slow driving only.  The right lane is for really slow driving, seeing how fast you can come to a stop, and merging at 20 MPH under the speed limit.  The center lane is only used for traveling from the right or left lanes.

And...

:nana: Bastard!

:nana:  you too  :P   atleast in oregon the old fogies stay in the right lane most of the time.

Quote from: davipuin oregon the old fogies stay in the right lane most of the time.

They're pretty good about that in OR...  Their only redeeming quality...  If you ask me.

and the 5 is in alot better condition.

Quote from: seshadri_srinathSimply put ... wait till the bill comes, and we'll see who's left standing. I am just saying we shouldn't even take it that far, its dead, we had a great few hundred years, its done, memories are forever, and we hope to capture the mystique of the old NO in a new to be determined and safer location.

Yep.

In the old days, cities sprung up around ports.  Now we have the ability to design them rationally.  Why throw that opportunity away?  Why not pull something good out of a very painful event?

Not only does it no longer make sense to build cities around ports - it's a security risk, seperate from the nature risk.  The economic justification for cities has changed.  Will we stubbornly ignore reality in the desire to Have Things The Way They Used To Be?  Will we do away with pavement, too, in the original spirit of the city?

"Listen, lad. I built this kingdom up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was swamp. Other kings said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built it all the same, just to show 'em. It sank into the swamp. So, I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So, I built a third one. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp, but the fourth one... stayed up! "

Quote from: davipuand the 5 is in alot better condition.

Around these parts, there's no "the" on "the 5."  It's "5" or "I 5."

well around these parts it's "the 5".

Quote from: RoadstergalIn the old days, cities sprung up around ports.  Now we have the ability to design them rationally.  Why throw that opportunity away?

This just isn't the American way!

Quote from: RoadstergalWill we stubbornly ignore reality in the desire to Have Things The Way They Used To Be?  Will we do away with pavement, too, in the original spirit of the city?

Yup and doubtful! We must Have Things The Way They Used To Be, but only in The Ways That Suit Us!  :lol:

Quote from: Roadstergal"Listen, lad. I built this kingdom up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was swamp. Other kings said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built it all the same, just to show 'em. It sank into the swamp. So, I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So, I built a third one. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp, but the fourth one... stayed up! "

For now  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  ... yea all the crap you built your castle with have now toxified the swamp, the fishies have died and the crocodiles are now prowling the streets looking for food. ... but Your castle is up ...  :thumb:
Cool.
Srinath.

the standard republican stance on the issue:
(http://a.im.craigslist.org/kT/nu/TR84As3v7GMzILxWij3ccFJHXjyF.jpg)

the standard democratic responce:
(http://a.im.craigslist.org/TA/s8/tkjp2n9PXu3ohfr1BGqbx9YhB0mp.jpg)

and still nothing is done.

Quote from: RVertigo

Quote from: Jake DSeattle?  Portland?  
Atlanta?  Memphis?

None of those places are safe either...

Seattle - Earthquakes, flooding, snow/ice, crazy-ass wind storms
Portland - Earthquakes, tsunamis, Oregonians
Atlanta - Hurricanes, flooding, Georgians
Memphis - Tornados?  :dunno: , Elvis impersonators

Portland is it, has these huge multi storied match box apartments, and right across the street (highway) there is huge stretches of empty land. Evidently the city ends at that highway and no one can build on that empty land. Yea and that has given it many awards. Like WTF. Poor planning is the main problem in 99% of the country. we have land, lots and lots of it. What do we do, we all go and live in the same 2 block radius. Like WTF, we cant park, we cant walk and heck we cant even sneeze wihtout getting snot on a dozen people. I just think people are turned on by other people's body fluids ...  :dunno:  ... Yea even Charlotte, instead of openeing out and living in houses and working in offices where there is good open spaces and plenty of parking and trees and wide open views from your office ... we got a 5-6 block size of there huge ass buildings, and more comming, and every one is sitting in traffic to get here, then we have busses that try to take people there, and people dont use it cos its slow and ugly and noisy and in convenient and then they get here and drive round and round trying to park, then pay $20 a day to park and make it to work. Yea makes a lotta sense moron. Just freaking open up the thing, dont let people over build and build up wihtout planning for access and parking and just plain make them spread out. We dont need no 90 storied buildings, we have freaking acres of open space 5 miles out ... just build there. 2 stories and make for parking and open spaces and just get the whole match box thing out of your mind. Yea no one cares ... get hit with a 5 hurricane and we still want to build the freaking castle on the same filthy swamp ...
Cool.
Srinath.

when was the last time that portland had a tsunami?

It is not, and it should never be a case of taming or beating "Mother" nature, sometimes we can engineer things to make her work in our favour, like the Hoover dam analogy but once we start getting carried away with the idea of beating her we will come to grief.

Living on an island where about 60 million people live, none more than 80 miles from the sea and lots of it very low or below sea level we have an acute interest in coastal defence etc,. We used to fight coastal erosion all the time just about everywhere it occured. During the 1970s and 80s we started to look critically at what we were doing, where we left erosion alone, nature to its course if you like, we found that land disappeared in places and apeared in others by reversal of the process. The island stayed about the same size but constantly changed shape.

Considering the expense of defending the coastline successive Goverments decided to simply stop doing it except where there were already large urban connobations. Since then several villages and small communities have simply been allowed to fall into the sea.

I am sure if we were starting tomorrow we would not build on flood plains or below sea level etc but our problem, as mankind, is that these places already exist. NO being a prime example. If you don't come from around there or have any connections it's easy to say "Let it go" etc but many people have a lifetime investment in the place and for them it ain't so simple. Can a nation walk away from a city of 600,000? In terms of numbers to be assimilated elsewhere it's a small problem but for civic and state pride, not to mention national psi it may be a very much more complex decision.

I am sure the money and the engineering exists to put it all back in place but it's a big job that would take years and years, it may be quicker to build an alternative (ANO) or rebuild with some very big differences, especially that canal that seems to have been the pathway that led the water into town. I don't envy those that will make those decisions, they are on a hiding to nothing for sure.

I don't believe we can fight nature but sometimes we can cajole her along with our interests, even make her work for us, like wind, tide, hydro and solar energy etc but now and again we have to pay a price. The issue in this case is the "what if" question, how long before we can expect a similar event? Is it worth it? The engineering is possible. Politics is the art of the possible. Someone will have to answer the Is it worth it? question.
Politicians are not noted for the most rational decisions, may the Lord (or Mother Nature) help them. If they had waited for Political approval the great Victorian engineers would have stayed at home, instead they built the world as we know it.

I agree.  I think the water will be pumped away, the streets cleaned-up, services restored, and people will come back.  The 25 story high rise, affected only on the first floor is too valuable to just abandon.  They have flood insurance, no doubt.  I really don't understand the theory behind writting the whole city off forever.  That is just stupid.

I don't think we tame Mother Nature, no matter what we build.  We are only adapting to mother nature.

Quote from: Jake DI agree.  I think the water will be pumped away, the streets cleaned-up, services restored, and people will come back.  The 25 story high rise, affected only on the first floor is too valuable to just abandon.  They have flood insurance, no doubt.  I really don't understand the theory behind writting the whole city off forever.  That is just stupid.

No kidding.  Some people argue it'll cost too much to rebuild.  I think they'll lose too much to turn their backs on the city...  I think we all know what's gonna happen.  

I saw on the news at lunch that a Mexican Army convoy arrived bringing supplies and doctors, glad to see Mexico lending a hand (and for us accepting)  :thumb:

Quote from: Cal PriceNO being a prime example. If you don't come from around there or have any connections it's easy to say "Let it go" etc but many people have a lifetime investment in the place and for them it aint so simple. Can a nation walk away from a city of 600,000?

That would be an appropriate argument if we were talking about buttressing an existing city against an encroaching storm.  But now the damage is done.  And since we have to rebuild from something that's so close to scratch already, we have the option to spend the same time and money and effort - or, more likely, less time and money and effort - building a more sensibly located urban area instead of rebuilding in that exact same spot.

I know we have a connection to the past.  But I don't see the sense in screwing over the future for the sake of the dreams of the past.  Suppose you build it in the same spot so it's twice as strong.  And only half the people die the next time.  That's still unacceptable.

This seems really obvious to me too.  Oh well.

Quote from: davipuwhen was the last time that portland had a tsunami?

We had a "warning" a few months ago...  It wouldn't hit Seattle though... We're way too far from the coast.  Parts of Portland might get it though... :dunno:

But when dealing with government and red tape, it will never cost less to do it one way over another, and cutting through red tape to get to "reasonable" ain't likely to happen, either.

At this point, it seems likely that NO will be built again in the same spot, and most likely in the same way...there might be some upgrades, but I'd lay odds (unfortunately) that there won't be a huge effort (at least not the effort there SHOULD be) to build now to save lives/money later. :dunno:

Yea right ... I even doubt many of the businesses are going back there, before rebuilding people will have to shop for insurance and jobs and facilities. My guess is 90% of NO will have discovered other places Baton rouge, Alexandria, Houston, Shreveport, Dallas, Atlanta and heck even Charlotte and figured yea this is as good as any. BTW the people in Charlotte are looking for jobs and some have found jobs already. They got here Sat and Sun I believe. Yea we will rebuild it, but with none of the original people. Its begining to look more like the ones that are not damaged and look like they will get out unscathed are going to wish it had been destroyed. Lets see.
Cool.
Srinath.

Roadstergal, I was not putting foreward a view that the U.S. should or should not rebuild like-for-like, I was merely trying to encapsulate the enormity of the dilemma. Trying to straighten out the question in my own mind. It's the sort of thing that makes me think "This is too big an issue to be left to Politicians" but in the final analysis who else will, or can make those decisions?

Whatever they finally decide I hope at least some of them are better than the general reputation of politicos worldwide. Courageous visionaries who are not putting getting re-elected as their prime objective are what is going to be needed and there are not that many of them about.

The people will come back.  They will build.  They will repair.

~ Terrence Mann

Quote from: Jake DThe people will come back.  They will build.  They will repair.

~ Terrence Mann

Yea ... and what will they do in the freaking 2-3 years it will take before they can clean it up and build ... e-coli and cholera and other chemical and bio toxins dont just vanish Into the ground, and into the sea and into the lake and it will come back over and over and over ...
And this is one freaking disgusting thing I see with (dont want to name names but you know who - Plural ) Just because someone said it doesn't make it true ... who the Frock cares what he said, it may apply in once sense and be totally true, in another situation it will be so wholly misleading ... Even Gandhi who was on the nose in some was waaaaay off in some cases ... So I am going to start quoting Davipu and any other nonsense I can cook up ...
Cool.
Srinath.

your all screwed now.

Yea and a great man once said of New Orleans ...

"your all screwed now."

-Davipu

See how it works.  :lol:
Cool.
Srinath.

Srinath gives me $40.

Quote from: davipuSrinath gives me $40.

And another great thinker once said ... "dont cry in your beer cos srinath owes ya $40, just shove it up your a#s ... "

See how it works ...  :lol:
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: seshadri_srinathAnd another great thinker once said ... "dont cry in your beer cos srinath owes ya $40, just shove it up your a#s ... "
See how it works ...  :lol:

I hope you don't mean shove the BEER anywhere....that would be a waste of a perfectly good beer!!  :?

I wonder if beer is absorbed more quickly anally??????

You are a sick, SICK woman!!!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Ya but I didn't start the beer up your arse talk!!!

Quote from: ajgs500I wonder if beer is absorbed more quickly anally??????

it's more potently absorbed that way.

read this only if you really want to know more about rectal alcohol absorption
http://members.aol.com/OldRope/etohenma.htm

Since NO is my home I take serious offense to anyone that says doze it and give up. Kiss my ass I say. Move New Orleans?!? Its a freakin port city, it is where it is for a reason! Forget about New Orleans eh? Have you seen what gas prices have done w/o it up and running, yes this country does need it rebuilt. Move the oil industry else where you say. Ok, move the Mississippi River too then moron. New Orleans is stupid for having levees that could not with stand a cat 5? Thank your federal gov for that, NO is known as the city that care forgot. The fed gov. has never given NO enuff funding to do things right. The levee system was recently completed using funding designated 30 years ago.

A brief status report: Parts of Jeff parish are up and running. The airport along w/ most of it will be open by the 19th of THIS month w/ Jeff Parish open also. In as soon as 3 weeks parts of uptown NO will have people returning.

Plus this is not the first time this has happened in this city and its probally not the last. The businesses are here, are returning, and never left. And this whole rebuilding the city BS i'm so tired of hearing about on the news. The city is there. Trees have fallen, some buildings will have to be destroyed, but go two blocks over from the floods to see some houses that never had water in them and are perfectly intact still with residents. Some areas have standing water w/ a toxic soup that will probally have to be bulldozed. The city could probally stand to loose some of those areas. Others had water in them, big freakin deal. If you live in Southeastern Louisiana you are used to flooding. You know which roads to not take on rainy days. My parents subdivision has the streets flood a couple times a year. People in NO are used to flooding. You rip out the carpets and lower sheet rock its something your born knowing.

And as far as the toxic stuff pumped into the lake well. Back in the 80's you couldnt go in the lake cuz it was too toxic, so that is nothing all that hard to get used to there. The city of New Orleans is there and the people of New Orleans are chomping at the bit to get to work.

-ash

Yeah, Ashman, I totally agree.  I can't wait for my next visit to the Big Easy.  I think it is going to be better than ever!

What was the flooding like in the French Quarter and Garden District?  Do you think that that area came out alright?

OK Lemme ask you ... 35 years ago they didn't do it right ... it was under built, and even so they did a lousy job. You think now its going to be better. Its a port city, but before the port will be re useable, many of the shipping lines will have moved to other ports. The parts that are not under water are the wealthy part of NO right. I'd say leave them there, the poor can move to better locations as they already have as evacuees. Let rich get the shaft for once ... and leave them alone wishing that they had gotten washed away and gotten insurance $$ and federal grant $$ ...
They levees and pumps aren't going to be built any better really, contractors and every one involved will cut corners and in a few years we'll have this happen again. The ground has also absorbed toxins and as is its very un healthy to move back there till all of that can me estimated and mitigated. Years in reality to do a good job. I'd say stick it to the man ... and leave it be.
Cool.
Srinath.

The big problem with this argument is that the poor already feel as though they've gotten the shaft, because they've had the only home many of them have every known washed right out from under them. I'm betting that the only goal they see in the future is to rebuild and go home. Taking someone's home away from them permanently *is* giving them the shaft. It's saying, "you're poor, so we're not going to rebuild for you." That might not be what YOU mean, but that's how the NO folks likely would see it. As for letting the rich get reamed....they're the only ones who likely would have insurance anyways. The "logical" thought might be that this is a port city that is below sea level, hasn't had adequate levee shoring, and, heck, it's gone anyways.

Well, on the human level, these are peoples' homes that have washed away, and they want to go home. The answer now (and has been for those 35 years) is to FUND the appropriate protections. That's the reality of it...

Quote from: seshadri_srinathThe parts that are not under water are the wealthy part of NO right. I'd say leave them there, the poor can move to better locations as they already have as evacuees. Let rich get the shaft for once ... and leave them alone wishing that they had gotten washed away and gotten insurance $$ and federal grant $$ ...

As Illogical as it sounds ... if your house was washed away ... you'd be lucky in this case ... The water took everythign away ... but the govt and insurance will cover most if not all of it. Now instead of going back to the polluted earth and much higher risk, you start afresh in a new city. Remember even if you went back and founf your house intact ... the grounbd is still polluted, the levees are going to take years to re build and jobs aren't going to come by easy. Life as you knew it has changed, if not forever atleast for some time to come. Now whatever you had house or condo or whatever if insurance was there to pay for it, great, if you had no insurance then its still remains that you'd have to start over. Instead of doing so in a dirty and polluted place, do so in a new place. So only those that have not been affected as in their houses are standing and un flooded, will have been affected. They dont get to start over, they dont get insurance $$ and they have to manage in the new sea of filth that now covers (or once covered NO) ... and they have to deal with the possibility that a hurricane can hit the place before the levees are finished and this can repeat itself. If you lost your house, chances are your entire city block went, and probably most of the other places that you thought of as your neighbor hood. That is IMHO enough reason to get a new neighborhood.
Cool.
Srinath.

So you think that the ground will be toxic for years?  Really?  Really?  

Odd, that.

Edit: If you've ever been in the French Quarter, you know that the ground has always been pretty toxic.  Not a good place to skin your knee.  I'm not sure the toxic ground argument is going to hold much water here (no pun intended).

OK well the news said it was toxic, I assume they were talking about being freshly toxified, if they were talking about 100's of years of toxicity  who knows ... I never went to French quarter and skinned my knew ... so its always toxic ... now here is another question then ... are these people nuts ... why do they want to live in that toxic ground (especially if its been toxic for a loooong time ... ) BTW french quarter wasn't under water now right ...
Yea the only home they knew ... doesn't hold water (no pun here) ... now they have been out and are going to have to live outside NO for atleast a few months ... maybe that will open their eyes a bit to the rest of the world ... I love charlotte Its my favorite place that I have seen/lived in so far (with a small exception to Sacramento CA in the mid 90's) but I lost my house here and i will not have any second thought about moving to where I get the best deal ... Just because you dont know somethign doesn't mean its bad. Lots of great places to live just in the great South east ... forget south west ... or the rest of the US.
Cool.
Srinath.

When it floods, even in Charlotte, the sewers back up because they become flooded too.  That is what happened.  It isn't exactly Nuke 'em High in NO.  What they've got is some water with E. Coli in it.  When it goes away, the threat should be over.  

But yeah, Bourbon Street was pretty nasty sometimes, but very, very entertaining.  And I was mugged there and I still love it.

I'm glad it isn't flooded, if in fact it isn't.

Water with e coli ... is that it ... I thought they flooded a bunch of trash dumps and cemetries and various other chemical dumps and manufacturing/storing places and all of that has washed into the water and that was what was refered to as toxic soup ...
In charlotte as well as in any other modern city if it floods we'd have storm drains back up, very different from sewers as they have pointed out to us repeatedly. The seweage system is pretty much air tight if you believe the schpeel ... so whatever you do storm water and sewage wont mix ... OK whatever ...
Cool.
Srinath.

We have had a rash of sewer back ups here due to flooding.  Most houses weren't built with back flow valves.  If there is a breach in the sewer system, it will back up, which can be a nasty deal.
Storm water can infiltrate a sewer system and cause a back flow, so don't believe the hype.  You could be right about the chemicals though.
I dunno.

Yea who ever will belieive the contractors. They dont have the concern to drop a $2.99 temp compensating valve in the shower so when someone flushed you dont get cooked in the shower ... The morons smugly say you can install it ... yea right ass hole, you need to yank out the plumbing in the whole house to do so, cos you need to drop it in before the cold line splits off for the flush ...
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: seshadri_srinathnow here is another question then ... are these people nuts ... why do they want to live in that toxic ground (especially if its been toxic for a loooong time ... ) BTW french quarter wasn't under water now right ...
Yea the only home they knew ... doesn't hold water (no pun here) ...Just because you dont know somethign doesn't mean its bad. Lots of great places to live just in the great South east ... forget south west ... or the rest of the US.

Being dirt poor and owning almost nothing is different from the middle-class mentality of, well, if it doesn't work here, we'll go elsewhere! Even my middle-class mentality says to me, "if a big, phat earthquake leveled California, I'd be first in line to come back." Why? Cuz I love California. I can't imagine living anywhere else. Yes, the big ol' mansions that you can buy in other states for what we pay for a bathroom here sounds attractive, but I haven't left yet! ;) I won't even bother addressing the question of whether or not I'm nutz, cuz we all know the answer to THAT. :P:P:P

You're sorta missing the point ... but let me modify your scenario for this situation ...
Ok lets start with what you said - CA has been hit by an earthquake, but instead of everyhting levelled, only the poor areas have been levelled, and the mansions and huge palaces are still left intact, with people still living in them wihtout a hair on their head ruffled, and what the earth quake also did other than kill 1000's (ok 100's) of the poor, it also levelled or severely crippled the businesses that we need to work for. It also caused an up heaval of the ocean floor in the bay and ended up pulling the nuclear waste we dumped there in the 60's and 70's in concrete barrels, and sprayed it all over the place. Through all of this you and your SO managed to load up your cars with all your meagre lifes possessions and the kids and the dog and the cat and the GS and all of the pruple you can find (why not, its just going to get crushed in the earthquake anyway) ... and managed to sit in traffic for hours (isn't that normal for CA  :?  ... ) spend 1000's in gas and managed to get into the safety of Nevada and managed to drive yourself into lets say Colorado. then 2-3 weeks later they say OK all this is gone, and basically your whole city block and for 100's of blocks all around its basically rubble, and smimming in toxic crap ... but you can go back.
OK now what are you thinking ...
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: seshadri_srinathThrough all of this you and your SO managed to load up your cars with all your meagre lifes possessions and the kids and the dog and the cat and the GS and all of the pruple you can find (why not, its just going to get crushed in the earthquake anyway) ... crap ... but you can go back.OK now what are you thinking ...

Three things:

1. Why'd you pack up all that purple LAST??  :?
2. How soon can I go home!???  :)
3. Can't we leave the kids behind and pack more purple???  :lol:

OK you can go home now ... but as soon as you do ... the purple crap will turn kawasaki green, melt and run into a puddle and glow in the dark ... from all the radioactivity ...  :lol:  ...
You know - What is worse than smog ... radioactive smog ...
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: seshadri_srinaththe purple crap will turn kawasaki green, melt and run into a puddle and glow .

This is sooo cruel...even for YOU!  :?  :P

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Ha ha ... you're the one that wanted to go back to a toxic wasteland ... and evidently you wanted the kids to sit in that radio active dump ... so I decided to hit you where it might hurt ... cos kids sure weren't gonna do it ...
Cool.
Srinath.

Heck no....I'd park the kids there myself.  :nana:

But don't be messin' with my purple!! That's just cruel! Evil!! Mean!!!  :lol:

Do things like this, and you'll spend eternity in a purgatory of PURPLE!  :P

It didn't take long for you to get mean again after your dear wife and child returned home!  :?

:lol:  :kiss:

Oh man...I *like* that: PURGATORY of PURPLE!! Muahahaha!

You are one strange puppy aren't ya ... its just a freaking bike ... honestly ... its not even a bike, its just a color ... $3 worth of paint and even if you paid someone to do it, maybe $100 in labor can make anyhting purple ... Its just a pile of chemicals ... its not a person, its not even an animal. It has no feelings, it has no emotions its a object ... I love my bikes ... GS, eli, virago, KZ ... all of it, but pay me for it and take it, and If you were going to crush it ... I'd like ring side seats and a video camera ... its just a clump of metal, rubber, plastic and chemicals ... Heck pay me for the KZ (BTW it has a bunch of purple comming to think of it) and I will personally do a webcast of it being tossed out a 3rd story window, or being crushed in the metal press at the scrap yard, or it getting burnt and melted in the furnace ... whatever floats your boat ...
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: seshadri_srinathYou are one strange puppy aren't ya ... its just a freaking bike ...

Spoken like a true guy!  :thumb:  :P

Quote from: pandy

Quote from: seshadri_srinathYou are one strange puppy aren't ya ... its just a freaking bike ...

Spoken like a true guy!  :thumb:  :P

What ... guys aren't detached when it comes to their stuff ... they get super attached ... just see the hordes of Harley riders ... women while they do get attached to things ... mechanical widgets usually are pretty low in their list ... a woman will cry over a set of shoes more than she'll cry over a car (as long as the $$ aspect is covered) ... I could care less about either ... it its not a living thing ... pay me for it and I dont care ...
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: seshadri_srinathWhat ... guys aren't detached when it comes to their stuff ... they get super attached ... just see the hordes of Harley riders ... women while they do get attached to things ... mechanical widgets usually are pretty low in their list ... a woman will cry over a set of shoes more than she'll cry over a car (as long as the $$ aspect is covered) ... I could care less about either ... it its not a living thing ... pay me for it and I dont care

Blech. Shoes? All one needs is a pair of black shoes and a pair of white shoes. When they wear out, throw them out. Costs more than $20? Not worth it.

Now....a PURPLE bike....priceless!  :thumb:

:P

My favorite color is blue ... and if I got enough $$ to have anyhting I like painted the blue I like, no problem I'll personally scrape it off and take a video of it ... Now for purple :lol:  ... I'd do it for free ...  :lol:
Cool.
Srinath.