Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: ratz on September 08, 2005, 11:34:40 AM
Post by: ratz on September 08, 2005, 11:34:40 AM
I am waiting on several parts, so last night I turned on the TV in my garage, Did an oil and filter (and filter gasket) change. Then I got out the drill, and safety wire.
I plan on getting back on the track for some track days , so I might as well make the bike ready. It can also be a safegaurd for the street. I also think it looks cool.
(http://usera.imagecave.com/ratz/brakeswireda-copy.jpg)
(http://usera.imagecave.com/ratz/oildraina-copy.jpg)
(http://usera.imagecave.com/ratz/oilfillera-copy.jpg)
I plan on getting back on the track for some track days , so I might as well make the bike ready. It can also be a safegaurd for the street. I also think it looks cool.
(http://usera.imagecave.com/ratz/brakeswireda-copy.jpg)
(http://usera.imagecave.com/ratz/oildraina-copy.jpg)
(http://usera.imagecave.com/ratz/oilfillera-copy.jpg)
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: scratch on September 08, 2005, 11:55:31 AM
Post by: scratch on September 08, 2005, 11:55:31 AM
Good job!
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: davipu on September 08, 2005, 12:06:51 PM
Post by: davipu on September 08, 2005, 12:06:51 PM
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/davipu/oildraina-copy.jpg)
not to sound scarstic or anything but in this one your pulling on the wrong side of the little bolt. and you don't want to go over the top of the bolt it adds stress to the wire by adding two 90 deg. bends in critical pulling areas which due to the vibrations will cause it to fail there. the best way I to run the wire is the green line. also that looks like 0.020 wire in my opinion that's too thin, you want atleast 0.032. the rule of thumb that we always followed when the manual didn't specify was if the torque value was measured in inch lbs use 20 if measured in foot lbs and under 35 use 32 over that use the 41. if you don't have anything heavier I have a roll I'm pretty sure it's 41 although I havn't looked in about a month feel free to come over and use what you need. and 8-12 tpi, that looks more like 6 but is probably just the thin wire.
not to sound scarstic or anything but in this one your pulling on the wrong side of the little bolt. and you don't want to go over the top of the bolt it adds stress to the wire by adding two 90 deg. bends in critical pulling areas which due to the vibrations will cause it to fail there. the best way I to run the wire is the green line. also that looks like 0.020 wire in my opinion that's too thin, you want atleast 0.032. the rule of thumb that we always followed when the manual didn't specify was if the torque value was measured in inch lbs use 20 if measured in foot lbs and under 35 use 32 over that use the 41. if you don't have anything heavier I have a roll I'm pretty sure it's 41 although I havn't looked in about a month feel free to come over and use what you need. and 8-12 tpi, that looks more like 6 but is probably just the thin wire.
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: dgyver on September 08, 2005, 12:11:40 PM
Post by: dgyver on September 08, 2005, 12:11:40 PM
I wish more people would take extra precautions like safety wiring on their street bikes. Obvious reasons on the track but the same go for the street. I have been behind a street rider whos oil filter (external type) came loose. Not much fun getting sprayed with oil.
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: ratz on September 08, 2005, 12:22:14 PM
Post by: ratz on September 08, 2005, 12:22:14 PM
Quote from: davipu
not to sound scarstic or anything but in this one your pulling on the wrong side of the little bolt. and you don't want to go over the top of the bolt it adds stress to the wire by adding two 90 deg. bends in critical pulling areas which due to the vibrations will cause it to fail there. the best way I to run the wire is the green line. also that looks like 0.020 wire in my opinion that's too thin, you want atleast 0.032. the rule of thumb that we always followed when the manual didn't specify was if the torque value was measured in inch lbs use 20 if measured in foot lbs and under 35 use 32 over that use the 41. if you don't have anything heavier I have a roll I'm pretty sure it's 41 although I havn't looked in about a month feel free to come over and use what you need. and 8-12 tpi, that looks more like 6 but is probably just the thin wire.
Where do I begin? hmmm .
First : This is the second time, take that back, third time, in a thread that you have made an attempt to correct me, and I have only been on this board a few months ... I find it amusing, but mostly annoying.
Second: Do you have your bike safety wired?
Third: "rule of thumb" "manual", what manual are you talking about?
Do you do this sort of stuff in the military? This is not military grade, and certainly does not even come close to the stress of military vehicles.
My last race bike had the harmonic balancer removed, and vibrated quite a lot, and never had an issue with something rattling loose, or safety wire stressing to failure. I did have an engine mount tab crack, hmmm just like your bike.
I remove these parts regularly, and need to remove the safety wire when I do. I don't give it a chance to have long term fatigue.
I am trying to keep the drain plug from backing out, not the small bolt.
It adds stress!? How much stress can this little bikes drainplug that is immobile, and tightened, put on another bolt. The small bolts wire is going all the way through the bolt, not one corner. It's not like I am flying and f-14 here. If you look at the first picture of the brake bolts, you will see I know how to keep two bolts from backing out.
As for the thickness I believe it is .028, or .030, I will check later. ( I am sure I probably have too many twists per inch according to your manual too) :roll:
For my purposes, it is more than sufficiant, for a tech inspection at the track, it is sufficiant, for the street it is sufficiant.
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: davipu on September 08, 2005, 12:28:41 PM
Post by: davipu on September 08, 2005, 12:28:41 PM
whare's your responce?
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: ratz on September 08, 2005, 01:18:44 PM
Post by: ratz on September 08, 2005, 01:18:44 PM
see above ^
This touchpad laptop, clicked submit, when I simple move my had over it, it is real sensitive.
This touchpad laptop, clicked submit, when I simple move my had over it, it is real sensitive.
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: davipu on September 08, 2005, 02:01:08 PM
Post by: davipu on September 08, 2005, 02:01:08 PM
nope my bike is not safety wired.
yes I did this in the military, want to see my training jacket?
it's in the NAVAIR 01-1A-8 the Structural Hardware Technical Manual. some good info is also available at http://www.infodotinc.com/air/2-30.htm
a paper copy of the -8 manual is available upon request from nav air sys com using the contact link at the top right on thier home page. http://www.navair.navy.mil/
dosn't it defeat the purpose of instaling the wire if it will loosen one of the bolts?
by improperly instaling the wire you have increased the chance of it failing regardless of how often you remove it.
so your annoyed ehh? sorry dude.
yes I did this in the military, want to see my training jacket?
it's in the NAVAIR 01-1A-8 the Structural Hardware Technical Manual. some good info is also available at http://www.infodotinc.com/air/2-30.htm
a paper copy of the -8 manual is available upon request from nav air sys com using the contact link at the top right on thier home page. http://www.navair.navy.mil/
dosn't it defeat the purpose of instaling the wire if it will loosen one of the bolts?
by improperly instaling the wire you have increased the chance of it failing regardless of how often you remove it.
so your annoyed ehh? sorry dude.
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: vfrocket on September 08, 2005, 02:07:21 PM
Post by: vfrocket on September 08, 2005, 02:07:21 PM
Sorry dude, I am going to have to agree with Davipu on this one. I used to be a CDI/QAR back in my Navy days, and I would not safe for flight that. 8)
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: Kee on September 08, 2005, 03:18:14 PM
Post by: Kee on September 08, 2005, 03:18:14 PM
Is that all that is invovled in safety wiring a bike, what you showed pictures of?
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: ratz on September 08, 2005, 03:30:58 PM
Post by: ratz on September 08, 2005, 03:30:58 PM
Depending on which track you go to , and their standards, That is pretty much it.
From the WSMC rulebook:
7. All plugs and fittings with oil or water behind them (this can include oil galley plugs) must be securely fastened and safety wired. Yellow 3M weather-strip cement or RTV silicone sealant may be used in cases where it is impractical to drill fasteners.
8. All fuel, oil, and coolant line connections must have positive clamping (not safety wires or slip fits). Clamps on pressure oil, fuel, and water lines must be safety wired so as to prevent loosening.
Also axles, and brake calipers must be safety wired.
From the WSMC rulebook:
7. All plugs and fittings with oil or water behind them (this can include oil galley plugs) must be securely fastened and safety wired. Yellow 3M weather-strip cement or RTV silicone sealant may be used in cases where it is impractical to drill fasteners.
8. All fuel, oil, and coolant line connections must have positive clamping (not safety wires or slip fits). Clamps on pressure oil, fuel, and water lines must be safety wired so as to prevent loosening.
Also axles, and brake calipers must be safety wired.
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: Kee on September 08, 2005, 03:38:14 PM
Post by: Kee on September 08, 2005, 03:38:14 PM
What do you charge? :)
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: ratz on September 08, 2005, 04:09:22 PM
Post by: ratz on September 08, 2005, 04:09:22 PM
Kee,
Well, apperantley I am doing it all wrong ( even though I did it for 7 different racebikes from 1993-2000).
You would just have to promise not to fly it because it does not meet (nav air sys com NAVAIR 01-1A-8 the Structural Hardware) standards.
All kidding aside, it is pretty easy, the key is having a good drill bit that will cut threw the bolt head, and wont snap.
Bring it over, no charge. :thumb:
Well, apperantley I am doing it all wrong ( even though I did it for 7 different racebikes from 1993-2000).
You would just have to promise not to fly it because it does not meet (nav air sys com NAVAIR 01-1A-8 the Structural Hardware) standards.
All kidding aside, it is pretty easy, the key is having a good drill bit that will cut threw the bolt head, and wont snap.
Bring it over, no charge. :thumb:
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: Kee on September 08, 2005, 04:16:16 PM
Post by: Kee on September 08, 2005, 04:16:16 PM
I actually have that NAVAIR book in my office and I never want to look at it again. Pain in the a$$.
I will definitely take you up on your offer, but will wait till after next oil/filter change, so don't forget me :) .
What else is necessary to get the bike on the track besides covering over the lights, taking off the mirrors?
I will definitely take you up on your offer, but will wait till after next oil/filter change, so don't forget me :) .
What else is necessary to get the bike on the track besides covering over the lights, taking off the mirrors?
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: Chuck on September 08, 2005, 04:21:12 PM
Post by: Chuck on September 08, 2005, 04:21:12 PM
A good article on the subject, with nice pictures: http://sportrider.com/tech/146_0002_hand/
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: werase643 on September 08, 2005, 04:48:43 PM
Post by: werase643 on September 08, 2005, 04:48:43 PM
i always just drill a hole on the oil pan coolong fin....and then the whiney assed ex marine can't say much :mrgreen:
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: RVertigo on September 08, 2005, 05:45:55 PM
Post by: RVertigo on September 08, 2005, 05:45:55 PM
Quote from: werase643ex marineNo such thing... Once a Marine always a Marine. You just stop getting paid to kill people.
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: ratz on September 08, 2005, 05:54:34 PM
Post by: ratz on September 08, 2005, 05:54:34 PM
I couldn't get to a oil cooling fin with the pipe in the way, but your are right, that makes it simpler.
If you are interested in going to the track, here is the link to the WSMC rulebook, "general preperation"
http://www.commline.com/WSMC/www.race-wsmc.com/rulebook.htm#GENERAL
The first time I put a GS on the track I noticed the suspension ( progressive springs) was the best preperation I could have done.
My next oops was scraping my pegs, and pipe below the pegs. Also clip-on bars, helped keep me tucked.
When I added rearsets, I was able to reverse my shifting, and that helped keep my toes from being under the shifter.
Some track days check out //www.hypercycle.com only require lenses to be taped, and no loose parts or bodywork. But Oil drain and fillers are always a good idea.
If you are interested in going to the track, here is the link to the WSMC rulebook, "general preperation"
http://www.commline.com/WSMC/www.race-wsmc.com/rulebook.htm#GENERAL
The first time I put a GS on the track I noticed the suspension ( progressive springs) was the best preperation I could have done.
My next oops was scraping my pegs, and pipe below the pegs. Also clip-on bars, helped keep me tucked.
When I added rearsets, I was able to reverse my shifting, and that helped keep my toes from being under the shifter.
Some track days check out //www.hypercycle.com only require lenses to be taped, and no loose parts or bodywork. But Oil drain and fillers are always a good idea.
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: Kee on September 08, 2005, 06:41:58 PM
Post by: Kee on September 08, 2005, 06:41:58 PM
Thanks for all the info. Now I just need to figure out a way to get my bike physically to the track.
If you are ever looking for someone to split the transportation cost let me know.
If you are ever looking for someone to split the transportation cost let me know.
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: stingray on September 08, 2005, 08:04:55 PM
Post by: stingray on September 08, 2005, 08:04:55 PM
not too shabby, i'd redo the drain bolt myself just cause it looks kinda janky but that's just the poseur in me :mrgreen:
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: ratz on September 08, 2005, 08:19:14 PM
Post by: ratz on September 08, 2005, 08:19:14 PM
I can appreciate your logic, Maybe I will redo the drain. It is just hard to get to because of the confinement of it (exhaust pipe, and being upsidedown under a bike)
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: werase643 on September 09, 2005, 11:22:15 AM
Post by: werase643 on September 09, 2005, 11:22:15 AM
you will have plenty of room when you remove the exhaust...to safety wire the exhaust bolts.
:cheers:
:cheers:
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: ckirtner80 on October 18, 2005, 09:25:21 PM
Post by: ckirtner80 on October 18, 2005, 09:25:21 PM
anybody here still have "safety wire pliers" you know what I'm talking about.
I haven't heard anyone talk about safety wire since I got out of the AF.
I haven't heard anyone talk about safety wire since I got out of the AF.
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: davipu on October 18, 2005, 09:38:56 PM
Post by: davipu on October 18, 2005, 09:38:56 PM
I have a couple pairs. harbor frieght carries them for 15 bucks a pair.
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: werase643 on October 19, 2005, 06:54:55 AM
Post by: werase643 on October 19, 2005, 06:54:55 AM
The $15.00 HF ones suck compared to $75.00 MIL SPEC ones
but
are better than hand twisting
some times they go on sale for $8.00
also in 6 inch and 9 inch
but
are better than hand twisting
some times they go on sale for $8.00
also in 6 inch and 9 inch
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: dgyver on October 19, 2005, 03:15:45 PM
Post by: dgyver on October 19, 2005, 03:15:45 PM
I use the cheaper ones, guess I do not know what I am missing since I have never used any MIL Spec ones. Mine still make nice pretty twists. I used to be able to get them for $8 from a jewelery supply catalog.
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: JamesG on October 19, 2005, 04:44:28 PM
Post by: JamesG on October 19, 2005, 04:44:28 PM
Since we are critqueing...
Run the safety wire to that bolt on the top of the engine case behind the oil filler plug to a safety clip that will fit on the hole in the filler plug with just enough slack to get it on. That way you don't have to re do the wiring each time you change/check the oil. If WERA Tech is ok with it, I imagine just about anyone else will be.
Run the safety wire to that bolt on the top of the engine case behind the oil filler plug to a safety clip that will fit on the hole in the filler plug with just enough slack to get it on. That way you don't have to re do the wiring each time you change/check the oil. If WERA Tech is ok with it, I imagine just about anyone else will be.
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: calamari on October 19, 2005, 05:14:13 PM
Post by: calamari on October 19, 2005, 05:14:13 PM
I am confused about this safety wiring stuff...
how about just do something else (what I currently do), like re-torque every nut we can see and access with our tools, every few weeks?
is that what we are talking about here?
how about just do something else (what I currently do), like re-torque every nut we can see and access with our tools, every few weeks?
is that what we are talking about here?
Title: Safety wire because I was bored
Post by: werase643 on October 19, 2005, 05:26:32 PM
Post by: werase643 on October 19, 2005, 05:26:32 PM
safety wiring for race bikes....
is to prevent bolts from coming out
even if properly torqued....really weird stuff happens to a race bike
with it safety wired it will only loosen...at most 1/4 turn
before I started racing...
I was riding my street bike one day and both caliper bolts came loose on one fork. One bolt fell out and the other one was about 1 turn from falling out
since then every brake caliper has been wired....including my 50cc bikes
when i bought my RS-50, this spring, the front axle was loose....wired now
is to prevent bolts from coming out
even if properly torqued....really weird stuff happens to a race bike
with it safety wired it will only loosen...at most 1/4 turn
before I started racing...
I was riding my street bike one day and both caliper bolts came loose on one fork. One bolt fell out and the other one was about 1 turn from falling out
since then every brake caliper has been wired....including my 50cc bikes
when i bought my RS-50, this spring, the front axle was loose....wired now