OK so anyone tell me what is the disadvantage of buying "last years helmet" ... They are all made of the same material ... I mean ... dont compare HJC some or other plastic helmet to a $700 suomy ... Last year suomy to this year ... or even models that have been upgraded - RF 900 to RF 1000. The shell material etc read remarkably identical, and the damn insides are styrofoam, cloth, vinyl and foam whihc AFAIK hasn't changed since the 60's ... OK OK there is that removable rewashable crap that seems to happen every year ... easier to remove and wash ... or whatever ... other than that in terms of safety etc ... fit and other crap is subjective, suddenly helmet users didn't acquire different shaped heads ... so fit is not a factor ... anyway ... just from a safety point of view what difference does it make ... and yea you're all riding last years bike BTW ... so :thumb:
Cool.
Srinath.
I do not know of any disadvantages. My favorite helmet was a clearance from the year before, an $800 helmet for $350.
Most racing bodies and track day organizers allow helmets from 1 batch of Snell ratings ago. I figure that's as good a rule of thumb as any. So an '04 helmet is dandy (especially since the M2005s still aren't out - hello?).
that reminds me...WERA only allows helmets less than 5 years old.
OK allows is different ... in reality they want to sell helmets (races on the schedule being sponsored by Shoei etc) limit their liability (older helmets may have seen more use and more light bumps and drops etc) and other political agendas. In reality I find that recomending a new helmet saying your old one is bad is like saying your old 04 GS is crap, its last years, buy this new 05 one. I would also like to see how the testing by snell the 2000 vs 2005 is different. They drop it from higher up, or have a lower G value for the egg inside ... what ... really I'd like to know how the incredible RF-900 I heard about last year or 2003 is now shitty, and the RF 1000 is the best thing since sliced bread.
Cool.
Srinath.
I used to race Go-Karts and I kept on top of helmet requirements. I wouldn't have a problem using a year old un-used helmet if it met the requirements of the sanctioning body that was over the track I was racing at. That thinking carries over to the street for me. If it is un-used and on sale and has current ratings than I would think that your only problem would be what to spend the saved money on.
My father rides with an RF-900, and he's got no problem with it. I was riding with a Shoei RFR for a while (until I got the new RF-1000). The RF-1000 is just a fancier RF-900 with more doo-dads. I'd put just as much faith into an RF-900 as an RF-1000.
Quote from: BLITZMW77I used to race Go-Karts and I kept on top of helmet requirements. I wouldn't have a problem using a year old un-used helmet if it met the requirements of the sanctioning body that was over the track I was racing at. That thinking carries over to the street for me. If it is un-used and on sale and has current ratings than I would think that your only problem would be what to spend the saved money on.
OK I can see how use affects the helmet, I used one till it was in tatters ... but a new RF900 or RF 800 I believe to be same as a new RF 1000. the shells are same material, and the lining is same ... so what's the diff ... and BTW shat is diff between snell 95, 2000 and 2005 ... and yea they may ahve added some clauses ... pretty much to make more confusing verbage ... I'd like to see how the 2005 helmet passed that extra stringent and very needed extra test while the 2000 one failed ... cos I dont see how a fiberglass, kevlar and aramid helmet failed a 2005 test, while another fiberglass, kevlar and aramid helmet passes it ... :?
Cool.
Srinath.
Like I said, the RF-900 is just a less bling RF-1000. The RF-1000 has some other modifications from the previous year model, but there is no reason to be concerned if you buy an RF-900 though.
Quote from: AlphaFire X5Like I said, the RF-900 is just a less bling RF-1000. The RF-1000 has some other modifications from the previous year model, but there is no reason to be concerned if you buy an RF-900 though.
Yea ... I have a brand new RF-800 I ahvce been bashed on the head for wearing ... of course its been by helmet shills and I told them ... "like you wont shill any new doo hickey that's been put in front of you ... "
Cool.
Srinath.
is it true that if you fall at, let's say... 90mph, the helmet will do you no good?
I heard that from a co-worker who has been riding harleys for like 20 years, so i'm unsure what to believe.
He's a Harley rider... does he even WEAR a helmet? :lol:
well, he said something like: 'if you are going 90mph and you fall, even that helmet will do you no damn good and you are gone...'
my helmet is an HJC AC-11 Maximus
Quote from: subcis it true that if you fall at, let's say... 90mph, the helmet will do you no good?
I heard that from a co-worker who has been riding harleys for like 20 years, so i'm unsure what to believe.
As per the anecdotal evidence provided by Arai the rider got off his bike at ~ 120 mph and hit a sign post with his brand new arai helmeted head and lived to write about it ... so I guess we should all buy arai's and hit sign posts with them ... Yea only way that argument is of any meaning is if they repeated the same accident with the same guy, wearing a HJC, an AGV, a shoei, a scorpion, a Bieffe, and whatever ... OK fine its a argument for wearing a helmet ... BTW 90 mph ... the higher the speed the more effective a helmet is ... heck over 40 I cannot even keep my eyes open ... how are they riding wihtout one ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Let me tell you a story about helmets. I was wearing a DOT approved on/off road full face hemet, Brand THH and only paid around $89.00 back in 2000. Long story short.... running through a straight section woods at about 45 mph and a slight jump at the end then you drop over a hill into a grove of pines. I just went through there the day before and it was all clear, but the next day it was NOT clear and a tree had fallen and was suspended about 4 and a half foot over the trail right where you supposed to land. Needless to say it took me right off the quad by the helmet, and it took my buddy behind me right off his too the same way.
my cheap helmet saved my head and just scuffed it all up and ripped off the visor. My friend was knocked out for about a minute and his helmets shell was cracked from the front almost to the back and he had a slight concussion. His helmet was DOT and snell 95 approved.
I want my head to be safe but I'm not going to buy a new helmet every year.
Who here currently owns a car or truck that is 15-20 years old or older?
Have you replaced the seatbelts in it? I would rather trust my life in a cheaper helmet than old seatbelts. Been there, done that, it sucks.
And as far as last years helmets go. Buy it, I would.
They newer snell ratings seem to create helmets that are softer ... not the insides, the shells ... ergo I tend to buy harder helmets and I am evidently stuck with older and un obtainable Bieffe BR16 types ...
I drop a helmet several times before even comming close to crashing in it, if I was not guarding the freaking shoei with my life ... I'd be out of helmets already ... and they are supposed to be done in 1 drop ... Needless to say I am buying a cheap sheite helmet if I replace it every week, or I am looking for the un obtainable bieffe BR16.
Your helmet obviously was harder and it effectively dissipated the energy, his was softer and ended up splitting ... I dont buy the weaker is better analogy ... if that was so, plain styrofoam like bicycle helmets are the best :?
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: subcwell, he said something like: 'if you are going 90mph and you fall, even that helmet will do you no damn good and you are gone...'
Do not tell that to any racers. Going down at 100+ and still kickin' is fairly common.
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/hatz/
OK Far from me believing any moto rag ... BUt here it is. BTW didn't Laura or some one else allude to this a few months ago ... I guess I'll have to pony up the $75 - 80 for the Z1-R ... 8) ... I thought I could get away with a $400 arai ... well I guess you cant argue with scientific knowledge ...
Cool.
Srinath.
testing has proved that after 3 years the original level of petro-based solvents that are in the styrafoam deplete to a level whare the helmet no longer will meet the impact rating. as a result the impact from crashing will not be difussed down to safe levels due to the harder foam. as far as snell ratings and softer impact zones, helmets are now being designed to whare the fibers in the composite material are being used to thier maxium strengh limits. through various weave designs and injection molding processes, so you get thin light lids, but you still have a plastic baised lid that in time will become brittle and shatter instead of bend and will do it faster than a thicker shell one. does that help answer your question?
OK so old expensive sheite is out, new cheap sheite is great ... OK I can dig that ... BTW doesn't styrofoam not ever like decompose ... wan't that the whole argument against styrofoam cups ??
Cool.
Srinath.
styrofoam is made up of little plastic beads all glued together under pressure. the plastic dosn't decompose as it is plastic, but the "glue" used to bond them is a solvent based. when something impacts the helmet the bond of the glue is what difusses the enegery, otherwise you end up with one of those desk suspended steel ball things that keeps going back and forth, only all the enegery gets put into your noodle.
who's gonna make (and when) kevlar helmets?
alot of lids have kevlar in them already. kevlar was designed to difusse low mass high velocity impacts, ie:bullets. so is not the best thing to completly build a helmet out of.
edit: forgot to ad that kevlar in it's design is soupposed to give depending on the application. look at BPV most of the time if you get shot you are going to have broken ribs but it dosn't puncture a organ. so you live. helmets on the other hand need to diffuse enegery at the point of impact with out alot of give. so a completely kevalar kid whouldn't work as effectivly as a fiberglass one.
Quote from: subcwho's gonna make (and when) kevlar helmets?
Yea Bieffe is going to be making them. I believe they are starting in 1995, and I have heard that in 2000 or 2001 they are going to stop making them due to misinformation and marketing blitzes by other companies that make a new model of helmet every year ... and have a vaaaaaast network of shills and stealers that will carry it that they can spread some classic misinformation and control the market. Yea I plan to buy 2 of them, a BR15 model in 1996 and a BR 16 model in 2000 and ten when I cant get them anymore in 2005 I am going to start comparison shopping and find blind end after blind end ... and come across a study that said polycarbonate is better than fiberglass. It will all happen in the future ... :lol: ... The swami predicts.
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: subcwell, he said something like: 'if you are going 90mph and you fall, even that helmet will do you no damn good and you are gone...'
my helmet is an HJC AC-11 Maximus
We are helmet brethren. Tell me, what color is yours?
And that harley dude, I wouldn't listen to a word he says cept for advice on how to spend $20,000 on a bike and 40 bucks on a helmet. Bless'em.
after spending $20000 on a bike isn't tat all they can afford on a helmet?
I read that entire article ... yikes its been like 5 years since I did that ... usually the first 3-4 lines and I am good ... anyway ...
The whole theme is ... the Polycarbonate helmets even in that destructive tests seemed to deform and come back to original shape. The fiberglass ones seemed to crack or flatten out and stay that way. The first type of failure is called elastic failure, the second type is called plastic failure.
I have looooong thought that elastic failure is better than plastic ... but shoei and Arai used to constantly insist that plastic is better. The main difference from my way of thinking to this article is that I would look for helmets with elastic material but try to get the ones with the highest modulus of elasticity -e ... as in the hardest ones possible. The BR16 made of Kevlar and aramid, and the BR 15 before that whihc was Aramid and poly carbonate were my favorites. In reading this article I should probably start thinking in terms of elastic but lower e helmets. Arai and Shoei will literally sweep the market looking for and publicising the situations where thier helmets let someone not get hurt as bad, or let him live or somehting like that. That simply put is anecdotal evidence. To have a true comparison you will have to replicate the exact same incident with a different helmet on the same person and make him crash the same way ... so I doubt there are many volunteers. Besides if you crash in a $500 helmet, and the company offers you a $500 replacement helmet for your old helmet and your story, its impossible to refuse. especially since your helmet is now toast. I lose a $90 helmet and I dont care if someone gives me one free or not ... If its $500 i'd like to get my hands on another one free if possible. Very much like infomercial testimony. Simply put ... elastic failure is better, lower e is better and heck dropping a helmet a few times prior to your crashing in it should not affect the helmet in any way ... whooo hooo ... now I run off and buy a $80 Z1R ... Or I think the stealer has a Fulmer - a whole wall rack on sale ...
Cool.
Srinath.