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Main Area => General GS500 Discussion => Topic started by: Alphamazing on October 10, 2005, 03:24:51 PM

Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: Alphamazing on October 10, 2005, 03:24:51 PM
I've searched and searched, but I can't seem to find out why everyone loves the progressive rate springs. The general consensus on the FZ1 board is that straight rate springs are preferred, which makes a lot of sense. Straight rate springs allow for much sportier riding without any question as to what's going to happen with the tension in the springs.

Thoughts? Opinions?
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: scratch on October 10, 2005, 03:56:15 PM
You are correct. Most racers (and sporty-bike riders) use all of their suspension travel. With a straight rate spring you can actually estimate how much brake to use to dive the front end to the desired height and decrease the rake (and trail, or castor) to make turn-in (steering input) that much easier. It is also much easier to control when accelerating out of a turn.

Progressives are useful for anti-dive. As the softer, closer-together coils bind up together they become a solid spacer for the stiffer, more spaced out coils.
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: Alphamazing on October 10, 2005, 04:00:50 PM
Holy crap. An informative response... Sweet.

Why are the progressive rates preferred on this board, then? It's all I hear about.
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: werase643 on October 10, 2005, 04:02:09 PM
also since the GS has itsy bitsy teensy weensy fork tubes
it is not considered a great race bike....
therefore the AM company makes springs for street riders.
yes you probably can get straight rate...but why...get a diff front end
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: Alphamazing on October 10, 2005, 04:04:14 PM
Quote from: werase643also since the GS has itsy bitsy teensy weensy fork tubes
it is not considered a great race bike....
therefore the AM company makes springs for street riders.
yes you probably can get straight rate...but why...get a diff front end

Front ends are expensive, springs are cheap, that's why! :)
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: scratch on October 10, 2005, 04:18:59 PM
Quote from: AlphaFire X5Holy crap. An informative response... Sweet.

Why are the progressive rates preferred on this board, then? It's all I hear about.

Besides being very inexpensive, progresive rate springs are ideal for new riders such that they are soft enough to give a compliant and comfortable riding experience, but stiffen-up fast enough to control otherwise drastic chassis attitude changes and give a feeling of control and confidence.

On a side note: Progressives work very well in hiding warped front brake disks, by absorbing the undulations under braking.
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: Alphamazing on October 10, 2005, 04:31:59 PM
I think I'll just drop some shims in to stiffen up my springs then. Thank you!
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: juno on October 10, 2005, 04:49:25 PM
http://www.racetech.com/evalving/menu/searchstreet.asp
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: RVertigo on October 10, 2005, 05:04:43 PM
http://www.gstwin.com/making_fork_spacers.htm

:thumb:


I'm gonna do it someday...  I swear.   :oops:

I'd also like to get a thicker (less bendy) version of the plate (whatever the hell it's called) between the fork tubes.
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: Alphamazing on October 10, 2005, 05:14:03 PM
The Racetechs are $110! :O That's a bit too much for me. Spacers will be the mod of choice for me, I guess.
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: RVertigo on October 10, 2005, 05:15:30 PM
I saw that too... The weight calculator RULES!  Type in your weight and it tells you the stock springs vs what you should get...

Too bad they're a bill plus shipping.   :(




:lol: According to the calculator, you'd have to weigh 44 Lbs for the stock springs to be right...  No wonder RG never complains about them    :lol:
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: Alphamazing on October 10, 2005, 05:20:29 PM
Is there a way to calculate the spacer size necessary to create a given spring weight?
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: RVertigo on October 10, 2005, 05:24:17 PM
Do I look like I work for RaceTech?   :nana:
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: aaronstj on October 10, 2005, 05:24:57 PM
Just playing around with their weight calculator, I decided to find the rider weight that would make the recommended springs match the stock springs.

If you want to ride on the stock springs, Racetech recommends that you weight 44.5 lbs.

Good to know.
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: RVertigo on October 10, 2005, 05:26:30 PM
You must be as bored as I am...  (See two posts above).   :P
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: Alphamazing on October 10, 2005, 05:35:30 PM
Hmm. There must me a length/mass formula I could use to plug in spacer length. Anyone? Geniuses?
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: John Bates on October 10, 2005, 05:42:40 PM
Quote from: AlphaFire X5..........Spacers will be the mod of choice for me, I guess.

I don't know much about springs but my gut tells me that a spacer will just reduce the available spring travel and the rate for the remaining travel isn't changed.  What do you gain?

:cheers:
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: Gisser on October 10, 2005, 06:00:20 PM
Quote from: AlphaFire X5Hmm. There must me a length/mass formula I could use to plug in spacer length. Anyone? Geniuses?

Yeah, your premise is wrong.  You can't stiffen the forks with a spacer.  It will raise the front, and it   may increase travel if the stock springs have any collapsible space left between the coils.   :roll:
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: RVertigo on October 10, 2005, 06:05:29 PM
The spacer is pretty small...  Just adds some pre-load...  Check the link.
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: Alphamazing on October 10, 2005, 06:06:38 PM
Quote from: Gisser
Quote from: AlphaFire X5Hmm. There must me a length/mass formula I could use to plug in spacer length. Anyone? Geniuses?

Yeah, your premise is wrong.  You can't stiffen the forks with a spacer.  It will raise the front, and it   may increase travel if the stock springs have any collapsible space left between the coils.   :roll:

Hm. Makes sense. I don't see why I didn't see that... I guess it'd be to remove some of the slack in the springs before they start to compress?
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: Gisser on October 10, 2005, 06:43:20 PM
Quote from: AlphaFire X5
... I guess it'd be to remove some of the slack in the springs before they start to compress?


Yeah, but if you think about it, that preload only comes into play when the forks are topped out--like when you wheelie. :nono:    I think they recommend 11/16" worth of preload to ensure that the full range of the stroke is useful.  Normallly, the weight of the bike overcomes the preload before you even sit on it.   Get the Progressives!  ;)
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: Alphamazing on October 10, 2005, 06:51:11 PM
I think if I got springs I wouldn't go with progressive. I do more sport oriented riding than commuting and would probably fare better with straight ratio springs.
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: juno on October 11, 2005, 10:12:12 AM
And emulators....

Luckily I live near ft lauderdale and there is a racetech shop there.
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: scratch on October 11, 2005, 12:06:08 PM
Progressives are not bad, even for spirited riding, ask Pablo.

But, depending on how much you weigh, that would determine wheather or not you need new springs. And, if not new springs, how much preload you will need with the stock springs. For instance, I am 125lbs, and have recently switched back to the stock springs from the Progressives, and have added three 1/8th" thick washers (3/8ths" total; one washer is a nylon washer that is supposed to help smooth out the twisting of the spring as it compresses, from ACE Hardware; the others are from Orchard Supply) in each leg to obtain 1 and 3/4ths inches of sag (for riding in rain). It appears that 1/8th" of preload affects 1/16th of an inch of sag.

More here: http://gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=202282#202282
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: Alphamazing on October 11, 2005, 12:22:22 PM
Okay scratch, that's perfect, as I weigh 130ish. The washers you have, are they 1/8" thick? One is made of nylon, what are the other two made of?
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: scratch on October 11, 2005, 12:44:53 PM
Not sure. They're shiney yellowish, so I'm guessing brass. I know I didn't want stainless, because I didn't want them to rust inside my tubes. I'll try to find out tonight and I'll get ya the diameter, too. Also, the dimentions of the nylon washers.

Yep, 1/8" thick (edited previos post).
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: scratch on October 12, 2005, 04:26:50 PM
Hardened washers from Orchard Supply (unknown metal); part no. 9326380, 9/16" (inside diameter of the hole); about 1 1/4" outside dia. Qty 6/bag. The plastic washers have a 3/8" hole and are about the same outside diameter.
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: sprint_9 on October 12, 2005, 05:57:39 PM
Spacers and 15 wt oil is probably the best perforamce to money ratio you can get on the GS forks, I did it to mine and it was suprisingly very good.
Title: Straight rate springs vs. Progressive rate
Post by: scratch on October 13, 2005, 12:15:28 PM
I went to 5w Spectro (should'ave bought BelRay, cheaper witha more consistent viscosity; also, because I'ma lighweight); smoothed out the bumps, but if the bumps don't bother you and you want to minimize the dive, go with the 15w. Or, stay with the 10w.