It was pretty much my fault. Riding to school today, I came up on two cars in my (left) lane cruising along, one in front of the other. The car ahead decides to take an abrupt left, so the car behind (who was maybe following too close) brakes. I see this and begin my deceleration/braking prodcedure, some front and rear brake while downshifting for engine braking, soon hard front and rear brake. Either I locked the rear or my reaction time lagged cause I was coming up pretty quick on the rear of the car.
Well, the bike dumped on me at the last second and slid part way under the rear of the car at about 8-10km/hr. shaZam!. His car is ok luckily, my bike on the other hand is scarred. Bent handle bar, mirror, brake lever and scratches on engine cover. The driver was cool and helped me right the bike and pull it off to the side of the road. I got to school fine.
My question is - could I have swerved to the right? I didn't check the mirror so I must have been focused on the braking car. On the other hand, a vehicle might have been in my blind spot and that could have been worse.
As well. What do I do now? What should I check on the bike? Will the front fork be bent? The brake rotor? :dunno: The bend in the handle bar was obvious riding the rest of the way to school, so a new handle bar will be ordered and the brake system checked thouroughly.
In the future, I'll follow with more space, and practice my braking...
Any feedback would be appreciated
Thanks,
Fin
Toronto, Canada
Quote from: finmacIt was pretty much my fault. Riding to school today, I came up on two cars in my (left) lane cruising along, one in front of the other. The car ahead decides to take an abrupt left, so the car behind (who was maybe following too close) brakes. I see this and begin my deceleration/braking prodcedure, some front and rear brake while downshifting for engine braking, soon hard front and rear brake. Either I locked the rear or my reaction time lagged cause I was coming up pretty quick on the rear of the car.
Well, the bike dumped on me at the last second and slid part way under the rear of the car at about 8-10km/hr. shaZam!. His car is ok luckily, my bike on the other hand is scarred. Bent handle bar, mirror, brake lever and scratches on engine cover. The driver was cool and helped me right the bike and pull it off to the side of the road. I got to school fine.
My question is - could I have swerved to the right? I didn't check the mirror so I must have been focused on the braking car. On the other hand, a vehicle might have been in my blind spot and that could have been worse.
As well. What do I do now? What should I check on the bike? Will the front fork be bent? The brake rotor? :dunno: The bend in the handle bar was obvious riding the rest of the way to school, so a new handle bar will be ordered and the brake system checked thouroughly.
In the future, I'll follow with more space, and practice my braking...
Any feedback would be appreciated
Thanks,
Fin
Toronto, Canada
Good to hear that you are okay. I don't have any real words of wisdom (im a noob), but just to practice braking. Just last week. I practiced locking up the rear brakes. That was so fun, I just wanted to know how it felt so if it happens it wouldn't freak me out. And maybe if you were able to check your mirror really quick and turn your head you could have swirved a little, as if you were trying to split lanes. :dunno:
i'm glad you're ok.
when ever you're in a situation where you have to make a sudden stop, it's almost always better to swerve if you can. even if you stop in time, there's a chance that some can crash into you from the rear. also, always be aware of your surroundings. if you had known if there was car in the adjacent lane, you could have possibly changed lane.
good luck fixing it up
ive been in a couple situations like that too. Once applied just enough brake to keep going straight and split the lane. Another locked up the rear and applies some front...it will cause your rear to swerve out but if you have slowed down to about 40km/h you shouldnt get thrown off. If you have an opportunity to split the lane do it.
Its impossible for us to make the call as to whether swerving would have been a better choice. Depends on the situation, and what you know of what is around you in the few instants you have to make your choice. Was there a shoulder you could have pulled onto to get around them? A grassy knoll or shallow ditch?
True, by not swerving you did put the bike down and hit an automobile... but what if there had been a car in the adjacent lane... or worse... a fast approaching car that wasn't paying attention.
As far as changing your habits to avoid a similar situation later... I routinely check whats around me when I approach cars/obstacles from behind.... but putting myself in your situation (where i don't know whats around me) then I would definitely choose the situation where I have the most knowlegdge and can mitigate the chances of hitting something (or getting hit).
I know people *say* that bikes can stop faster, but I dont' believe them. My gut says thats incorrect, and I ride accordingly. I give cars a much larger berth on the gs than in my mazda 626.
finmac:
I'm glad you're ok, too. :kiss: This is a VERY scary situation to be in. I don't know if you've taken any sort of safety course, but safety courses are an excellent way to learn what to do in emergency situations.
+1 on what JetSwing said. Even when you've managed to stop, it's best to get out of harms way. I had a similar emergency situation a couple of months back (I was able to stop upright, but sideways), and something told me to get the heck out of where I was. I pulled to the left of the car in front of me just in time to avoid being a sammich...the car that had been behind me did NOT stop in time, and they hit the car that had been in front of me.
Please be careful! It's a jungle out there! :cheers:
sorry to hear you went down. glad to hear you are alright. I have been riding for 7 mo after an 11 year break. still consider myself a noob. only thing I might tell ya is give yourself a little more gap between car in front. :dunno:
Quote from: TarzanBoyTrue, by not swerving you did put the bike down and hit an automobile... but what if there had been a car in the adjacent lane... or worse... a fast approaching car that wasn't paying attention.
that's why i said you need be aware of your surrounding at all times!
Sorry to hear that Finmac, Hope you are OK!
Sounds likea case of target fixation.. :(
You end up going where you're looking... Difficult to not do it sometimes, experience is the only way round this and unfortunately the odd mild case of road rash is sometimes inevitable.
Swerving without looking could have ended in a more serious incidient.
From your description of the incident I'd check the following:
Brake Reservoir
Wheel
Steering alignment and bearings
battery (for leaks)
then all the sticky out bits (assuming there are any left) :P
It doesn't sound as if the crash was hard enough to do any frame damage.
Keep smiling fella :) :)
Since swerving and braking are brought up remember you should seperate the two. Swerving while braking can cause you to loose the front.
You didn't really mention your condition, I hope you're okay. I'd still be shaking!!! I'm not sure I could have hopped back on and finished the ride. Were you still on the bike when it hit the car, or had you already fallen off? What kind of safety gear were you wearing? Great job on being able to walk away! :thumb:
I had something like this happen the other day and decided to swerve anyway, not knowing whether anyone was in my blind spot or not. It was either that or sideswipe the retard that turned in front of me. I was lucky noone was there. I have been much more observant since then.
Braking with the front brake while cranked over has the undesireable effect of causing the bike to right itself, usually resulting with you heading off to the scene of the accident :? :?
If desperate you should feather the back brake, Just don't stamp on it as that will have undesirable consequences too.
swerving practice from the msf. either you didn't take the course or you didn't remember. I whould have swerved right and my point of vision whould have been his pass mirror, so that I stayed at tight to the car as possible to minimize the chance of being hit. in cali this is somethign you do every mile or so. you just get used to it.
Glad you're alright.
Now that you have been in that situation, you now have the experience to hopefully avoid future encounters.
You now know:
Not to follow too closely
Not to follow too closely to another vehicle that appears to be following another vehicle too closely.
Observe how others reactions can affect you, and prepare and compensate for what may happen.
That you need to be aware of what's around you, by using your mirrors, memorizing what cars you have passed, onramps that may have a car coming from them, etc. So that you have an escape route.
Quote from: scratchNot to follow too closely
Not to follow too closely to another vehicle that appears to be following another vehicle too closely.
Observe how others reactions can affect you, and prepare and compensate for what may happen.
That you need to be aware of what's around you, by using your mirrors, memorizing what cars you have passed, onramps that may have a car coming from them, etc. So that you have an escape route.
+1
Gotta be aware of what's around you at all times, JUST IN CASE. Practice braking in a big open parking lot regularly so that you can brake safely with maximum force.
Also, if you were going in a stright line and braked and lowsided it sounds like you locked up the front wheel and had the front wash out. It's very common for that to happen when the front locks.
Better a broken bike than a broken body though. Don't swerve into a place where you don't know what's going to be there, especially if it's coming from behind. You've got to know all your options at all times. It sounds like a lot, but that's what it takes when there is an emergency.
You might want to work on the target fixation problem it seemed you had. I don't know of any specific excercises, but I'm sure someone here does. I had/still have that problem to an extent. What I do is go on a twisty road and work on keeping my lines very smooth by concentrating on looking where I want to go.
QuoteI know people *say* that bikes can stop faster, but I dont' believe them. My gut says thats incorrect, and I ride accordingly. I give cars a much larger berth on the gs than in my mazda 626.
I've never seen a car that can stoppie.
Quote from: davipuQuoteI know people *say* that bikes can stop faster, but I dont' believe them. My gut says thats incorrect, and I ride accordingly. I give cars a much larger berth on the gs than in my mazda 626.
I've never seen a car that can stoppie.
yes you have! i might have to dig up the video is you say no
I've never seen one (sober) and therefore if I did see one it dosn't count.
Quote from: davipuI've never seen one (sober) and therefore if I did see one it dosn't count.
if that's the standard, how does anything count, for example, this conversation...? :roll:
and whare's that vid?
You mean the video of the Mini doing the stoppie? I've got that somewhere too.
Cars nowdays can stop almost as fast as motorcycles. I posted a thread about this a while back. I'll dig it up in a minute.
Stoppies are not only braking power but mass distribution and length of the wheelbase (which is essentially another weight distribution factor).
Quote from: davipuand whare's that vid?
it's pretty old...some dude riding (i think it was) a mini around a demo course doing all kinds of tricks. if anyone has seen this video and know where to find it, please let us know
Quote from: davipuand whare's that vid?
Quote from: JetSwingit's pretty old...some dude riding (i think it was) a mini around a demo course doing all kinds of tricks. if anyone has seen this video and know where to find it, please let us knowp
+1 :thumb:
Quote from: AlphaFire X5Stoppies are not only braking power but mass distribution and length of the wheelbase (which is essentially another weight distribution factor).
alpha, please do not start another futile argument
http://xfer.gofastvideo.com/gallery/getitem/501/1/mini.wmv
There's the link.
And it's not futile! It's physics! Physics I say!
is that car wearing rollerblades? :o
Thanks for all the advice. I got back home np with the help of the replies - they cheered me up some. I had all my gear on, helmet, jacket, gloves, jeans, solid shoes, though I didn't spill myself-just the bike. Did the safety course, guess I've still got to do some conserted practicing.
Alpha- your suggestion of doing some twisties to work on 'the look where you wanna go' seems like a good idea, I'll try that.
Riggsy- I've had some time to look at the bike and the damage seems mostly cosmetic, and riding seems fine 'sides the wonky handle bar -I'll keep an eye on my brake system for leaks the steering for any wobbling.
Thanks guys :thumb:
Fin
Just be careful when you're in the twisties. Take it slow, because you don't need to be going super duper fast to work on target fixation. Go on a road you're comfortable with and take it at a comfortable speed.
unfortunately, practicing in a parking lot can only do so much... some stuff you can only learn through REAL experience and real seat time on real roads with everyday situation. Once you really know your bike the only other thing you need is good reflexes and jugement (and sometimes luck).
Personally from what you're explaining, my reaction would of been to brake. I might of done a decision on the fly weather or not to swerve, but usually if you're observative enough you know your surroundings and know the drivers around (IE are they putting on make up, reading a book or paying attention?).. alot of times instincts tells you alot... like the drivers you just know from looking at them that they are about to slam the brakes and cut into a street/driveway (like you see them brake and keeping on turning their heads looking for a house or something etc)... Paying attention is probably the most affective way of preventing an accident, it sounds so simple right? riiiiight... lol
thats why we have accidents, to remind us how little a loss of concentration it takes to go down.
For the bike, think positive... not a better way to get you to spend some extra time (and money :roll: ) with the bike. You'll know it better, and find out a few things about it. If your forks are bent, you'll see it. If your rotor is warped you'll definitely feel it. If your rim is bent, go fast, youll feel it too. Get some dirtbike bars, their neat, look great, and are tough as hell (you might have a hard time with the barends though). Get an engine emblem at your dealer, it will cover up that nasty scratch on the engine cover. If your stearing is a bit crooked, loosten up the pinch bolts on teh front and straighten it up.
Lesson learned, you got it out of the way... only thing left is to move forward and keep enjoying this passion (ADDICTION) we call motorcycling.