well... It finally happened... no I'm not slightly mad, I just went down due to my own stupidity :x it was an unplanned enjoyable ride to ACH where I managed to convince myself to lean more thus increasing my average speed by another 5 mph. The only thing that still kinda scares me is 25mph signs.. so here I am planning to get on the highway but still under the influence of "spirited" riding when I see this stupid 20mph sign, which, just like mentioned before, still is kinda scares me out of going too fast and moreover since there are cars around now I just get spooked and instead of leaning (which as I realize now I could do easily even with my skill) I reach for the brakes... the last thing I remember is MSF instructors voice not to brake in the turn... so now I am not even sure if I went down because I grabbed the brakes too fast or if I actually releazed the brake without wheels being aligned but suddenly I feel like I am a rodeo rider trtying to stay in the saddle when the front of my GS goes left and right trying to get rid of me... 1:0 GS wins :( I learned my gear lesson two years ago when I crashed wihtough any gear at all so I was not hurt too badly. My right big toe is now of Pandy's favorite color, but that I think is because I screwed it up two years ago in no gear crash (dr. said nothing is broken, but somehow it did not bend afterwards and I think that's why it got hurt so much. Except for that I just got a slight pain in the hip and that is basically it.
Crash tested gear:
boots: GPS 3, comfortable, good looking, and almost no damage to boots or feet after the crash (except for the big toe, but again I am not sure how much it would be hurt if it was a healthy finger)
pants: bought less then a week ago Cortech GX, nice fit, almost no damage after the crash, slight pain in the hip, so padding worked rather nicely (I guess you cannot fall so that nothing hurts at all afterwards :) )
helmet: CS12, bumped my head almost didn't feel it, slight scratches on the helmet, no body injury, but I am not sure now if I need a new helmet as people keep saying that there are structural changes even after the first hit. any suggestions on whether I should keep this one or get a new one?
jacket: alpinestar E-5, I like the way it looks, but was torn in one place so I am not sure if that's where the most of the impact went or if that's just a crappy jacket
gloves: tourmaster but not sure what model, look and feel great, armor scratched at the knuckles but not too much, no hands damage.
and finally my steel horse: bent bar, front brake reservoir grinded off but not to the point where it leaks anything, and right small cover on the engine is gone due to me being broke and stupid enough not to get engine guards, scratches on the right side of the bike but hopefully nothing else is damaged too badly...
and the worst part that yesterday was such a busy day that I didn't even have time to contemplate the crash... :P
so the moral of the story I guess is that getting spooked is the luxury of cagers and that I got to practice selfcontrol and brake usage...
now, any of you experienced rider can tell me what exactly has happended? I didn't have time to realize what was going on, so I'd be glad to hear some thoughts of where I went reeealy wrong in all this, like what exactly made my handlebar jump from one side to another till I was out of the saddle.
another question is, do I need a new jacket now, or this one can be patched somehow?
also if anyone can tell me how dangerous it is to ride without right small cover and what are the cheap places to get it (just missed the one sold here yesterday :roll: ) would I be ok if I just get engine guards but not the cover? any cheap places for guards? I am yet to do a search on theese, so please don't waste your time with search wishes :) just let me know if you know a good place to shop.
ok, that's about it folks.
Keep the rubber side down :thumb:
Springsteen. The f%$king man.
Dave :cheers:
Regarding your helmet: it's possible you might need a new one, but it is also possible you won't. Send it in to the manufacturer and ask them to evaluate it for you to see if it is still wearable. When I went down on the '92 I smacked my head really hard and my helmet lost some paint and got scraped up a bit. Looked bad, but possibly still useable. I sent it in to Shoei and they sent it back (they paid for shipping back) saying no dice on wearing it again. I checked under the padding on the inside and saw the EPS liner had cracks running all the way through it. Send yours in, just to be safe.
As for the jacket, it should be fine for a while. Practice your sewing skills and stitch that sucker back up!
Glad you're alright.
Also, I'd go ahead and look for a small engine cover AND crash bars. Crash bars are hard to find, though. (I'd know, I'm still looking for some). It might be easier to order them from Suzuki.
Get a new helmet.
I crashed about a year and four months ago. I've had duct tape on my right side engine cover ever since (covering that little hole where the bolt-thing spins). Works fine. Sometimes I have to replace it after it falls off, but I've had the current piece on for like four months.
Only my helmet got trashed (i mean really trashed, impact and slid the whole way just about on my head... was unconcious. Visor was no where to be found) in my crash. Some holes in my shirt and a tear in my jeans from my cell phone. Minor road rash on my arm. Helmet saved my life. The only other gear I was wearing were my gloves. And some jeans if you can call that gear. I had a white under-t-shirt on, and I think I had my Alpinestars boots on. It was just a quick run to pick this chick up from work and it was kinda hot... then it started pouring down rain and this truck and...
Anyway. Replace the helmet. The jackets not too big of a deal but if you have some extra cash to throw that way and find another one you like, go for it, especially if you feel like the one you have kinda cheaped out.
Quote from: EklipseGet a new helmet.
I crashed about a year and four months ago. I've had duct tape on my right side engine cover ever since (covering that little hole where the bolt-thing spins). Works fine. Sometimes I have to replace it after it falls off, but I've had the current piece on for like four months.
the thing is I basically don't have anything to put the tape on anymore :) had the tape there myself till yesterday, but now the cover itself is all cracked and barely hold to the big cover.
and I think I will get a new helmet but not the jacket... I've been a negative budget student for quite a while, so I am trying to follow The Way of the Srinath, The Cheap Master :mrgreen:
and my arms did not get jurt, so I guess the jacket did what it was supposed to do..
Sorry to hear, that sucks.
Sorry to hear, but glad you're ok!!! :kiss:
You gonna post a purple pic?? :lol: ;)
no, Pandy, that would be too much temptation for you, you can buy a purple GS, but you cannot buy a purple toe for all the money in the world.. so I keep the pics of my precious to myself :mrgreen: :nana:
:( You're so mean!
:mrgreen:
Hey glad to hear youre OK. I agree with sending the helmet back. They will be able to tell if it is still usable even if you can't see anything with the NAKED eye. :)
Replace the helmet, even if they do 'tests' there is no actual way to ensure that there is not a hair line fracture anywhere in the foam or shells. And remember that there is rarely anytime when cornering when you lean to much, it is better to keep leaning than to try and sit up (assuming no obstacle in front of you) Glad to hear you're ok.
Glad you're allright.
Quote from: SoaringI just went down due to my own stupidity. It was an unplanned enjoyable ride to ACH where I managed to convince myself to lean more thus increasing my average speed by another 5 mph. The only thing that still kinda scares me is 25mph signs.. so here I am planning to get on the highway but still under the influence of "spirited" riding when I see this stupid 20mph sign, which, just like mentioned before, still is kinda scares me out of going too fast and moreover since there are cars around now I just get spooked and instead of leaning (which as I realize now I could do easily even with my skill) I reach for the brakes... the last thing I remember is MSF instructors voice not to brake in the turn... so now I am not even sure if I went down because I grabbed the brakes too fast or if I actually releazed the brake without wheels being aligned but suddenly I feel like I am a rodeo rider trtying to stay in the saddle when the front of my GS goes left and right trying to get rid of me...
now, any of you experienced rider can tell me what exactly has happended? I didn't have time to realize what was going on, so I'd be glad to hear some thoughts of where I went realy wrong in all this, like what exactly made my handlebar jump from one side to another till I was out of the saddle.
No, not exactly, but it sounds like you got into a tankslapper while accelerating onto the freeway.
Quote from: Soaringanother question is, do I need a new jacket now, or this one can be patched somehow?
Have it sown by a reputable motorcycle racesuit maker; I'm not sure who's down there around you, maybe pm Pantoblo, but someone like J. Lindo Leathers or Helimot (do websearch). You need to have stitching that is made to withstand abrasion, and have stitching that can take an impact.
Quote from: Soaringalso if anyone can tell me how dangerous it is to ride without right small cover? Would I be ok if I just get engine guards but not the cover?
It's not dangerous, just don't crash without one. It will get very dirty, and electronics don't do well exposed...or when they're exposed to rain.
thanks guys! I guess that shipping the helmet back and forth will cost me about the same as a new helmet (mine was cs12 which is like $100)
now my question is what's a tankslapper and what do you do to avoid it (or the other way, what is it that you need to avoid so that you don't get it)?
scratch, thanks for the sower tip :thumb:
Pandy, I am not mean I am mean now :)
Quote from: SoaringPandy, I am not mean I am mean now :)
No way...you're just plain MEAN! *I'm* the one who's
mean! :P :mrgreen:
What colour helmet you gonna buy? I have a S new Scorpio EXO-400 that's blue but that would love to be red. ;)
a tank slapper is caused by reducing the amount of downforce on the front wheel, to the point whare the tire grip over comes the inertia of the wheel spinning and the tire once it is out of the line of motion will grip on the outside of the tire. ie the bars go to the right so the tire is pointing to the right of the line of motion so the left side of the tire is the leading edge when the grip of that side of the tire overcomes the weight of the front suspention it will violently jerk to that side, and then it will repeat to the other side untill either you crash or you pick the front end up off the ground and remove all the rubber off the ground and allow the front wheel to stabalize it's self before bring it down.
the term tank slapper comes from the violent motion that is generated by the handle bars and looks like they are trying to slap in the sides of the tank.
Note: this is also why you see good racers picking up the front end when coming out of the last turn onto the straightaways. due to the amount of power that is being applied the front end is so light on the ground that tank slapping can easily happen.
see sig line below for disclaimer.
Pandy, well may be I am not mean yet, but I am definitely mean at this point :)
as for the helmet I already made a mistake of getting an S Icon helmet that caused me quite a bit of headache, so yours will have to get more nutrition before it grows Large and fits my head :)
Quote from: davipu... and remove all the rubber off the ground ...
That's exactly what I did, removed ALL the rubber off the ground :lol:
thanks for the info though, I think that's exactly what happened to me... now? in what situation can tankslapper happen and how to avoid it (I am not sure what you mean by "picking up the front end " :dunno:
Quote from: davipuand then it will repeat to the other side untill either you crash or you pick the front end up off the ground and remove all the rubber off the ground and allow the front wheel to stabalize it's self before bring it down.
Is picking the front wheel off the ground even possible in those types of sitations given the lack of power the gs generates? I guess teh only way to do that is punching the throttle...(?)...
Quote from: themaffeoIs picking the front wheel off the ground even possible in those types of sitations given the lack of power the gs generates? I guess teh only way to do that is punching the throttle...(?)...
An expert can wheelie any type of bike.
Even a Gold Wing.
no not really, unless you clutch it up which is going to be rather hard with the gs's lack of power. there are some things that can help lead to this happening like a front tire being low on air pressure (which causes a contact patch that is too wide in relation to it's length) fork oil at different levels in the forks (which can lead to different damping rates in the forks and can cause one side of the tire to grip more than the other). all motorcycles will want to do this at one point or another, but it's usually at a certian rate of speed combined with a rate of acceleration and a combination of how the bike is loaded down with the precentage of weight over the front forks being the most critical aspect.
so I am totally lost now... from your words it looks like there's no aparent reason for a slapper (I checked the tires and my 138 lbs was the only weight on the bike, the only thing left is fork oil but there's no obvious way to check the levels..) and once you are in it there's no way out... puts things in a different perspective... basically any time without any extra help you can go down and you cannot do anything about it... sounds quite scary to me :o
Steering damper, but it's a bandaid fix.
Tire pressures, steering head bearings too loose, forks too high in the triple clamps, rear raised up too high. These can be contributing factors towards a tankslapper. More specifically on the forks and rear being too high, is that the attitude of the chassis is changed to the point that rake and trail are reduced, sacrificing stability.
Man I am glad your ok.Look on ebay for the side cover if i see any I will email you.
so are there some specific measurements for all of these or how does one make sure he's not going to get a slapper? is it in the manual somewhere? any suggestions are appreciated cause now I am not even sure I want to get on my bike before I check all of this stuff...
Start here: http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/introduction.htm
Your bike hasn't changed since you last rode it, and it hasn't done this before for however long you've been riding it, so unless you can duplicate the conditions that caused your first tankslapper, it's probably not going to happen again.
I need more information, so muster up your diagnostic skills, and tell me what you can recall from what happened in more detail.
Quote from: Soaringor if I actually releazed the brake without wheels being aligned but suddenly I feel like I am a rodeo rider trtying to stay in the saddle when the front of my GS goes left and right trying to get rid of me
Define:
Quote from: Soaringthe front of my GS goes left and right
And: "without wheels being aligned"
I read about your 'accident' several times. I hope I learn something new that keeps me on the seat of the GS for many miles more.
At least you feel well enough to post about it.
Quote from: Soaringso are there some specific measurements for all of these or how does one make sure he's not going to get a slapper? is it in the manual somewhere? any suggestions are appreciated cause now I am not even sure I want to get on my bike before I check all of this stuff...
Is your bike stock? Are the tops of the fork tubes flush with the tripleclamp? Tire pressures?
The next thing to do is to set suspension sag, as per the link I supplied.
Hey Scratch, nice link! Looks like a deep well of knowledge :)
as for definitions
I just remember that at MSF we were told that you cannot let go of the brake still you straighten the bike, so that both wheels are in the same direction.
and for the front going left and right, that's "as is", handlebar was going from one side to another (two or three times before I was kicked out of the saddle) and I had no control over it whatsoever. Also as far as I can remember the road surface became different at the highway entrance, don't know if that played a role as well...
Quote from: scratchQuote from: Soaringso are there some specific measurements for all of these or how does one make sure he's not going to get a slapper? is it in the manual somewhere? any suggestions are appreciated cause now I am not even sure I want to get on my bike before I check all of this stuff...
Is your bike stock? Are the tops of the fork tubes flush with the tripleclamp? Tire pressures?
The next thing to do is to set suspension sag, as per the link I supplied.
bike is stock except for mirrors :) tires are good as I checked them recently, but I am not sure what do you mean by "Are the tops of the fork tubes flush with the tripleclamp?"
Possible the road irregularity may have something to do with it. Was there a significant edge between the two different surfaces?
and I don't think I'll be able to recall anything else. I was going 35-40 the sign at the entrance stated 20mph so I reached for the brakes, then I remember thinking that I shouldn't brake in the turn and another thought that you don't wan't to let go of the brake if your bike is not straightened up. I am not sure if I actually reacted on any of these thoughts. the next thing I know my handlebars goes from one side to another, the bike was not leaning or at least not that much, at that point I was on new road surface and in a few sec I was flying and landing on my right side, I think it felt like I was kicked up a little but may be that's just an impression.. so just like i said, I don't think I can remember anything else.. unless you ask for something specific, then I might be able to remember something more
do you mean whether there was a bump? I don't think so, although not too sure, those who ride to ACH and on the way back take 210w might correct me here.
ok, here's some more info I found on tankslappers, for those who might be interested.. a friend of mine with tons of experience told me that most probably the slapper happened because I was holding the handlebar too tightly (and that makes sense because I got spooked and most probably DID grab the handlebar with all my strength) and that is the worst thing you can do. you need to do just the opposite, relax your grip and teh slapper won't get to a violent stage and will die soon because of the rotating front wheel momentum. My friend had a chance to try it with this:
http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/braking-bike.php
and the first time when he braked haard holding on to the handlebar the slapper happened way before the wheel locked, when he tried second time with relaxed grip, there was no sign of a slapper till the wheel locked..
hope this helps someone to avoid this stupid mistake, as instinctively I think most people would grab the bar when scared instead of letting it go easy...