I've seen that many of you have upgraded to a Progressive front suspension. I also hear that the stock suspension sucks.
Is this also true for the 2005 GS, or just the older ones? Do you recommend the after market suspension for the new bike?
Justin
You can do amazing things with the stock suspension, including becoming a better rider.
http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/introduction.htm
I couldn't handle the constant bottoming out of the front, so I had to change it to progressives. It's been well worth it. The rears seems fine to me, but for the hell of it, I upped the preload a couple of notches and that too feels fine, but I'm a newb so I wouldn't know right from wrong. But I do know that bottoming out on everything is not a good thing. Maybe if I was 50 lbs lighter I wouldn't have had that problem.
Ja, I've hit the front brake hard enough to lock it without bottoming out. :P
That doesn't make front-end dive the most delightful thing, but I'm not in a hurry to upgrade to stiffer springs. It's comfy.
Just to note: I went from stock, to Progressives, back to stock with washers for spacers (adjustablilty), but I'm 125lbs. I have noticed that with the stock springs 1/8" of preload equals about 1/16" less sag.
Additionally, washers can be bought for cents, while the Progressives are $'s (it's only $50; I know :roll: note: I still have my Progressives in the box, on the shelf).
I am seriously considering doing this mod in the Spring, but there is still about 10% of doubt in me about whether I should do it or not. The doubt is rooted in the question: Will it be worthwhile?
I don't go to the track, and I don't scrape pegs when I corner. So I just wonder if the progressives really are worth it if you are not so much a "sport rider".
However, I *have* felt the front end flex quite a lot and notice it bottoms out quite a bit sometimes. I'm about 170lbs. The way I figure it, it sure can't hurt to upgrade and I want the best for my GS - so I'll probably do it, despite the fact that I am not the world's greatest sport rider :P
Mine bottom out whenever I'm braking on crappy Seattle streets...
I've been trying to decide what to do for a while... I read good and bad about progressives... I've read good about spacers, but also read that it's not really what I want to do to fix the bottoming out problem.
I've been thinking about simply adding stiffer springs... But, they cost the same as progressives and I'm still not sure it's what I really want.
I'm paralyzed with indecision.
Have you just tried spacers, or just washers? Those would be the least expensive option to try out. You just need to try and experience for yourself. You'll never know until you try.
I haven't tried anything... I've just thought about what to do and done nothing... I'm kinda like a committee in my own head on this one. :dunno:
May I help you get you started in a direction?
A mere suggestion - Go to Orchard Supply and buy a 6 pack of these washers: http://www.gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=209561#209561
Loosen the upper triples, prop the bike up on its centerstand, remove the handlebars, prop up the front end, take out the fork caps, put in three washers in each tube and reassemble. Go ride. Come back here and tell us what you think.
Get a roll of quarters...that way when someone asks how much preload you use, you can say "about two bucks worth".
Yep, and if you ever run out of gas, you can disasseble your forks for a couple more dollars of gas. :roll:
Quote from: BadgerGet a roll of quarters...that way when someone asks how much preload you use, you can say "about two bucks worth".
*RIMSHOT* :lol:
If anything, I think the installation of the springs would be a good endeavor for learning more about how the bike works, how it is put together, etc. That is valuable "wrenching time"; and I would consider the $50-60 an educational expense (with the value added benefit that it handles better). :thumb: I am still a wrenching noob, so any opportunity that increases both my knowledge AND the bike's ability, has to be good. Right? :dunno:
Quote from: scratchA mere suggestion - Go to Orchard Supply and buy a 6 pack of these washers: http://www.gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=209561#209561
Loosen the upper triples, prop the bike up on its centerstand, remove the handlebars, prop up the front end, take out the fork caps, put in three washers in each tube and reassemble. Go ride. Come back here and tell us what you think.
What is Orchard Supply? You told me about these earlier, but I still have no idea what Orchard Supply is. Is it just a hardware store? Maybe I'll just go to the hardware store and pick up some 1/8" thick washers.
So... There are a few things I'm worried about doing, knowing my tendancy to meat-fist every bolt I've ever met... Here they are:
Quote from: scratchLoosen the upper triples, and reassemble.
Did you use a torque wrench or are you mechanically inclined? I can borrow (or at least use) someone else's torque wrench, but I'm pretty sure I'd find a way to screw the whole thing up. :oops:
Quote from: AlphaFire X5
What is Orchard Supply?
It's a general hardware store. Sorta like Rural King or Tractor Supply Company, but without all the tractor stuff. I think most of their stores are in central California (At least the one's I've been to.)
Oops, sorry, Orchard Supply Hardware; which unfortuneatley has been bought out by Sears...but anyway, yes go to a hardware store and I believe 1" diameter or 1 and 1/8" diameter by 1/8" thick (daimeter is more important, as you can use more or less washers depending on teh thickness).
Actually, I' not mechanically inclined, but I am a trained m/c mechanic who's become mechanically inclined. When tightening the upper triples (which are allen bolts) use only the short end to tighten the bolt, this way you can't use the leverage of the longer part to overtorque the bolt. Now, the fork cap has fine threads, so on this, make sure the cap is level with the fork and screw in slowly; once it snugs down (it'll noticably stop), you really don't have to turn it any more.
I live in pei canada and i want stiffer front suspension! no need!! I have heard of spacers , but what do i use that is readily available? i can do endos but the front end dive is really hard on the groin at speeds above 100 kph so i would think this might help my stunt riding, endos are way better than wheelies and so easy to do on a light bike!
Schedule 40 PVC pipe cut the length to your heart's content. Usually .75 inches, which happens to be the length of one of the S40 PVC pipe endcaps.
After having a long discussion with John at ZoomCycle in San Mateo, CA and Phil at Aftershocks in Redwood City, CA they passed on to me the following info:
The GS500 has a 37mm fork tube. At the moment, there is no one that they know of producing straight rate springs in different spring rates for the bike. The "Interceptor" and some other makes of bikes share the 37mm fork size. Some of these models used to be very popular track bikes and as a result, a couple of years ago, there used to be a large selection of straight rate springs that could be installed on the GS to match rider weight and riding style.
This year, however, it is very difficult to find the appropriately tuned straight rate spring for riders under about ~170 if they can be found at all. As a result, they suggested that I install progressive rate springs that had been cut (to adjust the spring rate to my weight, 155 lbs without gear) and shimmed (using PVC pipe, apparently industry standard).
Not only is this the cheap way ($80 for springs, $35 for labor including install, total ~$130 with taxes and such), it may be the only way to tune up the suspension on the front of my 2000 GS500E with new parts for under several hundred dollars.
The other alternative would be to source springs that are no longer being produced.
Phil and John also mentioned that adding spacers to the front fork only raises the front ride height, putting more weight on the rear wheel. While this does make the bike bottom less on the front, the reduced spring compression on the front is a result of the shifted weight and not of stiffer front springs. However, on this last point, I'm not sure if they are correct as so many posters on this forum have indicated otherwise.
I hope that helps. I plan on upgrading to progressives as it scares the shaZam! out of me when I'm in a turn and hit a bump and the front wheel bottoms then shoots back out to grab traction.
Just my two cents.
O
You can get straight rate springs here (http://www.racetech.com/evalving/english/Srchpr.asp?bikeid=367&manufacture=Suzuki&model=GS500&year=01%2D03&TABLEINFO=street&langname=english) for $109.
They have a weight calculator too... At 170 they recomend 0.782 kg/mm rather than the stock 0.594 kg/mm.
Quote from: Octous
Phil and John also mentioned that adding spacers to the front fork only raises the front ride height, putting more weight on the rear wheel. While this does make the bike bottom less on the front, the reduced spring compression on the front is a result of the shifted weight and not of stiffer front springs. However, on this last point, I'm not sure if they are correct as so many posters on this forum have indicated otherwise.
O
Heh. Who are you going to believe? The specialists who do suspensions for a living, or the GStwin conventional
wisdom. :P Phil & John have it right, it's been stated here before, but then people have their own theories and the truth gets lost over time. That paragraph should be included any DIY suspension FAQ.
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Quote from: GisserQuote from: Octous
Phil and John also mentioned that adding spacers to the front fork only raises the front ride height, putting more weight on the rear wheel. While this does make the bike bottom less on the front, the reduced spring compression on the front is a result of the shifted weight and not of stiffer front springs. However, on this last point, I'm not sure if they are correct as so many posters on this forum have indicated otherwise.
O
Heh. Who are you going to believe? The specialists who do suspensions for a living, or the GStwin conventional wisdom. :P Phil & John have it right, it's been stated here before, but then people have their own theories and the truth gets lost over time. That paragraph should be included any DIY suspension FAQ.
It is true. Preload does not change the spring rate (.594kg/mm). I went back to the stock spring rate, because it is softer than the .8kg/mm Progressives which are too stiff for my weight (125lbs, which would require a .715kg/mm spring rate as suggested by
RaceTech.com's site), and I ride in the rain alot, furthering my need for a softer spring. This is why in almost every suspension thread I include PVD's site, which mentions spring rate.
Soo... hey scratch... whatcha gonna do with those Progressives lying around? Want to sell them to me?
I'm working out, so I may still need them (my target is 135lbs).
I should really get back onto my workout schedule. I weigh 130 right now. Sad thing is, I've LOST weight since I got into college. Mind boggling.
I'm trying to stay down to 170... :lol:
Quote from: scratch
It is true. Preload does not change the spring rate (.594kg/mm). I went back to the stock spring rate, because it is softer than the .8kg/mm Progressives which are too stiff for my weight (125lbs, which would require a .715kg/mm spring rate as suggested by RaceTech.com's site)
Progressives are dual rate springs, so one wonders if that .8kg/mm is the soft rate or the firm rate? Oh, well, you tested, it's too firm for your liking. You could try replacing the preload spacers with short sections of the stock spring and have a triple rate spring. It would definitely be softer. :cheers:
.574kg/mm is the soft rate, but it feels like with even only 3/8ths inches of preload (3 washers), that those coils are used up in just getting the proper Rider sag (1.5inches).
When I got my 89 GS, it was bottoming out left and right, any tie I hit a bump (like entering a driveway). At the same time, the fork seals went. I brought my bike to Evolution Suspension in San Jose, California (GREAT shop). So, older GS500s have a much lower volume of oil in the fork than the newer ones. I forget what year they chaged this. The design did not change, however, only the volume of oil in the fork. So, I had some spacers thrown in and the volume of oil increased. The bike bottoms out very rarely now, only when I enter one particular driveway a little faster than I should. Cheap fix that worked well with minimal hardware required.
Quote from: scratch.574kg/mm is the soft rate, but it feels like with even only 3/8ths inches of preload (3 washers), that those coils are used up in just getting the proper Rider sag (1.5inches).
It doesn't work that way. Remember the paragraph I quoted: Preload does not squish the spring, it raises the ride height. The bike/rider weight squishes the spring and we can make a nerdy looking guestimate how much soft-rate travel is leftover after sag is factored in...
8Kg/mm is 39% firmer than .574kg/mm
Typical spring (GS450)= 80 coils (78 coil gaps)
= .155 wire diameter
= 20" free length (12" collapsed length)(8" difference)
So 31 coils (39% of total) are "progressively wound." Let's say these are wound 30% tighter than the firm coils.
Figure the softer spring gaps as...
48X + 30(.7X) = 8"
X = .116" .7X = .08"
So 30 coil gaps X .08" = 2.4" worth of soft travel.
Figure you have .75" actual preload and 2.250 total sag. That means 3" worth of spring compression at rest.
Thirty-nine percent (1.17") came out of the soft windings which means
1.23" of soft travel still available. That sounds generous--the key variables being the actual preload and the percentage tighter the "progressive" coils are wound than the rest.
Of course, in the real world, the Progressives were still too firm for your liking. :roll:
Is that bike sag (sans rider)? That's why I stated it feels like the remainder of the soft coils are used up in Rider sag.
That was bike & rider sag. You know, it doesn't make much sense that a 125 lb rider could max out the initial spring rate before so much as hitting a bump in the road when Progressive's target market must range from average riders between 120-to-180 lbs. You'd expect to have an extra inch to an inch and a half of .574kg/mm rate travel when all is said and done. If you know these figures...
1) spring wire diameter
2) number of coils
3) number of closer wound coils
4) spring free length
5) free length of just the closely wound section of coils
......then you can get a good idea how much of the suspension travel is sprung at the .574kg/mm rate. :cheers: