GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

I've been mulling this around in the ol' knoggin' all day now, and I was wondering how much interest people might have. I was thinking about making two different top triple clamps.

The first one would be for people who use normal style clip-ons that clamp to the fork tube. It would be a billet aluminum piece that would remove the handlebar mounting locations for a much cleaner look. I could design nifty little cuts into it as well, for aesthetics. That's the basic premise of it though.

The second one would be a replica of the 1989 style clamp with the clip-on mounts and everything. Also machined out of billet aluminum, this would be a direct replacement, with possible visual modifications to avoid legal ramifications.

Both would use stock mounting hardware, with no drilling or cutting required. These would be direct bolt ons. I've got my own CAD software to work with (SolidWorks 2005) so these would be mapped out in 3D before machining.

Interest? Responses? Comments? Questions?

There are at least a half-dozen people that want '89 clip-ons.  If the price was right, you could probably sell more than a few dozen of them.

no.

you have been pancaked.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/davipu/BSsYEWJ668o2lO4tj5BWfBCvNVXG.jpg)

Quote from: RVertigoThere are at least a half-dozen people that want '89 clip-ons.  If the price was right, you could probably sell more than a few dozen of them.

What do you think a fair price would be? I know there was one that sold on eBay for $114 recently.

Well, it depends on your goal... Are you looking to make money or do something cool for your GS buddies?  If you're looking to make money, then you should charge a "fair market value" for the product.  If you're looking to do something cool for your GS buddies, then charge cost plus a few bucks for time.

I wouldn't mind making some cash off of it, but I'd also like to not be an ass and overcharge. Would you buy one if the price was around, say, $50?

I think $50 would be a great price, but I still wouldn't buy one 'cause I don't want clip-ons...  If I wanted clip-ons, I know right where to get some...  :lol:

You can't really come up with a price until you know how much it's gonna cost you...  If the raw materials + machine use (+ wear & tear) == $60, then you'd have to charge that as a minimum, unless you're an NPO.

Then...  If it takes you 4 hours to make one, figure that in...  Nobody will argue with paying you for your time.

But...  If you're looking to actually make money, you want to charge as much as people are willing to pay.  If you saw some going for $100+, that means you could charge at least $90-$100 for them...  But, then there's also implied safety and all that crap...

Yeah. The first thing I want to do is design out the standard top triple for people with regular clip-ons. I can do that a lot easier because I've got a clamp to design off of. The 1989 one, however, I don't.

SOMEONE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SEND ME DETAILED PICTURES OF THE 1989 TOP TRIPLE CLAMP

What would be best, though, is if someone could send me one that I could use for a while to get measurements off of.

RVert, think you could jack the top clamp off that '89 in the parking garage for a while?

Quote from: AlphaFire X5RVert, think you could jack the top clamp off that '89 in the parking garage for a while?

I dunno...  I still need to put a note on it to see if anyone at the apartment owns it.

At very least I can measure some stuff...

http://www.jayspang.com/pics/gs500/004.jpg

That's the only clean pic I've got so far of it.

For measurements, I'd need a lot of them to get a detailed and perfectly scale model. I'd probably design the first top clamp first, and then modify it to hold the clip ons. The '89 looks like it uses the same clamp, minus the standard handlebar mounting points.

Well...  Maybe RG will lend the use of her camera for some detailed pics...  My digicam sucks. :dunno:

GeeP gave me a reply. I typed out all the measurements I thought I might need and it was a fairly hefty list. This could be fun.

ive got both type, the stock 89 clipons  (top plate still on but bars in box) and real 37mm alumin Clipons (soon to come off and 89's to go back on)

Quote from: Blueknytive got both type, the stock 89 clipons  (top plate still on but bars in box) and real 37mm alumin Clipons (soon to come off and 89's to go back on)

I've been talking with some other people, and trying to manufacture the clamps that hold the bars on would be pretty difficult. It's got a lot of features. The top plate would be the easy part, but those clamps might be kinda tough. I'm going to talk with some MEs here on campus and get their opinion on it.

The normal top plate could be done. All I need to know is how much interest there is for it.

I'm game! $50 to convert my bike to clip-ons like an 89, heck yes.

Quote from: kvgsI'm game! $50 to convert my bike to clip-ons like an 89, heck yes.

According to GeeP, we're looking at $38 alone for raw materials. Billet aluminum is expensive, apparently. I'll look into what other things we can use, though. I'm also going to look into getting someone here on campus that knows how to operate the CNC machine. This might actually work... it all depends on wether I can find a machinist.

OK Do not do a cast one like the 89. I have destroyed 4 of them, OK I destroyed 2 and had 2 others come to me busted ... the threads are easy to bust ... helicoil works great though ... and I have been told by some experienced people to use loctite before putting it in and it should stay in there forever ... I had some on my 89 and 4 years they didn't budge  :thumb:  ... 6061, 7075 or other machinable allloys are a good choice, 6063 is not. 2024 may be good as well ... you want high machinability and weldability or whatever isn't relevant. High strength too of course.
Cool.
Srinath.

These won't be welded at all, Srinath. These are going to be straight machined. However, I might just design the tube clamps right into the top plate, rather than having them bolt onto it. That could alleviate stress points caused by the bolt holes.

What do you think? Perhaps weld the clamps on, or design them in?

I know they wont be welded, which is why I said weldability isn't a concern - read my post. However If you do want a weldable alloy get 6061, its weldable and a great general purpose alloy. There is one advantage though to designing it with a welded on part. That dash carrier ears will be a bear to machine, having them made separately and welding it on is a better solution. The 1 piece design will make that part more complicated.
Cool.
Srinath.

Make it out of Al 6061, and no heat temper is really necessary(i.e T-6 or T-65), it will easly cost you ton to make these. Send me your CAD model when your done..(IGES preferably) and I can send it to my buddy who owns a machine shop with a ver nice CNC Milling machine. If you want to do it excatly how the 89' was done it will take like a couple steps which equal more money. If you are not really famialar with CAD send the dimensions and/or drawings to me and I can draw it. CAD the stuff I do at work all day so I know it pretty well.

[edit] Where is the good pic of the '89 clip on??

Quote from: coll0412Where is the good pic of the '89 clip on??

This is about as good as it gets right now...

http://www.jayspang.com/pics/gs500/004.jpg

Bike bandit shows the clip on to be bolted to the triple tree, so it could be easier to machine than I thought

(http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/assets/schematics/Suzuki/SU0083_047.gif)

I'll buy one.

from what I can gather I think your costs will be a bit more than $50 a clamp. I work in CAD / CNC projects at work and i can tell you for sure there is a fair bit of maching involved in this. You also have to take into account if the machine shop has right tools. how much bits are, how many steps in maching, programming time, how many you want. The more units they can run at once the cheaper. Because even if you want 1 or 100 it will still take same time for machine set up and programming.

I'm not trying to put you off, just giving you a realistic perspective on it.
I am currently setting up a service offering maching for engine side covers, swing arms pretty much and metal at all. I will do one offs or bulk. Basically i come up with designs (or customers own) and get them machined into engine side covers etc. Best customers are harley riders. (cause their all wankers ) they get their gang patch machined into their side cover. They like it and I charge them like a wounded bull !

I have a pretty sweet Japanese style dragon I am going to get machined into a small disc to replace the suzuki decals on engine side covers. Will post pics once done.

I like the dragon idea.  I'd love to see it when you're done.   :thumb:

I will post some pics once i have it done. I am more than happy to do it for you people over there but with freight etc from the states to Australia might make it a bit more expensive.

But the plan is hopefully if it goes well I will get a dozen or so of these machined discs and freight for them would be fine. But for big things like side covers, swing arms it would porbably work out to be a fortune. Since you guys are over seas I have no problem sending you my CAD designs to see if you can find someone over there who can do them.

my standard file types are dxf,dwg,cad3,ascii. Or I can give it to you in plain old g-code
:thumb:

p.s. not that any of you probably care But Australia is going to the world cup !!!!!

We've got a CNC machine here on campus, so that helps me out a bit. Billet aluminum might be kinda pricey, so an Al alloy is where I'd probably go for this project. Also, I don't think the tube clamps are bolted to the triple. They are mounted to the plate that goes over the triple. There is the silver plate on top of the black triple.

I COULD design something that is similar to this, except that instead of the clamps being bolted on they would be integrated into the plate, making it one solid parts.

coll0412 - I'm not really THAT familiar, but I'd like to try it, just to increase my skills, if anything. I've been working with it for a few months now, so I've got a bit of it down. I'll probably design my own, as well as send you the dimensions in case you want to do it as well.

The clamps don't look as bad as I though. They're a solid rectagular block on bottom with a slot cut out, then an angled solid part along the right which then arcs over the top and down, meeting up with an extension of the bottom feature. Insert holes for the tubes and bolts, cut a slot out for the clamping, and fillet all the edges to make it stress less and bam, you got it. It might take me a few hours (or days, depending on my work schedule), but I think I could do it.

I'm still looking for a machinist here on campus that can help me out. I haven't had time to go down to the machine shop as I've been overloaded with Calculus and Chemistry homework.

The bolts that hold the clamps to the top plate and the ones that clamp the bars down... is it just me or are those allen heads? Anyone with an '89 know? There is a nuts and bolts store here where I can get lots of very nice stainless nuts and bolts for cheap. I'd have to include those in the package as well, but that's fairly easy.

Last thing: Do y'all think I should design one the way the '89 is exactly, or do you think I should modify it a bit, and how?

The bolts are allen heads, but ther are super wide grip length and relatively a small head. The threaded area is smallish too ... BTW those are same for a 90+ bike too. Just that you dont see it, its under the bars at the bottom of the pillow blocks. So just have the people use theirs.
Cool.
Srinath.

yeah cost is hard to determine since it may be hard to machine the triple tree top clamp thing. But since handle bars bolt on, it should make it a little easier, but i think you could save money buy making it a easiar to machine..(no fancy fillets since al 6061 should be plenty strong or no chamfer thing where the key goes) but that is just an idea.


As far as cost goes, setup costs are usually much more than material costs, my guess is if we could get 10 made probabaly about $100 to $125.
That would be just for the base, the addiational cost of the clamps for the handlebars plus handlebars yikes it could get spendy. But the more we make the cheaper it is...ahh economies of scale....

Sign me up, I'll put some money aside so I have the cash to pitch if it goes through.

I'm fairly certain the bars are just 7/8 inch tubes. Cut to length, smooth at the ends and shazam, you're good to go.

Are fillets really that hard to machine out? I have yet to get certified for our shop, so I'm not trained in the machines yet.

One thing I could do is machine it out cheaply (no fillets) and then smooth the edges myself. That could get REALLY time consuming though. If I've got a CNC machine, wouldn't the fillets be alright? I'd prefer having them on there and removing the cutout where the key goes if it needs to be one or the other. The fillets are more than strengthening features; they make it appear much more finished, cleaner.

For the price you listed, is that total cost to me for setup/materials, or is that the cost you think should be charged? I was going to start with around 10 anyways, because I'm sure there could be enough demand to sell those.

hmm..I thnk you mean the rounds, fillet is like a round between to perpedicular surfaces, and the fillet fills in between the two surfaces, a round is like around the outside of two perpedcular surfaces to remove material...so a fillet adds material between to perpedicular surfaces, and a round removes material from a perpedicular surface, in the eyes of building the model, its the exact opposite when you machine it.

To make it cheaper you want it so the CNC machine cuts out our patter, with rounds and holes and everything, the goes and makes a cut to remove material for the gage cluster mount. we would make ours a flat plate, i am not sure if thickness changes over the distince of the plate but we should  desgin it so we could use a common stock of plate al 6061

This seems like a cool idea.

One question though: What makes clip-ons so great? What is there to like. I have them, but don't know why they are so desirable. (even if there are people like RVertigo who don't desirable them)

Quote from: coll0412To make it cheaper you want it so the CNC machine cuts out our patter, with rounds and holes and everything, the goes and makes a cut to remove material for the gage cluster mount. we would make ours a flat plate, i am not sure if thickness changes over the distince of the plate but we should  desgin it so we could use a common stock of plate al 6061

I'm fairly certain the plate is the same thickness all the way through. I don't think there are any fillets on the clamps, though. The clamps are squared off and mount flush with the top plate, with a bit of the clamp going over the top of the plate. The top plate is the easy part. The clamps are going to be the tough parts. Convienently though, the clamps are exactly the same, so we've only got to design one.

Anyone with '89 clip ons going to be storing their bike over the winter and want to let me borrow their clip ons for design purposes?

Quote from: NightRyderWhat makes clip-ons so great?

Lower, more agressive riding position...  And looks.  Clip-ons are cooler, more "cafe" looking than a single bar.

I just couldn't stand city riding with bars that low...  I want higher ones when I'm in the city...  and lower ones when I'm on the freeway.  So, I guess mine are just right.  :thumb:

I'd be up for for some clip ons for my 05.

I am currently trying to buy the triple tree clamp as we speak, so i think I will still need the handle bar holder, but maybe I can get some from someone on the forum  ;)

You're getting the '89 top plate, but it doesn't come with the bars or clamps? That's odd. Where are you trying to buy it from?

It may come with them, the person is going to take a pic of it for me, even if it doesn't come with them, I can make my own holders or design some that are a little lower than the stock ones

I am also workin on seeing if I can modify the stock(non-89) triple tree clamp to work with bolt on clipons

Quote from: coll0412I am also workin on seeing if I can modify the stock(non-89) triple tree clamp to work with bolt on clipons

Eh, you could, but you'd still have the handlebar mounts sticking up from the top plate. Not too pretty, if you ask me. The '89 just looks a lot cleaner.

Yeah I am going to see if you can mill them down to remove them...I have complete access to a machine shop so if I can modify $20 part that would be great

I really need to get certified for our machine shop, don't I? :lol:

Guess who got bored??

(http://www.tc.umn.edu/~coll0412/bike/tripletree.jpg)

(http://www.tc.umn.edu/~coll0412/bike/tripletree2.jpg)

(http://www.tc.umn.edu/~coll0412/bike/tripletree3.jpg)

(http://www.tc.umn.edu/~coll0412/bike/tripletree4.jpg)


Yeah it would take one run on the CNC machine, with a couple change of bits but not crazy, then the tapping would be second, followed by the chamfer type thing for the keys(this part will be spendy)

THESE ARE BASED OF GUESSES OF THE DIMENSIONS BASED ON MY TRIPLE TREE, THEY ARE PROBABLY WRONG, STILL NEED CORRECT DIMESIONS

Yeah, likewise. That's not a bad job. That's what I was going to do as well. I've got an old one lying around my garage I was going to dimension off of. Not a bad job, though. We's also have to thread those bolt holes, and probably taper that slot where the key is up more. It isn't as deep. Not bad though.

I would have done it sooner, but I haven't been home to get my part ;)

Also, you might want to round the edges a bit more. I think they are a bit smoother. :dunno: Not sure exactly though.

Suggestion.... Change the angle slightly so the controls will clear the newer style bodywork... That would probably open the door to a few more orders when you make your first run... Maybe save you from any trademark troubles...

beep beep

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/fettcols/newbars4.jpg)

That's a good idea, fett. Moving the bars out a few degrees would clear up that issue and give you a bit more leverage on the bars.

Alpha, for what it is worth, I think this is an excellent idea. Depending on price, safety, and ease of installation - I would be interested in some of they ever become a reality. They would have to be under $100 and easy enough to install, bearing in mind I am not the most mechanical person on the planet. And they would have to be strong enough to support a certain amount of weight - say a 200lbs guy leaning into them. (I'm not 200lbs but its good to shoot over than under..haha).

This would be a good experience for you and a great mod for us GS'ers  :thumb:

i'd pay one billllion dollars for it

(http://home.comcast.net/~pulseflatline/images/mini-me.jpg)

Alright, I am going to need some dimensions. I don't think I'll be able to get my hands on one to dimension it myself sadly. So if anyone can get me the dimensions for the clamps and the top plate it would be awesome.

coll0412's top clamp looks pretty accurate, but we'd have to see with the dimensions. So if someone could get those to me, or PM me for details I'd appreciate it. I'd also like to know if the clamps are the same (meaning you can use them on either side). If they aren't, I might design around it so that they can be used on either side, cutting manufacturing costs.

Depending on who I can get to work the CNC machine, or if coll0412 does it, a complete and total guess would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $75. This might go up or down considerably later on.

do you need a set of 89 clip ons/topplate  for mock up? i felt the stock 89 setup was alittle narrow for my tastes, and the race clip ons ive got set too low and would like to sit back up again.  i might be willing to trade my stockers for a reworked setup and possibly sell my Aftermarket 37mm clipons

Yeah. It'd be nice to have the '89 top plate, but this project is going to take me MONTHS at least because I'm trying to fit this in between all the classes and homework I've got to deal with. I've got a top plate from a '92 I can lend you so you can fit some regular bars (or get some clubmans or whatnot) until I can get the '89 back to you.

For what it's worth the '93 with the clip-on risers are left & right handed.

If these clip-ons will fit on a '93 & cost to send down under, I would be interested.

:cheers:

i have a newer year top plate but no bars to put on it.

I'll be getting some SM2 bars for Christmas this year (my dad bought them off eBay). I can send you my stock bars in exchange for the '89 stuff? That will give me time to find a machinist, too.

Yeah, if I could get some of the critical dimensions, I can use my triple tree clamp as a base model, then add teh addition for the clip on mounts, really what I need is the dimensions of clip on mounts and there angles or something, cuz it should be the same basic design as the 90+ version.

Quote from: coll0412Yeah, if I could get some of the critical dimensions, I can use my triple tree clamp as a base model, then add teh addition for the clip on mounts, really what I need is the dimensions of clip on mounts and there angles or something, cuz it should be the same basic design as the 90+ version.

Yeah, I'd think that too. That's pretty much all I needed, too.

i dont mind ponying up my whole 89 setup for the project, stock bars for temp replacement is cool with me too.   what deal can we work out for a the revamped set?

I'm sure that, if I actually complete this project, we can work you out a discounted deal. Like I said, not sure on how much they will cost normally, but you could get something off for allowing us to do it.

Do you think we shoul design it so that it will clear the '01+ bodywork?

And remember, you'd pony up your '89 setup for a loooong time. Months, man, well, depending on how much free time I'll have.

Or at least pony it up for enough time for me to make a mold...

Holy crap that's a good idea. Just make a mold and fill it with some ABS plastic or something.

I'm interested. Actually you could make a stylish mold for ABS clip ons. Also european clip ons seem to be taller, i have some pics around.

That, or pw less...that'd have to give you at least 2 hrs a day worth of freetime to day dream about this mechanical stuff.

Props to blueknyt.

I'll pitch for some bars if you need to go buy some to help this process along.  I like my dirtbike bars and all, just want some clipons...

It would only take an hour or two to take measuments and not take very long to model the part. It is a pretty basic design. I have SolidWorks and access to Catia. I do not have a need for the complete top clamp but need some 41mm clip-on knuckles. If I can help, let me know.

I like the design, but that would cost extra money. This is probably going to end up being fairly costly no matter what. As for the higher/lower thing, the bars already touch the tank on the '01+ models, I think that putting the bars lower might cause them to physically hit the tank at full lock, possibly not even allowing full lock.

As for the steering damper thing, again, I'm not sure if I can do that. I'm not experienced enough to design something outright and have it be good to go on the first time. Nor do I have the funds to test different models.

Yeah The cost ot put the cuts in would be pretty small, the only problem is that those cutouts would trap water.

I think the angle the bars are at and the height compared to the stock setup will be different. I think the bars will have a larger inside angle between them and the bars will sit like at the same hight as the top of the triple tree clamp.

here's everything I did... the top is the one you designed, the bottom is my design. on the left you see the add ons and cut outs in red, on the left is what it would look like. I'm getting that you guys aren't really into this idea but I would defanatly pay alittle extra for this version of what your doing. I donno if anyone easle would be into it though. would you be interested in making something like what I designed if there were say 20 or so orders?

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/gimmeaname1234/tripplecompair.jpg)

custom look is cool but...also make sure it physically work witht he bike. make sure everthing is flush and nothing look out of plce, etc...

hey alpha, you should definitely make it so it works with the +01 models  :thumb:

Quotethink the angle the bars are at and the height compared to the stock setup will be different. I think the bars will have a larger inside angle between them and the bars will sit like at the same hight as the top of the triple tree clamp.

that's exactly what I'm talking about. a little less pull back and the same hight as the tripple. in this quick and rough diagram I made, the first one is what I'm thinking of, and the second one is somthing like what the stock 89 set up is. I much rather have the first one.

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/gimmeaname1234/tripplehightcompair.jpg)

i dont have a problem going without for 6months IF have have something to put in place.  send me the bars and ill repace my 89 stuff into the box and ship it back, Deal?

I was just looking aroud and found this. this is a gs500 apparently. probably a different front end, but its got that custom billet front end look going on. this is the kinda thing I'm talking about

(http://www.bikepower.net/gs500e-power/pictures/tuning6/images/tuning85.jpg)

Quote from: budget speed demonI was just looking aroud and found this. this is a gs500 apparently. probably a different front end, but its got that custom billet front end look going on. this is the kinda thing I'm talking about

That's Octanes Vortex equipped Kat front end wearing Track demon ...
Cool.
Srinath.