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Main Area => Odds n Ends => Topic started by: Onlypastrana199 on December 08, 2005, 01:42:49 AM

Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: Onlypastrana199 on December 08, 2005, 01:42:49 AM
So...my supervisor is a jerk and fires people for referring computers to him if we can't figure out something stupid. Then I had a horrible tech guy on the phone with me tell me that girls shouldn't work on computers. This is an HP Pavilion zx5000. So now im being stubborn and I have to figure out what is going on.

So heres what it does.  When you try to start Microsoft Windows XP, the computer may appear to stop responding (hang) with an empty, black screen immediately after the POST is complete and before the Windows XP logo typically appears on the screen. If you hit F1 (does not go to BIOS), or if you manually select the harddrive by hitting esc, it boots up normally.

Things I have already checked:

No viruses, I did a complete reinstall and put in a new harddrive. Checked for MBR viruses nothing found.
Checked boot order, it doesn't matter the order, it doesn't automatically boot from CD if CDROM is first choice, nor does it boot from HD if that is first choice.
Checked Bios, flashed the original just in case, flashed a new version
I reset the MBR.

Nothing seems to be working...what am i missing?  :?
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: TheGoodGuy on December 08, 2005, 02:15:08 AM
first off.. its an HP!

okay now that i got that out of the way.

Okay if i am reading this right, if you let XP boot up without touchign anything it hangs. HOwever if you hit ESC and then select the hard drive it boots.

I would think its a hardware issue. Its not a MBR related issue. SInce you reinstalled and the problem still persists.

Going into safemode wont help, cause this is before windows has to start. I would say you got a driver conflict in XP or your hard drive is dying.

Those are two possible suggestions.. I doubt its a driver confict, if its hanging before XP logo comes up, which in that case its a hardware issue with the computer, could be the hard drive, or teh controller.
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: Church6360 on December 08, 2005, 02:17:40 AM
in my experiences building comps for friends and family bad ram can cause an awful lot of weird and difficult to diagnose problems. i'm not saying this is it, but just somthing to keep in mind.
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: TheGoodGuy on December 08, 2005, 02:18:58 AM
well if its bad ram, its possible but because it boots when she hits ESC i wouldnt think its a ram issue. Try downloading Knoppix and running it off the cd and see if there are any issues.
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: xtalman on December 08, 2005, 02:33:37 AM
What about the BIOS battery?  Maybe it's dead.
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: Jazzzzz on December 08, 2005, 03:34:06 AM
hard drive controller on your motherboard is on the way out, order a new board from HP and swap it
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: Onlypastrana199 on December 08, 2005, 08:29:09 AM
Ram was fine, did a couple intensive harddrive tests and it didnt pick up anything so I'm definitely leaning toward the motherboard.  :roll: Now I'm going to have to figure out what this joker who was an ass to me wants before he'll cover it in the warranty. I can't just order HP replacement parts either cause I only have Dell Certs.  :x  Totally getting the rest of my certs cause this is getting annoying.
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: flyingbeagle71 on December 08, 2005, 10:04:19 AM
Have you tried resetting the bios to factory specs?  Might work if something has been screwed up in them.  If you can't get to the bios screen, check for a reset jumper on the motherboard.  Not sure if HP's have one, don't really like working on them...
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: Phaedrus on December 08, 2005, 10:09:07 AM
Quote from: flyingbeagle71Have you tried resetting the bios to factory specs? .

+1

Especially if you have already verified that the drive is cabled and jumpered properly. If you checked, check again  :P

And when you did the clean install, I am assuming you made sure you installed XP onto an active partition on the disk.  :thumb:
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: flyingbeagle71 on December 08, 2005, 10:22:10 AM
Quote from: PhaedrusAnd when you did the clean install, I am assuming you made sure you installed XP onto an active partition on the disk.

:thumb: Good one Phaedrus, I did this the other day while setting up a machine for the kids.
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: JetSwing on December 08, 2005, 10:30:17 AM
you would get a "NTLDR is missing" message
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: Phaedrus on December 08, 2005, 10:39:40 AM
Have you tried putting that HD in ANOTHER system and seeing if it boots?

Pastrami, check this:

http://www.compphix.com/xpbootprocess.html

It explains the Windows XP boot process. I think your problem is BEFORE Windows takes over the startup process. XP will work just fine if you manually choose it.

"It begins when the computer performs the POST (power-on self test), followed by the POST for each adapter card that has a BIOS, for example, your video card. The BIOS then reads the MBR (Master Boot Record) which is in the first sector of the first hard disk and transfers control to the code in the MBR which is created by the XP Setup."

I think your problem is likely hardware, since your XP installation is fine. If you are able to use and access the BIOS and the BIOS recognizes the drive, thats good! But the BIOS isn't reading the MBR for one reason or another.
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: Onlypastrana199 on December 08, 2005, 11:28:02 AM
Sent this POS back to the a$$hole in Minnesota for warranty repair. Motherboard is dead, i dont even get a self test beep. I dont wanna deal with it, its got a warranty and its clearly a hardware issue.
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: Phaedrus on December 08, 2005, 11:30:54 AM
How did it go from being able to load windows manually to not even booting? You sure fixed it pretty well  :P

I'm just picking.  :kiss: don't let it get the best of you :)
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: ajgs500 on December 08, 2005, 11:31:47 AM
Thank God you sent that POS back.  I was really starting to think that it was going to drive you insane!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: Phaedrus on December 08, 2005, 11:32:50 AM
Nice sig AJ  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: Onlypastrana199 on December 08, 2005, 11:35:18 AM
Quote from: PhaedrusHow did it go from being able to load windows manually to not even booting? You sure fixed it pretty well  :P

I'm just picking.  :kiss: don't let it get the best of you :)


It still boots manually, I called HP support for a second opinion and they said it was most likely the mobo. The harddrive does boot on another system. I never got a self test beep on it. I just got sick of it so I just sent it back..I worked on it way too long.
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: JetSwing on December 08, 2005, 11:39:39 AM
keep the pos and send a real pc please
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: ajgs500 on December 08, 2005, 11:54:30 AM
Thank you, Phae!!!
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: Badger on December 08, 2005, 10:25:18 PM
Hrm...a little late, but in case it's still bothering you:

It's likely a hardware problem with the optical drive.  It's going to try to boot from that first, unless you manually tell it to boot from the hard drive.  It's probably running into some trouble when it pokes the controller...or (although I assume you checked) there's a bad disk in the drive (i.e., it's trying to boot from a disk that's not really bootable).

Then again...I'm a software guy, not a hardware guy.  :dunno:
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: Jazzzzz on December 08, 2005, 10:30:29 PM
Quote from: BadgerHrm...a little late, but in case it's still bothering you:

It's likely a hardware problem with the optical drive.  It's going to try to boot from that first, unless you manually tell it to boot from the hard drive.  It's probably running into some trouble when it pokes the controller...or (although I assume you checked) there's a bad disk in the drive (i.e., it's trying to boot from a disk that's not really bootable).

Then again...I'm a software guy, not a hardware guy.  :dunno:

trust me, it's the disk controller on the motherboard -- it's a common issue with pavilions and a few other models of HP/Compaq PCs
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: TheGoodGuy on December 08, 2005, 11:23:49 PM
so i dont understand this..

dell certs??

when the f%$k did you need a certification from DELL to work on a machine. Bah.. If you can work on one, you can work ona nother..

<--- Ex Sr. Network System Admin @ Stargate digital.
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: RVertigo on December 09, 2005, 01:01:42 PM
You have to be certified by the specific company to be a warranty dealer...  You pay them so their customers can pay you.
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: Onlypastrana199 on December 09, 2005, 01:12:56 PM
Yale has a contract with Dell, all of the computing support supervisors for their queues have to have their Dell certs because a majority of the students here have Dells. That way, we can order Dell warranty parts (we order alot of them) without having to deal with tech support, because by having our certs, we technically are Dell Tech Support. Its nice cause I get Dell employee discounts and can track and order my stuff without answering a bunch of stupid questions like..is the computer on? All of our public access cluster computers are IBM though  :dunno:
Title: Desperation At Work...stupid comp
Post by: Phaedrus on December 09, 2005, 01:55:57 PM
Quote from: Onlypastrana199Yale has a contract with Dell, all of the computing support supervisors for their queues have to have their Dell certs because a majority of the students here have Dells. That way, we can order Dell warranty parts (we order alot of them) without having to deal with tech support, because by having our certs, we technically are Dell Tech Support. Its nice cause I get Dell employee discounts and can track and order my stuff without answering a bunch of stupid questions like..is the computer on? All of our public access cluster computers are IBM though  :dunno:

I don't have a Dell cert, or any other vendor specific certs. But I do have my A+. I don't have to deal with Dell's crap either; I work for the state and we're on state contract. I call them up and say "A power supply in one of our GX270's went. I need another". They ship it out and we have it the next day. I return the old on in the box the new one come in, and thats it.  :P Their "is the computer on?" crap is annoying  :thumb:
Title: Yea
Post by: The Buddha on December 09, 2005, 10:25:05 PM
Yea I'd suggest you get a real operating system ... OK OK ... most of XP is OK, they did steal much of it from Unix ... like TCP/IP stack etc ... but still its windoze ...
OH yea its windoze ... if you haven't rebooted in the last hour you're screwed ... Oh ... rebooting is the problem ... you probably need to reboot for that ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Title: Re: Yea
Post by: Badger on December 10, 2005, 08:24:34 AM
Quote from: seshadri_srinathYea I'd suggest you get a real operating system ... OK OK ... most of XP is OK, they did steal much of it from Unix ... like TCP/IP stack etc ...
I suppose ignorance really is bliss.  :roll:

It's probably pointless to open a discussion about the fundimental differences in the kernel, driver abstraction, virtual memory management, i/o processing, thread scheduling, security, resource managment, executable format, process management, window managmenet, graphics processing, or any of the other bits that are almost entirely unlike UNIX.  Or that tcp/ip is a specification, and thus logically all network stacks should work almost exactly the same way (otherwise, what would be the point of having a specification?)  

I'm not trying to open up the debate as to which is better, UNIX or Windows.  People have their preferences, and it's more of a religious debate than anything else...but it's just uninformed to think they are the same.  Almost nothing in Win32 works the same way that UNIX does.

Sorry...I'm being overly harsh, but I'm an OS internals guy (formerly a UNIX OS internals guy, so I do have basis for comparison).  Comments like this just rub me the wrong way.  Sort of like the guy I ran into the other day telling his coworkers: "Windows can only use 3GB of memory anyway...there's no sense in putting 4GB in the box."*  People who don't know what they are talking about shouldn't be responsible for giving advice to other people.  :nono:

* Obviously, this guy completely misunderstood the purpose of the /3GB switch