On the other forums I frequent I always guide new riders both to the gs500 as a first bike and to this forum. One new member came here under my suggestion and he had this to say (emphasis mine):
QuoteI'm very aware of your site and the GSTWINS forum, both influenced my decision (as did this forum) and both are extremely helpful... though the folks on that forum can be a bit rude.
Bringing up anything that's been brought up a few times before is apparently verboten, but long discussions of cooking oil and wine in the main section are just fine. Depends on who starts them, apparently.
Still, it is an excellent source. I'd just advise caution before attempting to contribute.
now, I dont want to single anyone person or persons out but as a whole, could we keep the snide remarks to a minimum? Yes, there is a search funtion but lets be a little more tactful about reminding people it exists please. Sure questions will be asked that have been asked a bunch of times...sure, some questions might sound simple to those of us that have been riding for a while (although there are no stupid questions!)...
lets remember, in the spirit of the holidays (christmas hating thread exepted), to be more understanding of new members and their questions. we were all there once.
AMEN TO THAT BROTHER !
It was me, I figured it out. My appologies. No offence intended, and I edited my post and sent a pm appologizing.
Interesting topic. I agree of course that we should treat everybody respectfully and not act like dicks just 'cause someone asks a question that's been asked before. I think we're all guilty of asking those types of questions at some point ;)
I also think the mods should be quicker on the trigger when it comes to moving things to odds and ends and the tard farm. There are some seriously stupid threads, not necessarily offensive or anything, just dumb. No "value added" so to speak. Many members' posts seem to consist entirely of smiley faces. That and some hand-slapping when people start filling an otherwise good thread with loads of stupid back and forths.
Even with those minor issues this remains a superb site.
jeff
Quote from: Jeff PI also think the mods should be quicker on the trigger when it comes to moving things to odds and ends and the tard farm.
Even with those minor issues this remains a superb site.
jeff
I agree and take some responsibility for the state of affairs as well. In my reply to him I said as much. I do my best (and I STILL cant find the cooking oil thread...) and will redouble my efforts-yes, double double...
To all the people who *cough* helpfully point to the 'Search' link...
Think of searches that would take hours of wading through postings to find the correct answer. Now, although asking again without searching adds another post to the heap, an answer will show up later that day while the guy (or gal) is being productive at work or something. Sometimes refining the search won't get you the post you're looking for if you haven't chosen the 'right' words.
So be easy on people... We're here to help, not chastise ;)
pablo, i really have problem with this subject. i totally agree with the general thought of "let's be nice to new comers". but let's not try to push the politically correctness to the edge either.
since when is it wrong to dig up old threads and post them as a response to a question? is that imply that you're not allow to discuss the subject??
you have to remember that he deleted his initial post...so the people posting comments about cooking oil and wine had no idea what the thread was about.
in this particular case, i just don't see the point in whining about it...
http://www.gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22853
That's the thread about cooking oil, wine, and vodka.
Quote from: TurkinaTo all the people who *cough* helpfully point to the 'Search' link...
Think of searches that would take hours of wading through postings to find the correct answer. Now, although asking again without searching adds another post to the heap, an answer will show up later that day while the guy (or gal) is being productive at work or something. Sometimes refining the search won't get you the post you're looking for if you haven't chosen the 'right' words.
So be easy on people... We're here to help, not chastise ;)
Just last week somebody posted about what they thought was an oil leak, turned out to probably just be the chain gunk issue. It took me a good 10 minutes to find
my own thread about the same problem from months ago.
I think what pablo's getting at is that some people, instead of spending a few minutes to track down those old threads, are instead just saying "use the search", which isn't necessarily very helpful or nice.
jeff
Quote from: Jeff PI think what pablo's getting at is that some people, instead of spending a few minutes to track down those old threads, are instead just saying "use the search", which isn't necessarily very helpful or nice.
i haven't seen anyone do that as of late...most of them at least find old thread that contain answers.
Oi,
Ok, well I dunno I think I have mentioned this before, but there is a lack of a "flame bait / postwhore" section. As well as an "off-topic" section. These seem to both be combined into one "odds and ends" section. I have seen all kinds of whackness posted here in the main section. One post from two days ago comes to mind rather quick. If it is not "General Motorcycle / General GS500" then it does not belong in this section. Please take any other discussions to the appropriate area. This area is where 99% of the people who are new get directed or end up.
Things such as those show a disrespect for the people who take time out of their day, and their pocket to run this site, not to mention the community as a whole.
just my two cents on this matter.
I still think a wiki would help for documentation.
jomei
I don't think Pablo is saying that it's a bad thing to tell people to search, you just need to be more polite about it. Some people just reply to a question by saying "search" and very little else, or are otherwise rude. as Turkina points out, it can be very difficult to find a post you're looking for with the search function. I know for a fact it's flawed, and will miss posts that contain the word you're searching for.
However, the search is usefull, and there is a helpful way to remind people to search. Some users give a search strategy (e.g., tell the noob to search fo "tires" with user "gsjack") or post a couple threads they found using the search. This is helpful, and it can point the user to a wealth of information that really doesn't need to be recreated in every thread. There's just no reason to haved a hundred threads on which type of oil in the best.
Quote from: JetSwingQuote from: Jeff PI think what pablo's getting at is that some people, instead of spending a few minutes to track down those old threads, are instead just saying "use the search", which isn't necessarily very helpful or nice.
i haven't seen anyone do that as of late...most of them at least find old thread that contain answers.
You mean an old thread with old answers? ;)
The problem with old threads is that they do not always have the most current information, and a lot of the people that contributed to them are not around now. Digging up a new thread - or starting a new one - allow the CURRENT people to add their CURRENT input :thumb:
Might as well dig up old posts or create new threads, since no one is OBVIOUSLY interested in helping me with the FAQ :nana:
But that is besides the point.
I think:
1) Pablo (and the other moderator's especially) need to stop twiddling their thumbs and actually "MODERATE". The point of a moderator is to keep things going smoothly. Keep the junk out, the good stuff in. Encourage discussions and keep people from killing each other. As it is now,
GStwin.com does NOT have strong leadership or organization. It is good to have such a free open forum, but complete chaos is something different ;)
2) This site is awesome and I hope it always stays that way. I always try and be nice to new comers because when I first come here, I lurked for a while because I didn't like the atmosphere - and that was before it got "too bad". If I were a new commer now, I don't think I'd like it here very much at all.
Quote from: jomeiI still think a wiki would help for documentation.
jomei
There is a WIKI:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_GS500EThere is also a GS500 FAQ:
http://gstwin.variders.com :thumb:
Quote from: Phaedrus1) Pablo (and the other moderator's especially) need to stop twiddling their thumbs and actually "MODERATE". .... As it is now, GStwin.com does NOT have strong leadership or organization. It is good to have such a free open forum, but complete chaos is something different ;)
It's not complete chaos, not yet. But I agree that moderation should probably be a bit stronger. Up until recently (as far as I can tell, I'm a relative new-comer) the forum has been pretty self moderating. I'd like to see the forum return to being self moderating, but it might be time to lay down just a little smack.
phaedrus, i would have to agree with you on the fact the moderators need to a better job of keeping taps on the forum.
the "engine oil" turned "wine and voka" thread was overlooked by the modoerators after 4 pages of nonsense and it's still in the general forum!
most of the problems faced by the new comers can be defused by the moderators before it escalates.
also it's better to find a information in one place than searching through the forum.
phaedrus, keep up the good work with the faq. at least you're trying.
I said this before, and I'll say it again; I think there need to be more forums rather than just "General" and "O&E" for us to start general threads and such. If we had more division, noobs could find answers a lot easier, and we could reduce the number of obscure topics that are "slightly general" and "slightly o&e". We should have a Motorcycle (Non GS) related forum and a Non-Motorcycle Chat forum. We could even divide up O&E. If we divided up the GS section into Forums like "Tires", "Engine and Carbs", and other more specific forums, each their own seperate forum, the search function could be a lot more use. You could search for a specific thing you wanted to know about in the specific forum about that topic.
For example, if someone wanted some info on Pirelli Sport Demons, they would have to wade through SOOO many posts if they just used the search function in the General Section. If we had a Tires forum, the information would already be concentrated in that area and would be a lot easier to find.
this is not just about telling someone to search. its the tenor of telling them that, as well as how we treat each other-regulars, old timers, new members combined.
I fully take responsibility for having missed the "oil" thread, and apologize on behalf of myself and the other moderators. Its now been moved. The site owner, John, has a policy about moderating and wants the moderators to be nearly invisible. We HAVE been taking care of things, just not as much visible stuff as we maybe should. Its a constant struggle to keep on top of things and keep hands off to a certain extent-we do our best...
Also want to make it clear that it doesnt appear that the author of the [cooking] oil thread is the guy that made that comment to me, but he simply was using that thread as a clear example of how a new member was treated in this case...
Phaedrus-thanks for stepping up and running with updating the existing FAQ forum here. it would be a great help. if you find posts or threads you think belong there let me or another forum member know and we'll move it there.
JetSwing-definitely nothing wrong with bringing up old posts or giving new riders/new members some insight or direction. Its not the "go search" that bothers me its the unwelcoming nature of how we say that and how we treat new riders/members in general. Even I get tired of hearing soemone ask about using a 150/60 rear tire [random example] but I try to be nice about it...ya know...
I can feel the love already. . .
http://www.gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22994
:kiss:
Phaedrus:
That hardly counts as a place to store gs500 documentation. ;) Reference material relitive to the definition of gs500... ok..
Yep, there's new info. And it's best to add it to the threads with the old info. That way, all of the info is in one or at most a few places, and is easily looked through. If we have 100+ threads on the same subject, then when you try to look through the information, you find 100+ threads. So you don't bother to read them, and you start the 101st thread, and the information you get is only as good as who is up at that hour.
I should indeed have moved the oil thread to O&E, so sorry, I'll try to be more on top of that when I do check in. But as said, the original post was already gone when I first looked, so there wasn't much more to talk about.
I was pretty pissed when the reply to my first post was one word, "search", posted by ajgs500. A gem indeed.
Also, I've noticed Roadstergal seems to put more effort into elaborate sarcastic "search" posts than it takes to answer the OP's question.
Actually, my search posts usually take the form:
Search.
*Link.*
'Twould be faster to search and find the answer than type out the question and wait. And I usually find some useful tangential information when I do.
I just want to agree with what a few other have pointed out:
The search function is not the best. It takes time to figure out how to get it do find what you want. Something newbies or first time posters to this site have little expierence with as well.
Moderators need to moderate. Not saying the moderators here are no good :kiss: . It's just that there will always be things that need taken care of and someone has to do it.
There really needs to be one or two new forums, say "General" structured as a GS500 area. Another forum for other "Bike" realted posts besides the GS, a forum for engines or tuning, and "Tard Farm" for well, the tards :P, etc. I am a believer that as the membership grows the site needs to grow as well. I still remember joining a site that had like 20 or 25 members and like 4 forums. Five years later it now has over 40,000 registered members and like 16 different forums. That is alot of forums but it is very organized and there is really no question where something should be posted. OTOH there are sites with lots of users and forums that are hell to navigate and sort out the what belongs where.
Thats all I guess :cheers:
Quote from: rtcpenguinI was pretty pissed when the reply to my first post was one word, "search", posted by ajgs500. A gem indeed.
Also, I've noticed Roadstergal seems to put more effort into elaborate sarcastic "search" posts than it takes to answer the OP's question.
Hey I was being nice. You should see some of my other posts. Oh and I probably didnt know the answer, either!! :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
hitler was a great orginazer, I'd just like to point that out, he was also ghey, I'd like to point that out too,.
Quote from: davipuhitler was a great orginazer, I'd just like to point that out, he was also ghey, I'd like to point that out too,.
Hitler was ghey??? I thought he got syphillis from a prostitue!!! Well the things you learn on gstwins!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: davipudavipu was a great orginazer, I'd just like to point that out, he was also ghey, I'd like to point that out too,.
FIXED.
now knock that shaZam! off.
OWNED., oh wait :nana:
OK, OK, yeah, 1001 threads about oil can be a little annoying but we need to accept that the board is a living dynamic thing and sometime it takes it own direction.
The only realy stupid question is the one that someone is too embarrased to ask, especially from the newbies. A little tolerance won't ruin our lives.
Group hug, group hug, cough! well perhaps that's taking things a little far but you get the picture.
Well said (er, written) Cal. :thumb:
Quote from: rtcpenguinAlso, I've noticed Roadstergal seems to put more effort into elaborate sarcastic "search" posts than it takes to answer the OP's question.
For one of the mods, she does seem to be, um, "over represented" in the insipid off topic threads.
Quote from: ajgs500Hey I was being nice. You should see some of my other posts. Oh and I probably didnt know the answer, either!! :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
I hope this thread has brought it to your attention that in such cases, you should probably just not reply at all.
jeff
Quote from: pantabloOn the other forums I frequent I always guide new riders both to the gs500 as a first bike and to this forum. One new member came here under my suggestion and he had this to say (emphasis mine):
QuoteI'm very aware of your site and the GSTWINS forum, both influenced my decision (as did this forum) and both are extremely helpful... though the folks on that forum can be a bit rude.
now, I dont want to single anyone person or persons out but as a whole, could we keep the snide remarks to a minimum? Yes, there is a search funtion but lets be a little more tactful about reminding people it exists please.
I completely agree with your quoted mystery poster. I made a post a few weeks ago complaining when I was insulted on a different thread after trying to help someone. Were I a moderator here, I would be embarrassed for anyone to
read
some of the replies I got.
Nowhere is perfect... but I think its ridiculous to let some of the behavior here slide only because someone's post count has reached some arbitrary number. Thanks for the OP, Pantablo... apparently it takes a moderator to post something like that and not get trolled or flamed to death. Pity.
It would be nice if we could limit the amount of posts some of the members can make per day. there are so many irrelevant topics and replies.
I really think it would help if post counts were simply turned off. It would remove certain peoples motivation to keep making posts for the sheer purpose of making posts.
I will post as much as I freakin' want and say what ever I want. Until they either kick me off this bored or they eliminate my first ammendment rights. :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana:
The Supreme Court of the United States has soundly rejected prior restraint.
But it is, after all, a motorcycle forum. So what can you say about motorcycles that will get you kicked off the forum? Nothing, really.
uh, back to Constitution class. The 1st amendment only prevents the government from restricting your speech. This board can do whatever the hell it wants. Pablo, Kerry, anybody want to take ajgs500 up on it?
jeff
Quote from: aaronstjI really think it would help if post counts were simply turned off. It would remove certain peoples motivation to keep making posts for the sheer purpose of making posts.
...and wasting bandwith that John has to pay for. I do not even pay attention to post counts anyway. :dunno:
Well, we could add the FREAKIN' @$$hole forum for ajgs500 & the like.
So if you want to all be commies that is fine with me!!!
Quote from: ajgs500I will post as much as I freakin' want and say what ever I want. Until they either kick me off this bored or they eliminate my first ammendment rights. :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana:
Um, I have a feeling that this site is not a democracy :)
Oh that's my mistake! Asking people to behave like adults and treat each other with respect, particularly when using a message board operated and paid for by someone else, makes me a commie. :roll: Grow up dude.
jeff
Ok so will go start my own forum and only gays and lesbians will be allowed to join. And if you have a different opinion of idea you will be kicked off. Because anyone with a different idea or opinion is def. the devil. Oh no one can have a sense of humor either.
I feel like a lot of people come here to fool around and see people here as friends....its like hanging out when you can't ride your gs...if people actually went to the chat room and joked around and what not there, it wouldnt eat up bandwidth...
Quote from: ajgs500Ok so will go start my own forum and only gays and lesbians will be allowed to join. And if you have a different opinion of idea you will be kicked off. Because anyone with a different idea or opinion is def. the devil. Oh no one can have a sense of humor either.
Go for it...good luck.
It is actually very common for the government to restrict speach. Commerical speach is restricted all the time. Even political speach is limited in many ways. Especially by local government. Try handing out a political flyer within 20 feet of a voting booth. Guess what, your speech is going to be restricted in a hurry. But limiting political speech is very difficult. Any such statute/ordinance has to very narrowly drawn and use the least restrictive means. It must also not favor any one political group. But just because we have first amendment rights, doesn't mean we have the freedom to say whatever we want.
Plus, like Cobalt said. This board is NOT a democracy. The mods have every right to censor you, cut your posting abilities, or ban you from the site.
If you do stuff that intentionally infuriates people just to have a reaction, the mods can, and just might, ban you from the site.
Quote from: ajgs500Ok so will go start my own forum and only gays and lesbians will be allowed to join. And if you have a different opinion of idea you will be kicked off. Because anyone with a different idea or opinion is def. the devil. Oh no one can have a sense of humor either.
Please do. Send us a postcard.
Also, no one really cares that you're a lesbian (ok, Ed in AZ is probably pretty upset). But for the majority of us, it's not even an issue. We probably wouldn't even remember if you didn't stop bringing it up. The reason you get so much flak has nothing to do with your orientation. It's because you're abrasive, hyper-sensitive, and fairly obnoxious at times. You'll notice hardly anyone gives Onlypastrana a hard time (except when she's jumping to you're defense).
(This probably belongs in a PM, but I think other people probably feel the same way. If not, I apologive for speaking for you and cluttering up this thread.)
I totally agree with Aaron. He's right. No one really cares that you're a lesbian. I've brought up the issue that you're overly agressive and a seeming attention starved juvenile brat in numerous threads beforehand.
Now look... this thread is going down the drain. It's turned into what Pablo is telling us to stop doing.
That being said, has anyone tried using the GS powerplant in something else? My friends and I are thinking about putting it into a go kart.
I am sure that I do come off that way. But what I have learned that communicating via internet takes so much away from the art of communication. When I reply you cant hear my voice inflection as if I was saying it. You also only experience my personality through the small bit I post which is not an accurate reflection of my total personality. Ask anyone who "knows" me. Yes they would say I am abrasive and I can be very obnoxious but ehhhhhh???
Apparently joking is prohibited.
FOR PETES...
Look..
YOU ALL AGREED TO THE EULA WHEN YOU JOINED.
This is a PRIVATELY RUN BOARD, NOT COMMUNITY FUNDED, YOU DON'T PAY A DIME.
Just PLAY NICE so when new people come, they are not shut out.
Please keep whatever political matters, ghey rights etc... anything that could possibly offend someone to yourself.
We do not care who is ghey, who is straight who likes bush who hates bush who likes wine and cheese or who hates asian people.
ALL I PERSONALLY CARE ABOUT IS THAT YOU PEOPLE LIKE THE GS / MOTORCYCLING.
THATS ALL.
just my two cents on THAT matter...
One of the most respected members of this board has a child that is mentally handicaped.
So quit with that one, 'kay?
Quote from: AlphaFire X5I said this before, and I'll say it again; I think there need to be more forums rather than just "General" and "O&E" for us to start general threads and such. If we had more division, noobs could find answers a lot easier, and we could reduce the number of obscure topics that are "slightly general" and "slightly o&e". We should have a Motorcycle (Non GS) related forum and a Non-Motorcycle Chat forum. We could even divide up O&E. If we divided up the GS section into Forums like "Tires", "Engine and Carbs", and other more specific forums, each their own seperate forum, the search function could be a lot more use. You could search for a specific thing you wanted to know about in the specific forum about that topic.
For example, if someone wanted some info on Pirelli Sport Demons, they would have to wade through SOOO many posts if they just used the search function in the General Section. If we had a Tires forum, the information would already be concentrated in that area and would be a lot easier to find.
I second this idea for creating new groups. General should be the generic threads that people can bullshit about and leave the more technical aspects to the other forums. Start with a few new groups first and if the groups are very active then see if you can split those up. You will then end up with nicely shaped forums with active participation (i.e. no 1 post/month groups)
As for the rude search comments, I'm used to it but that's because I've been in far worse forums where RTFM is the standard response. But it could be toned down a little because it is a little shocking :x when someone hasn't been on the internet long enough.
Quote from: ajgs500I am sure that I do come off that way. But what I have learned that communicating via internet takes so much away from the art of communication. When I reply you cant hear my voice inflection as if I was saying it. You also only experience my personality through the small bit I post which is not an accurate reflection of my total personality. Ask anyone who "knows" me. Yes they would say I am abrasive and I can be very obnoxious but ehhhhhh???
knowing that, try self censoring or at least trying to be a little more tactful. Assume you're addressing a room full of strangers, because you are.
Ask meaningful questions, give meaningful answers, banter playfully with each other or STFU. All of you.
Quote from: pantabloAsk meaningful questions, give meaningful answers, banter playfully with each other or STFU. All of you.
Now THAT is what moderator's are supposed to do :thumb: I know I am going to make a more conscious effort to have more meaningful posts that are also a bit more polite.
Make sure you check out the "long haired hippy people, need not apply..." and "vancouver is full of asian people" threads too. Heh.
Quote from: Phaedrus
Make sure you check out the "long haired hippy people, need not apply..." and "vancouver is full of asian people" threads too. Heh.
thanks, I will. thats the thing about moderating...since John likes this to be hands-off, behind the scenes, self moderating forum its important for everyone to make an effort to inform any of the moderators about something you see that is offensive or whatever. We're not perfect and can't always catch the threads that go south. When we do, we'll deal with it.
To the Tard Farm. All of ya! :nono:
good grief.
just to agree with some of the things said.
In my line of work i wirte programs for machines. These program names all need to be in caps (some weird reason,don't ask) so i keep my caps lock on most of the time.
My first post i asked some gs related question(with caps on) . I got about 10 replies telling me where the caps lock key is and all types of crap. I know there would be quite a few 20/10 males here. (20yr old body,10yr old brain) but really its not that hard to show a little respect. We don't have any oil so we aint the enemy !
But there is it seems a lot of serious contributors out there who are a great help. Their time and help i greatly appreciate.
Funny thing is, we have a small thread going for australian riders and we don't get all this abussive stupid crap in messages.
Know what sucks? When you have a semi-common question, but don't see any threads on the first few pages. Maybe you make a post, maybe you search to begin with.
You see a few threads which look hopeful, but nearly all of your Search Results are just threads in which the person is told to run a search to find their answers. The true answer to your question is probably in a thread titled "OMG This sucks!" buried on page 3 of your search results. Ironic, no?
Yes, sometimes people ask repeated questions, or ask simple stuff that could have been found with a search. And whenever someone replies with just "run a search", they have now doomed that thread to be a redundant, unhelpful thread for any future Searchers (pushing the helpful thread even further away).
I personally find that extremely rude. Reminds me a little of trying to make friends in a high school clique. Only the people who are already "in" are welcome. Anyone else is shunned.
Quote from: syphonYes, sometimes people ask repeated questions, or ask simple stuff that could have been found with a search. And whenever someone replies with just "run a search", they have now doomed that thread to be a redundant, unhelpful thread for any future Searchers (pushing the helpful thread even further away).
When I have time, I post a link along with an enjoinder to search. And then, instead of having a bazillion threads with incomplete information, the redundant ones point to a helpful one.
Quote from: syphonI personally find that extremely rude. Reminds me a little of trying to make friends in a high school clique. Only the people who are already "in" are welcome. Anyone else is shunned.
I tell anyone to search if the thread is out there whether they've been here longer than I have or just joined today.
Quote from: RoadstergalI tell anyone to search if the thread is out there whether they've been here longer than I have or just joined today.
I thought that was implied by:
Quote from: Roadstergal alsoThe question is not whether I've treated you rudely, but whether you've ever heard me treat anyone else better.
:P
btw: of late, you've been very cleverly
not answering people's redundant questions with repetitious answers. :thumb: