Hey now guys,
back when i took the MSF course, i had no trouble doing that box drill with the rebel bike that was issued to me. but now with the GS, i just can't to get the same technique down, it seems very chaoic and not in control. dose anybody has any tip and advice, should i try standing on the pegs when i do my U turns? thank you in advance
it's a silly question i know, but i rather ask here then drop it in a busy intersection.
You're kidding about standing on the pegs right....?
How long ago did you take the MSF course? Look where you want to go- eyes level with the horizon... steady hand on the throttle...and go.
hehe, don't stand on the pegs. Unless you plan on doing some squidly tricks or something :icon_razz:
I think you just need practice, and remember to keep it slow and in low gear.
honestly i have never done the box thing on my bike..... never seen the point honestly... why would you be doing the box in a busy intersection???? and if you are doing a U-turn im sure you will have more space then a car width....
Quote from: solarpulse on January 15, 2006, 03:01:53 PM
honestly i have never done the box thing on my bike..... never seen the point honestly... why would you be doing the box in a busy intersection???? and if you are doing a U-turn im sure you will have more space then a car width....
Not do it in an intersection, but it's good practice to be able to do it.
Standing on the pegs is usually advice given to noobs by dirtriders to help maintain slow-speed balance during tight manuevers. Theory is you use your body's higher weight to balance the bike and give allow you a more aggressive lean and use of more tire surface. Only vaguely applicable in the dirt, and stupid on the street...actually typically impossible considering the builds of most bikes.
First you have to understand that bikes do actually have a minimum turning radius. Trying to defeat said radius with break things. Now if you're trying a wider radius and are having trouble the best thing you can do is to practice and practice and practice. Just grab a couple of road cones, find an empty parking lot, and just do figure 8's around them over and over and try to make them progressively tighter. It's not something you'll be able to perfect instantly...or really even quickly.
Try shifting your weight off the seat to the outside of the turn while leaning the bike into the turn. Takes a little practice but it comes with time. Feathering the clutch helps.
To get into my shop, I would have to do full 180 turns with the steering at full lock on my TLR in the grass all while avoiding dog crap. You would be surprised how often you will need to turn sharply, like in a parking lot with a bunch of other bikes around. Left turns are usually easier since the throttle is not jammed up against the tank as with right turns.
I was never able to complete the box thing at the MSF course. Luckily the instructors didn't think this was TOO important, so they didn't grade to harshly on that skill.
Besides, I haven't encountered a situation that required that skill.
Remember to look where you want to go, if you look infront of the bike you'll make your turn too wide and might not be able to make it. Having said that, its MUCH harder to do a U-turn I find on my GS than it was on the little cruiser types they provided during the course, so don't worry about it, practice will make perfect, more or less :thumb:
Drag the rear brake and you will have much more control.
It's a technique they teach the cops that ride the big Harleys.
Tried is myself and it makes a big difference.
Check out Lee Park's Total Control (book- probably available at Barnes and Noble). It has some good drills on low and high speed skills- incuding the U-turn.
Standing on pegs will help you lean the bike over and make a tighter turn. Be careful, it takes practice as the bike will feel different. I would realy only recommend it as a training aid to get a feel for how the bike handles. If you start to loose it- remember to gas it.
Another good drill is to find a parking lot. Pick a point, like a drain and start doing circles around it. Follow the point with your head. Do it until you can make the turn without your eyes leaving the point. This will help you look through turns in general but as you do it, you will notice the turn radius tighten up.
Remember that by draging the rear brake (similiar with trail braking) that you still need to feather the clutch and keep on the gas. Using the rear brake will help the bike sit down and tighten the wheelbase. In fact, you can try this by going in a straight line- keep the gas on and slowly hit the rear brake- you'll feel the bike's nose drop. This is a more advanced move.
Quote from: Jared on January 15, 2006, 02:40:35 PM
You're kidding about standing on the pegs right....?
How long ago did you take the MSF course? Look where you want to go- eyes level with the horizon... steady hand on the throttle...and go.
hey if i was kidding i woudln't really be asking it now would I? and i took the MSF course maybe about a 6 months ago, but haven't riden because of bad weather. and do all that other stuff. maybe except the throttle stuff.
When I tooik the MSF course, they advised us to use the rear brake while performing our U-turn maneuvers, but they told us not to use the clutch...in fact, that they would take points off for using the clutch. Speed control on this was to be done entirely with throttle and rear brake. It works nicely on the 250cc Nighthawks we rode; haven't tried it yet on my GS500F.
1st gear was too choppy on the Nighthawk; had to go to 2nd. I think it may be doable in 1st on the GS.
Quote from: LeChatNoir on January 15, 2006, 11:34:06 PM
When I tooik the MSF course, they advised us to use the rear brake while performing our U-turn maneuvers, but they told us not to use the clutch...in fact, that they would take points off for using the clutch. Speed control on this was to be done entirely with throttle and rear brake. It works nicely on the 250cc Nighthawks we rode; haven't tried it yet on my GS500F.
1st gear was too choppy on the Nighthawk; had to go to 2nd. I think it may be doable in 1st on the GS.
I would use 2nd on GS as well, but it would be impossible w/o feathering the clutch.....and I though the right way to do slow speed manuvres was to have rpm's high, clutch slipping and breaking using only rear break...but I guess I am no pro.....
Well Z315 I was hoping you were kidding.
You see some people sometimes say things to be thought of as funny....They call that Humor.
Standing on the pegs takes away your ability to shift and use the rear brake...seemed like such a bad idea I thought you might be kidding.
Quote from: LeChatNoir on January 15, 2006, 11:34:06 PM
When I tooik the MSF course, they advised us to use the rear brake while performing our U-turn maneuvers, but they told us not to use the clutch...in fact, that they would take points off for using the clutch. Speed control on this was to be done entirely with throttle and rear brake. It works nicely on the 250cc Nighthawks we rode; haven't tried it yet on my GS500F.
1st gear was too choppy on the Nighthawk; had to go to 2nd. I think it may be doable in 1st on the GS.
When I took the MSF course, they told use to use the clutch...
No... They MADE us use the clutch in any low speed situation. It even says this in the users manual.
(yes I have read the manual)
(yes I am a dork) :thumb:
Yup, I can vouch for the MSF teaching us to give it a bunch of RPM's and use the clutch. They told us we shouldn't use the brake. But if we were going to, never use the front. (so I guess that means use the back one because my side brake is missing...)
Quote from: Jared on January 16, 2006, 04:21:05 PM
Well Z315 I was hoping you were kidding.
You see some people sometimes say things to be thought of as funny....They call that Humor.
Standing on the pegs takes away your ability to shift and use the rear brake...seemed like such a bad idea I thought you might be kidding.
Last I checked, I can still toe the rear brake while standing up on the pegs, and you shouldn't need to shift in the middle of a slow-speed maneuver like a U-turn anyway. You can get extra lean to make a tighter turn while standing, it's just an extreme variation of hanging your rear end off the side of the seat. It will throw your center of gravity forward a bit if you do not consciously keep your rear end over your feet -- the position of your legs while seated with feet on the pegs will cause you to push your rump forward a bit as you stand.
No, you shouldn't need to stand up to do a slow U-Turn, but if you feel more comfortable doing so I don't see any problem with it.
got some pratice today at the local college. pratice dose make things perfect, but i still can't do those hairpin U turns, and reading proficent motorcycling, it seems i'm going way to fast to cut that turn, and if i slow down below 3000 rpm, the bike starts to chock and feels like it's going to stall... hmmmm
hi yeah i have a gs500f and i also have the same trouble with the u-turns. i am fairly small build and about 5ft'7 and i just think the bike is a little heavy for me when making tight moves. for example i dropped it in the middle of london making a u-turn at rush hour traffic. ( how embarrasing)- i think the answer is to just be sensible where you make u-turns not in to smaller gap. but noooooooo dont stand on footpegs. cool cya
Standing on the pegs is helpful, but only if you need it to ballance the bike. You really shouldn't need it, but it might help to train that way till you get better. Also shifting you butt over will help too.
z315, "if i slow down below 3000 rpm, the bike starts to chock and feels like it's going to stall." Thats why you rev the engine up above 3k and use the clutch to only use some power; and thus go slower.
People tend to forget that a motorcycle uses a wet clutch. This means you have more wiggle room on letting the clutch slip. The gs needs to be revved up to get a good start out of first gear. Keep the rpm's up and let the clutch do all the work until you come out of the turn. But do practice- cause the last you thing you need or want is to dump the clutch with the rpms at 5,000 and the bike leaned over. But having a little extra in reserve will also help you pull the bike up if anything goes wrong.
Back to this whole standing on the pegs thing. I say practice riding around on your pegs. There are instances where you will need to get out of the saddle - especially if you are in an emergency situation and need to ride over something big. You should feel confortable standing on the pegs and controlling the bike... but I really wouldn't recommend riding around that way. It changes your center of gravity and it takes away several contact points between you and your bike that are vital in controlling the bike. What happens when you are making a U-turn and some guy pulls out to turn right. If you hit the brakes hard you are going to fight to stay on the bike and when the bike stops you have THAT much farther to go to get your foot down before you drop it.
AND, honestly, you DON"T NEED to stand on the pegs of the gs to make it manuever around. It really is a very easy bike to push around. Turning is more a matter of getting your weight to the outside of the turn. Practice getting your left butt cheek on the right side of the seat while making left hand turns. Practice looking through the turn. Practice feathering the clutch.
Practice practice practice
Quote from: z315 on January 16, 2006, 10:12:33 PM
got some pratice today at the local college. pratice dose make things perfect, but i still can't do those hairpin U turns, and reading proficent motorcycling, it seems i'm going way to fast to cut that turn, and if i slow down below 3000 rpm, the bike starts to chock and feels like it's going to stall... hmmmm
Good! Keep practicing. Now, this is where feathering the clutch in the friction zone helps smooth out the 'chockiness' of the engine (the chugging, or lugging, of the engine at low rpm's), and prevents overloading the engine such that it stalls. Think of it this way - you have two valves, the throttle valve and the clutch valve, the throttle valve controls how much power you
have and the clutch valve controls how much of that power you
use. Remember, without the clutch you would have no way to "disengage", or "feed in", that power.
Now, as for standing on the pegs, I would rather suggest that you stay seated and 'weigh, or weight, the outside peg'; still slide the cheek off to the outside, and dig that knee into the tank, that'll help put that weight on the outside peg.
We rode over 4x4's in class. You had to stand on the pegs or you would probably dump it from the jolt. I have stood on the pegs when hitting pot holes every day to/from work this week. (darn construction) When I don't it hurts and is unsettling. Plus it is probably the closest to off-roading it I will get.. might as well have fun. ;)
I am a lazy bastard so i didn't read through exactly every pose, But u-turns are a bit harder on out bikes cause they are heavier. I took the course on a cb150 and I didn't need all the box to do the two u-turns required in the box. That being said it feels as though the weight of the bike is going to flop over so you do lean it as far. It was said eailer but you have to more consiously shift you weight to the outside of the turn by shifting you but in that direction. It takes a lot of practice but in time you will get it. Sorry if this has been said 8 times before :laugh: :laugh:
I hope everyone is learning to use the clutch at slow speeds. For some, it may be easier with a smaller cc bike to do slow turns without it. BUT wait until you get on a larger cc bike, especially a 1 liter twin. Not using the clutch is asking for a drop. Now is the time to create good habits.
Practice :thumb:, first practice riding at walking pace or less. Use first gear, slip the clutch to keep revs up and use the rear brake. This goes against all "car" rules and conventions but it is the only way with a bike. When you are happy with your slow speed then start doing a few manouvers, figure of eight perhaps in a parking lot.
Doing the U turn at full lock or very near it is not a big deal once you get the speed-revs thing right. Do not look down at kerbs, roadmarkings or your front wheel. Look where you want to be. practice, practice and then practice. same as hill-starts and emergency stops, you may never have to do one but you need to know how.
Quote from: z315 on January 15, 2006, 02:24:44 PM
Hey now guys,
back when i took the MSF course, i had no trouble doing that box drill with the rebel bike that was issued to me. but now with the GS, i just can't to get the same technique down, it seems very chaoic and not in control. dose anybody has any tip and advice, should i try standing on the pegs when i do my U turns? thank you in advance
it's a silly question i know, but i rather ask here then drop it in a busy intersection.
Practice is what you need.
Find an empty parking lot and begin doing some slow speed figure eight turns. Just keep doing this until you feel comfortable. If you try this maybe once a week in your free time you will become more comfortable at low speed on your bike.
Even if you feel that you might not need to ever do a tight u-turn it is good to practice.