Ok, I know this is a bike site but there are a lot of fellow IT people here. I rarely have a problem that really stumps me, but this one has. I've only spent an hour on it but I am just about out of ideas.
The story: A friend has an old laptop running Windows 98. She aquired it for free and the previous owner is gone. She wants to use it to connect to a dial up Internet account to check email only. Sounds easy enough. She has a dialup Internet account on her home desktop computer and it works fine.
The problem: When the laptop dials out to the ISP, it functions as you would expect after the username/password combo is entered. The modem dials just fine. However, as it "Verifies Username and Password" but before you are fully connected, ANOTHER login prompt comes up wanting a username and password. The same exact information is added - but it will not verify the username/passwd and if you click cancel, it drops the connection.
What I've done:
-I tried dialing up to ANOTHER dialup account (mine, not hers) that I know has no issues. Same problem
-I uninstalled and reinstalled the TCP/IP protocol and Dialup adapter software in "Networking" in Control Panel. Didn't make any difference.
-I changed the primary network login protocols; Windows Logon, Client For Microsoft Networks, etc. No difference.
-Modem diagnostics show that modem is fine; Device Manager indicates no hardware issues.
Any suggestions? Ideas?
Tell them to get a new computer. :laugh:
Seriously, TCP/IP is IMO the mos irritating thing to get fixed if somethings wrong. Try the Windows phone dialer to call a regular phone... See if that works.
or pehaps set up another connection, using same ports etc, but done through software? :cheers:
Yeah, I did that. I deleted her "My connections" and re-created them - same thing.
Then I deleted them again and created a "My connection" using my ISP's dialup information..and still got the same thing.
Hmm. :dunno_white:
I vaguely remember that win 98 requires the user to log into the machine to properly initalize the TCP/IP stack, even if the machine doesn't reside on a network. So, you know that USERNAME/PASSWORD box you see when you first fire up the machine. You need to make sure you hit <enter> and not "CANCEL". I wonder if the second USERNAME/PASSWORD is an attempt to reload the stack after detecting that you're trying to setup the PPP connection.
I think you might be onto something. The former user was the only one with an account, the username was "daniel". I deleted the .pwl file for it and tried to create a new account using my friend's information. But it didn't work. So is there anything I might be forgetting? Probably something SOOOO STUPID too. :mad:
That shoud do it. But if I remember correctly, it doesn't delete the user, just the password. The next time you fire up the machine, hit <enter> for user daniel and blank for password. It should accept that and load the necessary tcp/ip components.
Yeah, the reason I deleted "daniel" was because we don't know who daniel is. Hehe. He is the previous user, I guess. And blank for a password did not work, so apparently he had one set. So I canceled out and then deleted the pwl file from a DOS prompt. It's been so long since I've worked with 98!!
Thanks for your help, I'll give it a shot again and post my results :thumb:
Just do what we do at work when anyone has an issues with 98. Backup whatever you need, wipe the drive clean and install XP. But i guess you dont want to do that if its that old of a machine.
Yeah this is a cheap old laptop, she just doesn't want it to go to waste. It has a penium and 48mb of memory :icon_razz: XP would kill it. But there is no reason it can't be used to check email via dialup.
I tried what you said sys, and I even tried the Windows 98 troubleshooter tool in help (for DUN). It even had my reload winsock.dll from the Windows 98 CD via SFC. That didn't even work.
I've spent enough time on it, I don't like to spend more time on things than they are even worth. I might suggest to her that if she is hell bent on it, to format the drive and do a clean install of Win98 because something is definitely not right. I've been a professional and certified computer tech for 3 years, and working on computers as a hobby for 8 years. I'm no noob, and I can't seem to figure it out. :mad:
The only thing I could speculate is that the previous owner had some hidden, third party security software installed or something. Doesn't know up in win.ini or any of the other system files (via msconfig) or in Control Panel, though. :dunno_white:
Quote from: Phaedrus on January 22, 2006, 02:25:07 PMI might suggest to her that if she is hell bent on it, to format the drive and do a clean install of Win98 because something is definitely not right.
In all liklihood, this will yield the fastest resolution.
stack dump... If i could remimber how to tell you to do it I would. It's been quite a while since I worked in IT. Your tcp/ip stack needs to basically be "tossed" and rebuilt most likely. Not anything you cold do in the GUI. you would need to go to a un line and do it that way.. Call tech support.
Remove all aspects of anything network and/or dialup... Log into the OS, log in using the same user name you want to use... Then reenable the devices and recreate the connections... Maybe it will work...
If it's Win98Gold, you're screwed... If it's Win98SE, you can probably pull it off... (I think 98se is build 2222)
The real solution is to format the drive and install Win2K. :thumb:
Phaedrus, I'd agree that if there aren't applications you can't install again (missing install disks, whatever), you're better off re-installing win 98 (second edition if you have it). However, one good point mentioned in the previous post..
Quote from: that_guyYour tcp/ip stack needs to basically be "tossed"..
You could try this as a last attempt effort. There are two ways to make this happen :
1. modify the routing tables by hand using "route". You can do a ROUTE PRINT, but I'm not even sure if win 98 fully supports this, and
2. uninstall and re-install TCP/IP. That will remove the existing stack and install a clean version of routing tables, etc.
Again, a reinstall is probably best if you can back up user data and reinstall the most important apps.
Good luck.
EDIT : Looks like RVertigo beat me to it. Although win2k is probably not an option with 48MB of ram...
Quote from: sys49152 on January 23, 2006, 12:42:47 PMAlthough win2k is probably not an option with 48MB of ram...
You'd be surprised... 2K is nowhere near as bad as XP. Plus, 2K gives you the option to shut unused parts of the OS off, unlike 98.
a few thoughts becuase windows 98 is just a pain in the ass and its usually only worth troubleshooting for an hour or so before most people just format and re-install :laugh:
- i would double check the password and username, it sounds like there could be a problem there.
- delete all of the connections, delete tcp/ip and add it again and then build your connection
- uninstall any firewall, or any other "utility" that would try to filter things like a modem connection.
did you try typing "ADMIN" in as pass, i know ive used this on my old 98 laptop before and others as well. but wth do i know lol im a hardware guy not a software guy lol
I didn't try admin, but I considered throwing it out the window and running over it with my car. Think that will help? :thumb: (atleast then I'll be able to identify the problem)
she just wants to use for email right!
install linux.. will work wonders!
edit: sounds like win98 has to be reinstalled.. but ithink there is also asome other software in there that's causing it.. but reinstall of win98 or linux will work it good!
I haven't actively used Linux in a couple of years, so I am probably out of touch with it :icon_razz: but I remember Linux would not work with Winmodems. Is this still the case? Or has someone hacked a patch for it? The laptop in question has a Lucent Winmodem. :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: RVertigo on January 23, 2006, 01:16:35 PM
Quote from: sys49152 on January 23, 2006, 12:42:47 PMAlthough win2k is probably not an option with 48MB of ram...
You'd be surprised... 2K is nowhere near as bad as XP. Plus, 2K gives you the option to shut unused parts of the OS off, unlike 98.
64mb is core req for 2000 and XP. Processor speed req went up for XP (I think 133 for 2K and 233 for XP). Considering a min spec machine is going to be a dog anyway, 48MB is probably a non-starter.
Quote from: TheGoodGuy on January 24, 2006, 12:19:24 AM
install linux.. will work wonders!
So...which current linux distribution is going to run a desktop with 48MB? I expect the pc's owner is going to want more than a console and a telnet client. You want a gui shell? A web browser? 48MB falls well below the minimums for most (if not all) of the current mainstream distros. Take RedHat9: 64MB will get you text only, 128 (min) for graphical mode, or 192 (recommended, graphical mode)...the current RedHat desktop requires 256MB...just like SUSE 10 (256MB required/512 reccommended)...you can get away will less on Linspire, but it's still 128MB min/256 recommended.
Sure, you can get the
kernel running on older hardware...but so what?
Not trying to start an OS flame war (/. is the place for that)...but "linux runs on old hardware" is quite a tired exaggeration in the consumer desktop arena.
Not only that, but the owner has a hard enough time with Windows and she is used to it. Linux is another world. If it were my laptop, and I wanted to keep it for email or word processing, I probably WOULD install Linux on it. Just to add a little flavor to my computing life :icon_razz: But I've used it before and I am familiar with it.
The laptop is at an odd moment in time, really. She doesn't want to just "throw it away", because it can still technically do it's job (if it was working right) but yet it is worth nothing, and isn't worth putting any money into. It's in the twilight of technology 8)
Quote from: Phaedrus on January 24, 2006, 10:03:34 AMThe laptop is at an odd moment in time, really. She doesn't want to just "throw it away", because it can still technically do it's job (if it was working right) but yet it is worth nothing, and isn't worth putting any money into. It's in the twilight of technology 8)
Face it...it's a boat anchor. :icon_razz:
Upgrade the RAM to 64 MB and install Win2K. :thumb:
Quote from: RVertigo on January 24, 2006, 04:06:52 PM
Upgrade the RAM to 64 MB and install Win2K. :thumb:
Antique laptop == unlikely to find ram module. But it's worth a shot, I suppose. If it were a desktop, no problem...you could dump a half gig of PC133 in there for short money.
Still, at 64MB the experience is probably going to leave a lot to be desired.
Ebay for the RAM... Or hit up the PC recycle places... could prolly find some for cheap.
Quote from: Badger on January 25, 2006, 11:47:05 AM
Quote from: RVertigo on January 24, 2006, 04:06:52 PM
Upgrade the RAM to 64 MB and install Win2K. :thumb:
Antique laptop == unlikely to find ram module. But it's worth a shot, I suppose. If it were a desktop, no problem...you could dump a half gig of PC133 in there for short money.
Still, at 64MB the experience is probably going to leave a lot to be desired.
ebay
Quote from: RVertigo on January 25, 2006, 12:19:47 PM
Ebay for the RAM... Or hit up the PC recycle places... could prolly find some for cheap.
Right...assuming that there was -ever- an option for a 64MB module in that particular laptop (older laptops were notorious for having non-standard memory sockets and anemic capacity). It's not like you can just drop any old 1GB module into a laptop from 1992... I've certainly owned laptops that did not have such grand capacity.
Then again, I've owned laptops (well, "portables") that didn't have
hard drives that big.
I'm sure 64MB is realistic... And an ebay search wouldn't take much effort.
I wasn't saying to drop a gig in it... Most desktop PCs don't have a gig... Even these days.
Quote from: RVertigo on January 26, 2006, 12:58:38 PM
I wasn't saying to drop a gig in it...
Right...I was just making the point that computers (especially old laptops) do not have arbitrary capacity. Putting a gig in it seems almost rediculous, and it wasn't really that long ago that putting 128MB in anything seemed rediculous. My current laptop has 2GB in it and regularly runs 3 OS's at the same time...people seem to take such things for granted these days.
We've had machines in our lab that have 128GB+ of memory in them...it's probably not going to be too much longer before that doesn't seem like a lot. :shrug:
Try downloading DSL (Demn Small Linux), it boots from a CD and you'll find out if it will work with the modem and other goodies. If she's just going to use it for browsing then you could test, see if it works, and then install onto the HD if you desire. Or she could just boot it from the CD when she wants to browse. It boots pretty fast and I use it on an old laptop I have with no HD to browse and connect to work with rdesktop.
Try it. It won't hurt anything.