time to upgrade. currently i have a P3 1ghz with some board i never heard of. 128mb of SD(?)RAM.
im looking for a motherboard/CPU combo in the price range of $100-$200 bucks. www.tigerdirect.com has some good prices but idk exactly what to get. i'd prefer a pentium but would settle for the next best (AMD?). i also want an AGP slot. i dont care about integrated sound or anything. in fact that might even be better then my current sound card. as far as i know all i need is a board/cpu combo and some DDR ram. i think i can use everything else.
so i need some input from the computer guys! any reccomendations or suggestions? tips and tricks? any and all is appreciated :)
Is there a Fry's near you? they have some sweet deals for proc/mobo combos.
I think the better way to attack computer upgrades is to figure out what you want to do with it first. What apps do you need to run? Gaming? Something just to waste time on the forums?
well lets see. im really not a gamer anymore. when i need my fix i just play a lil red faction on ps2. im not into the multimedia movie making or music dloading either. i dont need something thats super fast however i find that im sitting here staring a lot, waiting for something to load. the most demanding program i run is prob Photoshop. i wait A LOT for stuff to load. i use my computer for research and a lot of photo editing.
its been so long since i've built a PC so im not up to date with the latest graphics stuff. i think the last time i built a system, AGP was the way to go as opposed to PCI for graphics. im seeing a lot of boards that dont have AGP slots. whats up with that? is there something new that i dont know of? are most of these boards using integrated graphics?
You don't see AGP on newer boards because PCI-Express (not to be confused with regular PCI) is the newer standard.
Doesn't look like you're asking for much. You could easily spend $100 and get something very decent. Opposed to buying online from lesser known retailers? The deals are amazing from them. http://www.pricewatch.com/ is a good place to see some nice deals.
Weasel, if you're running XP with 128mb of RAM, and waiting for things to load is your only problem with your PC, all you need is RAM. I'm running a PIII 850mhz with 512mb of RAM and nothing slows it down. It's a cheap fix too. Bump yours up to at least 256mb or even 512mb and you should be fine. Here's a good place for cheap RAM online: http://www.geeks.com/
:cheers:
Jeez. I didn't even see that. Ed is absolutely right. You still have millage on your system. RAM is cheap and there's no reason why you can't go to 1GB right away. You should see immediate improvement.
wow im surprised to see hear that. this is excellent. im assuming i have SDRam.. can i just swap that out with DDR?
no
sd ram and ddr are not compadable dont try an just swap them
you need sd ram you should be able to get is a local computer store
avoide places such as the source, future shop , and best buy they are very over priced
expect to pay about 60 for 256mb and 100 for 512mb
ok. now i must try and figure out what i have for sure..
but say i find DDR in my system, now will this (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=586829&Sku=ULT30215) suffice? good choice? cheap at least..
Step one, download this and post all of your CPU/Motherboard/RAM information. This is necessary before you buy *anything* for your system, especially RAM that could be completely incompatible :
http://www.cpuid.org/cpuz.php
Also, let's try to understand when you're waiting..
Is it when you try to load an application? Is it clicking between applications? Is it the time it takes for Photoshop to do filter/conversion rendering? Is it all of the above? If it's load time, you might benefit from a hard drive upgrade as much as a RAM upgrade.
Post the results and it will help us help you out better. By the way, be careful with Tigerdirect. The rebate stuff may take forever to reach you. Their warehouse is very close to where I live, and people often complain that it takes at least 3-4 months and sometimes several before they receive their instant rebates. You're probably better off ordering from newegg.com, especially since you live south of the border.
...just ran CPU-Z (it's been a while). Here's the really useful stuff you need to post :
CPU tab :
- processor name
- processor code name
- processor package
- processor specification
Processor Tab :
- manufacturer
- model
- chipset
- graphics interface version
Memory
- general size
SPD
- the number of slots, and for each slot :
- slot type (right beside the slot #)
- module size
- module bandwidth
- SPD timing tables, frequency
yeah, it's a pain, but it's useful information. Or you could just get rid of everything an buy one of those really cool new intel duo core Macs.
this is a cool program :) thanks and here is the info i pulled
CPU tab :
-Intel P3 EB
- Coppermine-T
- Socket 370 FC-PGA
- Intel P3 EB 1000MHz
Processor Tab :
- unknown
- unknown
- VIA Apollo Pro Rev. 44
- AGP v2.0
Memory
- 128mb SDRAM
SPD
- the number of slots:1
- SDRAM- module size
- module size 128 Mb
- SPD timing tables, frequency -100MHz
Excellent. That helps. And because I'm lazy..
Quote from: sys49152Is it when you try to load an application? Is it clicking between applications? Is it the time it takes for Photoshop to do filter/conversion rendering? Is it all of the above? If it's load time, you might benefit from a hard drive upgrade as much as a RAM upgrade.
It'll help figuring out what you really need..
loading apps isnt usually bad. its the filters and saving of files (large ones) that is slow. i cant have that many apps open at once or things start to slow considerably and i run into programs that dont respond. its been 6 months or so since i've reformatted last, im gonna do that too.
From that programs output it looks like you've only got one RAM slot, and it's 100mhz stuff you need. It's uncommon to only have a single slot. Do stear clear from tigerdirect. It took 3 months for my rebate there. Again, one of my favorites is computergeeks. Here's the page for your SDRAM, http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?cat=719 . They've got a 512mb DIMM for $49.95(512MB SDRAM PC100 ECC Registered 168-Pin DIMM ). This is assuming your system will accept 512mb of RAM. Still don't know what size hard drive you have. Check the size and free space.
Here's the best option I could find given the budget ( < $200 USD) :
From NewEgg (http://www.newegg.com") :
CPU :
- AMD Sempron 64 2600 (retail, which includes heatsink and fan) $71
Motherboard :
- ECS 755-A2 v1.0 (Socket 754, AGP and ATA Drive support) $43.99
Memory :
- BUFFALO 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) $68.83
Total (not including shipping) : $183.82
Here's why I picked the above components :
- the chip could be upgraded in a year or two with an Athlon 64 bit processor (Socket 754) which would provide significant performance improvement, especially if you find that photoshop operations run a bit slow with each successive version of the software. And I'm sure those chips, in a year or two, could be had for very very cheap off ebay.
- the price is right. It's probably going to be close to $200, which I set as the upper limit. And it will be a stunningly fast compared to your existing system.. not application load times (hard drive dependent) but definitely processing times for photoshop rendering and switching between applications (browser, photoshop, email client app, whatever).
- the RAM could be used in any resonably recent system.. so that's not a throw-away regardless of your next upgrade path. The caveat being that the upgrade happens again in the next year or two.
You could of course modify/substitue different manufacturers, but just keep in mind that if you go with the AMD processor (Socket 754), you need :
- a socket 754 motherboard, and one that supports 64 bit processors
- a motherboard that supports ATA drives (not *just* serial ATA)
- a motherboard that has AGP support (this is getting harder and harder)
- RAM that operates at 400Mhz (PC3200). And since you've got 1 GB (in the configuration I listed above) in a single chip, you could always get another 1GB if you go out and buy a Canon 5D or something crazy like that, and need to process a few hundred megs of raw iimag data in RAM.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1643731&sku=MBM-U8668-340
ive never had probs with tigerdirect or the rebates. now in addition to this youd need a vid card, can get a cheap one at wally world or frys or any places that sells these things, and memory, but this would be a decent starting point. im tryin to stay away from the socket 754 boards. seems like fewer and fewer cpus are being made for them. see more and more socket 939 stuff and pcie vid cards too. i had just finished my build using an nforce4 ultra mobo and an amd opteron144 processor on this build. and its a screamer. but if youre not into blazing speeds etc. what i posted would work for you ;) O0
I've had good luck with a company called NCIX, www.ncix.com. Your CPU seems ok, you definatly need more RAM and like someone else said 512mb should be enough for what you do.
www.pricewatch.com
thanks for all the responses guys. honestly im not 100% sure what ima do yet but it looks as tho im just gonna do the whole thing. sys49152, i liked you suggestion. i think i may go with the setup you devised unless someone has a revision?
May i make a few aditions to sys49152's list
I would recomend a
BIOSTAR GEFORCE 6100-M7 Socket 754 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
$59.99
over the listed ecs. this board has sata, pci-e and an onborad geforce 6100 (most likely more powerfull than you videocard atm) making it quiet powerfull and very upgadeable but it about $17 more i have worked on many of these boards befor as we sell many of them and there a great value board.
i would also recomend a
AMD Sempron 64 2800+ Palermo 800MHz FSB Socket 754 Processor Model SDA2800BXBOX - Retail
$75.50
This processot is almost identaial to the 2600+ but it is a bit faster and it includes 256kb cashe instead on 128kb
this is one of the major down falls of the 2600+
jsut a few sugestions to make you dollar go a bit farther.
if there are any questions just ask :)
BTW i work here www.kingstoncomputerplanet.com
ok so this is what i ended up purchasing
1 MB ECS 755-A2 v1.0 SIS755 754 - Retail
Item #: N82E16813135151 $43.99 $43.99
1 CPU AMD|SEMPRON64 2600+ RTL - Retail
Item #: N82E16819104249 $71.00 $71.00
1 MEM 1G|BUFFALO D400 DD4333-1G R - Retail
Item #: N82E16820150623
the ECS 755-A2 also has SATA drive support. It's a very solid board -not the top performer but good for the $. The sempron...eh you could do better with a real AMD 64. The sempron isn't bad, just a tad castrated. The memory will help.
I have seen Fry's selling dual core AMD 64's with ECS boards around $275. More than your budget but then again it will be adequate for years. I bought an AMD 3000 and ecs755-A2 almost a couple years ago (has it been that long? wow). It's still good. Don't try to overclock it if you use a SATA drive! I suggest you put a SATA drive on your list -they are better.
Let us know how it all works after you get it up and running. Good luck.
one question... the sempron i purchased is a 1.6ghz..now i saw 2.6Ghz celerons that were way cheaper. why? i already bought the sempron and im not worried about it cause this is starting to become a headache. just curious
AMD uses 2600, 3000+, whatever to show similarity in performance to intel chips. Just because the sempron is running at 1600 doesn't mean it's slower than a celeron4.
So are you starting to save for a SATA drive yet? Watch for super sales at Staples or NewEgg or wherever. I was pleasantly surprised with their performance.
so the sempron i purchased is a 2600. but 1.6 Ghz. im sayin there were celerons that were over 2 ghz for cheaper.
Mhz does not mean it's faster or better. My AMD65 3000+ runs at 2000Mhz. The celeron is a dog, plain and simple. The Sempron could kick it's ass.
Don't worry about it. It's not even close. The 2600 Sempron is about as fast as a 3 GHz celeron. Here's an example of a Sempron 2800 compared to a Celeron 2.8 GHz, if you're really interested :
http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/processors/sempron/index_2.shtml
There are a couple of reasons why the Sempron makes a lot of sense :
- it's significantly cheaper than a comparable Celeron chip, unless you can find one on special pricing (even then, it'll likely be price the same, not cheaper than the Sempron)
- the floating point calculation times of the Sempron completely *toast* the Celeron chips. It's not even close. This is extremely important for the type of calculations used by programs like photoshop
- there's an awesome upgrade path for you, given you've got a board that supports the 754 socket. In a year or two, or three, you could buy a full fledged Althon 64 bit processor, 3000+ for pretty cheap, and simply stick it in your current motherboard.
Oh yeah. Whatever you do, don't even bother looking at component prices after you've ordered some. They drop almost every day (it's painful!). Just buy it, and forget about the price you paid for it.
www.zipzoomfly.com is a good source, too. They often have free two-day shipping and prices that are lower than what I can get wholesale. I've found some decent prices on Tiger Direct at times, but they also can have outrageous shipping charges. O0
sys ur exactly right. i bought it so thats what im gonna have. period. john thanks for the reassurance. i figured that was the case but obviously didnt know. thanks again guys for the great info. i'll let u know how it turns out. then next month we can talk about other upgrades i.e. harddrive and vid card :)
so i got everything together and its not working. no bios on the screen, no system beep on startup, nothing. i cant turn it off once its on. when the IDE cables are plugged in, the hard drive doesnt spin nor do the cd drives work. so i checked and resat the ram, unplugged the IDE cables, nothin. sys, i dont think i bought the same ram u suggested. the one i bought cost $74.55. the one u suggested was $68.xx. the one i bought is in the link below.
so does anyone see a compatiblity issue?? any other suggestions?
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820150623
Quote from: weaselnoze on February 16, 2006, 04:46:53 PM
so i got everything together and its not working. no bios on the screen, no system beep on startup, nothing. i cant turn it off once its on. when the IDE cables are plugged in, the hard drive doesnt spin nor do the cd drives work. so i checked and resat the ram, unplugged the IDE cables, nothin. sys, i dont think i bought the same ram u suggested. the one i bought cost $74.55. the one u suggested was $68.xx. the one i bought is in the link below.
so does anyone see a compatiblity issue?? any other suggestions?
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820150623
Unplug the floppy cable, unplug the HD cable. Try to boot with nothing but the processor and memory installed.
You also installed the small square power plug to the board right? If your power suply is old it will possibly lack the right connector (it will also lack SATA power connectors but those can be adapted).
Memory should still alow a boot screen, but you could try stripping that out too. Also recheck the power connectors and make sure they are snapped in (the little plastic lock tab).
Start minimal and then start adding stuff. I have never seen a bad board out of the box.
weaselnoze,
don't worry, we'll figure this out. I'm still at the office but will look up all the info again when I get home. Try John's suggestions and report back. I don't think the RAM is the problem (quick view of thel ink you posted shows me RAM that should work). Also, make sure everything is plugged in tight.. the RAM should click in, and so should the Video card. I had similar problems a few years ago and found that my video card wasn't properly snapped in. Don't push too hard on the board.. just enough to have it click in. Also, make sure the processor is in properly, as well as its heat sink / fan. There should have been a sticker with a gel square on the top of the processor (if they weren't already attached). Don't pull them apart (the gel helps to distribute the heat from the processor across the heat sink.. if pulled apart again, it loses its effectiveness).
Again, I look it up and post suggestions when I get home this evening. Could you describe what wires your CASE has, and if there are any issues connecting the case wires to the motherboard? Typically you should have power, hard drive, fan and reset.. probably others I can't remember.
are any of the fans spining?
check the manin 20 pin power connection
also the 4 pin power connection (may not be on that board)
if you are getting power
try resting the bios
To do this remove the battery while the computer is off wait 10 sec then put it back in
still no post then try a diffrent ram slot
if still no then remove board from case and try with just nesseary components you must have cpu,ram, video and power
..finally got home (long day at work, plus some nasty freezing rain)
Simba's suggestions are spot on. Some of this will likely be a repeat, but here goes :
Note : I used the 755 A2 v1.0 manual (http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWeb/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?MenuID=21&LanID=9&DetailID=381&DetailName=Manual") from the ECS site for the following instructions. All instructions assume that the RAM slots are on the NORTH side of the board and the floppy controller slot on the SOUTH side.
step 1 : only connect the minimum required components and keep the main power switch located on the BACK of your case in the OFF '0' position
- power to motherboard
- video card
- memory (the slot that's furthest away from the cpu/heatsink)
- cpu/heatsink/fan (make sure all of these are connected securely together)
step 2 : reset your motherboard (again, the power must be off)
- locate JUMPER 2 (JP2). It's to the left of the floppy slot, on the south side of the board
- short pins 1 and 2 (1 is the furthest north, 2 in the middle, and 3 is furthest south). This turns BIOS protect off.
- locate JUMPER 1 (JP1). it's near the south-east area of your board
- short pins 2 and 3 (pin 1 is furthest south, pin 2 in the middle, pin 3 is furthest north)
- leave it like this for a few minutes
- now short pins 1 and 2 on JP1, but leave JP2 as is.
step 3 : turn the power on.
- turn the main power switch on the back of your case to the ON position '1'
- hit the power on button probably located on the front face of your machine
What happens? Does the fan spin? If it doesn't work, don't continue.. just post what happens.
step 4 : plug the hard drive in
- make sure your computer is off (master power switch set to off)
- locate the IDE1 slot. It's the slot located furthest EAST on the board.
- plug the hard drive cable into this slot, and make sure that the red line on the cable is located on the NORTH end of this slot
- plug the other end (the one furthest from the end plugged into the board, not the middle connection) into your hard drive, with the red strip at the end closest to the power connection
- make sure your hard drive (the primary hard drive with your operating system) is set to MASTER (controlled by jumper settings on the hard drive). It might currently be in CS (cable select) mode, but this can sometimes be problematic.
- turn the master power switch on, and press the power on button
What happens? Does the hard drive spin (you'll heard it). What message do you see on the screen? If it doesn't work, post the results.
If it works, then connect each additional component piece by piece. Check each time if the system boots up. If it doesn't it may be the result of that component not being setup correct (e.g. two master drives competing on the same cable, your optical drive (cdrom/dvdrom/burner) not wanting to play together).
Whatever happens, post your results. We'll get to the bottom of the problem. If it is a hardware issue, the components can be returned to NewEgg for exchange.
Yea I didn't think about clearing CMOS with the jumper but it couldn't hurt.
ok so i unplugged everything and started over. vid card is in, all power connected (except the square 4 pin plug! dont have one on my supply), reset cmos and booted. nothing on the screen. then i put the ram module in, still nothing. the only case wire connected is the power switch. still i cant turn the system off, using the case switch, once its on. i have to kill it from the powersupply switch in the back.
Weaselnoze,
I believe (and will try to confirm) that the Athlon 64 (including the Sempron 64) and Intel P4 chips require the auxiliary 12V 4-pin connection along with the standard connection, probably due to higher voltage requirements. I'll try to confirm, but I'm pretty sure there's no way around it. You also can't refashion your existing power supply connections to feed the 4-pin auxiliary connector. It didn't occur to me to check this prior to posting my suggestion on what to buy. That being said, the only way you could have used your existing power supply was to buy an older sempron (non-64) based chip, or an older intel pentium chip.
I think it's probably best if you visit a local computer shop and pick up a power supply, given that you want to get the machine up and running as soon as possible. I'd suggest at least 400W, but I'm sure that even a 350W one will do for your current setup.. and one that has both connectors of course. You should be looking at spending between $15-$25 for a no name brand.
thanks again sys. i'll hit up the store on my way home from church today:)
Quote from: sys49152 on February 19, 2006, 12:02:56 AM
Weaselnoze,
I believe (and will try to confirm) that the Athlon 64 (including the Sempron 64) and Intel P4 chips require the auxiliary 12V 4-pin connection along with the standard connection,
Yes it does. If the power supply weaselnose has now lacks this connector then it won't run.
well guys that seemed to be the problem. i am now typing on my new system :) thanks for all the help guys. i'll keep this thread alive and let u know how things work out. so far so good. just getting all the things set up (ugh). under the system properties, it says i only have 512mb of RAM. how come it doest show 1Gb?
That's awesome! :thumb:
Credit goes to John though. He called it first :
Quote from: johnYou also installed the small square power plug to the board right? If your power suply is old it will possibly lack the right connector..
Let us know how you like it and if it's significantly faster than your previous setup. I'd suggest running CPUID again, to see what the memory slot information shows. Again, post your results.
Enjoy!
cpuz says im still running 512mb. wtf. it also says the timing is 199.99mhz. shouldnt it be 400mhz?
just noticed i have the mod in DIMM2. gonna try and put it in 1. brb
nope. in cpuz it still says 512mbytes. but under the SPD tab, the module size for the stick is 1024mbytes...
EDIT : read the next post first. If it doesn't work try the steps outlined in this post
200Mhz is fine.. it should be running at that speed. If you look at the CPU tab in CPU-Z, in the clocks section it will show that your FSB is running at 200.
Now, a couple of questions :
- when you turn your computer on and it does a memory count/post, what does it read?
- under the "Memory" tab in CPU-Z, what does it have listed for TYPE, SIZE, CHANNELS, and what are the CAS#, RAS# to CAS# and RAS# values.
- under the SPD tab, check each slot.. only one should have any values. For this one, what does it list for Module Size, Max Bandwidth, Manufacturer (might be Samsung or Micron), and again what are the SPD Timing Table values.
The RAM code be defective. RAM is generally the most flaky piece of hardware in new computers (probably a close race b/w the RAM and the video card for most number of defects). If there's any way you can plug this into a friend's computer to see if it's recognized properly, it will help us figure out where the problem lies.
I just noticed on the ECS website that they've got a newer version of the BIOS..
Quote from: ECS Website-Update AMD K8 reference code to patch memory size detect
Sounds like that might be the problem. Go to the
BIOS download page and grab the 1.1b BIOS update plus the firmware flash utility. Read the "How to use Award WinFlash utility" PDF file and it will guide you through the process.
Quote from: weaselnoze on February 20, 2006, 09:18:10 PM
cpuz says im still running 512mb. wtf. it also says the timing is 199.99mhz. shouldnt it be 400mhz?
just noticed i have the mod in DIMM2. gonna try and put it in 1. brb
Flash the bios (you really should) and 200 mhz is correct.
Quote from: sys49152 on February 20, 2006, 07:34:24 PM
That's awesome! :thumb:
Credit goes to John though. He called it first :
Quote from: johnYou also installed the small square power plug to the board right? If your power suply is old it will possibly lack the right connector..
Of course! I'm a network Administrator :laugh: 2 months ago I was an idiot, now with my new title I'm an expert :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I know the board, if that 4 pin connecter isn't snapped in right (and it goes on real tight) the same thing results.
damn..you bought an ECS board...sigh... :cookoo:
Quote from: chinox22x on February 21, 2006, 12:00:21 PM
damn..you bought an ECS board...sigh... :cookoo:
ECS has come a long way. Performance is almost the equal of similar boards of that vintage. It sucks to overclock (if you have SATA drives) but it's a strong performer....at least the A2. I can't speak for the newest boards.
blaaah i like my setup beter :flipoff: ;)
ok wtf. i replied the other day and im checking now and dont see my reply. how strange. anyway it went soemthing like this...
im really happy with my new system. things are coming together and im completely satisfied as of now. i havent done much photo editing but i already see how much of a difference it will make.
the bios update worked btw. everything is cool now :)
thanks again guys!
That's really good news! Enjoy the new system.
And btw, John's on the money with the ECS board you ordered. It's had nothing but great reviews from all of the well respected hardware review sites (AnandTech, TomsHardware, if those mean anything to you).
Quote from: sys49152 on February 24, 2006, 06:18:01 PM
That's really good news! Enjoy the new system.
And btw, John's on the money with the ECS board you ordered. It's had nothing but great reviews from all of the well respected hardware review sites (AnandTech, TomsHardware, if those mean anything to you).
At the time I built my AMD64 system the comperable boards were hardly any better and in some tests worse. The A2 sucks for the overclocker, but for a regular user it works fine. My 1 gig AMD64 /ECS system has worked without hitch for almost 2 years. No complaints from me.
Hi there all,
Well, I had an ECS K7S5A board in a machine I built three years ago and it recently died. The first one I bought was DOA and the dealer replaced it under warranty, but it was still a pain to build it up and find it was dead. I replaced the ECS board with an MSI board and am very pleased with it. Maybe ECS quality is better now, but to me, it's not worth going back to their stuff. It's like the Hyundai Excel I once owned, a 1989 model. Supposedly, their cars are better now but I won't ever buy one again. It needed a transmission rebuild at 60,000 miles and they wouldn't fix it under warranty. Enough said.
Good luck,
Todd
The ECS A2 is almost an exact copy of the SiS reference board. This is probably why it worked so well out of the blocks. Like I said, I have heard ECS horror stories but this one board is reliable. No question that for an extra $20 or $30 you can get an ASUS that is considered far better quality.