Hi everyone. I just picked up a used 1997 gs with 18k miles yesterday and thought this would be the best place to ask questions about the starting issues on my bike.
To describe in detail, I bought this bike from a guy who kept it sitting out for a year. He claimed that the battery and clutch cable were replaced recently. The ride home was ok except that I noticed the idle speed higher than it should be (was around 3k). I expected this because the bike had been sitting out for a year and expected the carbs to be gunked up.
The problems started after I got home. I came back about 4 hours later and tried to start the bike. First few times it would crank but not fire up completely. I tried again after another hour but this time would not crank at all. I do not hear any clicking from the general location of the battery either.
I did get it to start today though, it's very erratic. I push the starter a couple of times and on some random chance it will crank. Anyone have any clue what is going on?
Welcome!
Did you pull the choke on? Is the tank full of gas? Was the battery replaced last year, or just before he sold it to you? How long has it been sitting with the new battery?(<--maybe ask that of the previous owner) Is the fuel selector in the ON position? Did you leave the ignition in Park?(<--that will drain the battery, because it leaves the taillight on)
Quote from: scratch on February 17, 2006, 04:11:06 PM
Welcome!
Did you pull the choke on? Is the tank full of gas? Was the battery replaced last year, or just before he sold it to you? How long has it been sitting with the new battery?(<--maybe ask that of the previous owner) Is the fuel selector in the ON position? Did you leave the ignition in Park?(<--that will drain the battery, because it leaves the taillight on)
I tried it with the choke all the way on, all the way off, half way, and everything in between.
From the looks of it, the battery seems to have sat there for a bit. If the battery was drained would it be able to power the horn/headlight/gauges? All those thing work when the ignition is at on. Also, when I push the starter the lights do not dim at all.
The fuel selector has beem left on pri the whole time.
Quote from: Savor on February 17, 2006, 05:00:25 PM
From the looks of it, the battery seems to have sat there for a bit. If the battery was drained would it be able to power the horn/headlight/gauges? All those thing work when the ignition is at on. Also, when I push the starter the lights do not dim at all.
A drained/weak battery can still power the lghts/horn, and even turn the engire over, but not have enough power to actually start the engine. This happened to me.
Yes, it has the voltage, but not enough amperage to start the bike. Does the battery have enough fluid? And, if it does, then it might just need to be recharged.
Prime could flood the engine.
Did the previous owner clean the carbs?
If not, you're carbs are still clogged. He may have just turned the idle way up just to get the thing to run; this would also be why it wont start, the throttle is already partially open, but this is merely conjecture.
We need to do more investigation.
Is the tank full of gas? Good, clean, new gas?
The gas is at little less than half tank full. Also, I don't think I saw an "on" on the fuel selector. I will fill up with new gas tomorrow and update.
Just tried jump starting with a car. Didn't crank at all. I think the real problem here is not that it doesn't start with cranking but that it doesn't crank at all. Could it be a lose connection somewhere? If so, where?
It sounds like a loose connection somewhere. It could be a switch. The clutch switch on mine was flaky. We had to short it to get the bike to start the day I bought it. I cleaned it out and it works fine now. Also check the wiring to the battery and to the starter.
Sounds Electrical to me, its a bad connection a poor earth or intermittent fault somewhere. First thing to check is if the solenoid makes a single "click" when you hit the start button this will give you some clue as to what side of the starting circuit is faulty, if yes it proves the clutch switch, start button, kill switch, ignition switch and side stand interlock are all ok because the solenoid is getting a supply and the fault is with the starter motor and drive, the solenoid contacts or the heavy leads and their connections. If the solenoid does not click the fault must be with the switches mentioned above and the associated wiring but are you sure the battery is ok? They dont like being off charge for long periods of time. 12volts across the terminals does not indicate its ok, what matters is if it can deliver the 80 or so amps the starter motor needs to turn the engine over over and this current carrying capacity can only be tested using specialist gear. Perhaps you could take the battery to an Auto-Electrician and ask them to load test it.
There is no easy answer to this problem although I do suspect the battery, however the fault could be any one of a number of things, I think firstly you should get the battery load tested and if it proves to be ok then you will have to get a good manual (I think the Haynes one is best) and a multimeter and start/checking testing.
Quote from: Savor on February 17, 2006, 02:48:23 PM
The problems started after I got home. I came back about 4 hours later and tried to start the bike. First few times it would crank but not fire up completely. I tried again after another hour but this time would not crank at all. I do not hear any clicking from the general location of the battery either.
I did get it to start today though, it's very erratic. I push the starter a couple of times and on some random chance it will crank. Anyone have any clue what is going on?
Still sounds like battery to me, but:
Check this thread: http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=19197.msg174909#msg174909
If that isn't enough, Search for starter switch, user Kerry :thumb:
(Many diagrams, schematics, troubleshooting techniques)
Good luck and let us know what you find
Quote from: Savor on February 17, 2006, 08:03:02 PM
Just tried jump starting with a car. Didn't crank at all. I think the real problem here is not that it doesn't start with cranking but that it doesn't crank at all. Could it be a lose connection somewhere? If so, where?
http://www.bbburma.net/Scans/Haynes_WiringDiagram_US_90-96.jpg
I'm going to disagree with everyone who says it's the battery. The symptoms just don't add up to a bad battery. If the lights work and they don't dim when you hit the starter switch, then there's no draw on the battery from the starter. This is more of a loose connection or bad switch problem.
The easiest way to test most switches is to short them. I use a fuse similar to the ones on the bike. They plug into the switch wires perfectly.
Quote from: Egaeus on February 19, 2006, 06:04:45 AM
I'm going to disagree with everyone who says it's the battery. The symptoms just don't add up to a bad battery. If the lights work and they don't dim when you hit the starter switch, then there's no draw on the battery from the starter. This is more of a loose connection or bad switch problem.
The easiest way to test most switches is to short them. I use a fuse similar to the ones on the bike. They plug into the switch wires perfectly.
Could you explain a bit more?
Which part? :)
The lights should dim if your bike is trying to start. A battery's voltage doesn't stay constant under a load because it has internal resistance. If you put a large load on the battery, you're going to reduce its voltage significantly. Also, since the lights and the starter are connected in parallel, you will also reduce the current flowing to the lights. This will cause them to dim. If they don't dim, then the starter is not trying to engage. This means that the battery isn't the culprit.
The other causes could be a loose connection or a bad switch. I'm betting on a bad switch. Did you take the MSF BRC? If not you should. If you did, then you should remember FINE-C. Fuel, Ignition, Neutral, Engine cutoff, Clutch. That's what you need to check before you press the starter button. Fuel is out. Ignition apparently works because the lights come on. If the neutral light comes on, then that switch works, and I believe it will start in gear anyway, though it's a bad idea. The engine cutoff switch could be bad. The clutch switch could be bad. The starter button could be bad.
Start with the clutch switch. It's the easiest to check and fix. It's right behind the base of the clutch lever, and has two leads going to it from the wiring harness. Simply take the leads off and plug them into a spare fuse or short them some other way. If it starts reliably, then take the switch off (two #1 phillips screws) and check it. It's probably dirty. Clean it and put it back on. It should work, but if it doesn't, it'll have to be replaced.
Now if it's not the clutch switch, then you'll have to check the other two. They're harder to get to, and I haven't taken the switch assembly apart, so I can't help you. They are not replacable individually, so if you can't fix them, the whole assembly has to be replaced. It's a bit expensive, but under $100.
Edit: If the Engine Cutoff switch works reliably when your bike is running, then it's probably not the problem.
Savor?
A good way to start would be to rule out the starter motor. Find the 2 terminals on the solenoid that the heavy leads are fixed to. The red one comes straight from the battery and should have 12v on it with the ignition turned off. The black one feeds the starter motor and that should have 12v on it with the ignition on and the starter button pressed. If it does then motor or its drive clutch is faulty. Try this first then come back to the forum and let us know the outcome then we can pass on more advice. The fault could be related to any number of things in the electrical system and you are going to have to trace the wiring and check and test components in a methodical order to locate it.
I found the culprit. It was the clutch lever.
I have to wiggle the clutch lever until I hear a click to start the engine. Could this be because the clutch switch is messed or becuase the clutch lever isn't coming in contact with something?
Clutch switch could be loose. Look under the clutch perch where the switch is.
http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_1230_ClutchEngagementSwitch.jpg
I have a follow up question. If i permenantly bridge the connection for the clutch switch, are there any adverse effects? Such as the battery draining or anything like that?
Quote from: Savor on April 20, 2006, 05:20:34 PM
I have a follow up question. If i permenantly bridge the connection for the clutch switch, are there any adverse effects? Such as the battery draining or anything like that?
No adverse electrical effects but then you can start the engine with the transmission in gear and the clutch engaged.
Whooopeeeeeee!!!!! :cheers:
Quote from: John Bates on April 20, 2006, 06:28:41 PM
Quote from: Savor on April 20, 2006, 05:20:34 PM
I have a follow up question. If i permenantly bridge the connection for the clutch switch, are there any adverse effects? Such as the battery draining or anything like that?
No adverse electrical effects but then you can start the engine with the transmission in gear and the clutch engaged. Whooopeeeeeee!!!!!
:cheers:
that's actually a quite useful feature if you break the clutch lever. Not that I've ever had to drive home that way....