Has anyone beside me tried the Flo-Commander system. If you haven't, you don't know what you are missing! It totally transforms the GS 500. Their web site is www.flo-commander.com
tell us more about your experiences with it, post some pics too...
(you joined the same day I crashed!)....fyi.
With just the dyno stage three kit, the bike felt stronger, but lacked anything over stock up to 5000 rpms. When you did get the rpms up from idle, it took a long time for them to fall back to idle. With the flo-commander, it totally transformed the low and midrange of my bike, and the rpms fell back to idle like a rock. Except in very cold weather, the choke is not even needed. A cycle shop near me told me about them and I tried them and was glad I did. They make a remote for it so you can adjust the air intake when traveling I suppose. I don't have it on mine.
so.... what exactly does this thing do? Their website is terrible. It reminds me more of an 'electric supercharger-type gimmick than anything else. Does anybody else smell a
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f158/Mandres/TF191_02_WHcopy.jpg)
+1 on the website comment... HORRIBLE! I didn't even want to go past the second screen
Yeah, that website is ridiculous; I got a headache just looking at the second page:
http://flo-commander.com/index2.html
You'd think they were TRYING to create a bad webpage... if so, they've certainly succeeded.
Maybe some of the members in that area (Headland, AL) can cruise by and check them out, then report what they find for the rest of us:
http://flo-commander.com/contact.htm
Performance Design
136 Airport Road
Headland, AL 36345
Just a suggestion...
I'm curious about that thing, but don't think I'd want to bother with it. Seems like it would work in theory, but I'm not sure there'd be any great benefits for our beloved lumpy old twin...
In truth, it reminds me of the old Dial-A-Jet in new packaging; could be there is nothing new under the sun after all...
gtownsend:
How much did you pay for it? Did you install it yourself, or have a shop do it? It seems designed for smoothing out throttle response at part-throttle openings; what effects have you noticed? Easier starting? Faster warmup? Since you used a Stage 3 kit, you must have replaced your airbox and filter with pods, and you must be using an aftermarket exhaust, so please describe your system (which air filter and which exhaust you're using) for us.
I've always done my own rejetting, and I'm not a fan of Dynojet or Factory Performance jetting kits. I tend to doubt that gizmo would help a near-stock GS as much as it might have helped yours. I ALWAYS replace the stock pilot jets with #40s every time I work on a GS; along with needle-shimming, that is just about all that seems required to improve the low-end performance of a GS that uses the stock filter and airbox...
It's an interesting concept, it basically makes sure that all 4 carbs are getting the same amount of airflow and that for example cylinders 1 and 4 aren't running leaner than 2 and 3 because of lack of airflow (on a straight 4, that is). I don't know how much difference it would make, but it's an interesting concept at least.
I've been running a "Flo-Commander" since I bought the bike. :laugh:
After syncing the carbs, take a length of 1/4" tube and connect the two vacuum caps together. Viola!
It's called a balance tube. Nothing new. I believe BMW has been using balance tubes for years.
Their "theories" as to how it works are bullshit. It will not compensate for varying "pressures" i.e. density within the airbox. A carburetor meters on rate of flow, not density.
However, a balance tube will help to alleviate differences in carburetor bore, valve timing, and slide valve rise. It will also hide an out of sync carburetor to a degree.
Their kits aren't worth $140.
I'm not as mechanically inclined as some of y'all, but I know GeeP knows his stuff and I am going to back him up on this. :thumb:
Not to say there isn't a good niche for this product - a lot of people don't want to cut tubes and "micky mouse" things; they are happier if it comes in a package with directions and the reassurance on how great it is. Which is fine, really.
A sportbike shop close to my house did the work on my bike. I didn't install the flo-commander at first, I just had the guy put on the jet-kit, the K&N filter, the exhaust. It ran somewhat better, but not that much better than stock. The guy from the shop sent my carbs to AL and the guys at flo-commander made my unit. After it was installed, There was a big difference in my bike. It accelerated quicker and comes back down to idle twice as fast as it did before. I am no mechanic, but watching the guy install the unit, he put a small air filter inside the air box ant the head of the unit. The exhaust I have is an IXIL racing exhaust. I have K&N filters. A Dynojet stage 3 kit. I have the dyno charts from stock, and then with the jet kit, and then one with the Flo-Commander. I will try and find a way to put them on the computer.
Quote from: GeeP on March 04, 2006, 03:51:41 PM
I've been running a "Flo-Commander" since I bought the bike. :laugh:
After syncing the carbs, take a length of 1/4" tube and connect the two vacuum caps together. Viola!
It's called a balance tube. Nothing new. I believe BMW has been using balance tubes for years.
Their "theories" as to how it works are bullshit. It will not compensate for varying "pressures" i.e. density within the airbox. A carburetor meters on rate of flow, not density.
However, a balance tube will help to alleviate differences in carburetor bore, valve timing, and slide valve rise. It will also hide an out of sync carburetor to a degree.
Their kits aren't worth $140.
I did it on my first 2 GS'es, and sorta stopped when the hose will harden and crack or come off. Then I discovered eyeball synching and that took the issues right out of play. Jet it right and eyeball synch, and keep the valves adjusted right and that hose is irrelevant. Heck you want the thing to indicate when somehting is going awry. But dial a jet didn't do anything we cant do more precisely and almost easier and definetly cheaper with jets. Maybe if you have a lot of altitude changes on your daily ride it may be more useful ... dunno. I didn't even try this link.
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: gtownsend on March 05, 2006, 07:46:14 PM
After it was installed, There was a big difference in my bike. It accelerated quicker and comes back down to idle twice as fast as it did before.
Could be this outfit just fine-tuned your existing adjustments to stablize the idle since
Dynojet doesn't normally have this problem and since the standard
Flo-Commander affects mid-to-upper range according to the site.
A glance at that site tells me that
Flo-Commander is neither regulating the flow of air into the carbs nor synchronizing the carbs via cross tubes but is actually providing a
single variable main air jet with a
single point adjustment to replace the individual fixed-size MAJ's on each carb. This could be very useful for tuning out the midrange transition/flatspot when rejetting for Stage 3 level carburetion. :thumb:
On an otherwise stock set-up I could see where
Flo-Commander could smoothen the transition by synchronizing the mixture via the single MAJ, though there'll be a price to pay at the top end for any attempt to spot enrichen lower down the RPM scale.
Quote from: gtownsend on March 05, 2006, 07:46:14 PM
I am no mechanic, but watching the guy install the unit, he put a small air filter inside the air box ant the head of the unit. The exhaust I have is an IXIL racing exhaust. I have K&N filters. A Dynojet stage 3 kit.
What airbox? If you're at Stage 3 with K&N filters then you have no airbox. :icon_confused:
Gisser's post prompted me to have another look at their terrible website.
I'm not familiar with the GSXR carbs shown, but here's what I gather:
What they're doing is adjusting main jet emulsion air through a common bleed valve. It's an interesting concept, but it won't solve the problems they state. It won't compensate for poor airbox flow distribution, and it won't directly compensate for changes in air density. Further, on a CV carb it won't sync the carbs because adjusting main jet emulsion doesn't change the slide height. The fuel schedule will increase, but they'll still be out of balance.
It doesn't change the mixture curve, it changes the bulk metering rate - exactly the same thin as changing jets. It's more of a band-aid measure. By adjusting the emulsion air content they're adjusting the mixture within a narrow range, and de-stabilizing the carburetor in the process.
It has always been my understanding that emulsion air adjustments of main jets is undesirable. The reasons why include the narrow range of possible mixtures and adverse affects on atomization. Adjusting the main emulsion air on carburetors feeding multiple cylinders can affect the mixture distribution inside the intake manifold.
The purpose of emulsion air "Main jet air" is to reduce the density of the fuel as it enters the carb body. This helps atomize the fuel faster and more efficiently. Without emulsion air fuel entering the carbs will enter the engine in droplets rather than a fine cloud. Droplet size actually has an effect on cylinder mixture. Large droplets require more time to burn, and by definition, mix with less air inside the cylinder.
How does emulsion air directly affect mixture? There is only so much room inside the main jet gallery, and room taken up by air can't be taken up by fuel. Therefore, less air flow means more fuel flow within the limits of the main jet to source it. Fighting against this is the higher density of the fuel, seen as an increase in "head" of the main jet gallery.
The two accepted methods of main jet fuel scheduling adjustment on a float-type carburetor are the needle and back-suction systems. The needle system uses a needle valve to control the fuel flow rate into the main jet standpipe. The large majority of carburetors are this type.
The second accepted system uses metering suction from the carburetor venturi to apply vacuum to the carburetor float bowl. Metering suction from the venturi enters the float bowl and is vented by a calibrated leak, the mixture adjustment needle or valve. This changes the flow rate of the main jet by altering the head main jet head seen by the venturi. Back-suction carburetors are mainly used on aircraft engines where mixture changes need to be made to compensate for increases in altitude.
The GS carb could probably be converted with a little effort to the back-suction type. However, it's really pointless unless you change pipes and filters every other week. It also provides another failure mode for the carb.
[Crack] and its a high center field pop but looks to be going long, its going,going, my god the hang time of a balloon and its over the fence, Geep smacked it outa the park! :thumb:
Myth Busted..... :thumb:
I wish they made a flo- commander for my aunt is here..........
you're the smartest GeeP!
Quote from: ajgs500 on March 17, 2006, 07:33:48 PM
I wish they made a flo- commander for my aunt is here..........
Looks like AJ slipped another one past the GSTwins goalies...
Nice score, AJ! You know most men are completely ignorant about this topic (believe me, we're THANKFUL to be ignorant about it), but my SO has the same complaint this weekend; seems like you two have synchronized, and you don't even work in the same office!
Quote from: dwn4whadever on March 17, 2006, 07:30:57 PM
Myth Busted..... :thumb:
This Topic
does smell like a
marketing plant but I see no cause to dismiss
Flo-Commander as a fraudulent product.
I think it
is debatable whether or not
Flo-Commander's primary stated purpose of compensating for uneven air density in the airbox thus synchronizing fuel/air ratio across the bank of carbs thus smoothening fuel circuit transitions is true, achievable, or mostly/totally marketing hype intended to appeal to the broadest base of customers.
No, the secondary purpose of tuning for more radical changes affecting air intake such as stage 3 modifications is more likely the impetus behind the development. As
Geep says, the main air jet is but one of several variables affecting jetting, but
is the most difficult to fool with and is usually overlooked leading to compromises in jetting.
Flo-Commander's adjustable valve makes changing the MAJ size as convenient as thumbing a dial and
possible to do on the fly! It should
all be so easy. :cheers:
Quote from: GeeP on March 06, 2006, 09:14:48 AM
By adjusting the emulsion air content they're adjusting the mixture within a narrow range, and de-stabilizing the carburetor in the process.
It has always been my understanding that emulsion air adjustments of main jets is undesirable. The reasons why include the narrow range of possible mixtures and adverse affects on atomization.
If small changes to emulsion air can make big problems, then perhaps this dial-an-emulsion device is just compensating for something; like some gummed deposits interfering with airflow. If that were true, then I could see how it could "improve" performance.
One possible problem, is that the device can't change its own effect at different RPM ranges. It would need several separate vacuum-actuated bleeders, in order to affect the emulsion air in different proportions at idle, midrange and WOT. At that point, you would have doubled the complexity of carb tuning.
On the positive side, minor tuning could still be done after reinstalling the carbs in the bike; kind-of like an idle screw, but for midrange behavior. Even though the product is probably inferior to a good jetting job, it may help people who would have given-up and ridden with bad jetting.