watch the video...it's pretty scary if you ask me
http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_033170755.html
:mad: :mad: :mad: This kind of thing just boils my blood.
Hooooray for undercover cameras!! :thumb:
Like the one cop said himself, " Theres good cops and bad cops".
And i think they all have the capacity to be Arseholes, good bad or in between.
Quote from: fireguzzi on March 19, 2006, 08:39:21 PM
Like the one cop said himself, " Theres good cops and bad cops". And i think they all have the capacity to be Arseholes, good bad or in between.
Absolutely...and I've been lucky enough to only run into the good ones, so far. I wish everyone were so lucky. :cry:
I think I'm gonna go into my local police station tomorro and ask for a complaint form :)
Holy Sh*t!
on the same subject...
today for the 1st time I rode without my licence 8)
I completely forgot to carry my wallet, and when I finally checked my pocket on jacket for it, I realized it was open, so I freaked out and thought maybe I dropped somewhere...
So anyway, it was 8:30pm, dark, and I had the smoked shield on helmet, so it was hard to see the characteristics on cars. I'm coming back from where I was after realizing I lost my wallet and i'm on the freeway, doing 79 (indicated) on a 60mph limit (wasn't thinking), and as I am passing a car, I realize it's a cruiser :o so I let go of the throtle, and keep riding next to him waiting to see his lights go off and thinking that I'm not carrying my licence :icon_rolleyes:
but, I guess he just laughed or something and just let me ride next to him for 2 miles or so before he speed more and left me behind 8)
came home, wallet with licence was on my desk. :thumb:
I love how the first guy goes as far as unlocking his holster... the unthreatening civillian (who pays that twat's salary) simply asked for a form... ridiculous. It's curious how the losers in highschool still can't get over it, even when they're 45 and are allowed to carry a firearm. I hope that prick gets shot in the f%$king head during some traffic stop by a cokehead.
yeah that is pretty f'ed up. However I wouldn't wish anything bad on someone just fot being an a$$. I know that here in Blacksburg it depends on when and where you get pulled and whether or not you look like a student, or if your address is local or not. If you obviously aren't then the cops tend to be a lot more calm and nice about dealing with whatever is going to happen. If they think that you are a student then you are getting a ticket, cause that is what spoiled brats get, tickets. I get the student treatment more often then not but I haven't been pulled in a while cause I know that if I am it is likly that i will get a ticked cause i am not balding and pissed off that I live in a college town.
not suprising... its the thin blue line at work.
some of them were over the line for sure, but I can only imagine how many bullsh*t complaints a dade-county police office would get in a given day if they didn't demand a few details before giving out forms or conducting interviews. Most of the officers asked who, why or where to screen for a legitimate complaint, and the guy got dodgey with them... i can understand their hesitation to help the guy out. Chasing him down the street is excessive, but in most of those cases, I dont see anything to be all that upset with.
Quote from: vtlion on March 20, 2006, 11:21:39 AM
some of them were over the line for sure, but I can only imagine how many bullsh*t complaints a dade-county police office would get in a given day if they didn't demand a few details before giving out forms or conducting interviews. Most of the officers asked who, why or where to screen for a legitimate complaint, and the guy got dodgey with them... i can understand their hesitation to help the guy out. Chasing him down the street is excessive, but in most of those cases, I dont see anything to be all that upset with.
point is they arent in a position to determine who's complaint is legitimate or not. they're just supposed to give the form out. the investigating officer/unit does the rest.
its bullshit to not give the form out.
Quote from: vtlion on March 20, 2006, 11:21:39 AM
Chasing him down the street is excessive, but in most of those cases, I dont see anything to be all that upset with.
He didn't just chase him down the street,
he threatened to shoot him. You will not find a court of law in this country who would not view that as being a direct threat to the civilian's life. Look at it like this, if this were Texas or any other legal carry state and a civilian (with a weapon) told a cop that he better back off or he would regret it and then unclipped his holster, someone would be dead.
Pablo is exactly right, the day your average officer goes through 3 years old law school and then is voted in as a judge will be the day it is ok for him/her to decide whether or not a complaint is "legitimate". Until then, he's simply an errand boy that our taxes pay for. Do cops get to decide which 911 calls are real or fake? No, they check them all out, that's their job, PUBLIC SERVANT.
OK, i'll bite....
So if they are just Joe-Schmoe servants of the law with NO ability to make judgements, then shouldn't the policy makers be the ones under the gun here? I agree that the first cop was way out of line, I'm not disputing that. But if cops just follow protocol, and their protocoll does not provide for distribution of a complaint form at a citizen's request, then shouldn't the people developing the system be the ones under scrutiny here (i.e. politicians, chiefs, etc)?
IMO, those cops needed a seminar on people skills. There are ways of handling issues like that.
Also, I believe that a person has to right not to tell someone all the details to a third-party. How could a person know if the party listening to the complaint was actually the other officer's friend? That would be a biased discussion on the officer's part. That is why complaints do not go directly to the person the complaint is about. It goes to their supervisor. That is who should take the compaint. Some of the officers who directed the guy to the supervisor were right in doing this.
But then again, what if the person filing the complaint doesn't want to be known and possibly singled out during traffic stops or such?
Quote from: vtlion on March 20, 2006, 12:40:13 PM
OK, i'll bite....
So if they are just Joe-Schmoe servants of the law with NO ability to make judgements, then shouldn't the policy makers be the ones under the gun here? I agree that the first cop was way out of line, I'm not disputing that. But if cops just follow protocol, and their protocoll does not provide for distribution of a complaint form at a citizen's request, then shouldn't the people developing the system be the ones under scrutiny here (i.e. politicians, chiefs, etc)?
I agree with you here for the most part but let me throw in a few things. First of which, I'm not trying to say that the police have no ability to make judgements, there are an awful lot of upstanding police officers who do their jobs fairly and very well. I
am saying that just like almost any other profession (lawyers, doctors, accountants, etc.) there needs to be someone watching to insure that they are doing their job fairly and legally. This type of observation cannot be done by another member of the same organization, which is why you have organizations like the State BAR, the AMA, and the FASB, an outside source to oversee. I would say, probably without basis, that police today have too long of a leash to begin with, to allow them to self regulate will result in what borders on a Facist state (I hold the gun, what I say goes).
Secondly I would say that I agree with you that it is certainly up to the policy makers to set this type of regulation in motion. Tallahassee did it, pretty much every station up here in Chicago has a complaint system that doesn't involve talking to some prick face to face about how his drinking buddy was a cocksmack during last nights traffic stop (DateLine NBC did a story about Chicagoland police a few years back), this should be required.
As a corrolary to my second point, when you walk into a south Florida police station at 2 am and there's no one on duty but one desk clerk and the shift sergeant, all the policy in the world doesn't mean shaZam! unless they are willing to uphold it. So I would say that while the policy makers are responsible for the initial set up, the fact of the matter is that it still falls onto the Officer's heads.
I really agree with what An said as well. I've run into too many officers over the years that are just ready to get into a fight that you can't talk to them like normal people. They're so far gone in their little power trip that it's pointless. I'm not sure how well a seminar would work, but something should be required once in a while to pull them back to planet earth.
Sorry to rant, but this just really gets me going.
Here's a story that happened to me three weeks ago. I got pulled over in Downer's Grove, IL, a relatively nice part of the suburbs and in DuPage county (this was the richest county in the country a few years ago, not sure how it is now). While keeping up with traffic, I pass a cop who is parked on the side of the road. He eventually catches up to me and pulls me over. He says I was doing 24 over the limit of 45. I tell him that it's ridiculous and that I was just keeping up with traffic. He says he doesn't have it in the radar gun, but he's writing me a ticket anyway. I explain to him that I was simply keeping up with traffic and that there was no way I was going almost 70 in a 45. His response to this statement is "if everyone else was driving off of a cliff, would you?"; I sat there for a second and tried to comprehend his level of stupidity. I then explained how the flow of traffic works and that I am much more of a threat if I were going exactly the speed limit and everyone else were going 70 and he asks me to step out of the car. He calls for backup and puts me in handcuffs when I don't give him permission to search my car. He calls the K9 unit which sniffs around the car and after about an hour of being on the side of the road they let me go with nothing on me. :mad:
I'm a young white male and this is the first time this has happened to me, if I were a minority and had to deal with this on a regular basis, I would want to shoot someone. They abuse the power given to them by that badge and there is little recourse for citizens. One thing to note, and this is not meant as an insult to anyone in anyway, but the amount of education required of a Flight Attendant is required of Police officers, none more. They're not the brightest bulbs most of the time, why do we give them the guns? :2guns:
Quote from: vtlion on March 20, 2006, 12:40:13 PM
OK, i'll bite....
So if they are just Joe-Schmoe servants of the law with NO ability to make judgements, then shouldn't the policy makers be the ones under the gun here? I agree that the first cop was way out of line, I'm not disputing that. But if cops just follow protocol, and their protocoll does not provide for distribution of a complaint form at a citizen's request, then shouldn't the people developing the system be the ones under scrutiny here (i.e. politicians, chiefs, etc)?
Are you SERIOUS? Exactly WHICH protocol was that first cop following? The "Intimidate and threaten anyone who tries to file a complaint about us" protocol"? Or was it the "Hide behind your gun and badge so you can get away with being an assh0le" protocol? That first cop has NO business carrying a weapon of ANY kind; he's a PUNK with the authority to kill you and claim you that attacked him, which makes your life expendable. He's just another frustrated fourth-string high-school football lineman who wasn't smart enough or talented enough to get a college scholarship, so he became a cop so that people would give him the "respect" he feels ENTITLED to.
I have several relatives walking the thin blue line, including a brother OTJ in NYC, and an EX-brother-in-law (now a retired detective), so I've met more than my share of cops over the years, for a variety of reasons. I'll admit, I've never met a "bad" cop, but I've met MANY punks like that first blue-suited clown; they all consider themselves to have absolute authority over civilians, and can't tolerate being questioned by the know-nothings who walk in off the street. They consider it their duty to scare away people who want to complain about the police; they aren't behind a desk to help you, they are there to protect the brotherhood from anyone who might jeopardize their position of authority.
The ONLY way to force a change on a system designed to resist change is to expose the abuses of authority to public scrutiny, which is what those videos have done. Now, it will take a lot of work by the civil authorities to order the system to be changed, and a lot of courage for them to follow through and ensure that the changes actually happen.
Here's hoping that jack-booted thug gets FIRED for his conduct; he's too tightly wrapped to be trusted carrying anything except a broom. With any luck, he'll soon be sharing a cell with a few members of the public he so obviously hates and feels superior to; THAT will be "equal justice under law".
Quote from: Cal Amari on March 20, 2006, 02:05:45 PM
Are you SERIOUS? Exactly WHICH protocol was that first cop following?
maybe you missed the part where i said the the first cop was way out of line?
That was a great move by the producers.. showing the most shocking and overbearing example first to get the viewers all worked up for the piece. Many of the other cops just got frustrated because the guy kept requesting something that they couldn't provide, even after they explained to him that they couldn't provide it. IMO, he came off like a trouble-maker.
[analogy] I work in a chemistry lab. If some jackass comes in and follows me around asking for a donut twelve times in a row after I tell him "we don't have any donuts". Refusing to talk to me in any way but to continuously badger me for something that I can't provide, I will eventually invite him to get the hell out just like some of those cops did.[/analogy]
Quote from: vtlion on March 20, 2006, 02:28:06 PM
IMO, he came off like a trouble-maker.
I didn't get that impression? :dunno_white: I thought they sent a rather good choice for the "complaint form" requester; he seemed small and unassuming, and I didn't really ever get the impression that HE was the one who was overbearing. It seemed that many of the cops were WAY too quick to get defensive, and what reason could any officer have to unhook his gun due to a rabid form seeker? :cookoo:
Of course the filmers are going to show the cases that support their cause, but the fact that ANY officers got so riled up over a simple request is ridiculous.
And that's not to say that I don't appreciate the incredibly difficult job officers have. I have no doubt that they put up with a ton of sht*ff, not to mention the danger of getting shot by someone they've pulled over for a traffic citation :mad: ....but there's no excuse for intimidating someone who's requesting a complaint form. :bs:
THANKS A LOT! NOW I'M PISSED! :mad:
I think in general, cops have this sense of superiority. If you do anything other than treat them like they're a God, they'll make you pay for it. If they stop you and tell you, you were going 90 in a 40, you have to say 'yes sir' 'I'm sorry sir'. Disagree or question them and they have the power to get you for every little thing imaginable. Look at SmartDrug's story. Because he didn't suck up he ended up getting pulled out of his car and cuffed.
And why did those cops in the video need to ask the guy for id. Why did they need to know his name? So they could single him out at every opportunity possible?
When I was younger I used to absolutely hate cops. Now that I'm older I've kinda got over it, but this story brings back all of those old feelings.
Just imagine if that guy was a minority....hed be in jail right now on drug possession charges.
Quote from: pandy on March 20, 2006, 02:39:27 PM
Quote from: vtlion on March 20, 2006, 02:28:06 PM
IMO, he came off like a trouble-maker.
I didn't get that impression? :dunno_white: I thought they sent a rather good choice for the "complaint form" requester; he seemed small and unassuming, and I didn't really ever get the impression that HE was the one who was overbearing. It seemed that many of the cops were WAY too quick to get defensive, and what reason could any officer have to unhook his gun due to a rabid form seeker? :cookoo:
I agree 100%, the guy requesting the form was exactly who people say that the police favor. An educated looking (glasses, haircut, clothes) white male who also happens to be small and was not rude or obnoxious. I don't want to think about the response that would have come across is that had been a cornrowed black male wearing FUBU, as Banner said, falsified charges.
Quote from: SmartDrug on March 21, 2006, 01:52:48 AM
I don't want to think about the response that would have come across is that had been a cornrowed black male wearing FUBU, as Banner said, falsified charges.
+1
And thank goodness for Urban Dictionary. I hadn't a clue what FUBU was! :laugh:
They're just like the cops in my old town... Croooooooooked!
Oh well, they all got a slap on the wrist I'm sure. :icon_rolleyes:
here's PART 2
http://cbs4.com/video/?id=12960@wfor.dayport.com
So far allllmost all the cops I've come in contact with have been really professional and polite. Not the nicest people, but professional nontheless.
However, I have had one incident where a gun was pointed at me by an officer.
Me and two of my friends were going to a taco bell for lunch during high school. We're on a two lane road attempting to get over to the left lane to turn off into the TB parking lot. A green explorer is next to us, and when we speed up, they speed up, when we slow down, they slow down. Completely not letting us get over. So my friend guns it (we are driving a 89 oldsmobile 98 with a rather large v8) and quickly gets ahead of an in front of the explorer just in time to turn into the parking lot.
Turns out this was an undercover drug enforcement vehicle. So they come up behind us in the drive through, the one on the passenger side (my side) draws his gun, points it at me and screams "hands on the dash." The other one is the "good cop" and is really professional. The 'bad' one was constantly threatening my friend, saying he could take him to jail and have him locked up for 20 years blah blah blah. Evidentally they were tailing someone, and our move made them lose their tail. To which I say no, you're being stupid made you lose the tail. :flipoff:
But whatever, hopefully that was the first and last time anything like that ever happens.
In general, I dislike cops. There are a few nice ones out there, however - those ones usually spend all their time doing D.A.R.E. programs at elementary schools, though. It just sucks that you have to be concerned about a cops mood and emotion because of how much that can affect the outcome of any interaction. It's like a judge that's in a good mood "I'll release some rapists today," or the judge in a bad mood "15 months for loitering, beotch."
The justice system leaves too much power to such easily corrupted hands. I was dating this one chick, and her parents were those types that hate any man who so much as looks at their daughter... Her parents were good friends with the county prosecutor (who was already known to be a douchebag)... Suffice to say, first shot at me he got in court over a stupid mishap, he really let me have it. 3 years probation and ridiculous fines for having brass knuckles in my car (I got them as a souvenier in Thailand - they were nifty and I had no idea they were illegal!). First freakin offense, too.
I got off probation early on good behavior, however. My probation officer was an alright guy.
normally i would chime in saying "this is not showing what happened before this incident" but watching this i can say nvm. there was no excuse for the behavior :icon_confused:
When I was in high school, after every home football game a lot of people would go get pizza at round table pizza. I was standing outside with my friends and I was looking at this small 80's pickup pull in, and a cop was behind him, after he was about 30 feet into the parking lot, the cop put his lights on and pulled him over. The only thing I saw was he had a brake light out. Then after about 5 minutes, another cop pulls in drives around and parks next to the other cop. And then another cop arrives and they were just giving him a hard time for a tail brake out! How ridicules is that?!
And another one that really gets me. 2 of my friends have street legal racing harness' in their cars. They have both gotten pulled over for it one time. Went to the corthouse with the paper showing they are legal and that was the end of that. Then a week or 2 ago one of them got pulled over again, for having a racing harness. My friend got the paperwork out, and showed the cop the DOT approval on the harness. The cop didn't even read anything and just said "I"ll let you off on a warning this time". Warning?? For what??? Being street legal?
Quote from: porsche4786 on June 05, 2006, 05:55:38 PM
And another one that really gets me. 2 of my friends have street legal racing harness' in their cars.
Hope they have a bar with a pickup point at the right spot. And what harness are they? There are not many that are DOT legal, like 1 or 2.
Schroth 3 point DOT approved harness. They do not have roll bars, I know it's bad to have a racing harness and no roll bar, but it's still legal not to use one and schroth does not require you use one. One of them actually took his racing seat and harness out untill he does a track day. But he will probably just use his dads racecar.
That's why I keep a few of my lawyer's cards on me at all times, and if I go in there I'm wearing a wire.