For those that don't know; the GS500 rear wheel is 3.5" wide. I have been looking to swap to a larger wheel (preferably 4.5" wide) to accommodate a larger rear tire.
I will be writing a full "how-to" for this project once I am finished. This is just my first impressions...for those that care.
I bought a 1997-2003 Katana 600 rear wheel and brake rotor hoping that everything would fit well into my 2005 GS500 swing arm. The wheel and rotor arrived, and within 10 minutes of its arrival, I had this...
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c391/KSUDanimal/wheelswap1.jpg)
The Katana wheel accepted the GS hub perfectly, the bearings are the same exact bearings in the stock GS wheel, and the rotor fit nicely into the GS brake caliper. The wheel has the exact same axle width as the GS wheel...so NOTHING HAS TO BE CHANGED. The Katana wheel and brake rotor will swap directly into the GS swing arm needing NO modification.
If you are planning on running a 150 rear tire, it doesn't look like any modifications will need to be done. The brake torque rod will be extremely close, as will the chain, but from my measurements a 150 tire should barely fit.
I, on the other hand, would like to fit a wider tire. Those keeping up with my earlier thread might remember me deciding to try a 170. Well...I backed out. I will be swapping on a 160/60 ZR17 because I got lazy. A 170 will need the chain moved outwards quite a bit. With the stock GS hub, the sprocket will have to be moved out far enough that the inner lip of the sprocket will not be fit to the machined lip on the hub (those that know the design of a hub know what I'm talking about). This could cause the sprocket to be off-center of the center-line of the axle, which seems dangerous to me. I was thinking the Katana hub would probably fit, the design seems similar to the GS hub, though the sprocket is much farther away from the wheel. Unfortunately I do not feel like putting that much money into this project, so I will have to settle for a 160 rear tire.
Overall, I am very surprised that all of the wheel swaps mentioned on this site have people using an old GSX-R rear wheel. The Katana wheel is pretty much exactly the same as the GS wheel, but 4.5" wide instead of 3.5" wide. The only thing that can be seen as a "down side" is the fact that the wheel has a different spoke design than the GS wheel. I highly doubt anyone would notice this, as the rear wheel is hidden by all sorts of things; sprocket, swing arm, chain guard, muffler, etc. Even if someone did notice, I highly doubt the wheel would look "out of place" to them. Everything I have read on the internet says that the "straight spoke" design wheel (like the Katana wheel) is much lighter than the "twisted spoke" design wheel (like the factory GS wheel). This is DEFFINATELY true, I'd say the difference is quite substantial. With the wider rubber I plan on using, the wheel/tire weight difference from the stock set-up should be nil, though more of the weight will be placed near the outer edge of the wheel...thus increasing rotational inertia. I highly doubt the difference in acceleration will be noticed.
My tire will be in around the end of next week, so look for an article on the swap in 2 weeks or so.
Thanks to everyone who helped and contributed in the last thread I started, it was greatly appreciated. Sorry for such a long post.
-Turd.
I was planning on doing this exact modification, but can't afford to drop the $200 on good tires plus the amount for the Kat wheel :(
Why do good tires cost so damn much?
Agree'd, good race tires are friggin expensive! I went with the Metzeler Sportec M-1. It got pretty good reviews back when it came out...but that was a few years ago. Not exactly new race technology...so therefore a 160/60ZR17 cost me $117 shipped from Motorcycle Superstore.
(http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcbeware/mcphotos/sportec3.jpg)
-Turd.
Yeah, but you need to get a front tire too, you can't run a radial rear with a bias-ply front.
Yes, I have the 110/70 on its way too.
Although...a bias-ply front and radial rear is considered a "no-no" but isn't a huge concern. A bias-ply rear and radial front is much more dangerous.
-Turd.
Alright, I take that comment back. After doing a little research on the net...every site seems to say the same thing. I found this at the Dunlop website:
"Bias and radial tires have significantly different dynamic properties. They deflect differently, create different cornering forces, have different damping characteristics, as well as other differences. In order for radial tires to be introduced into the two-wheel market, it was necessary to change certain characteristics of the motorcycle. The introduction of the radial tire led to such things as modified frames, new steering geometries and suspensions. Therefore, it is recommended that a motorcycle be used with the type of tire construction that it came with originally. If a change is to be made, then it should only be done if the motorcycle or tire manufacturer has approved the change. Above all, do not mix bias ply and radial tires on the same motorcycle unless it is with the approval of the motorcycle or tire manufacturer. "
-Turd.
As a note. the 1998+ katana and sv 650 share the same rear wheel.
Quote from: Turd Ferguson on March 28, 2006, 04:07:31 PM
.................... at the Dunlop website:.................."Above all, do not mix bias ply and radial tires on the same motorcycle unless it is with the approval of the motorcycle or tire manufacturer. "
Metzeler's current fitment for the new Bonneville is a bias ply ME33 front with a radial MEZ2 rear.
I'm currently considering a Lasertec front with a Road Attack rear next time arround w/o the approval of the motorcycle or tire manufacturer. :laugh:
Doubt if any of the 150/70 tires will fit the GS with a 4.5" wheel without altering the brake torque rod. They would be approx 10mm/.4" wider on the 4.5 wheel than on the standard 3.5" GS wheel. :cry:
All in all, this is at least a $250 mod with tires and wheel.
Yeah, I've spent $140 for the wheel/rotor in "perfect" condition, and $190 for tires. All of those totals include shipping. So I've spent $330, but I plan on selling my rear wheel, rotor and tire. They only have 1000 miles on them and are in perfect shape, so I'd hope to make back at least $100 for all of them.
-Turd.
Quote from: Turd Ferguson on March 28, 2006, 06:06:43 PM
Yeah, I've spent $140 for the wheel/rotor in "perfect" condition, and $190 for tires. All of those totals include shipping. So I've spent $330, but I plan on selling my rear wheel, rotor and tire. They only have 1000 miles on them and are in perfect shape, so I'd hope to make back at least $100 for all of them.
-Turd.
Hopefully, but unlikely. Most people probably don't want a GS rotor, but then again, you never know! Good luck!
:cheers: Great write-up Turd, I'll keep this in mind as a future mod! Thanks for the info! :cheers:
Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on March 28, 2006, 07:04:21 PM
Hopefully, but unlikely. Most people probably don't want a GS rotor, but then again, you never know! Good luck!
I figure I'd ebay it for $30-$40 as a cheaper alternative to a new rotor. It's only got 1000 miles on it and is perfect.
-Turd.
Quote from: Turd Ferguson on March 28, 2006, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on March 28, 2006, 07:04:21 PM
Hopefully, but unlikely. Most people probably don't want a GS rotor, but then again, you never know! Good luck!
I figure I'd ebay it for $30-$40 as a cheaper alternative to a new rotor. It's only got 1000 miles on it and is perfect.
-Turd.
Yeah. I's a shame it isn't the front rotor, as those are CRAZY expensive.
Quote from: Turd Ferguson on March 28, 2006, 03:25:20 PM
I will be writing a full "how-to" for this project once I am finished. This is just my first impressions...for those that care.
COol! :thumb:
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If you are planning on running a 150 rear tire, it doesn't look like any modifications will need to be done. The brake torque rod will be extremely close, as will the chain, but from my measurements a 150 tire should barely fit.
150 rears generally DO require the torque arm to be moved out of the way, either by fabbing a narrower one or beating the arm flatter at the right spot to clear the edge of the tire. But there is enough leeway in the GS's build tolerances that sometimes you can get away with it. Just make sure you check the tire/chain/torque arm interface each time you adjust your chain tension to make sure its not in contact.
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Overall, I am very surprised that all of the wheel swaps mentioned on this site have people using an old GSX-R rear wheel.
Old GSXR wheels are cheap and fairly plentiful on Ebay, along with GSX and GSF 600 ones, also common doners. They also have the same old "bent spoke" design as the OEM GS wheels.
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...I highly doubt the difference in acceleration will be noticed.
I doubt very much once all is done you will notice much of anything at all except what the bike looks like from behind. Even on the race track at what passes for a race pace for the GS, the 3.5 wheel with a good 140 or even 130 tire is more than sticky enough. You are also going to have to play with your geometry and suspension settings to compensate for the wider tire too. Its alot of work/expense for minimal return. A good shock and fork work make a bigger difference.
I'm not trying to shoot you down. It looks like a very cool project and I've done similar. Now you need a late model Kat's front wheel to go with the back one.
;)
Quote from: Simba on March 28, 2006, 04:48:55 PM
As a note. the 1998+ katana and sv 650 share the same rear wheel.
True but they use different axles so the ID of the bearings are different, the SV is larger.
did not know. thanks
i just checked the wheel part numbers.
atlest bearings are easy to get a hold of
I have put this link up before but I will do it again for the benefit of all the wheel and bearing swappers who may find it helpful. If the size you need is not listed in the specifications dont waste time trying to find one..........because they dont exist.
http://www.midlandbearings.com/Popular%20metric.htm
Did you finish the swap? I've been searching through your posts for an update but I havent found one yet...
Thanks
Oops, sorry! Should have given an update. Here is the link to the FAQ article I created.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=25426.0
-Turd.