An accident that happend in FLA in March of 06 not sure if it's a repost
http://www.wftv.com/news/8287241/detail.html
f'ing stupid
Quote from: ajgs500 on April 04, 2006, 03:30:19 PM
f'ing stupid
Thats nutty a hundred plus fresh out the box, No tags, No license and no helmet. Thats bananas.
"A bill before the Florida House of Representatives could have prevented the accident. The proposed legislation would require safety training and proof of endorsement before a motorcycle can be purchased or registered."
This is a start. Can't see how it would hurt and wonder why it's not a common law. I was amazed last weekend to find out I was able to buy a new bike AND get insurance without having a license in CA. Ridiculous.
thats crazy.
i took my MSF course in 2004 and just got my first bike this year and didnt get on it till i had helmet, leather gloves, leather jacket, sidi boots, and back protector. all im missing is pants.
but i would never ride a bike without all proper cautions mainly cuz i dont want to end up like this lady...
What is wrong with Central FL lately. A kid recently missed a curve. He'd been clocked a minute or two earler by the cops (they didn't chase him) at over 160.
I took the MSF. I don't ride like an idiot. Score one for Darwin?
Hopefully there will be one less stupid person on this planet... And a couple more stupid people learn from her mistake...
I know that's harsh, but people only learn from disasters... :cry:
Quote from: annguyen1981 on April 04, 2006, 08:02:24 PM
Hopefully there will be one less stupid person on this planet... And a couple more stupid people learn from her mistake...
I know that's harsh, but people only learn from disasters... :cry:
I agree. I don't feel sorry for people who make obviously stupid decisions. Heartless, maybe, but the whole survival of the fittest thing needs to play out some more.
the they try to sue the manufacturer of motorcycle etc etc etc. :mad:
I totally think everyone should start out on a liter bike going 100+ with no gear...
Oh, Lord....falling off a motorcycle at a high rate of speed without a helmet..... :o
Anyone who's experienced the horror of falling off his speeding bike with a helmet on knows that this poor girl needs all the prayers and well-wishes we can muster. :cry: :cry: :cry:
Well you know that brain injuries are sooooooooooo cool!!!!!
C'mon... She couldn't have started out very smart. I doubt anyone will notice.
OK... That was rude... I'm just a jerk.
Quote from: Gisser on April 04, 2006, 11:25:25 PM
Oh, Lord....falling off a motorcycle at a high rate of speed without a helmet..... :o
Anyone who's experienced the horror of falling off his speeding bike with a helmet on knows that this poor girl needs all the prayers and well-wishes we can muster. :cry: :cry: :cry:
Yeah. I don't even remember what happened. Better than the back of my skull being scattered about on the ground though. That's what would have happened had I not been wearing my helmet.
Quote from: RVertigo on April 04, 2006, 11:42:28 PM
C'mon... She couldn't have started out very smart. I doubt anyone will notice.
Word.
Quote from: RVertigo on April 04, 2006, 11:42:28 PM
C'mon... She couldn't have started out very smart. I doubt anyone will notice.
OK... That was rude... I'm just a jerk.
Well I was thinking the same thing.......
devil's advocate--- she coulda just been ...... nope just a dumbass. how do you feel sorry for something like this?
You feel sorry for the family she leaves behind if she dies. I mean, chances are that they're just as dumb, and have to live with it.
sounds like a bad situation. hopefully she gets through it.
the thing I don't get about the "must be stupid, therefore must deserve it" attitude - is that it's totally unrealstic for everyone to live by that very expectation or code of ethic, including the people who advocate it. i mean - ask yourself how many stupid decisions we've done ourselves, or how many stupid decisions people in our lives we care about have done - if this attitutude was consistent and everyone lived by it - then we would all willing accept our own or loved ones dealths for having made a stupid decision?
who really lives that belief, anyone? sounds like one of those rules we expect of everyone else except for self. those ones will always hold no water at the end of the day...
My stepfather (of over 20 years) made an even stupider decision. He put a .38 to his head and pulled the trigger. Sure, it pissed me off, and made me upset, and I still miss him, especially when doing anything mechanical (often with his tools), but I've accepted it. He just became a grandfather Friday, and I honestly didn't even realize it until just now. I was focused on my mom and sister, not him. I don't feel sorry for him, except he's missing out on all the fun with my new bike. :)
Ok but we have varying levels of stupid here...... it is one thing to be on your skateboard and try to grind a rail that is beyond your abitiliy or to high or whatever...... it is another thing to get on a freaking litre bike, with little to no experience, no helmet or gear, and go a freaking 100 mph. Is it sad yes. Preventable hell yes!!! When things happen to you/ your loved ones that you have no control over that is one thing but this was entirely preventable.
And I have never made a decision that stupid!!!!!!!
I have to agree with AJ on this one.
STUPID is as STUPID does. If I take my life and throw it away so stupidly, Please thrash my good name cause I really suck.
There are varying levels of stupidness for sure – but under who’s discretion is it to make that call – you, me? What gives us the right and would we all be cool with someone else judging us? Right.
If that were my daughter, wife, sister, mom or whatever, would I think they made a stupid decision and could they have used more common sense – absolutely. Would I think they deserved that much physical harm as a result – not so much.
By your own rule sets - good luck on your own judgment days…
Isnt Darwinisn cool???? Point being she is in the hospital and I am sitting here at work. I obviously have enough sense in me to not do something like that. Do people judge everyone all the time- yes!!! This isnt heaven or some utopia. This is the real world with real world decisions and real world consequences. Some people survive some dont.
oh gosh...I never meant to imply she deserved what happened to her. by any means.
BAD KARMA and all. Just sad to think some people would even attempt such a thing. she had all kinds of warning signs.
no helmet. unfamiliar bike. no helmet. lotsa speed and no helmet. especially on an unfamiliar bike.
Man I feel uncomfortable at regular speeds on someone elses bike.
It's hard not to be judgemental on this one. even sympathetic. SHe had to have known better.
but I believe no one deserves the injuries. ever.
It's like this...
If you point a BB gun at your hand and end up at the hospital to get the BB removed, you're stupid (I know someone that did this).
If you intentionally light yourself on fire, you're stupid (check ebaum (http://www.ebaumsworld.com) for videos of people doing this).
If you jump in an alligator pit wearing dead chickens, you're stupid.
If you walk across the freeway and get hit by a car, you're stupid.
If you eat clearly rotten food and you get sick, you're stupid.
If you jump on a motorcycle without knowing how to ride and proceed to ride 100 MPH without any protective gear, you're stupid.
Do you see a trend forming here?
I once ate leftover chinese food that went bad overnight (last summer). it tasted good, but it sent me to the hospital for 2 days (food poisoning). it was fun vomiting for 9 hours straight 8)
to be honest, I don't feel sorry for the girl... but I don't feel happy, or angry for he desicion. in fact, what I feel is NOTHING.
she made a choice, now she's living with the consequences, and nothing I say or feel will change what happened to her.
Quote from: subc on April 05, 2006, 04:42:49 PMI once ate leftover chinese food that went bad overnight (last summer). it tasted good, but it sent me to the hospital for 2 days (food poisoning). it was fun vomiting for 9 hours straight 8)
I've had food poisoning like that twice...
The last time was recently... I actually started getting sick while playing a show in Bremerton... About an hour and a half drive.
I literally walk off stage and ran to the bathroom... I puked behind the place 3 times... Luckily my friend was there to drive back to Seattle, 'cause I puked three more times on the way home... Puked about 5 more times at home, then it started coming out the other end... Then both at once...
I was down for three days... WORST!
The time before was about the same, but I got sick on my way home... I parked at home, opened the door, and LOST it... I was so sick that I actually lost a day... I don't remember it at all... Probably better that way.
But, what I meant was... Your chicken is green and you eat it anyway. :cookoo:
This thread started to touch on legislation issues early on and then started more towards the human interest side of things. I am, however, interested to see where most stand on the idea of legislating personal decisions? Now certain things like actually requiring insurance/licence to purchase a car/cycle just makes sense. I wonder if I could (if i ever had enough cash) go out and purchase a Leer Jet without any know how etc... but I digress.
When we start to get into personal decisions such as: should I wear a helmet today? or do I feel like being safe and taking the MSF course? I have a very strong opinion that the answer to these and other questions should be left entirely in the hands of those responsible for the consequences of their actions. I hate to see our governement taking away any rights as stupid as they may be. Part of freedom to me is being able to make the bad decision if I want. To be stubborn and believe that I am capable of learning on my own without some stupid class that could cost me some dough or to drive my auto without a seatbelt just because I like living on the edge.
Instead what we've ended up with (here in CA at least) is a gov't that says like a mother "sorry son, but we know best." And bam, my choice is gone, someone's already decided for me.
Now, I know I'm ranting, but this kind of stuff makes me mad :mad:. Also understand this comes from someone who wouldn't put a leg over a cycle until I had my MSF course completed - wouldn't purchase a cycle until I had my license and insurance in hand - and never goes out under any conditions without boots, armored jacket, full face helmet, and mc gloves (I do wear pants, but i figure denim isn't a safety point).
Safety laws are all over the place... Some are good, like the ones that protect us from corporations and other people trying to kill us.
The ones that are protecting us from ourselves should never have been made into law. If someone wants to be an idiot and kill themselves, that's their right... But, it doesn't make them any less stupid.
Quote from: RVertigo on April 06, 2006, 10:51:42 AM
Safety laws are all over the place... Some are good, like the ones that protect us from corporations and other people trying to kill us.
The ones that are protecting us from ourselves should never have been made into law. If someone wants to be an idiot and kill themselves, that's their right... But, it doesn't make them any less stupid.
what a grey area. If you really think about it. It IS illegal to kill yourself.
I believe you have every right to be an idiot but, don't you think the government has the OBLIGATION to protects its citizens from themselves, at least in extreme cases, such as Helmet laws, speed laws, Laws against hard drug abuse (THC is not a drug)?
Well, I for one don't think it should be illegal to kill yourself. But that's a whole other conversation.
I don't see why the government has an obligation to protect us from ourselves. It's not like I ever asked them too. I have mixed feelings on things like helmet and seatbelt laws. I, for one, would never drive without a seatbelt, or ride without full gear. But I understand that other people don't want to wear a seatbelt or a helmet or whatever, and I think they should have that right. However, when they end up hurting themselves, a lot of the costs come back to us taxpayers, which isn't fair. I shouldn't have to subsidize someone elses poor choices. Texas is a good starting point. You must wear a helmet, unless you carry a certain ammount of health insurance.
And I think the rules change when it comes to minors, who may not be informed enough to make smart children. I often see people driving with their kids unbelted and crawling all over the back seat, which I think is tantamount to child abuse.
Quote from: aaronstj on April 06, 2006, 11:33:22 AM
And I think the rules change when it comes to minors, who may not be informed enough to make smart children.
thats funny.
like i said what a grey area.
"what right does the government have to tell me what to do, and why didn't they pass a helmet law to protect my children"
not to get political, but it sounds very Democratic to me.
give but don't take.
Quote from: 3imo on April 06, 2006, 11:27:09 AM
what a grey area. If you really think about it. It IS illegal to kill yourself...
:laugh: man you really write some funny stuff. I can't wait for a ticket or a citation the day I kill myself... because after all, I will be doing something illegal :laugh:
Quote from: 3imo on April 06, 2006, 11:49:56 AM
Quote from: aaronstj on April 06, 2006, 11:33:22 AM
And I think the rules change when it comes to minors, who may not be informed enough to make smart children.
thats funny.
D'oh. Decisions.
And, yes, I am very much a democrat. I think it should be ok for people to make stupid, harmful decisions when they can only harm themselves. That's the freedom is about. But freedom must be tempered with wisdom, which children don't have.
Quote from: aaronstj on April 06, 2006, 11:33:22 AM
Texas is a good starting point. You must wear a helmet, unless you carry a certain ammount of health insurance.
No one follows that though. Most don't even carry insurance.
Yeah, well, that's the trick.
Quote from: aaronstj on April 06, 2006, 11:33:22 AM
That's the freedom is about. But freedom must be tempered with wisdom
I never heard it put that way. makes ya think.
I like the way this has sparked a real debate of sorts. It is a tough issue to grapple with regardless of where you stand politically.
Technically speaking it isn't illegal to kill yourself. To my understanding there isn't any law enacted that makes suicide a crime (and thereby tried in criminal court - defendant: a corpse?) What is illegal, strangely enough, is if you ATTEMPT to kill yourself and aren't quite successful. Then you become a danger to yourself and are subject to loss of your freedom due to psychological reasons. Kind of a trip when you think about some of the loopholes there are to remove some of our most basic freedoms "for our own good."
I just don't like the precident it sets to have things dictated to me, even something as simple as a seatbelt. The biggest kick in the pants comes when you see a finger being shaken in your face by big brother about one thing or another as though it is morally right because they say so. I am ever confused as to why there is this need to dictate morality as well as personal safety.
::maybe slightly off topic but relevant i think::
Has anyone ever wondered why cigarettes are 'ok' and alcohol is 'ok' but somehow there is justification for marijuana to be the devil?or why prostitution is something to be fought? Now these type issues are much more of a blur, because you get into public health among other issues. But really, aren't cigs around because they can tax the tar out of them? and alcohol much the same? Where does the line get drawn between 'let me live my own life' and 'please save me from myself, i just don't know any better?'
Quote from: EMTkid on April 07, 2006, 10:38:49 AM
But really, aren't cigs around because they can tax the tar out of them? and alcohol much the same?
This is exactly why. That, and the alcohol and tobacco lobbies have a lot more money.
reefer 8)
This is an interesting debate. But safety laws are all around you. Check out your car. The car itself has many devices and design decisions (forced by laws) to protect you. Inside the car the most visible one is the seat belt. Which most states now require you to wear. If you choose not to. You can and will be fined for it.
So why do bike riders feel exempt? Here in Pennsylvania we had a helmet law. Which to me is more a case of just stoping people from killing themselves. Thousand and thousands of Harley, Sportbike riders ect pushed to get it overthrown and its now gone. So what do I read at least once a week in my local paper? Another rider whos splattered themselves onto a curb. Another one that would have had a much better chance had they at least been wearing a helmet. But because both the Harley and Gixxer's feel they are above this. They are now allowed to kill themselves at will, and a lot of times their passengers go with them. Is this something that the government should regulate? Well you have two sides of it. They can make us wear helmets or they can put rollcages on the bikes (check out the BMW C1 for a bike that doesnt need a helmeted rider). Which would you prefer? And if you say theres the third option of just not regulating it. Because its a freedom of choice issue. Then why should someone be forced wear a seatbelt?
Especially in the age of the SUV and cell phone. Its just to darned dangerous to go out there unprotected. And this coming from someone who thinks, like an idiot, that my leather police jacket, leather gloves and non-full face helmet are enough. But this attitude is changing trust me. I just dont trust the other drivers anymore.
As for the MSF course. In some states the MSF teachers, not here in PA though, are able to stamp your permit at the end of the course to make it into a license. Honestly Id like to see it that way here. Because I took the MSF class before buying my first bike and it helped me. I think its helped me when i drive my car as well. Because i'm watching things far closer then I was before the training.
HA!!! what a dumbass. I've taken to the basic and advanced courses and still learn something everyday. Its people like that that give us a bad name.
Quote from: fodder650 on April 08, 2006, 09:12:36 AM
This is an interesting debate. But safety laws are all around you. Check out your car. The car itself has many devices and design decisions (forced by laws) to protect you. Inside the car the most visible one is the seat belt. Which most states now require you to wear. If you choose not to. You can and will be fined for it.
So why do bike riders feel exempt?
I believe most anti-helmet law people are also anti-seatbelt law.
I have two children. I would FORCE them to wear a seatbelt for as long as I can. I am glad that there are laws that might force them to after they are grown and I am unable to tell them what to do. Same for a helmet.
heres a story for ya...
-------------
I was anti seatbelt in highschool, ya know, "stickin it" to the man. when I joined the army I was a bit more weary of getting a ticket so I reluctantly wore my seatbelt on post.
ON POST only!
Well one day I put on the seatbelt, before I got to post which was out of character for me at the time. It was definitely not a habit.
That day I ran off the road on my way to Post in Grafenwhor Germany, at over 100mph. into a wooded area. the car (99 chrys sebring) side swiped a very large pine tree. the tree ended up my back seat passenger, directly behind me.
Long story short. I almost died. 4 broken ribs, a collapsed lung, severe concussion and ruptured spleen. the medivac helicopter took too long, I was bleeding internally, they didn't think I'd make it.
the seat belt pulled tight at the point of impact. keeping me from being completely crushed on my left side.
It saved my life. Now I wear my seatbelt everyday and insist everyone else does as well.
The LAW is not meant to take your freedom away. IT is a direct result of THOUSANDS of wrecks and thousands of lives lost. Probably pushed into law by the families of those who know that their lost loved ones would still be here today if the law was in place.
Quote from: 3imo on April 10, 2006, 06:41:41 AM
I have two children. I would FORCE them to wear a seatbelt for as long as I can. I am glad that there are laws that might force them to after they are grown and I am unable to tell them what to do. Same for a helmet.
heres a story for ya...
-------------
I was anti seatbelt in highschool, ya know, "stickin it" to the man. when I joined the army I was a bit more weary of getting a ticket so I reluctantly wore my seatbelt on post.
ON POST only!
Well one day I put on the seatbelt, before I got to post which was out of character for me at the time. It was definitely not a habit.
That day I ran off the road on my way to Post in Grafenwhor Germany, at over 100mph. into a wooded area. the car (99 chrys sebring) side swiped a very large pine tree. the tree ended up my back seat passenger, directly behind me.
Long story short. I almost died. 4 broken ribs, a collapsed lung, severe concussion and ruptured spleen. the medivac helicopter took too long, I was bleeding internally, they didn't think I'd make it.
the seat belt pulled tight at the point of impact. keeping me from being completely crushed on my left side.
It saved my life. Now I wear my seatbelt everyday and insist everyone else does as well.
The LAW is not meant to take your freedom away. IT is a direct result of THOUSANDS of wrecks and thousands of lives lost. Probably pushed into law by the families of those who know that their lost loved ones would still be here today if the law was in place.
As you've said before, you're not an ATGATT type of person. Is it going to take a similar experience on a motorcycle to change that attitude as well?
ATGATT??
All The Gear, All The Time
I do ride with most of my gear most of the time.
helmet always
jacket. in two yrs maybe total 20miles jacketless.
pants at least jeans always.
gloves always.
on that thread I was upset about people judgeing others based on looks.
I was trying to make my point.
when I first started riding. I only had a helmet. I didn't know anyone who owned a bike. Had there been a law about a jacket I would have worn one.
I bought my first jacket after my first wreck in which I lost a chunk of flesh off each elbow and knee.
I was wearing a helmet and a button up shirt and kahki pants.
SO I guess YEAH.. It took a similar experience on a bike.