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Main Area => Odds n Ends => Topic started by: koganti on April 10, 2006, 02:17:35 PM

Title: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: koganti on April 10, 2006, 02:17:35 PM
Here in NJ on my way to work on the turnpike I see a few bikes lanes- splitting when the traffic backs up.  Here in NJ this is still not legal.   I saw one guy splitting then a few minutes later a LEO was traveling with lights on in the shoulder, I guess he was trying to catch him.  This guy I have seen before going 100+ before so I am sure that was the reason for the chase.

I am going to switch to my bike for the rest of the summer for my commute (130 Miles a day).

My question is have any of you ever got caught lane-splitting outside of CA?

If so how was the ticket written up as?

What was the fine?

Is there a difference riding the median/shoulder in the terms of the fine and points? 
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: 3imo on April 10, 2006, 02:19:37 PM
be very careful dude.  :o
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: koganti on April 10, 2006, 02:57:15 PM
I will be safe, spent $800 on gear.

When I was in school in INDIA I used to ride my Yamaha RX100 80KM from my village to the city.  There I would have to look out for on coming head on Trucks , Cars; its like playing chicken with a semi.  Plus you have people on cycles the ride into the road not looking at traffic.

Also do not forget the Goats, Chickens, Bulls and the occasional MAD group of people blocking the highway for some reason.

Yes my bike had lots of Mods, Bike comes with 4 gears (for India only) I added the 5th gear. Up graded the power from a 6V to a 12V system and had a 100W head light. Bike cost me US $1000.00 I spent another $400 on mods.

Now that was FUN!.

But I still feel safer riding there then I do here.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 03:01:46 PM
Ever see what $800 worth of gear looks like after it's run under a semi tractor?:rolleyes:

Oh, and just so you know, it doesn't matter where you get caught lane-splitting.  It's not legal anywhere in the States.  It likely never will be.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: RVertigo on April 10, 2006, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 03:01:46 PMIt's not legal anywhere in the States.  It likely never will be.
Uh...  CA.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 03:34:38 PM
Quote from: RVertigo on April 10, 2006, 03:33:37 PMUh...  CA.

Uh... no.  Not there, either.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: EMTkid on April 10, 2006, 03:35:06 PM
Lane splitting is very legal in at least a few states. Here in CA its legal to share a lane as long as it is "safe and prudent" to do so. My MSF instructor explained that to mean that if anything happens regardless of fault, its the MC riders issue because it was clearly either not safe or prudent to make that lane split. I've heard of other states where it is legal, but very poorlly tolerated by other motorists. Here in CA its a common practice and is fairly well accepted by the cagers.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 03:39:13 PM
Quote from: EMTkid on April 10, 2006, 03:35:06 PM
Lane splitting is very legal in at least a few states. Here in CA its legal to share a lane as long as it is "safe and prudent" to do so. My MSF instructor explained that to mean that if anything happens regardless of fault, its the MC riders issue because it was clearly either not safe or prudent to make that lane split. I've heard of other states where it is legal, but very poorlly tolerated by other motorists. Here in CA its a common practice and is fairly well accepted by the cagers.

It is NOT legal to pass between cars in California...you can not legally share a lane with a car in any state.

Read up...

http://www.laneshare.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: RVertigo on April 10, 2006, 03:39:21 PM
Quote from: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 03:34:38 PM
Quote from: RVertigo on April 10, 2006, 03:33:37 PMUh...  CA.
Uh... no.  Not there, either.
 :laugh:  Oh right.. I forgot... You're right about everything.   :thumb:

Totally not legal.   :laugh:
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 03:40:51 PM
Quote from: RVertigo on April 10, 2006, 03:39:21 PM
You're right about everything.

Unfortunately, yes.  I suggest you do some reading, as well.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: RVertigo on April 10, 2006, 03:42:41 PM
Quote from: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 03:40:51 PM
Quote from: RVertigo on April 10, 2006, 03:39:21 PMYou're right about everything.
Unfortunately, yes.  I suggest you do some reading, as well.
You're pretty funny...

So... There's no law saying it's illegal... Therefore it's legal.  Kinda like there's no law saying that eating ham is illegal, therefore it's legal.  There doesn't have to be a law stating that something is legal.

There is a law stating that it is illegal to lane split/share in WA.

But, you already knew that...  'cause you're right about everything.  :thumb:
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: EMTkid on April 10, 2006, 03:48:42 PM
Here's the text (verbatim) from the CHP's site: "Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible under California law but must done in a "safe and prudent manner." The text used to also include "The motorcycle should be traveling no more than 10 mph faster than surrounding traffic (without exceeding the speed limit) and not come close enough to that traffic to cause a collision." but has since been removed. Perhaps they wanted to give cops more latitude to interpret what they thought was safe so they removed it.
     Lane splitting on surface streets is probably not addressed in city or county laws so I would do this with caution, as individual cops will decide whether or not they like what they see.
     You can also find more on lane-splitting in the DMV Motorcycle handbook (see page 20 in the handbook). 
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: RVertigo on April 10, 2006, 03:50:44 PM
You can also find it right on the page that Mak posted... 
QuoteLane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner.
More here:    http://www.laneshare.com/content/view/24/34/
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 04:02:10 PM
Quote from: RVertigo on April 10, 2006, 03:42:41 PM
You're pretty funny...

California vehicular code makes no mention of motorcycles sharing lanes, that I've found.  California vehicular code does make several mentions of "vehicles" sharing lanes...if you catch an officer and a judge who want to push the law, they can...either through that or with a charge of wreckless endangerment they can get you if they want.

Also, not having provisions ragarding the practice does not mean it's legal...you might also look at the definition of "permissable".  Jay-walking is permissable...still illegal.

Quote from: EMTkid on April 10, 2006, 03:48:42 PM
You can also find more on lane-splitting in the DMV Motorcycle handbook (see page 20 in the handbook).

Did you get "pg 20" from the chp's site?  Because page 20 covers clothing, lighting and signals.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: My Name Is Dave on April 10, 2006, 04:07:38 PM
I'm not sure everyone's on the same page here. Or maybe I'm just way off. But I feel like some people are talking about lane sharing (two bikes staggered in one lane) and lane splitting (a motorcycle going between two cars when traffic is slower than the posted limit). I may be way off in these interpretations though. I usually am.

But sharing is usually legal as far as I know, while splitting is generally illegal. I think.

Please don't kill me if I'm way off...
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: RVertigo on April 10, 2006, 04:12:52 PM
Quote from: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 04:02:10 PMJay-walking is permissable...still illegal.

I suggest you do some reading, as well.  Here's a site for you to check out...  Maybe you've seen it before:

http://www.laneshare.com/content/view/24/34/

QuoteCalifornia code 22350
No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.

California code 21658
Whenever any roadway has been divided into two or more clearly marked lanes for traffic in one direction, the following rules apply:
   (a) A vehicle shall be driven as nearly as practical entirely within a single lane and shall not be moved from the lane until such movement can be made with reasonable safety.
   (b) Official signs may be erected directing slow-moving traffic to use a designated lane or allocating specified lanes to traffic moving in the same direction, and drivers of vehicles shall obey the directions of the traffic device.

California code 22107
No person shall turn a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left upon a roadway until such movement can be made with reasonable safety and then only after the giving of an appropriate signal in the manner provided in this chapter in the event any other vehicle may be affected by the movement.


Hmm... Crazy...  Something else from the same page: 
QuoteCan motorcycle riders "split" lanes and ride between other vehicles?


Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner.

In Washington it's very different...  It's illegal here.  See:

QuoteRCW 46.61.608
Operating motorcycles on roadways laned for traffic.


(1) All motorcycles are entitled to full use of a lane and no motor vehicle shall be driven in such a manner as to deprive any motorcycle of the full use of a lane. This subsection shall not apply to motorcycles operated two abreast in a single lane.

     (2) The operator of a motorcycle shall not overtake and pass in the same lane occupied by the vehicle being overtaken.

     (3) No person shall operate a motorcycle between lanes of traffic or between adjacent lines or rows of vehicles.

     (4) Motorcycles shall not be operated more than two abreast in a single lane.

     (5) Subsections (2) and (3) of this section shall not apply to police officers in the performance of their official duties.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 04:16:52 PM
...the california quotes and the washington quotes are pretty similar...yet it's legal in Cali but not in Washington? :dunno_white: :cookoo:

(well...the WA quote is a bit more clear cut...)

Quote from: RVertigo on April 10, 2006, 04:12:52 PM
Quote from: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 04:02:10 PMJay-walking is permissable...still illegal.

I suggest you do some reading, as well.  Here's a site for you to check out...  Maybe you've seen it before:

http://www.laneshare.com/content/view/24/34/

QuoteCalifornia code 22350
No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.

California code 21658
Whenever any roadway has been divided into two or more clearly marked lanes for traffic in one direction, the following rules apply:
   (a) A vehicle shall be driven as nearly as practical entirely within a single lane and shall not be moved from the lane until such movement can be made with reasonable safety.
   (b) Official signs may be erected directing slow-moving traffic to use a designated lane or allocating specified lanes to traffic moving in the same direction, and drivers of vehicles shall obey the directions of the traffic device.

California code 22107
No person shall turn a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left upon a roadway until such movement can be made with reasonable safety and then only after the giving of an appropriate signal in the manner provided in this chapter in the event any other vehicle may be affected by the movement.


Hmm... Crazy...  Something else from the same page: 
QuoteCan motorcycle riders "split" lanes and ride between other vehicles?


Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner.

In Washington it's very different...  It's illegal here.  See:

QuoteRCW 46.61.608
Operating motorcycles on roadways laned for traffic.


(1) All motorcycles are entitled to full use of a lane and no motor vehicle shall be driven in such a manner as to deprive any motorcycle of the full use of a lane. This subsection shall not apply to motorcycles operated two abreast in a single lane.

     (2) The operator of a motorcycle shall not overtake and pass in the same lane occupied by the vehicle being overtaken.

     (3) No person shall operate a motorcycle between lanes of traffic or between adjacent lines or rows of vehicles.

     (4) Motorcycles shall not be operated more than two abreast in a single lane.

     (5) Subsections (2) and (3) of this section shall not apply to police officers in the performance of their official duties.

At any rate...it's not legal in California.  No provisions regarding it.  Each situation will be judged by the propper authoraties as to where it was appropriate action or not.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: pandy on April 10, 2006, 04:17:27 PM
I live in Cali; lane-sharing is legal here.  :thumb:

Here's a response from one of the bay area's LEO's posting on BARF:

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=154980&highlight=lanesharing
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: ajgs500 on April 10, 2006, 04:21:42 PM
Is the pissing match over yet???
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: Bluebellylint on April 10, 2006, 05:21:02 PM
So can anyone answer the original question :laugh:

Quote from: koganti on April 10, 2006, 02:17:35 PM
My question is have any of you ever got caught lane-splitting outside of CA?

If so how was the ticket written up as?

What was the fine?

Is there a difference riding the median/shoulder in the terms of the fine and points? 

Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: aaronstj on April 10, 2006, 05:27:30 PM
Mak, you're a tard.  The California code is pretty clear on this.  As a motor vehicle, you're not supossed to straddle more than one lane, but it says nothing about sharing a lane.  And having two wheel, it's pretty hard to straddle a lane.  Is there some reason you disagree with the CHP, or is it just because you insist on being right (which you aren't)?

Jaywalking certainly isn't permissible.  Most people find it permissible, but that permisison isn't their's to five.  In this context, permissible and illegal are antonyms. 

Furthermore, the idea that there's "no provisions" for it is rediculous.  There's no provisions for me to sit around and play Gamecube games all day in the law, but it certainly isn't illegal.  The idea that if something isn't specifically prohibited it's than it's legal isn't just common sense, it's a well respected part of common law, and specifically spelled out in the Tenth amendment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution).

Until you can cite code saying lane sharing is legal, you might as well sotp arguing.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 05:37:06 PM
Quote from: aaronstj on April 10, 2006, 05:27:30 PM
Mak, you're a tard.

:icon_rolleyes:

CHP doesn't make the laws.  California's DMV says two motorcycles may share a lane, but a motorcycle and a vehicle with three or more wheels may NOT occupy the same lane...

Quote...permissible and illegal are antonyms.

"Permissible" and "legal" certainly aren't synonomous.

QuoteUntil you can cite code saying lane sharing is legal, you might as well sotp arguing.

I NEVER said it was legal.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: aaronstj on April 10, 2006, 05:41:17 PM
Sorry, I meant to say illegal.  Either quote line and verse, or stop blabbering.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 05:49:37 PM
Quote from: aaronstj on April 10, 2006, 05:41:17 PM
Either quote line and verse, or stop blabbering.

Find me something better than EMTkid's quote from ducatigirl.com saying it IS supported by California law...which that quote is actually not in verbatim (CHP says they find lane-splitting in propper circumstances permissable [determined by officer, not law]...not that it's legal...I bet they don't ticket everyone who fails to use a turn signal, either).
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: ajgs500 on April 10, 2006, 05:55:26 PM
So I was just wondering if Mak only argues with people from Seattle??? :dunno_white: :dunno_white: :dunno_white:
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: aaronstj on April 10, 2006, 05:59:29 PM
Quote from: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 05:49:37 PM
Quote from: aaronstj on April 10, 2006, 05:41:17 PM
Either quote line and verse, or stop blabbering.
Find me something better than EMTkid's quote from ducatigirl.com saying it IS supported by California law...which that quote is actually not in verbatim (CHP says they find lane-splitting in propper circumstances permissable [determined by officer, not law]...not that it's legal...I bet they don't ticket everyone who fails to use a turn signal, either).
The point is, I DON'T HAVE to find textual support for my position.  Unless specifically prohibited, lane splitting is legal.  So is anything.  If you can't quote law, you're wrong.  There's no such onus on me.  Or are you going to tell me it's illegal to stand on one foot, since I can't find a law saying it's legal?
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 06:55:19 PM
Quote from: aaronstj on April 10, 2006, 05:59:29 PM
The point is, I DON'T HAVE to find textual support for my position.  Unless specifically prohibited, lane splitting is legal.  So is anything.  If you can't quote law, you're wrong.  There's no such onus on me.  Or are you going to tell me it's illegal to stand on one foot, since I can't find a law saying it's legal?

I have to prove my position, but you don't have to prove yours? wow

The best you guys can come up with are technicallities...the only reason anyone in California, or anywhere else, gets away with it is because the authoraties don't always care.  At the moment, in the states that do not clearly prohibit it, it is up to the officer to decide whether the action was appropriate or not.  Without clear guidlines as to what's legal and what propper proceedure is, they can be ticketed for any reason related to the act.  That's how it is...that's all there is...
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: ajgs500 on April 10, 2006, 06:58:43 PM
ok how about legal until proven illegal???
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: calamari on April 10, 2006, 07:05:37 PM
tomorrow i'm calling CHP office and DMV to ask about this. my question will be: "hi, I ride a motorcycle and I was wondering if I can split lanes to pass vehicles while staying under speed limit..."

btw, is not the dmv who stops you on the streets of cali, but the patrols cars.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: Egaeus on April 10, 2006, 07:07:11 PM
Quote from: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 06:55:19 PM
Quote from: aaronstj on April 10, 2006, 05:59:29 PM
The point is, I DON'T HAVE to find textual support for my position.  Unless specifically prohibited, lane splitting is legal.  So is anything.  If you can't quote law, you're wrong.  There's no such onus on me.  Or are you going to tell me it's illegal to stand on one foot, since I can't find a law saying it's legal?

I have to prove my position, but you don't have to prove yours? wow

The best you guys can come up with are technicallities...the only reason anyone in California, or anywhere else, gets away with it is because the authoraties don't always care.  At the moment, in the states that do not clearly prohibit it, it is up to the officer to decide whether the action was appropriate or not.  Without clear guidlines as to what's legal and what propper proceedure is, they can be ticketed for any reason related to the act.  That's how it is...that's all there is...

The concept is "burden of proof."  The burden of proof is on the person claiming the existence of something, whether it be god, ghosts, or a law prohibiting lane splitting.  Lane splitting, when done reasonably and safely (and therefore not meeting the threshold of reckless driving), is AFAIK not prohibited by California law.  If you know of a law prohibiting such, which flies in the face of all evidence to the contrary, then you must show it to be taken seriously.  
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 07:10:51 PM
Quote from: Egaeus on April 10, 2006, 07:07:11 PM
The concept is "burden of proof."  The burden of proof is on the person claiming the existence of something, whether it be god, ghosts, or a law prohibiting lane splitting.  Lane splitting, when done reasonably and safely (and therefore not meeting the threshold of reckless driving), is AFAIK not prohibited by California law.  If you know of a law prohibiting such, which flies in the face of all evidence to the contrary, then you must show it to be taken seriously.  

The "proof" has been provided by the very people trying to convince us that it's legal.  All they've done is simply point out that the state of California makes no provisions for or against lane-splitting...which means that it's 100% up the witnessing officer's judgement as to whether it was an appropriate act or not.  You could pass between cars, travelling 10mph under the speed limit, 5ft of room on either side and an officer could still ticket you for wreckless driving and the charge would stand.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: Egaeus on April 10, 2006, 07:17:39 PM
There has to be a law prohibiting something.  The law doesn't address everything that is legal, but rather what is not.  Is it legal to shave before I shower?  What about after?  Is it legal to crumple TP, or do I have to fold?  There are no laws addressing this.

Sure, lane splitting can be ticketed as reckless driving.  However, there are a lot of things that are legal that can be ticketed as reckless driving.  Changing lanes, cornering, accelerating, etc.  Your argument is weak, and you just won't admit it.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: ajgs500 on April 10, 2006, 07:17:48 PM
Exactly but there is no provision that clearly states lane splitting is ILLEGAL.  So you would never get a ticket with the infraction of "lane splitting" only reckless driving.  So thus lane splitting is not illegal, reckless driving is illegal.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: oramac on April 10, 2006, 07:18:36 PM
I can't figure out why Mak is so determined to prove everyone wrong.  Look, people drink coffee and drive, but theres no law for it so it must not be 'legal'.  I wear sunglasses under my helmet.  There's no law approving it, so it must not be 'legal'.
For that matter, there's no law to mandate acceleration that I know of, so every time I accelerate, I guess it's not 'legal'.   :icon_rolleyes:

Mak, you're arguing a moot point, and what's worse is that everyone else is arguing with you over semantics.  Suffice it to say, and I think everyone can agree, it is NOT ILLEGAL to lane split in California provided the language of the law is followed.

Now, let's not argue about stupit shite!  Let's argue about subjects of substance...
Less filling...tastes great?  :cheers:
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: aaronstj on April 10, 2006, 08:13:54 PM
Quote from: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 06:55:19 PM
Quote from: aaronstj on April 10, 2006, 05:59:29 PM
The point is, I DON'T HAVE to find textual support for my position.  Unless specifically prohibited, lane splitting is legal.  So is anything.  If you can't quote law, you're wrong.  There's no such onus on me.  Or are you going to tell me it's illegal to stand on one foot, since I can't find a law saying it's legal?

I have to prove my position, but you don't have to prove yours? wow
Yes.  That is exactly the case.  Because it is by default legal.  I do not have to quote law saying it is legal.  There does not need to be such a law for it to be legal.  That is how law works.  If there's no law for or against any given thing, it is legal.  End of story.

QuoteYou could pass between cars, travelling 10mph under the speed limit, 5ft of room on either side and an officer could still ticket you for wreckless driving and the charge would stand.
This is true.  But you are likely to beat the charge in  court.  And he could not ticket you for lane splitting itself.  Lane splitting is legal in California.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: aaronstj on April 10, 2006, 08:16:36 PM
Oh, but if it makes you feel better, Mak, here's from the California DMV (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs55thru57.htm).

Quote
Allow the motorcycle a full lane width. Although it is not illegal to share lanes with motorcycles, it is unsafe.

So the DMV specifically recognizes that lane sharing is legal.  Not that they needed to to make it legal, but they did.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: ajgs500 on April 10, 2006, 08:18:14 PM
Dont worry Aaron the rest of us know you are right!!!
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: aaronstj on April 10, 2006, 08:19:54 PM
Thanks.  Not sure how I feel about having you on my side.  :icon_mrgreen:  :kiss3:
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: ajgs500 on April 10, 2006, 08:22:32 PM
LOL  :laugh: :laugh:  I can assure you that it is definatley better than me not being on your side!!!!
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: NiceGuysFinishLast on April 10, 2006, 09:49:47 PM
Wow.. after reading all that.. All I have to say is.. "Mine's bigger than yours! NYAH!"

:laugh:

Anyway.. you guys have jacked this poor soul's thread all to hell.. so can anyone actually answer his question?
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: ajgs500 on April 10, 2006, 09:56:56 PM
Ok I will try...... it is illegal there so they can ticket you for it.... depending what mood the cop is in who knows what kind of fines he may give to you if you get caught but this is what I would be really concerned about..... sinse most people on bikes dont do it there the cagers probably wont even be expecting it so they wont know the maybe look for it thus probably causing you more of a chance to get in an accident or someone to rage more.  Riding on the shoulder/breakdown lane is stupid because of all of the debris that is in those lanes.  But if you dont mind $$$ in fines and a possible if not probable accident go for it!!!!
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: RVertigo on April 10, 2006, 11:42:11 PM
Quote from: ajgs500 on April 10, 2006, 05:55:26 PMSo I was just wondering if Mak only argues with people from Seattle??? :dunno_white: :dunno_white: :dunno_white:
Envy?  I dunno...  I figure it has a lot to do with the fact that he has no control over his own life and always has to be right, even when he's totally wrong.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: roguegeek on April 11, 2006, 01:36:03 AM
Agree with AJ. In the other states where it's just not legal, I'd be more worried about how other vehicles would react to me lane splitting when they aren't use to seeing it than the ticket I may or may not get from doing it. Here in Cali where it is perfectly legal, other vehicles give me room when they see me split. They're just use to motorcycles splitting lanes and are, for the most part, courteous to us motorcyclists. :thumb:

Not sure where mak gets his info from (:bs:), but considering he's in Texas and doesn't ride in California regularly (or not at all even?), I wouldn't consider him a great or even remotely reliable source for California highway laws.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: pandy on April 11, 2006, 07:29:31 AM
I think Cali is the *only* state where it's legal to laneshare, and even a lot of folks here don't know it's legal. I've been lucky so far that I've not met too many wackos out to kill an evil biker lanesharing. I've heard stories of the CHP moto cops actually LEADING bikers in a safe (fast) split, but I've yet to experience this myself...  :cry: ;)

I'm looking for an article that was written for a small (I believe independent) newspaper in northern California by a bay area LEO. It does a great job of informing the general public about lanesharing (aka lane splitting, but sharing is the preferred term). It wasn't on the newspaper site anymore (but for $2.99, it could be all mine!! bwahahaha...I'm too cheap)....so someone who knows someone who works at said newspaper is trying to get a copy of it. I sent a copy of the article to my best friend, and even SHE didn't know that lanesharing was legal in California!

I actually e-mailed a note of appreciation to the officer for the great community service he did by writing the article (and he even responded..what a guy!!).
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: scratch on April 11, 2006, 10:50:03 AM
Was it a copy of Friction Zone?
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: pandy on April 11, 2006, 12:27:18 PM
I don't think so. It was a fairly brief article written by Officer Harvey for BayAreaInsider... I'm still trying to get a copy of it...
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: pizzleboy on April 11, 2006, 12:32:51 PM
Quote from: makenzie71 on April 10, 2006, 07:10:51 PM
Quote from: Egaeus on April 10, 2006, 07:07:11 PM
The concept is "burden of proof."  The burden of proof is on the person claiming the existence of something, whether it be god, ghosts, or a law prohibiting lane splitting.  Lane splitting, when done reasonably and safely (and therefore not meeting the threshold of reckless driving), is AFAIK not prohibited by California law.  If you know of a law prohibiting such, which flies in the face of all evidence to the contrary, then you must show it to be taken seriously. 

The "proof" has been provided by the very people trying to convince us that it's legal.  All they've done is simply point out that the state of California makes no provisions for or against lane-splitting...which means that it's 100% up the witnessing officer's judgement as to whether it was an appropriate act or not.  You could pass between cars, travelling 10mph under the speed limit, 5ft of room on either side and an officer could still ticket you for wreckless driving and the charge would stand.


Based on what you said here, the officer might charge them with reckless / careless or something.  not with "lane splitting".
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: arcsecond on April 11, 2006, 01:19:22 PM
What's that old saying? "No matter where you are or what you're doing there is some ordinance under which you can be charged" Reading a lot of these vague laws, it sounds to me that most of them are just there to give the LEO grounds to stand on when he decides to ticket or arrest someone doing something he doesn't like.

-James
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: RVertigo on April 11, 2006, 01:22:53 PM
Arrest and/or ticket doesn't determine guilt and/or law breaking either.  Cops arrest and ticket people when they think they should, then a judge decides if they were right.

But, in this case pizzleboy is right...  They might be able to change you with reckless or speeding, but they can't charge you for lane sharing, since it's not illegal in CA...  But, in WA it is illegal and you will be changed with it.
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: pizzleboy on April 11, 2006, 01:26:37 PM
Quote from: RVertigo on April 11, 2006, 01:22:53 PM

But, in this case pizzleboy is right... 

Does that mean I'm not right the rest of the time???  Who cares.  I LOVE BEING RIGHT!! 

ps:  someone tell my X
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: RVertigo on April 11, 2006, 01:30:45 PM
Quote from: pizzleboy on April 11, 2006, 01:26:37 PM
Quote from: RVertigo on April 11, 2006, 01:22:53 PMBut, in this case pizzleboy is right... 
Does that mean I'm not right the rest of the time???  Who cares.  I LOVE BEING RIGHT!! 
ps:  someone tell my X
:laugh:

I was just pointing out what "Being Right" looks like... Since some people find it hard to tell the difference between being right and being wrong.   ;)
Title: Re: lane-splitting outside of CA
Post by: pandy on April 13, 2006, 08:19:52 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
February 22, 2006
Section: Argus
Article ID: 3534373

Motorcycle insight

IN THE BAY AREA, we as drivers have become accustomed to driving in traffic. Everywhere we go, no matter what, our everyday activities revolve around
traffic congestion. Nowadays, you just can't jump in the car and go from point A to point B without some planning.

Most California drivers always are in a big hurry, and they will "mow you down" if you don't get out of their way.

A number of families have two cars, and they leave the nice expensive one at home in the garage. Why? Because they have a commute car — you know,
the one that they can "beat to death." The one that they can swing the door open and dent your car. The car they can drive on the shoulder of the road and pass another car. The one they can open the driver's door on a motorcyclist splitting lanes.

Lane-splitting by motorcyclists? Most drivers can't stand this. Are car-bound drivers jealous? Are these motorcyclists "punk kids" on a motor vehicle that is too powerful for them?

Before you judge a motorcyclist, you should know the law and not jump to conclusions.

California is one of the few states that allow motorcyclists to split lanes. Yes, it is legal!

I own two motorcycles and drive one here at work.

Lane-splitting is permissible as long as it is done in a safe and prudent manner. The definition is broad, and it's up to the officer's judgment if he or she observes a violation in their presence.

Everyone recognizes that lane-splitting is a way for motorcyclists to save time or to get through traffic quicker — which is why car-bound drivers resent it.

In the defense of motorcyclists, lane-splitting also reduces congestion and helps everyone get to their destination sooner. If a majority of the
drivers on California roads drove motorcycles, there would hardly be any traffic. In addition, air pollution would be cut in half, if not more.

I was reluctant to split lanes myself.

Driving a motorcycle is difficult because you constantly have to be aware of your surroundings, and you are committed to be a defensive driver.

Most car-bound drivers are rude and do not understand the law. They think we are violating the law when we split lanes.

But do they realize that when they merge into a motorcyclist or block their path that they could get the ticket and not the motorcyclist?

I mentioned before that lane-splitting must be done in a safe and prudent manner. This means it should be done with caution and with due regard
for other traffic on the road.

Usually, lane-splitting is done at slower speeds during heavy commute traffic. When motorcyclists split lanes at higher speeds, this becomes unsafe and they can be violating several traffic laws, such as unsafe lane changes, failure to signal and yield of right of way.

The dangers involved in lane-splitting are the close proximity of other vehicles, the limited space for maneuvering and the fact that few
drivers anticipate your presence.

I have had a few close calls myself, and I have witnessed a number of accidents.

It is a fact that most drivers don't see motorcyclists. Motorcycles are quick, and they often are in the blind spots of car-bound drivers.

Whether you drive a motorcycle or a car, be careful, be defensive, drive safely and prudently, and know the law before you take action.

Share the road. Motor vehicles are not the only ones using the roads — pedestrians, bicyclists, truckers and other motor vehicles are on the
roads, too.

Officer Dan Harvey is a traffic officer with the city of Fremont. His column appears every Wednesday. If you have questions you want answered, you can
e-mail him at dharvey@ci.fremont.ca.us.

(c) 2006 The Oakland Tribune. All rights reserved. Reproduced with the permission of Media NewsGroup, Inc. by NewsBank, Inc.