...is a bi*ch.
I need to get the dents outta the tank for my 01' rebuild project. LINKY (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=24409.0)
My solution is to use a slide hammer to pull the dents out and try to smooth them out. I have experience in dent removale for cages but not MC gas tanks. I will have to weld the holes created by the slide hammer.
Anyone done this before? any insight on how much of a pain in the ass this will be?
BIG Question ----- how do I get all the gas out? welding and gas don't mix. KAboom, big bada BOOM. :thumb:
Dan's Motorcycle says to fill it with an inert gas.
http://www.dansmc.com/gastank.htm
Thanks. I've read his site through and through, but theres gotta be another way.
I'm gonna try soap and water, but I know I'm treading on thin ice.
take it to a radiator shop
they will boil it out in whatever solution they use
and they will braze it up also for very little
Do you have a mig welder? why not fill it with argon?
Quote from: 3imo on April 19, 2006, 07:27:39 AM
...is a bi*ch.
I need to get the dents outta the tank for my 01' rebuild project. LINKY (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=24409.0)
My solution is to use a slide hammer to pull the dents out and try to smooth them out. I have experience in dent removale for cages but not MC gas tanks. I will have to weld the holes created by the slide hammer.
Anyone done this before? any insight on how much of a pain in the ass this will be?
BIG Question ----- how do I get all the gas out? welding and gas don't mix. KAboom, big bada BOOM. :thumb:
A good idea to get the dents out the gas tank might be putting water in the tank and freezing it. Letting the water expand and knock the dents out. Might work im not sure. :dunno_white:
The metal around the dents will be work-hardened; freezing water in the tank will only stress any weaker spots first, and I DON'T recommend it at all. I understand the thought behind the suggestion, but it won't work as a practical solution.
I've often wondered if a different approach might work; filling a tank with clean sand (NOT sawdust, which would be flammable), or something similar (colored aquarium gravel? does that stuff melt?), might do the trick if the gas tank was clean inside. The sand should displace most of the air/oxygen in the tank, and won't support combustion. I think you could avoid making holes for the dent puller completely if you spot-welded a LOT of nails to the dented area, then rigged the slide-hammer to pull on the nail shafts; the welded-on nail heads would pull the metal out a few millimeters, bringing the metal (somewhat) back to the original shape. This would require some trial-and-error, but if you heated the damaged area with the torch, the sand behind the metal might hold enough heat to keep the area fairly hot while you work the metal. You might have to reheat the area every few minutes, but that should still give you plenty of time to pull the metal closer to where you want it, using the slide-hammer (or whatever) to pull the nail shanks. Once you're satisfied with the results, remove the nails and grind down the welds; no hole-filling required.
Don't really know if this will work for you, but if you want to try it, keep a fire-extinguisher handy, and think it through before you begin. You might be aware of a hazard I'm overlooking...
Either way, I'd appreciate some feedback on this, from one and all...
Thanks CAL. I like that idea about the nails. I'll have to rigg the dent puller but it'll work :thumb:
Werase-- I am gonna check with the local radiator shops and see what they say.
LX-- I'm using a flux core welder. the gas is produced by the wire itself.
any more Ideas?
welding nails on will work. In the body repair industry they use a "stud welder" which is essentially the same thing... its just made to tack on a lil stud that is made to be pulled by a slide hammer. Depending on dent size (for smaller dents) I would try to use a paintless dent removal tool... "Ding King" comes to mind. Otherwise... if the dents are mostly small u can hit it with a "ding King" and then just bondo over the minor imperfections.
Sorry to thread jack, but... How well does the flux core welder work? I'm thinking about getting one cause I don't want to deal with the gas but have heard mixed reviews
I really really really liked the sand idea. Many potential benifits... and relatively good idea for removing oxygen from the mixture.
However, depending on how course of sand you use, it might be a pain in the ass to get it out of corners when you're finished.
Quote from: LimaXray on April 19, 2006, 11:09:34 AM
Sorry to thread jack, but... How well does the flux core welder work? I'm thinking about getting one cause I don't want to deal with the gas but have heard mixed reviews
FluxCore welding is ok... but you will not get the prettiest welds. With practice, good prep, and anti-spatter spray I can lay a very nice bead that is acceptable for any exhaust work. I have had experience making turbo manifolds for honda's using fluxcore welding and they are fine. Just not the all the bling that people see when using a several thousand dollar TIG welder. Basically... ur probably better off buying a decent welder that has gas capabilities and start out with fluxcore wire... then down the road when you are ready to step up you can go out and buy the gas/solid wire... and then kick yourself for not doing it sooner.
I personally don't like the sand idea at all. Think about going to the beach.... sand in weird places for days. I say just strip the tank down and let it air out. If you have a compressor that would help... have it blow air through the tank for a while... all the gas will evap and u'll be good to go.
Quote from: CRXDrew on April 19, 2006, 12:03:39 PM
FluxCore welding is ok... but you will not get the prettiest welds. With practice, good prep, and anti-spatter spray I can lay a very nice bead that is acceptable for any exhaust work.
Basically... ur probably better off buying a decent welder that has gas capabilities and start out with fluxcore wire... then down the road when you are ready to step up you can go out and buy the gas/solid wire... and then kick yourself for not doing it sooner.
+1 not pretty but it does the job. Plus It make me a better grinder :laugh:
Quote from: CRXDrew on April 19, 2006, 12:03:39 PM
Quote from: LimaXray on April 19, 2006, 11:09:34 AM
Sorry to thread jack, but... How well does the flux core welder work? I'm thinking about getting one cause I don't want to deal with the gas but have heard mixed reviews
FluxCore welding is ok... but you will not get the prettiest welds. With practice, good prep, and anti-spatter spray I can lay a very nice bead that is acceptable for any exhaust work. I have had experience making turbo manifolds for honda's using fluxcore welding and they are fine. Just not the all the bling that people see when using a several thousand dollar TIG welder. Basically... ur probably better off buying a decent welder that has gas capabilities and start out with fluxcore wire... then down the road when you are ready to step up you can go out and buy the gas/solid wire... and then kick yourself for not doing it sooner.
Thats what I was thinking about doing: get a welder that can do either gas or gasless minus the regulator and what not, and start off gasless. All I see myself using it for now is to fabricate my own downpipes, which is probably a lot more forgiving then welding manifolds. Bling doesn't matter to me, the downpipe I have now was stick welded and looks like shaZam! but works great. As long as it doesn't leak I'm happy
"Airing out" a tank before welding DOESN'T work; just ask anyone who has tried it (which includes me, more than once). Filling it with water won't work either; again, I know this from first-hand experience. A friend bought welding equipment from a small shop which was closing (the owner was retiring), and we wanted to test it out by repairing some gas tanks (one from a Yamaha XS650, one from an old Jeep). We tried a few different methods, none of which worked well at all. The friend has long since moved, so I no longer have access to his oxy-acetylene or MIG welding equipment.
The sand SHOULDN'T present a serious problem, though after giving it a little more thought, I would recommend pouring the sand through a mesh screen first, to eliminate as much sediment and small particles as possible; pea-sized gravel (available at any store that sells landscaping products) would also be an option. Obviously, the gravel would be much larger than sand particles, and there may be other products I haven't considered yet. After heating / welding the fuel tank, just flush the tank thoroughly multiple times, and use a fuel filter in each of the gas lines (main and reserve) coming from the fuel tank; I have fuel filters installed and check them frequently for signs of rust or other crud. Since they don't fit well side-by-side, I have them staggered, with one closer to the fuel tank, and the other closer to the frame-mounted petcock. The fuel filters should prevent any serious problems; if they clog quickly, it would indicate that the tank needs to be flushed again.
I made those suggestions because it seems obvious to me that 3imo has the skills and experience to overcome any problems he encounters; the photos he's posted so far show that he is both intelligent and resourceful, and I believe he can find a suitable way to make this method work, unless he chooses to have the repairs made professionally.
CRXDrew: Thanks for the information about the "stud welder"; nice to know that such a device actually exists. Now, I'll have to stop in at a local body shop, so I can see one in action. I wonder how much they cost...
well as someone who had a whole in their gas tank and got it fixed, i can tell you, no one will weld it, and for good reason. that thing is a bomb! what they will do, is solder a piece of metal over the crack or hole for example. soldering: no open flame=no explosion. i had this done and am very satisfied with the results. i wouldn't go through the trouble of putting sand or whatever in, can u imagine what a pain in the ass it will be to get it all out? call around radiator shops and ask if they will solder it. good luck!
~facio
I would weld it.......
I am sure I could find a place that would too. lots of things are dangerous..if done wrong.. even motorcycle riding.
If I go Kaboom...tell my freinds I died as I wanted to go.....with a bang :laugh: :laugh:
welder...MILLER XP135 . . . best most expensive cheap wire feed welder
it's about 700 for the set up
much better than the 400 ones
stud gun....Harbor Freight...bout 100 bucks and ya don't destroy the integrity of the tank....no welding up the holes
Quote from: werase643 on April 19, 2006, 05:17:54 PM
stud gun....Harbor Freight...bout 100 bucks and ya don't destroy the integrity of the tank....no welding up the holes
Beat me to it :-p. I've heard of mixed results using these HF ones... but then again there are mixed results for everything they sell.
Solder is a good idea for a nick/crack. I would go with brazing if need be aswell. You can get brazing stuff @ Home Depot and the like. I can't see how bad a tank could possible be to repair. I was just thinking you could rinse out the gas and go to town.
<-- motorcycle noob.. for now.
apparantly its almost imposible to weld oem gas tanks because they are made from such thin metal. I'm not sure how true this is on the GS, but I know its true on older bikes.
Is it really worth the risk of serious injury or death just to save $150 or so? I got my new tank in pristine condition for $122.50 + $20 to ship.
I Invested in one of the More Expensive Brands of Stud welders.It does take some getting use to.I did take some Nasty Dents out of a friends tank and did Blow a Hole in it with the Ground ring when it Didn't Ground too well.I was Able to weld it back with a Little Lincoln Flux welder.When Welding a Tank as long as you rinse it very well you'll be OK.I always take them to the Car wash and spend a few dollars to rinse them out with the High Pressure Soap then Rinse well.
I've also seen several that was being prepared for welding by Rinsing them and Heating them on a wood Stove until steam Comes out of the Filler.Afterwards Light what Fumes are Left in the Tank off with a Piece of Lit Newspaper. ;)
f3
Quote from: Wrecent_Wryder on April 20, 2006, 04:10:18 AM
Personally, I would NOT count on sand or anything like it to "displace" gas fumes.
wrecent..... His suggestion was that the sand could displace the air/oxygen content of the tank, which in theory would not support combustion.
I doubt he intended for me to "not" rinse the fuel out first. :cookoo:
------
regardless..a gas tank is a steel box. fuel can be rinsed out enough to minimize risk of explosion. Of the three cases I've been able to Google about deaths related to gas tank welding. none of those idiots even tried to rinse the tank out.
They can be welded, people have welded used tanks and I believe my balls are big enough to withstand the blow :thumb:
BTW- Egaeus... Man, I almost had a new tank on ebay, but got out bid and my pc was too slow to catch it.
the other guy got it for $71 lucky bastard. :2guns:
Quote from: 3imo on April 20, 2006, 06:17:14 AM
BTW- Egaeus... Man, I almost had a new tank on ebay, but got out bid and my pc was too slow to catch it.
the other guy got it for $71 lucky bastard. :2guns:
That's why you always bid the max that you're willing to pay. It will help defeat snipers.
update.....
So I ended up using household dishwashing soap and water to clean the tank of gas.
I spoke to a radiator shop and the guy went on and on about how his experience with gas tanks was just soap and water.
#1 - I put a bunch of soap and a little water and swished it around the tank. letting it sit for an hour.
#2 - then I filled it with more water and swished again for a good long time.
#3 - unplugged the petcock hole and rinsed with water all the while swishing it around.
#4 - after I got out as much water as possible and no more bubbles were visible, I let it air out for two days. (it was still wet and pooled in the bottom)
#5 - I stuffed two rags and swished them around then left them sitting in the bottom of the tank over night.
#6 - I removed the rags and let her dry out in the sun. By night fall she was dry and I couldn't smell any gas fumes.
So after double checking my life insurance, I sanded down the dent with my dremel and attempted to weld a nail to the tank.
:o being a dumbass, I had the current setting to high and burned a hole straight through the tank. :o
I turned the settings down and went to a thinner fluxcore wire (.30) I was barely able to repair the hole.
but I got it sealed good and grinded down again.
So... I get a nail welded on to the tank and successfully knock out a good portion of the dent. I cut and grind that back down.
I weld another nail to the tank and proceed to knock more dent out. it works but I end up ripping the weld off the tank and creating a dime size hole in the tank :cry: :o
Man..o...Man was I pissed. The tank metal is a way thinner gauge than I expected. but being hardheaded as I am I wouldn't let it get me down, I figure I guess I'm gonna learn how to fix dime size holes. 8)
in the end I did fix it but it took a lot of welding and grinding over and over again to cover that big of a hole.
I still have a bit more dent to get rid of, but mostly it came out great. I couldn't take pics cause my camera is F**ked but I will try to get something. I think my neighbor took a pic of the second hole. I'll try to get that posted........
So you can have a laugh. :icon_rolleyes: Is anyone even reading this?
I read it. I can just see the look on your face.. "It's working! It's working! Oh f%$k there's a hole!" :laugh:
yeah I bet I looked just like this guy --> :o
anyway I'm learning. which is good.
worst case I end up buying a new tank. oh well.
now I know to pop the dent out a little then cut and grind and start again.
I hope I can get that pic of the hole. Then you'd understand the holy shaZam! factor.
Quote from: 3imo on May 03, 2006, 11:24:17 AM
Man..o...Man was I pissed. The tank metal is a way thinner gauge than I expected. but being hardheaded as I am I wouldn't let it get me down, I figure I guess I'm gonna learn how to fix dime size holes. 8)
hate to say I told you so, but is that not what I said?
Quote from: budget speed demon on April 19, 2006, 06:59:00 PM
apparantly its almost imposible to weld oem gas tanks because they are made from such thin metal. I'm not sure how true this is on the GS, but I know its true on older bikes.
ah...you sure did. :dunno_white:
but I still disagree on the "almost impossible".
difficult for a noob, yes, but very possible once you get the weld settings right and some practice.
I am not discouraged. I also plan on repairing the dents outta my 99' tank. I'll do better next time around. :thumb:
Sweet. A man after my own heart. I go to some local bike meets and all these guys don't know sh!t about bikes. They just ride them a bit and take them to a shop to get fixed. That doesn't make any sense to me. I know I guy that just paid like $200 to have a set of fork seals changed on his sport bike. Mean while I did the same thing to my GS for like $30 including parts and oil. It's cool that you're doing all your own work and learning while doing it.
some Paintless dent repair places use diff tools (some handmade for the moment) hammers and Body "Dolly" type things to work dents and creases out from the back side, i did the same to a KZ440 tank i had and needed very little putty to finnish off any low spots, think i gained back about 1/4 gal in capacity (yes it was that bad). some times its easyer to fix dents from inside. wont be perfect but can get you close
do you mean cutting out the bottom? how else would you get em from the inside?
for starters i used a older American Tire Iron, after removing the gascap i fished around inside with the wrench end pushing on the dents from inside i kept working on it then massaged some areas wih (dont laugh) a 7 Iron with a bent shaft(no i didnt bend it) it was far from perfect but it worked well.