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Main Area => General GS500 Discussion => Topic started by: skoebl on April 25, 2006, 12:38:51 PM

Title: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II) **Update**
Post by: skoebl on April 25, 2006, 12:38:51 PM
Alright, so I finally got around to getting the correct pilot jets. So I figured while I'm in there I'll adjust the float heights to spec (by measuring), instead of just using the tube method.

Where do I measure on the float to get the correct distance?
Also, I assume I push the little metal tab down or up to adjust it, but is there a place to bend it that is better than others?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: LimaXray on April 25, 2006, 12:41:28 PM
apparently the measure method doesn't work, use the tube method
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: Alphamazing on April 25, 2006, 12:42:44 PM
Quote from: LimaXray on April 25, 2006, 12:41:28 PM
apparently the measure method doesn't work, use the tube method

Why do you say that? I used the measure method to set mine the other week and it worked fine.

EDIT: If the carbs are upside down and the float is resting, it's the bottom lip of the part that sticks out a little bit...

Wow that isn't very clear.
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: LimaXray on April 25, 2006, 12:48:17 PM
dunno... I've read here like a 1000 times to use Kerry's method instead of the manual's method.  Never done it myself so I'm talking out of my ass
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: skoebl on April 25, 2006, 12:48:39 PM
Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on April 25, 2006, 12:42:44 PM

EDIT: If the carbs are upside down and the float is resting, it's the bottom lip of the part that sticks out a little bit...

Wow that isn't very clear.

:laugh: So I measure from the bottom lip thing that sticks out to the top of the flat metal part?  :icon_lol:

*Edit: err...when the carb is upside down
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: Mandres on April 25, 2006, 01:03:35 PM
Kerry's test is not a method to setting float height, it's simply an easy way to check whether or not it's correct.  I followed the directions in the Haynes manual and it came out perfect (checked by performing Kerry's test).  I'll write what I did by memory so don't take it as gospel:

1.  drain and remove carbs and detach float bowl.
2.  remove float assembly, needle valve and guide.  Clean them up and make sure they're not damaged or sticking.
3.  reinstall needle guide, valve, and float assembly making sure the needle seats properly in the guide.
4.  tip the carb until the needle starts sliding out of it's seat in the guide.  Carefully tilt it back until the needle seats fully, but not so much that the spring-loaded head of the needle starts to compress.  This is a little tricky at first, but if you have the assembly in front of you it will make sense.
5.  holding the carb in that position measure vertically from the gasket surface (with no gasket installed) to the highest edge of the plastic float chamber.  It should be 14-16 mm.  
6.  If you get an out of spec measurement double check that the needle valve is fully seated, but that the spring-loaded part of the needle is not compressed at all.  Make necessary adjustments to the float height by bending the tab on the float assembly.

-M
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: patrick on April 26, 2006, 07:46:27 AM
http://factorypro.com/tech/float_height_adj_procedure.html

Patrick
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: Mandres on April 26, 2006, 09:20:20 AM
That's a good link, and the same process that I used.  I don't have one of those tools (and can't see spending $50 on one) so I just used a plain-ole metric ruler.

-M
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: skoebl on April 26, 2006, 09:52:17 AM
Sweet, thanks for the link.
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: patrick on April 26, 2006, 06:19:00 PM
There's a lot of good stuff on the Factory site.

http://factorypro.com/tech/indextech.html

Patrick
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: skoebl on May 13, 2006, 04:32:50 PM
Ok....yet another won't start deal....

I got all the jets in...shimmed the needles...set the float heights (got it spot on)...etc...

I started out with the air mixture screws set at 2.5 turns out.

Bike started, but ran really rich and would die if I gave it throttle.
So, I set the screws back in and took them out 2 turns; same problem.

ATM I sit at 1.5 turns out, same problem as before.

So, the plain, simple question is why won't my bike start?


Oh, also I wanted to know if the needles came with any washers on them stock. There seems to be 2 under each needle (at the bottom of the plunger thing) and there was already one where I was supposed to put another (between the c-clip and the donut thing)...
Is this right?

Thanks
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: domas on May 14, 2006, 03:49:12 AM
I found it very hard to check float height when carbs are vertical. I came up with metod that let me check floats: put the carbs on their side, like if the bike would be on his side. There is a interval in float movement where they move freely, and one were they compress a spring and try to rebound. I compress them and let them rebound slowly untill they dont move by themselves anymore. Then floats are stable and not moving, so you can measure the height.

Hope this made any sense and will be helpfull to someone.
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: scratch on May 14, 2006, 08:27:32 AM
Quote from: skoebl on May 13, 2006, 04:32:50 PM
Oh, also I wanted to know if the needles came with any washers on them stock. There seems to be 2 under each needle (at the bottom of the plunger thing) and there was already one where I was supposed to put another (between the c-clip and the donut thing)...
Is this right?
No.
When we opened up 70 Cam Guy's stock carbs there were two additional brass washers in his that weren't in my stock, never-been-opened-before carbs.  One was above, and one was under each circlip.  His is a '91, mine's a '94.
I think the second 'unused' washer was placed in there so the owner wouldn't have to look for them when he wanted to slip the additional washer underneath.
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: skoebl on May 14, 2006, 09:09:30 AM
Quote from: scratch on May 14, 2006, 08:27:32 AM
No.
When we opened up 70 Cam Guy's stock carbs there were two additional brass washers in his that weren't in my stock, never-been-opened-before carbs.  One was above, and one was under each circlip.  His is a '91, mine's a '94.
I think the second 'unused' washer was placed in there so the owner wouldn't have to look for them when he wanted to slip the additional washer underneath.

Interesting. Mine were under the doughnut.

But, good news, my bike lives!!! I had a lot of trouble with my floats. I would set them, put them on, put the tank back on, and check them; and they would be fine. Then, as if  by magic, they would end up waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off (like 3 inches above the float bowls, yes, with gas coming out of the intake). So that took the majority of my day yesterday. I have no idea how far out my air mixture screws are, but I set it by turning them  half turn until the revs wouldn't increase anymore and I had good throttle response when I blipped it to 1/4.

So, in my frustrating rejetting I learned a lot. Now I should probably be able to do it to any bike  :thumb:


Thanks for all the patient help you've all given me too (particularly Scratch)...without that I'd be soooo lost  :cookoo:
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: Egaeus on May 14, 2006, 09:56:43 AM
I put mine between the circlip and the doughnut so that i don't have to keep track of them when I disassemble my carbs.
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: Wrecent_Wryder on May 14, 2006, 10:13:44 AM
[yt
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: skoebl on May 14, 2006, 12:29:31 PM
omfg I can't believe this....It was running fine last night...now it won't start... :mad: :mad:


I swear I'm sooo close to just giving up....

My float height is off again...Now the right carb is lower (about 1/2 inch) than the other one (other one level with gasket).....

:mad: :mad: :2guns: :2guns: :oops:
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: scratch on May 14, 2006, 01:50:59 PM
Adjust the right float only.  Try again.  Little steps.  Little by little we'll get it in tune.
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: scratch on May 14, 2006, 01:54:14 PM
Quote from: Wrecent_Wryder on May 14, 2006, 10:13:44 AM
I just put the extra washer between the donut and the washer that was under it.
Is there a plastic flying saucer type of washer that goes on top of all that, too?  The spring is supposed to keep the needle seated by pushing down on the saucer washer.
So, you're going to, or should have, two plastic washers in there.
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: Wrecent_Wryder on May 14, 2006, 02:51:41 PM
g6
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: skoebl on May 14, 2006, 03:23:38 PM
Well...after a good couple of hours tinkering...I found out that my float levels won't stay put. I set both at 15mm, put the tank back on and whatnot, perfect....5 minutes later, bike won't start; I look down and there's gas everywhere; check the float levels, well over an inch above the gasket....Did this about 3 times so far.

But I must say, I had it working for a little bit (then I had to take the tank off to put everything back on 'cause i thought I was done) and it ran soooooo well.

So, when the float levels are right, the rejet works splendiferically.

Any idea as to what would cause my levels to jump so sporatically?

If I can't fix it I'll probably just end up taking to a local shop and letting them fiddle with it.... :dunno_white:
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: Wrecent_Wryder on May 14, 2006, 03:31:24 PM
7f
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: skoebl on May 14, 2006, 03:34:14 PM
Quote from: Wrecent_Wryder on May 14, 2006, 03:31:24 PM
Seems to be a lot of this going around right now.

If the float bowl level won't stabilize, and it's leaking gas, what could it be besides sticky floats, or the needle valve/seat?

Did you have to drill out the float bowl screws to rejet? Were there shavings?

I didn't have to drill anything.

How can you tell if the problem is with the needle valve/seat? (is it if it leaks gas and the levels wont stabilize?  :laugh:)
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: Wrecent_Wryder on May 14, 2006, 03:47:37 PM
r5
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: scratch on May 14, 2006, 03:53:39 PM
Unless there's a hole in one of the floats, then it wont float to shut the valve needle.  Test in a bowl of gasoline.
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: Wrecent_Wryder on May 14, 2006, 03:57:13 PM
[5
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: Wrecent_Wryder on May 17, 2006, 12:42:36 PM
[rd
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: scratch on May 17, 2006, 12:55:51 PM
Oh an '01, now I understand.  Good info.  :thumb:  The needle float sounds plausible. 
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: joedude on May 17, 2006, 05:56:01 PM
Make sure that your needle seat is properly seated in your carb. There's an O-ring in there and it can get squared off, or just crack after long exposure to gasoline. That's what happened to mine and it was letting gas thru asthough the float was set improperly.
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: skoebl on May 18, 2006, 04:13:29 PM
Alright....I bought new floats...I THOUGHT I was buying new float needles too...but bikebandit's fiche is hard to read and I ended up buying the needle jet....


Aaaanyway....Still no luck. When I put it in prime gas comes out of the air intake part of the carbs (where the airbox goes)....
I know the needles work, I was experimenting with them on the carbs....and I set the float heights time and time again....


I'm just confused now.... :dunno_white:  Everything seems to be doign what it's supposed to do..........except running....
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: Wrecent_Wryder on May 19, 2006, 04:13:46 AM
[4
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: skoebl on May 19, 2006, 09:00:40 PM
Took this picture when I was putting in the new floats....thought it was kind of amusing (new vs old)

(http://www.scottslair.com/Motorcycle/newvold.jpg)
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II)
Post by: skoebl on May 25, 2006, 05:43:36 PM
Ok, got the right parts now. Put them in....same thing happened; but only for a few seconds (still odd). After the few seconds of fuel leaking out, the levels stabilized. No matter how much I adjust one side, it's about 1/8 - 1/4 inch higher than the gasket; the other is spot on.

Buuuuut, still won't run  :dunno_white:

So, any ideas? Would the level being just a little high on one side make it not run?
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II) **Update**
Post by: Kerry on May 25, 2006, 11:29:55 PM
Thought I would dust off my image archive.  (After reading the whole thread I couldn't tell whether you have seen them already.  Sorry if they're repeats.)

First, the PartsNMore (https://www.partsnmore.com/motorcycle-carb-rebuild-kits.php?make=suzuki&category=carb_kits) carb rebuild kit.  This might be helpful while discussing various parts.

(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/PartsNMore_CarbRebuildKit.jpg)[/list]



A page from the ('89 to '97) Haynes manual.  The float height adjustment process is described in sections 6 & 7.

http://www.bbburma.net/Scans/Haynes_FloatHeight_FullPage.jpg[/list]



The most important image from that page.  The measurement should be 14.6mm (+/- 1.0mm)

(http://www.bbburma.net/Scans/Haynes_FloatHeight.jpg)



An illustration from the Clymer manual that might apply here.

(http://www.bbburma.net/Scans/Clymer_FloatNeedles_Inspection.jpg)[/list]



Since you're draining fuel from the airbox, it sure sounds like either:

clean, as well as the socket into which the needle seat is pressed[/list][/list]

Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II) **Update**
Post by: skoebl on May 26, 2006, 09:55:02 AM
Well, seeing as how the needle seat, and needle are both brand new (and have no visible signs of wear or damage)...The problem is most likely #2.

It seems as though when I bend the tang to set the height, I have to bend it a significant amount downwards for the floats to move up (I am simulating the bowl being attached by pressign on the float 'cage').  When I look at the tang from the side it goes out horizontally (err...allllmost horizontal) over the needle, then makes a sharp turn downward. Am I right to guess that it shouldn't be bent like this; but more like a straight line pointing downward?

(http://www.scottslair.com/Motorcycle/tang.jpg)
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II) **Update**
Post by: Kerry on May 26, 2006, 12:41:40 PM
When we say "tang" we're talking about the small metal part visible in both the old and new "float cages" in your photo above, right?  I would NOT try to reshape that tang; it should work "as is".

What did you think of the instructions in section 7 of the full Haynes page that I linked to?  Does that sound like the way you do the adjustment?  The most important text on the page is:

not so far that the needle's spring-loaded tip is compressed.[/list]

It can be tricky to do the tilting with your "fine motor control" muscles, check that the needle valve is in JUST the right position, AND measure the height above the gasket surface all by yourself.  (Maybe this is why some folks turn the carb on its side...?)  Getting a (meticulous) friend to help can be beneficial, or using a bean bag or something that will hold the carb in position and allow tiny position changes -- and free you up to concentrate on the measurement part.
Title: Re: How to measure and change float height? (AKA re-jet part II) **Update**
Post by: skoebl on May 26, 2006, 03:45:16 PM
Yeah, that's how I've been doing it. Before I rejetted there was a float problem and I got them spot on  :thumb:.....buuuut, no such luck this time.  :icon_rolleyes:




**Edit: On a much happier note; I got my new tires today. Metzeler Lazertec 110/80/17 front and 150/70/17 rear. Now if I were just able to put them to use lol