last year I replaced the pan due to stripped plug. Got a new pan, seal and plug and plug seam from MRcycle online.
The suzuki gasket was a thin almost paper type gasket which came with no adhesive. The old pan I removed appeared to have no type of adhesive or glue on it, so I just put it in dry and tightened up to the clymers recommended torq spec.
It started leaking very soon thereafter, a re-torq did not help.
Guess I should have used some sort of glue or thin film of RTV.
Any ideas? In the world of honda's they have something called honda-bond, maybe suzuki has something like that.
Advice would be appreciated, especially some from those that have been there done that!!!! Thanks.
Yamabond4, but our bikes have a gasket for the pan.
I would take the gasket off, clean off the coating with Acetone, and add a layer of Copper Coat
(http://www.mondellotwister.com/1516S.gif)
Hopefully that will seal it up.
-M
Dont take the cheap way out. I found out the hardway that the aftermarket gaskets suck.the o.e.m. gasket is a little bit thicker and has some sort of adhesive that expands once the engine heats up for a tight seal. A CHEAP BUY WILL COST U DOUBLE IN FUTURE REPAIRS.
Quote from: garciabooboo24 on May 19, 2006, 09:57:55 AM
Dont take the cheap way out. I found out the hardway that the aftermarket gaskets suck.the o.e.m. gasket is a little bit thicker and has some sort of adhesive that expands once the engine heats up for a tight seal. A CHEAP BUY WILL COST U DOUBLE IN FUTURE REPAIRS.
I totally agree with that. Every single aftermarket part I've bought off Ebay has been a disappointment. Spend a few extra dollars and be happy. GooseyGoose got his parts from Mr.Cycle so I assume they were OEM.
Quote from: DerekNC on May 19, 2006, 10:04:13 AM
Quote from: garciabooboo24 on May 19, 2006, 09:57:55 AM
Dont take the cheap way out. I found out the hardway that the aftermarket gaskets suck.the o.e.m. gasket is a little bit thicker and has some sort of adhesive that expands once the engine heats up for a tight seal. A CHEAP BUY WILL COST U DOUBLE IN FUTURE REPAIRS.
I totally agree with that. Every single aftermarket part I've bought off Ebay has been a disappointment. Spend a few extra dollars and be happy. GooseyGoose got his parts from Mr.Cycle so I assume they were OEM.
Yes as far as I know the pan gasket was a genuine suzuki part. Maybe I will call MRcycle and see what they suggest about adhesive or RTV. Clymers mentioned nothing about it btw, hence my asking.
how well did you clean the mating surfaces? are you 100% sure there was no oil present on either surface?
if you bought the correct gasket from a reputable source, then you should suspect yourself first.
from experience, whenever I had a new gasket that I just replaced leak, I usually reordered the exact same gasket and reinstalled properly.
everytime (for me anyway) the same gasket worked.
Your trying to seal a spot where every drop of oil left in the engine is trying to get to. this can be very tough. just like trying to seal a transmission oil pan. oil continues to seap down. it really sucks.
IMO don't assume the gasket is cheap. start all over again remove the pan and allow the bike to drain for a day or two. dry the edges as best you can.
clean the mating surfaces with laquer thinner or acetone (something that drys without leaving residue)
be 100% sure it is squeaky clean and no oil is seaping down.
then install the gasket. RTV is not needed but can be lightly used if needed for peace of mind.
I rarely use RTV on gaskets. unless I know I gouged the mating surfaces.
see what you can do with these two pennies. good luck :thumb:
this was my worry when i did my oil pan replacement too :icon_confused:...all. i can say is clean the mating surface, replace with new gasket and torq to spec....be patient with th te gs, it does that....good luck!
Quote from: 3imo on May 19, 2006, 11:20:27 AM
how well did you clean the mating surfaces? are you 100% sure there was no oil present on either surface?
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Anytime I do work I always keep it clean. I spend alot of time in preparation.
if you bought the correct gasket from a reputable source, then you should suspect yourself first.
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maybe
from experience, whenever I had a new gasket that I just replaced leak, I usually reordered the exact same gasket and reinstalled properly.
everytime (for me anyway) the same gasket worked.
Your trying to seal a spot where every drop of oil left in the engine is trying to get to. this can be very tough. just like trying to seal a transmission oil pan. oil continues to seap down. it really sucks.
IMO don't assume the gasket is cheap. start all over again remove the pan and allow the bike to drain for a day or two. dry the edges as best you can.
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the edges were completely clean and free of debris. I maybe had a drip of oil draining out as even if you let it sit for hours on its side its going to still bleed down a little.
clean the mating surfaces with laquer thinner or acetone (something that drys without leaving residue)
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this I did not do....
be 100% sure it is squeaky clean and no oil is seaping down.
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As I said above, maybe I did have a little, but not much! Honestly maybe just a few droplets.
then install the gasket. RTV is not needed but can be lightly used if needed for peace of mind.
I rarely use RTV on gaskets. unless I know I gouged the mating surfaces.
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I will definately use Acetone this time, and maybe a very thin film of rtv. This was a oem brand new pan, and it was perfect with no porosity, or gouges.
see what you can do with these two pennies. good luck :thumb:
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thanks, will keep you posted.
with the temps reached in engines, the oil left by a single finger print can possibly cause a gasket to fail. especially on thin mating surfaces.
(for the naysayers - I did say "can possibly" sheesh!?)
a drop/smudge of oil on a gasket should be considered catastrophic. damn near guaranteed to leak.
of course you will find someone who says the always have oil on ther gaskets.... whatever. they can think what they want.
keep in your head to have the sufaces surgically clean and you wont need RTV. But again a thin layer wont hurt, just keep it thin.
I would check the mating surface of the pan is perfectly flat and not distorted. Use a 12" steel rule across the faces and look for high/low spots. You can also place it on a flat surface and try to rock it from side to side, a sheet of glass will be the best option. Another tip is to take a a twist-drill about twice the diameter of the threaded holes in the bottom of the casing and slightly countersink all of them. The edges of threaded holes around the circumference, particulary in soft metals can be drawn above the machined face when the bolts are tightened preventing the mating surfaces from sealing effectively. Although I would have expected this to have been done as part of the manufacturing process. The paper gasket should work without any additional sealing compounds, thats how it left the factory. Check also that its not torn into one of the bolt holes, if it is the oil will leak down the bolt threads and out from under the bolt head.
Okay I received the 2nd genuine suzuki gasket from MR cycle and put it in last night with a little bit of Yamabond this time. I used nail polish remover (acetone to clean all surfaces before ashesion, so hopefully this does it. Engine block was drained completely as you can get it for 3 days sitting on the main stand, so there wasn't any oil dripping down after I cleaned with the acetone, like 6 times!
Clymers said 88 inch lbs/10 ft lbs, which I applied in the recommend cris-cross pattern. Hopefully this does it. I am letting it setup 24 hours before I add the crazy expensive silkolene (10.95 qt, dammmmm). You don't want to loose any of this stuff at that price!
Does anybody else think 88 inch pounds is on the light side of torq spec. Can anybody verify this with a suzuki manual, as I got this from Clymers (which is aftermarket).
BTW, although the pan machined edge appeared flawless, I did buff with steel wool and followed with very light sand paper to remove any invisibile burrs, or flashing since this was a new pan... :thumb:
Forgot to mention, the old gasket wasn't split, cracked or anything. In fact I am keeping for a spare.... :icon_lol:
Oil Pan Bolt 8.5-11.5 lb-ft according to the Suzuki Manual.
The old haynes manual for the GSX400 says to use suzukibond -4
Keep in mind that the GSX400 has exacly the same crank cases as the
GS500 and that old Haynes manuals tend to go into more detail.
I used RTV when I refitted the Sump on the GSX400. it hasn't leaked yet.
(6 months an counting)
Quote from: Egaeus on June 08, 2006, 03:48:53 PM
Oil Pan Bolt 8.5-11.5 lb-ft according to the Suzuki Manual.
cool then clymers is right O0
Quote from: red_phil on June 08, 2006, 04:00:11 PM
The old haynes manual for the GSX400 says to use suzukibond -4
Keep in mind that the GSX400 has exacly the same crank cases as the
GS500 and that old Haynes manuals tend to go into more detail.
I used RTV when I refitted the Sump on the GSX400. it hasn't leaked yet.
(6 months an counting)
That's funny, the yamabond had a -4 after it as well. Hopefully they are comparable.
So far so good, last night's hell run didn't produce any leaks. The true test will be this weekend, when we vacation at the beach for a week.