OK, just to let you know I am a complete newbie. Never had a motorcycle in my life up until last week. I have a 2002 GS500 with 1300 miles. completely stock. Starting: I have to use the PRI and full choke to start. Not just when it sits overnight but everytime it stalls. Takes about 5 minutes to warm up (normal). When I take it out it stalls quite a bit especially when down shifting. When I have to restart it has to be on PRI and at least half choke to start. It sometimes will race to 6000 rpm sit there a while before I start to close the choke and then I start to ride again. It seems to stall more when down shifting or just when idleing. Alot when I just stop. I'm affraid to take it far from home for fear of it having a real problem. From reading other posts it seems like a carb problem. :dunno_white: What things should I start to look at and try before completly dissassembling something and not being able to put it back together? Thanks for your kelp in fixing this. I love riding and I hate having to stop and start all the time. By the way I've only gotten it up to 50.... Just practicing for now.
Your carburetors are most likely dirty/clogged. Try some SeaFoam if you're feeling lazy. Try disassembling them and cleaning them if you've got a few hours (for the first time, of course)and are more mechanically inclined. You have a bike that's averaged 325 miles a year. That's not very much. You'll probably have to tinker a bit to get it running right. I recommend going to the donation page (http://www.gstwin.com/gstwin_donation.htm), clicking on the amazon.com link at the bottom, and getting a Haynes manual.
I have the Clymers manual will that do?
I personally hate my Clymer manual. My manual is for 1989-2002. It makes no mention of 3-jet carbs in the 2001-2002 bikes. It gives you an unreliable method of setting float height without telling you how to check the fuel level. It doesn't tell you how to take out the piston guide and emulsion tube so that you can soak the carb. It doesn't tell you how to adjust the air/fuel mixture. It tells you to balance the carbs with expensive and relatively inaccurate vacuum gauges that you can't find anywhere.
Will it work? Yes, but only because you have this site to fall back on.
Sorry to sound ignorant but what are the steps in spraying in the sea foam in the carbs? Do I take the seat off? appologies :dunno_white:
OMG! SAUGUS!
If you get into tearing down your Carbs, call me up, I'll ride down and give you some mechanical support.
I've never done it, but damn if I'm not mechanically inclined enough to be a help.
I"m up in Palmdale.
Sounds great I may just do that. I'll try spraying carb. cleaner in first and fiddle around with it. I just want to ride not deal with this yet. Thanks! :o
are you running on low octane fuel (god, please don't let this turn into an octane thread)
my bike has similar issues on low octane fuel.
otherwise, I am 100% sure a carb rebuilt is what you'll need.
If your extremely lazy you might be able to get away with just droping the float bowls and cleaning the carbs out while they are still mounted, but the carbs are not that hard to remove and rebuild.
be like mike, and just DO IT!
okay, well hell, If you get it running (or just want some one to give it the old once over), we can ride through Boquet Canyon once or twice. Maybe even Spunky Canyon.... Good Easy Riding.
I'd like to get my confidence up in the turns on bouquet. I'll try the lazy method first then look at rebuilding (arg)!
yea, Boquet is actually where I cut my teeth. If you hit it right on sundays, there's virtually NO traffic. My dad and I are usually rollling through there at about 45 or so, so very mellow. You are always more than welcome to join.
Quote from: 3imo on May 24, 2006, 12:25:36 PM
If your extremely lazy you might be able to get away with just droping the float bowls and cleaning the carbs out while they are still mounted, but the carbs are not that hard to remove and rebuild.
I'm not convinced that's the "lazy" way to do it. It would take less than an hour for a total noob to take the carbs off. How long will it take to open the float bowls with the carb still on the bike? Unless you have replaced the phillips screws with hex, I bet you a case of beer that I can have the float bowls off first by taking the carbs off, and I'm sloooow when it comes to wrenching.
yea befor you get in to tearing the carbs out and dont this and checking that then . i'd run some super and some seafoam in it just to see what the effect it ... i'm picky on my gas i normaly get shamrock (texas thing ) or shell .. or chevron ( dont turn this in to a gas thread jack i'm just giving some ideas ) i like shell's V-power the best ( not cuz it says v-power but beacuse i think shell gas is dam good ) i'm the same way with my eclipse but if you run lower then the mid grade in that car it runs like poop.. spend a few bucks put some super in it and some seafoam and see what happens ....
Not to Jack The Thread like the others...
But I too only run Super/Supreme gas. The manual says so.
When was the last time you put gas in the bike? Not saying that you're low on gas, but maybe... Bad Gas?
Quote from: Egaeus on May 24, 2006, 07:58:11 PM
It would take less than an hour for a total noob to take the carbs off.
I can verify this. I am a total wrenching n00b (haven't even changed my own oil yet), and it took less than an hour for me to takes the carbs off. It's pretty painless. Taking the carbs apart, cleaning them, and putting them back together is also painless.
As for putting them together correctly... we'll see once I get them back on the bike...
Quote from: Egaeus on May 24, 2006, 07:58:11 PM
Quote from: 3imo on May 24, 2006, 12:25:36 PM
If your extremely lazy you might be able to get away with just droping the float bowls and cleaning the carbs out while they are still mounted, but the carbs are not that hard to remove and rebuild.
I'm not convinced that's the "lazy" way to do it. It would take less than an hour for a total noob to take the carbs off. How long will it take to open the float bowls with the carb still on the bike? Unless you have replaced the phillips screws with hex, I bet you a case of beer that I can have the float bowls off first by taking the carbs off, and I'm sloooow when it comes to wrenching.
I agree with ya. IMO being lazy causes more work. :dunno_white:
The carbs are way to easy to pull out.
In my defense I have a nifty phillips ratchet screw driver, thats perfect for dropping the bowls. If your were extremely lazy, it is possible to drop the bowls within minutes.
It won't help much cause you can only clean the bowl, gettin to the jets this way is just plain dumb. and if you gonna open your carbs, not cleaning your jets is just dumb.
actually not pulling your carbs is just dumb. It's not hard and the rebuild kit is not expensive. :thumb:
Even with the ratcheting Phillips screwdriver, if you haven't opened the carbs recently, you won't get them off. Stuck Phillips screws require considerable downward pressure which you can't apply with a ratcheting screwdriver (which is why Phillips screws suck IMO).
Quote from: Egaeus on May 25, 2006, 08:22:26 AM
Even with the ratcheting Phillips screwdriver, if you haven't opened the carbs recently, you won't get them off. Stuck Phillips screws require considerable downward pressure which you can't apply with a ratcheting screwdriver (which is why Phillips screws suck IMO).
I was about to hit you with " but, mine come off easy" but then I reread your post. "if you haven't opened the carbs recently"
anyway, the only reason I brought it up was because I got lazy and dropped the bowls, once.
I used compressed air (low psi) on the jets from above. which still required removing the tank and top of Carbs......why am I wasting my time with this?
Rebuild your carbs and be done with it.
If I take apart the carbs to clean them would it also be wise to rejet at the same time?
wouldn't hurt. most recomend it. but if your bone stock, there is no "need".
twer me.....I'd do it. some claim a performance boost. but I dunno from experience.
If I change to premium gas should I drain the tank first then put "new" gas in? Or would mixing not necessarily change performance?
no need to drain, it will mix just fine.
only thing though is that you won't know if it makes a difference if you have a mix. until you refill.
if you have more high octane than low octane, you should notice a difference if thats your problem.
be advised, that some people swear up an down that low octane is ok. I dunno about them.
in my experience low octane fuel causes serious performance issues with both my bikes.
try it and let us know if your symptoms disappear. :cheers:
OK I got a can of carb cleaner. I understand I have to move the tank or remove it to get at the carbs. Once there do I just spray the suff in and let it sit? Are there any parts (plastic, rubber o rings) that I should avoid spraying? Thanks
Quote from: jjwalker98 on May 25, 2006, 10:42:56 PM
OK I got a can of carb cleaner. I understand I have to move the tank or remove it to get at the carbs. Once there do I just spray the suff in and let it sit? Are there any parts (plastic, rubber o rings) that I should avoid spraying? Thanks
Take your carbs out. Remove all rubber and plastic pieces. Spray carb cleaner through every hole and on every surface. Spray carb cleaner through each jet. Let it soak if you want to. Replace all removed pieces, place back on bike, enjoy.
Carb cleaner can deteriorate rubber and make it useless. I don't want to take the risk with plastic either, but I'm anal like that.
Thanks, I'll try it and let you know the outcome.
All right I put in the highest octane available (91 or 92), put on PRI and she started right up with minimal choke required. Went up the street a couple of minutes and turned the choke off. Still purring like a kitten. Took a drive about 10 miles through some twisties (not to crazy) and all was well. It didn't stall once. When I came back home and turned her off I realized I had been running on PRI the whole time :o. Is this going to foul out my plugs? I haven't gotten around to cleaning the carbs out yet. I thought I would try one thing at a time first. Also, I noticed that when idling even after some time riding it looks like it's around 900rpm is that normal or should it be higher? Thanks
mine idles from between 900-1200
And I've been known to ride around on PRI a time or two...
I'm doing Boquet Canyon tomorrow
Quote from: jjwalker98 on May 27, 2006, 03:05:00 PMI realized I had been running on PRI the whole time :o. Is this going to foul out my plugs?
No. In the PRI position the fuel is simply making its way from the fuel tank to the carburetor float bowls via the REServe hose rather than the ON hose, and it is being pulled through the hose by gravity rather than vacuum pressure. Once in the float bowls, the fuel is sucked into the mixture chamber the same way regardless.
Quote from: jjwalker98 on May 27, 2006, 03:05:00 PMI noticed that when idling even after some time riding it looks like it's around 900rpm is that normal or should it be higher? Thanks
For pre-'01 bikes, Suzuki says that the idle should be set at 1200. I prefer to have it closer to 1300, but 1200 is fine. Do you know how to use the idle adjust screw to set it?
I haven't touched it and I'm not exactly sure the way to go about adjusting. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I thought the Clymer's manual said the adjustment srew was not supposed to touched unless the carbs were being rebuilt or cleaned. :dunno_white:
I think that's what it said. But I wouldn't mind bringing it up to where it should be 1200 rpm.
The screw that Clymer says not to mess with is labeled "Mixture Screw" in the photo below (which shows the float bowls removed). Each carburetor has one.
(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_1932_ManjulsBike_Carbs_WithFloatBowlsRemoved_Annotated.jpg)
The "Idle Adjust Knob" is what you turn to adjust the idle up / down to 1200. It pokes downward between the carburetors. Turning it "righty-tighty" will increase the idle RPMs. "Lefty-loosey" will bring them down.
Here's how it looks "in situ" on a pre-'01 model:
(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/DSCF2431_Idle_Drain_Mixture_Screws.jpg)
So, should I let the bike idle or drive around abit before making the adjustment? I assume I want the choke all the way off (forward) correct? When I do turn it I want the bike running to make sure I "see" the reading as I turn it, correct? Thanks for the pics, makes it very helpful and easier to understand what I am doing :thumb:
Choke off, and ride around for 10-15 minutes.
BE CAREFUL!
The engine will be super hot.
Make the adjustment while the engine is running.
Ok it seems like when I am driving let's say 50 and the RPM's begin to lower, say dropping below 5000, I pull in the clutch to downshift and the engine cuts out. There is plenty of fuel in the tank, and it only happens when the petcock is in the ON position. If I do this in PRIme position everything is fine. Since vacuum pressure is used in the ON position to deliver fuel and PRIme position is using gravity does it seem likely that there is a vacuum problem? It still doesn't start back up if in ON position only PRIme. Maybe my shifting wrong but the engine shouldn't die like this should it? Thanks
I just looked at the petcock and there is a clamp missing on the ON line at the petcock. I don't see a leak, but could enough gas escape causing my problems??? :dunno_white:
The whole problem
may turn out to be too little fuel in the tank. The tip-off for me was when you said
"I am driving let's say 50 and
the RPM's begin to lower." (:o)[/list]
To me that sounds like you're either experiencing the all-too-common "fuel starvation" problem, or you need to switch to REServe. The fact that the bike won't start again in the ON position kinda eliminates the "fuel starvation" possibility, because that tends to fix itself after the bike sits for a minute.
You said "There is plenty of fuel in the tank". But since you are, by your own admission, a "complete newbie", let me say that looking at the fuel level in the tank can be deceiving. If you get anywhere near the 1-gallon-left point (still seems to be "plenty of fuel" when you look in the tank), the bike could start bogging down because you need to switch to REServe.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the other hand, if all of this is happening with a FULL tank ... let's try an experiment using the REServe setting.
I mentioned before that both the ON and REServe settings work by vacuum pressure, and that the PRIme setting works by gravity. I think I also mentioned that the PRI setting draws fuel through the REServe hose.
So, here's what we know so far:
| Petcock setting | | Hose | | Fuel draw method | | Bike idles OK? |
| ON | O | Vacuum | :mad: NO |
| PRIme | R | Gravity | :thumb: YES |
| REServe | R | Vacuum | :dunno_white: ?? |
[/list]
If you repeat your ride with the petcock turned to RES, that will eliminate the ON hose from the equation while still testing the vacuum method of fuel delivery. If the bike dies, we can concentrate on vacuum problems. If it runs fine, we can concentrate on the ON hose.
So I went for a 30 min ride today with the petcock on RES. It seems like the same problem exists with it in the ON position. Do I know concentrate on a vacuum leak somewhere? Thanks
Seems like it could also be the petcock valve itself. It seems like there have been many who've had a problem running on ON or RES. What do you think?
lots and lots of people have had a problem with the Petcock.
Quote from: jjwalker98 on June 03, 2006, 01:22:56 PM
So I went for a 30 min ride today with the petcock on RES. It seems like the same problem exists with it in the ON position. Do I know concentrate on a vacuum leak somewhere?
Yep, that's the next step.
Q: What does it mean to say that the ON and RES settings are "governed by vacuum pressure"?
A: When the fuel switch is set to ON or RES, fuel is not allowed to flow through the switch unless an internal diaphragm is actuated.
Q: How is the diaphragm actuated?
A: By vacuum pressure generated
when the engine is running.
Q: How is the vacuum pressure applied?
A: Via a hose that runs from the right side of the right carb (on '01 and '02 models, at least) to the back of the fuel switch.
[/list]
[Just saw your follow-up post,
jjwalker98. Hang on ... we'll get there!]
So, the next thing to check is everything related to that vacuum hose and its connections:
* Any splits, cracks, etc in the hose?
* Is the hose kinked or pinched in any way?
* Is the hose connected tightly on both ends?
IF your bike passes all of these tests, THEN we look at the petcock itself.
The hoses have that black netting on them. Do I have to take it off to check the hoses? Do I only need to check the vacuum hose? Thanks
Yes, just check the vacuum hose.
I know that the ON and RES hoses have black netting on them. Does the vacuum hose have netting too? I've only (briefly) seen the "innards" of one '01+ bike, and that was a couple years ago ... so I can't remember.
A hose that new shouldn't have splits, etc. A kink or pinch would be more likely. It's up to you - how thorough you want to be.
Ok looking around the petcock I was able to see one hose not connected to the petcock. It's the connector towards the front of the petcock and looks like 1/4" hose. The three others are bigger probably 5/16". I followed the hose and it seemes like it goes pretty high up in the carb (I can't see exactly where because it's not visible). I'm hoping this is the vacuum hose. It seems cracked probably why it came off, also no clamp around. If so what kind of tubing do I need? Would any bike shop carry that size or auto store? Does the thickness matter? Thanks for all your help thus far?
Hey! Progress! :thumb:
I haven't had to replace my vacuum hose, so I'm not sure about the diameters.
Is the current hose long enough that you could cut off the cracked part and reattach it?
I'll try it but I'll have to get a clamp. Thanks
So I hooked up the "vent" hose went for a 15 mile ride (didn't want to go to far from home) and all was perfect. The idle was high (3,000) so I lowered it to about 1700. The bike ran flawlessly in the ON position of the petcock. I guess I just need to make sure all hoses are attached. At least I didn't take apart the engine just to see a hose not hooked up. :icon_lol:I'm very happy to be riding again. Thanks to all who had some input into getting the bike running properly. (yahoo!!!)
FANTASTIC!! :thumb:
Good for you! :thumb:
You were wise to not do anything drastic before trying all "less drastic" options. Always think it through as far as you can before picking up a wrench.
All that's left is to reduce the idle so it's closer to the Suzuki-recommended 1200 RPM. (When the engine is warm.)