Poll
I think that's possible. What I don't think is possible is breaking the the first law of thermodynamics. They don't have to spend money on bullshit; it takes care of itself.
An experimental prototype that didn't meet safety regulations and was exempted by NHTSA with the condition that they be taken off the road at the end of their lease? What's your point? Oh, you mean the kickbacks by the oil companies that have obviously kept GM at the top of the automotive heap....
Again, you can't get something for nothing. You can't make a generator that powers itself and supplies power. You can't make an engine that drives electrolysis and runs off the byproducts as well as driving the wheels of a car. You will never get more out than you put in, and that's what you're asking for with these harebrained schemes.
Whoa! Like, you mean, like, it's like REGULAR water!? Like!? ??? :laugh:
Question: What do you think of an engine running on water?
Option 1: 
votes: 4
votes: 4
Option 2: Let me talk to my chem professor first
votes: 2
Option 3: It's a hoax!
votes: 13
Title: Water Fuel
Post by: JetSwing on May 25, 2006, 08:00:05 AM
Post by: JetSwing on May 25, 2006, 08:00:05 AM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8573013059814306652
Title: Re: Water Fuel
Post by: 3imo on May 25, 2006, 08:21:49 AM
Post by: 3imo on May 25, 2006, 08:21:49 AM
http://www.keelynet.com/
I have been reading about this for years, from the research I've done, it seems noone has yet disproven the actual science behind it.
there have been many hoaxes but the lie was in the discovery not in the science.
museumofhoaxes.com has an entry and they came up with the same thing.
Snopes.com doesn't even mention it.
If this guy is legit, his lotech approach will be easy to duplicate once he tries to market it. Especially once the internet starts spreading his secret recipe.
I have been reading about this for years, from the research I've done, it seems noone has yet disproven the actual science behind it.
there have been many hoaxes but the lie was in the discovery not in the science.
museumofhoaxes.com has an entry and they came up with the same thing.
Snopes.com doesn't even mention it.
If this guy is legit, his lotech approach will be easy to duplicate once he tries to market it. Especially once the internet starts spreading his secret recipe.
Title: Re: Water Fuel
Post by: 3imo on May 25, 2006, 08:30:00 AM
Post by: 3imo on May 25, 2006, 08:30:00 AM
http://www.keelynet.com/energy/waterfuel.htm
this is a DIY kit. I can't find anyone claiming to have made it work.
but I also can't find anyone claiming it won't. You can't trust the "science" you find on the internet.
but this is very convincing.
I am a skeptic by nature. If you can find someone proving this won't work, Please let me know.
this is a DIY kit. I can't find anyone claiming to have made it work.
but I also can't find anyone claiming it won't. You can't trust the "science" you find on the internet.
but this is very convincing.
I am a skeptic by nature. If you can find someone proving this won't work, Please let me know.
Title: Re: Water Fuel
Post by: Codger on May 25, 2006, 08:43:53 AM
Post by: Codger on May 25, 2006, 08:43:53 AM
The key is the energy balance.
Big Steaming Heaping Pile of BS.
Big Steaming Heaping Pile of BS.
Title: Re: Water Fuel
Post by: LimaXray on May 25, 2006, 08:55:35 AM
Post by: LimaXray on May 25, 2006, 08:55:35 AM
It's BS, it's all BS. It's just not possible, there is no chemical energy in water. I mean I guess if you had the whole fusion thing figured out you could use water for fuel, but do you really want people driving around with nuclear reactors? Not to mention how bad it would be you'd replace the world's water supply with a lot of oxygen and helium. I guess he could really just be running it on hydrogen which is nothing special.
Anyway, that link that 3imo gave is also BS. It looks like they're just using electrolysis to make hydrogen. This won't work because:
1) if everything was perfect with 100% efficiency, it would take all of the energy the engine produced to support the electrolysis. Of course it's not 100% efficient, it's probably less than 30% efficient, so it will take additional outside energy to run the thing, thus defeating the whole point.
2) if you've ever done electrolysis in a chemistry class you know it is fairly slow, WAAAY too slow to produce fuel in real time. You could put that nuclear power plant in your trunk and bang out that hydrogen fast enough, but again you defeat the whole purpose.
In the end it's all physics, you can't just make energy, you need to get it from somewhere.
Anyway, that link that 3imo gave is also BS. It looks like they're just using electrolysis to make hydrogen. This won't work because:
1) if everything was perfect with 100% efficiency, it would take all of the energy the engine produced to support the electrolysis. Of course it's not 100% efficient, it's probably less than 30% efficient, so it will take additional outside energy to run the thing, thus defeating the whole point.
2) if you've ever done electrolysis in a chemistry class you know it is fairly slow, WAAAY too slow to produce fuel in real time. You could put that nuclear power plant in your trunk and bang out that hydrogen fast enough, but again you defeat the whole purpose.
In the end it's all physics, you can't just make energy, you need to get it from somewhere.
Title: Re: Water Fuel
Post by: 3imo on May 25, 2006, 09:18:45 AM
Post by: 3imo on May 25, 2006, 09:18:45 AM
Thats what all the scientific site say, especially about the electrlosis. My sister (the physics wiz) said what you said LX, damn near word for word.
The link from Jetswing shows the guy doing some magic (without adding any kind of energy) with a box. He said he submitted a patent. I guess we will have to wait and see.
As a true skeptic you cannot rule out the possibilty simply because the "known" science disagrees.
Galileo said the world was round and traveled around the sun. He was "wrong" according to "known" science at the time.
I refuse to believe its bullshit until he is revealed as a fraud. o'course I won't be sending him money either.
The link from Jetswing shows the guy doing some magic (without adding any kind of energy) with a box. He said he submitted a patent. I guess we will have to wait and see.
As a true skeptic you cannot rule out the possibilty simply because the "known" science disagrees.
Galileo said the world was round and traveled around the sun. He was "wrong" according to "known" science at the time.
I refuse to believe its bullshit until he is revealed as a fraud. o'course I won't be sending him money either.
Title: Re: Water Fuel
Post by: natedawg120 on May 25, 2006, 09:25:01 AM
Post by: natedawg120 on May 25, 2006, 09:25:01 AM
yeah i am interested to see what comes of this. I will keep an eye on it but i find it very hard to believe.
Title: Re: Water Fuel
Post by: RVertigo on May 25, 2006, 11:42:12 AM
Post by: RVertigo on May 25, 2006, 11:42:12 AM
Secret formula == Petrol :laugh:
Title: Re: Water Fuel
Post by: TheGoodGuy on May 25, 2006, 04:43:52 PM
Post by: TheGoodGuy on May 25, 2006, 04:43:52 PM
yeah teh diagrams look like electrolysis.
Trust me its too slow that way. When i need to generate fuel for my fuel cell car that built, i use the fuelcell in reverse mode.. it is SO MUCH faster than electrolsis. It will split a 300ml of water in a few minutes into hydrogen and oxygen. Which i can reuse for a the fuelcell to generate energy in normal mode.
Problem!.. it takes 3v or greater to break the water into fuel, it generates 1.8v - 2v to create energy and make water.
needless to say its not efficient.. I havent worked on it in like 2 summers.. Maybe this summer i should work on it and make it more effecient.
Trust me its too slow that way. When i need to generate fuel for my fuel cell car that built, i use the fuelcell in reverse mode.. it is SO MUCH faster than electrolsis. It will split a 300ml of water in a few minutes into hydrogen and oxygen. Which i can reuse for a the fuelcell to generate energy in normal mode.
Problem!.. it takes 3v or greater to break the water into fuel, it generates 1.8v - 2v to create energy and make water.
needless to say its not efficient.. I havent worked on it in like 2 summers.. Maybe this summer i should work on it and make it more effecient.
Title: Re: Water Fuel
Post by: Egaeus on May 26, 2006, 07:39:56 AM
Post by: Egaeus on May 26, 2006, 07:39:56 AM
How can I believe he's turned water into fuel and is running a motorcycle on it when he can't even ride it well?
Title: Re: Water Fuel
Post by: pandy on May 26, 2006, 07:42:18 AM
Post by: pandy on May 26, 2006, 07:42:18 AM
If there were truly a way to run vehicles using water, we'd ALL be doing it! :cookoo:
Title: Re: Water Fuel
Post by: Egaeus on May 26, 2006, 07:55:53 AM
Post by: Egaeus on May 26, 2006, 07:55:53 AM
Of course it's true! I seen it on the internets! See (http://www.biosmeanslife.com/)?
Title: Re: Water Fuel
Post by: pandy on May 26, 2006, 08:37:33 AM
Post by: pandy on May 26, 2006, 08:37:33 AM
Well....DUH! No one told me it was on the INTERNET! Where do I fill up!? :laugh:
Title: Re: Water Fuel
Post by: Queso on May 26, 2006, 09:02:57 AM
Post by: Queso on May 26, 2006, 09:02:57 AM
You think it's possible that some multi-billionaires might spend a few million squishing threatening competition secretly? What do you think would happen if a superior means of transportation were released into the market? Oil would go kaput. Look up GM's EV1, sometime, and find out what happened for yourself. Overunity generators and compact electrolysis systems are too complex. There are simple electrical properties that have limitless potential were they explored...
Title: Re: Water Fuel
Post by: Egaeus on May 27, 2006, 05:50:04 PM
Post by: Egaeus on May 27, 2006, 05:50:04 PM
Quote from: pandy on May 26, 2006, 08:37:33 AMJust grab your garden hose and go to town. :icon_mrgreen:
Well....DUH! No one told me it was on the INTERNET! Where do I fill up!? :laugh:
Quote from: Queso on May 26, 2006, 09:02:57 AM
You think it's possible that some multi-billionaires might spend a few million squishing threatening competition secretly?
I think that's possible. What I don't think is possible is breaking the the first law of thermodynamics. They don't have to spend money on bullshit; it takes care of itself.
Quote from: Queso on May 26, 2006, 09:02:57 AM
Look up GM's EV1, sometime, and find out what happened for yourself.
An experimental prototype that didn't meet safety regulations and was exempted by NHTSA with the condition that they be taken off the road at the end of their lease? What's your point? Oh, you mean the kickbacks by the oil companies that have obviously kept GM at the top of the automotive heap....
Quote from: Queso on May 26, 2006, 09:02:57 AM
Overunity generators and compact electrolysis systems are too complex. There are simple electrical properties that have limitless potential were they explored...
Again, you can't get something for nothing. You can't make a generator that powers itself and supplies power. You can't make an engine that drives electrolysis and runs off the byproducts as well as driving the wheels of a car. You will never get more out than you put in, and that's what you're asking for with these harebrained schemes.
Title: Re: Water Fuel
Post by: Phaedrus on May 27, 2006, 05:58:54 PM
Post by: Phaedrus on May 27, 2006, 05:58:54 PM
Well, with all of the nuclear pollutants in the water these days...I don't think it is that much of a stretch :icon_razz:
Title: Re: Water Fuel
Post by: pandy on May 27, 2006, 07:16:21 PM
Post by: pandy on May 27, 2006, 07:16:21 PM
Quote from: Egaeus on May 27, 2006, 05:50:04 PM
Just grab your garden hose and go to town. :icon_mrgreen:
Whoa! Like, you mean, like, it's like REGULAR water!? Like!? ??? :laugh: