I'm coming home from work yesterday, turn into a parking lot, going about 30 or so, all of a sudden I hear a click, my back tire locks up, and my engine dies. The guys at the Jiffy Lube saw my back tire leave th eground about 6 inches, and thought I was going down for sure. I didn't, but I did leave a prett cool 25 foot skid mark. My chain had left the rear sprocket- it didn't break entirely, but it mostly broke 1 link. It was jammed between the sprocket and the bar, so that I couldn't move the bike. It sheared the tips off two of the sprocket bolts, gauged and bent the bar just a little. I had to force it off the sprocket to move it. My clutch lever is completely slack. I also wasn't able to move the shifter to find neutral.
So I had it towed home, and now I need to know what to look for. I lost my stupid clymer manual, so any help I could get would be great. I think I know what to take off, but I don't know what to look for for damage. Obviously I'll want to replace the chain and both sprockets. Is the clutch dead, tranny dead? :dunno_white: Any help would be MUCH appreciated.
Wow, glad you and the GS are alright.
I'm interested in what caused this too :dunno_white:
The chain probably broke the clutch pushrod. Might also have broken the clutch actuating screwy thingamajig.
Take off the sprocket cover, then you'll know more.
i'll take it off and post some pics
when my chain went it took out the clutch push rod.
That makes your clutch go all slack.
I lucked out and my chain came off completely so this didn't cause my rear tire to lock up like yours did.
is having your chain snap a common problem?
how many k's (or miles) were on your bikes?
18300 miles. I bought it 1000 miles ago, rebuilt carbs, changed fork seals, spark plugs, air box, etc. I would guess it was probably the original chain. Chain and sprockets were next on my to do list anyway. Now it looks like I'll probably need a new clutch pushrod. How much does that cost?
Quote from: galahs on May 27, 2006, 08:43:02 AM
is having your chain snap a common problem?
It would only be common if you buy cheap chains and don't clean, lubricate and adjust regularily. Mostly, it's just the lack of cleaning, lubricating and proper adjustment.
Remember: .8 to 1.2 inches of slack. Too tight will contribute to chain failure.
Quote from: BaoQingTian on May 27, 2006, 09:06:43 AM[...] I'll probably need a new clutch pushrod. How much does that cost?
I could list some prices for the part, but it's probably better if you check them out yourself. Look under the CLUTCH section of each of the vendors listed HERE (http://www.bbburma.net/Documents/GS500_Parts_Fiche_1.html). As you get into the bike and assess the damage, you may find that other parts need to be replaced too, and you'll be able to price them yourself.
PS - If you're in any kind of a hurry, you may as well call / visit your local dealer ... AFTER you have priced the parts online. If the dealer has them in stock (a long shot, I know :icon_rolleyes:) you could save a bunch of time. Even if you have to order the parts, you might actually save money -- they usually don't charge you for shipping.
Here's some pics:
Here's the back of the bike. I'm worried about the frame...it seems to be bent. Is that a problem?
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i184/idahoeeboy/Image00008.jpg)
The chain sheared off the tips of the bolts and gouged the sprocket as well.
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i184/idahoeeboy/Image00003.jpg)
Below is what appears to be the culprit. I would guess the chain was too loose, and bound up when I was taking that turn under hard acceleration. This caused a link to break halfway at the rear sprocket and for the chain to come off the rear sprocket. If anyone has any different ideas, please let me know.
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i184/idahoeeboy/Image00005.jpg)
I believe that this is the clutch pushrod that Markus was talking about
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i184/idahoeeboy/Image00007.jpg)
Does everything look normal here? Or do I need to disassemble it futher to check inside?
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i184/idahoeeboy/Image00006.jpg)
Any help would be appreciated. Oh, one more thing. I can't seem to get the chain off the inner sprocket. I know that there's a chain breaker- is it small enough that it could work in that tight of a space? Or is there a way to get that sprocket off? Thanks for your help all. I guess I need to order another Clymer since it appears that I can fix this problem after all.
wow you were lucky that didnt destroy the whole casing,
good luck:D
The only thing keeping the sprocket in place (besides the chain) is the circlip on the end of the countershaft -- the "toothed" shaft that the sprocket is mounted on.
To remove the circlip you would ideally use a set of snap ring pliers (http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_2032_FrontSprocketTools.jpg) to spread the two holes apart. Folks have come up with various no-cost solutions as well.
Once the circlip pops off, you should be able to pull / wiggle the sprocket off the countershaft. Of course, the chain will need to move horizontally along with it....
Ow Ow Ow! Lucky you weren't on the interstate when that happened!
Either the chain was running very loose, or it seized due to a lack of lubricant or sand infiltration.
Replace your sprockets, clutch pushrod, and the damaged hardware. Disassemble the clutch cam inside the cover. Clean and lubricate it before reassembly. Clean everything else while you're at it, and inspect closely for damage. Check the gear shift rod boss for cracks and check that the rod is true. Check for hidden damage in the chainpath as well.
Ouch, that doesn't look fun. If you would like a hand fixing that, let me know, I'd love to help. I wrenched on my GS quite a bit before selling it.
Looks like your shifter rod is toast too:(...or that's a grese ball over the bearing.. in the one picture.
I would dissassemble the swing arm and make sure it didn't get twisted while the rear tire was off.
Before any re-assembly tho I would check and recheck all the bearings' free play. If they are out of round that part that spins there is bad too...
Good news tho is that the clutch is is A ok once you get that pushrod replaced. When that rod snapped the clutch cable goes completly slack and the clutch is locked into engaged
clutch pushrod is done, use a hammer and punch to pop the buched up chain section towards the front of the bike, the shifter shaft is going to be bend and perhaps some cracks around that area in the cases, but you will need the chain off and sprocket removed to loook closely. you might be ok with the shifter shaft but eather way the clutch cover must come off and clutch pressure plate removed so you can push the rest of the broken clutch rod out from the other side its about 5" long total and you had about 3 in your hand. if the shifter shaft IS toast then removing the clutch basket is the next item inline to get the shaft out.
The clutch actuator cam looks OK. Cleaning and checking it won't hurt, though.
You should be able to grab the remainder of the clutch pushrod with pliers and pull it out from the sprocket side. You see it in the third picture right in front of the sprocket.
If you were lucky and the shifter shaft was not bent you might get away without any more motor disassembly (apart from taking off the sprocket.)
Take a very close look at that swingarm. If it's bent or twisted get an used one to replace it. (They are plentyful on eBay.de. Dunno about the States.)
As for the sprocket bolts: grind or file the top of bolts and nut flat; you should then be able to disassemble.
Looking at how that chain got jammed in there I'm concerned for the sprocket shaft and its bearing as well. Be sure to observe this region for strange noises and the sprocket shaft for true running.
You are one lucky MF'er... Your chain looks like shaZam! and it had to have been pretty loose to do that!!
LUCKY LUCKY you were seriously screwed up by that!!
Sorry, I'm brand new to wrenching on bikes. I've turned my house upside down for the Clymer manual and can't find it. I don't know what the shifter rod is. I also don't know what the swingarm is or clutch actuator cam. I assume the shifter rod is what my foot presses to change gears when the clutch is engaged. The swingarm I don't have a clue. Could someone point those out to me? I don't mind replacing stuff that might be broken. An extra 20 bucks is no big deal.
The swingarm is the section of the frame which holds the rear wheel. It moves up and down and is held in place by a large bolt like a rear axel bolt. The swingarm is attached to your rear shock. Its all about rear suspension. The shifter rod is what you change gear with - yea. I think your best bet would be to find someone on here or a few of them :) who could come over to your place and help you get it sorted. Im sure there's loads of people willing to strip down a GS :icon_mrgreen:
Remember, DID is the best chain you can get. I've used the others, and they are junk compared to DID.
Ok, I managed to get the chain off after about 20 minutes of working the sprocket. It was really wedged in there. I found neutral, and the shaft seemed to spin without a problem. I also managed to get the rest of the pushrod out. A pair of pliers did the trick. It was smooth on the inner end, so I'm pretty sure I got all of it. Now all I have to do is buy an o-ring chain, front and rear sprocket, and a clutch pushrod, right?
How to I make sure the swing arm isn't bent....just spin the wheel and make sure it doesn't wobble?
Yea, just spin the wheel, it should move smoothly without the chain attached and shouldn't wobble. Also you shouldn't feel any stiff spots or frictions spots when the wheel spins. It should move freely.
Quote from: BaoQingTian on May 29, 2006, 04:23:41 PMNow all I have to do is buy an o-ring chain, front and rear sprocket, and a clutch pushrod, right?
You'll also need a sprocket attachment bolt or two, plus fitting nuts. Unfortunately these ore not standard M10, but finer threaded ones. The bolts are special bolts whose heads fit the recesses of the sprocket carrier (that is the aluminum hub whereupon the rear sprocket is mounted.)
QuoteHow to I make sure the swing arm isn't bent....just spin the wheel and make sure it doesn't wobble?
Visually check with the rear plates and chain tensioners removed to un-clutter the field of view. A bent swingarm won't cause the wheel to wobble, but it will run out of true nonetheless. (Tilted to the left or right.)
The clutch actuator cam is the thingamajig attached to the sprocket cover that converts the pulling motion of the cable into lateral pressure on the clutch pushrod.
If the shifter shaft is bent you will have trouble to re-fit the sprocket cover and the shifter will bind in there (that is a rather tight fit; It won't work properly if the shifter shaft does not run true.)
Sounds like you need another hobby. Something that doesn't involve maintenance or thinking....
Quote from: MarkusN on May 30, 2006, 08:02:42 AM
Quote from: BaoQingTian on May 29, 2006, 04:23:41 PMNow all I have to do is buy an o-ring chain, front and rear sprocket, and a clutch pushrod, right?
You'll also need a sprocket attachment bolt or two, plus fitting nuts. Unfortunately these ore not standard M10, but finer threaded ones. The bolts are special bolts whose heads fit the recesses of the sprocket carrier (that is the alluminum hub whereupon the rear sprocket is mounted.)
The clutch actuator cam is the thingamajig attached to the sprocket cover that converts the pulling motion of the cable into lateral pressure on the clutch pushrod.
If the shifter shaft is bent you will have trouble to re-fit the sprocket cover and the shifter will bind in there (that is a rather tight fit; It won't work properly if the shifter shaft does not run true.)
Ok, so the sprocket attachment bolts (and nuts) I'll need are to replace the two that the chain ate up coming off the rear sprocket.
I figured out what you meant by the clutch actuator cam and checked it. The bearings looked fine and when pulled it did come out slightly laterally (I could see how this moves the pushrod in). Part of the problem is that I've never seen this apart when it is working before, and my clymer manual disappeared.
Is there an easy way to get the shifter rod out, or is some major disassembly required? I could put the cover on right now without a chain and sprocket installed and if it goes on and I can shift, is all well?
The sad ironic thing of all this is that the day before I had printed out Kerry's chain and sprocket sheet and was visiting the sites comparing prices. I was hoping to install the new chain and sprockets this weekend anyway.
Thanks for the help everyone, it has been much appreciated.
Quote from: BaoQingTian on May 30, 2006, 08:22:17 AM
I figured out what you meant by the clutch actuator cam and checked it. The bearings looked fine and when pulled it did come out slightly laterally (I could see how this moves the pushrod in). Part of the problem is that I've never seen this apart when it is working before, and my clymer manual disappeared.
It's probably OK, doesn't look as if it took a hit.
QuoteIs there an easy way to get the shifter rod out, or is some major disassembly required? I could put the cover on right now without a chain and sprocket installed and if it goes on and I can shift, is all well?
No easy way to take this out, but it ain't necessary. Do exactly as you propose.
Quote from: ballyhoo on May 30, 2006, 08:10:00 AM
Sounds like you need another hobby. Something that doesn't involve maintenance or thinking....
Yeah, like being a board troll or something :nono:
QuoteHow to I make sure the swing arm isn't bent..
most the time we are guessing unless someone has the design specs, should you getwhere youdont trust it or just rather swap out the swingarm, send me a pm, i have an extra one i can let go cheap.
I personally would imagine the swingarm would be fine. The chain would be weaker than the swingarm at those angles, if anything got slightly damaged i would say the rear sproket would be shreaded rather than bending the swingarm, i could be wrong though.
There is what looks like some Red Dust on the chain in one of the pics, thats a sign of dryness and no lubrication. Any chance of a pic of the broken chain ends to give us a clue as to how or why it broke?
Well, to be honest I'm undecided on whether the chain broke, causing the slack which bound it up around the shift arm, or if the reverse happened- the chain was too slack causing the bind up which ripped it off the rear sprocket by breaking the chain. I'm kind of leaning toward option 2, because it did feel a bit slack.
I assume the aggressive left hand turn, the mid-turn gear shift, and sudden throttle caused it to go when it did, rather than on the straight highway.
As so your question, I bought the bike for pretty cheap, but it needed a lot done. In the last month, I've cleaned out the gas tank, changed the hoses and replaced the inline fuel filter, rebuilt the carbs, changed out the air filter, changed the oil, changed the plugs, and changed the fork seals and oil since the right one was leaking. I lubed the chain, noticed it was slack, and found what parts to order.
I was leaving town for Memorial Day weekend, so I planned on replacing the chain and sprockets this coming weekend. I didn't realize how bad of condition is was in. When I took off the cover, there was a ton of o-rings underneath the shifter.
I think the best thing I could have done to prevent this would have been not to ride it until I had replaced the chain and sprockets. Second best would have been to tighten the chain until it could be replaced. I just kept riding it because my wife and I only have 2 vehicles (the bike is one of them) and work 15 miles away from each other.
So I guess the moral of my story is not to ride with iffy components even if you need to. Cause when it breaks you won't be riding anyway and you just might injure yourself in the process. I was just really lucky.
I got my 1992 gs a couple of weeks ago with 10400 miles on it.I am not sure of previous owners mantanence on the bike but the chain looked realy nasty.I cleaned and lubed seems ok but after this story i think i will replace it. Is a DID professional oring 520V the correct chain for the bike, and how many links ? Bike bandit sells chains with different amount of links
The one I ordered had 110 links. I believe that is correct.
Here's the picture of the spot the chain was broken, as requested
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i184/idahoeeboy/Image00002.jpg)
Uggg that's a terrible pic. Sorry.
The chain on a motorcycle is literally the "weakest link." It requires maintenance (tightening, cleaning, and oiling) way beyond anything else on the bike. The owner's manual calls for doing this every 600 miles. Say, at least twice as often as changing the engine oil.
Not having a shop manual, or at least an owner's manual, is the definition of stupidity. Thinking you can ride safely without doing routine maintenance is just plain stupid.
Hard to tell from a fuzzy photo, but it looks like the chain failed when it jumped the sprocket. I would expect a catastrophic failure of the pin or sideplates to be symmetrical. Check the sprockets for severe galling which might point to the location where the chain jumped.
Regardless, replace the sprockets and chain with new. If you maintain the new drive parts carefully you won't encounter this problem again. :thumb:
Thanks. My new chain and two sprockets should be here tomorrow. If the dealer made the cutoff, then my 3 sprocket bolts and nuts and clutch pushrod should also be here then. I stuck with stock although the 15 or 14 tooth front was tempting. I use it more for commuting than as a toy, so I figured gas mileage and comfortable crusing would be better.
The clymer manual seems pretty straightforward on removing the rear wheel, but if I have any questions I'll be sure to ask. I searched posts for this and it came up pretty bare, so I'm assuming it's so simple that there won't be a lot of questions. The least fun part will be using the Dremmel or hacksaw to get the ends of those bolts cleaned up so the nuts will come off.
Thanks for all the tips everyone. If I ever buy a 15 year old bike again, I'll be sure to replace the chain and sprockets first, instead of just getting it to run and then choosing a project a weekend while being tempted to ride in between. ;)
Hi there,
I'm glad you are OK after all this, but by looking at the photos, I'd say you haven't been lubing that chain at all -- leading to the calamity you experienced.
The lubricant doesn't just keep the chain from rusting but also provides a "cushion" of sorts between the metal of the chain rollers and the sprocket teeth, keeping them from wearing excessively. Without that cushion of lubricant, the metal to metal contact causes metal to run hotter, and leads to premature and catastrophic failure, as you experienced.
Be sure to keep the new chain properly adjusted -- .8 to 1.2 inches of slack in mid span of the chain with the bike on its sidestand -- and lubricate it well and OFTEN with good chain lube, such as PJ1 Black Label. The photos of the area around the countershaft sprocket are devoid of oil on your bike -- mine is a happy, well-lubed, chain lube covered mess. On your bike I can see the engine castings there, on my bike there is a coating of thick black chain lube in there that has flung off the chain over time. That's what you want to see if you want to avoid having this happen again. Be careful and good luck,
Best wishes,
Todd
Thanks will do. I've only had the bike for a month, so most of the lack of maintanence was from the previous owner. There was just so much to do and I prioritized my list wrong. I should have replaced the chain first. I actually did use motor oil to lube the chain (my dirty back wheel will attest to that), but it obviously needed to be replaced.
I'll be sure to follow your advice on the new chain and keep it very well lubed.
After looking at the pic I think without doubt the failure was due to lack of lubrication as there is plenty of red oxide dust visable. One of the side plates failed, the opposite side plate has instantly seen a 100% load increase which it cant handle and has bent as a result. The chain has then run off the sprocket and jammed the drivetrain. Here is an interesting link relating to chain failures.
http://www.renold.com/Renold/web/site/Support/Chain_Troubleshooter.asp
Update:
I got my chain and two sprockets in from Dennis Kirk today. My clutch pushrod and 3 bolts & nuts for the rear sprocket should be in tomorrow at the local dealer. I'll also be picking up some chain wax (from Maxim I think) then as well. A co-worker recommended it, I guess you spray it on after a ride and then it kind of thickens up.
I managed to get the rear and front sprocket both off. I only had to use the Dremmel on two of the rear sprocket bolts. Any other tips and tricks to changing it that aren't in the Clymer (I know for example the float height measurement was a little more clear in the Haynes than in my Clymer)? Are there any 'initial' things I need to do for a new chain and sprocket set such as break in, extra wax, no wax, etc?
Thanks.
Nothing special for the sprockets, except maybe getting the torque right on the rear sprocket nuts.
But getting the new chain on might be an adventure. See if this thread (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=11925.msg100101#msg100101) helps any. (Read carefully!)
I discovered a neat little trick the other day to get the chain to link up, maybe ive just been blinded by stupidity or it just doesn't occur to people. When ive taken my chain off (its a split link (master link chain)) ive been putting it back on and been stuggling to get the chain ends to meet up enough to slip the master ling through, well the other day i put the chain back on by rolling it onto the rear sproket at both ends, so the end meet while meshed with the rear sproket, this ment they gap was perfect and the master link slipped in a treat. I dunno whether everyone already does this and ive just been stupid for a long time but it was 100x easier to do.
A good way to get an awkward chain to meet right for the master link is to us a cable tie.
Just put the tie arouns th rollers of the loose ends then click the cable tie tighter until the gap is right for getting the link in.
once done you snip the cable tie and remove.
The GS500 chain tends to be not too bad for this but on other bikes it can be a damn useful trick.
Ok, I got everything put together last night. My rear tire doesn't spin very freely though- the rotor rubs against the brake pad. I went for a spin around the block, and everything worked ok except for the rear brake.
The pedal seemed somewhat slack, like I'd press it and not much would happen. Also, when the bike is on the centerstand the plates are actually rubbing slightly against the rotor. I was very careful not to press the brake pedal while the wheel was off, and had a small piece of wood between the plates while the wheel was off as the clymer manual suggested. I'm not quite sure what the problem is. I haven't found a lot on this board involving this specific problem.
I was going to make a new thread, but I figured the background info in this thread might be useful.
Thanks in advance.
There's not a lot of "horizontal adjustability" on the rear axle. Are you sure you put everything back where it came from?
(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_1443_RearAxleWithHardware.jpg)
The really shiny silver ring didn't come out when I pulled the axle bolt. Also on the left hand side I have a v shaped piece of metal that secures the brake to the axle. I put that between the swing arm and the spacer.
I think perhaps I haven't been to clear, Kerry. It appears that the brake is always partially closed around the rotor, not that it's rubbing on one side and not the other. As far as I can tell, both sides are making contact.
Is this something that could be fixed by bleeding the brake system? Sorry, I'm at work, if I was at home I'd take a picture for you.
The brakes should always make a very slight constant contact with the brake disc both front and back. Its entirely normal. When the chain is on and such if you spin the back wheel it should stop rotating in under a turn if you use average force. The wheel should not spin freely when the brake disc is attached.
Thanks, I got the same response from a guy at work. I guess I'm just overly paranoid now about safety maintanence issues.
I guess that about wraps this topic up. I appreciate everyone's help. Hopefully anyone that is thinking about putting off chain maintanence comes across it.
--Jared
if the brake is draging AND the peddle needs to be pumped then either you have air in the brake system OR your rear wheel isnt quite aligned right
Well, the fact that the brake needed to be pumped scared me so I turned around and headed home. Talking to a friend, I figure I must have compressed the brake piston while wedging something in there while the wheel was off. This is what required the initial pumping. Taking it out again, it's been fine. And I guess a little bit of drag is normal. I rode it 15 miles this morning to work, and it's rides like a new bike, it's great.
Thanks all.