Well, I build these for the Suzuki TL1000S and TL1000R and I was considering whipping something up for the GS crowd. The swingarm won't be the cast piece pictured below; it'll be a tubular steel piece that will utilyze the stock shock assembly (look at the Le Mans swingarm for a styling cue). the only problem forseen is that the wheels I have available are 5.5" and bigger...which means that you'll be stuck running a 170~190 series tire. This isn't exactly a problem, but it won't be for everyone.
I can already say that bolt in, ready to roll kits are going to run at least $890 (shipping domestic) but I can forsee expenses running close to $11xx for various items. The base kit would come with the Brembo wheel shown below, but I can offer a 5-spoke Marchesini for an additional fee. Kits will include a Brembo rear caliper. Kits will require that a GS swingarm be exchanged (core, but not an expensive one).
Anyway, here's the current offering from Mak's Kitchen:
(http://www.photoartclub.net/tls/tls6.JPG)
Wit the TL I completely replace the stock suspension for something infinitely superior...
(http://www.photoartclub.net/instructions/twocans1.jpg)
(http://www.photoartclub.net/showa/showa4.JPG)
Let me know what you guys think.
Is there a benefit to a SSSA other than looks? $1000 is steeeeeeeeeep.
I understand that you can't sell them at a loss, but I just can't see people putting that kinda money into...well, this kinda bike.
Dave
Adjustable wheel base and the TL lost 11lbs (7lbs from the rotating assembly). Not sure how much the rotating assembly and swingarm weigh on the GS, though. Resale value goes up a bit. Other than that it's primarilly looks...I'm sure things like the larger rotor, superior (and gold) rear caliper, larger availabillity of sticky tires, the nifty exclusivity, vast selection of alternate wheels (including lots of carbon fiber and magnesium bits) and such will come to me later.
$890 isn't really that steep...especially for this variety of modification. In the world of sssa's I'm as cheap as it gets...unless you're a machinest and have good sources.
I think it'd be sweet, freaking sweet, but how hard is it to do (put on) And hell I'd even put it on my bike
Installation on the TL is about as difficult as it can be...you have to remove 11 bolts just to get the stock suspension componentry out. Then you have to pull the exhaust and then break a couple of hanging brackets off the seat and tank catches to relocate various sensors. Then brake the chain, rear brake line and several other tedious bits. Then aligning the pivot bolt can be a real pain in the ass because of the varience in size between the bolt, bearings and frame lugs. This all takes about 2 hours and 4 beers if you actually work and have all the tools there and clean shaZam! as you go, and a complete ametuer can do it with zero experience (I watched one do it).
With the GS, you'd pull the swingarm/shock link bolt, rear break line, chain, and pivot bolt out then take the old swingarm out. Then stick the new swingarm in and put it all back together like you took it apart. About 5 million fewer steps and I could do it when I was 5...with my plastic craftsmen play-tool set.
I want one.. just not sure if I could afford it.. but SSSA is beautiful!
Mak,
you smoking the good stuff....
1 it's over 100 bucks....ya just lost 95 %
2 900-1100...that is the $ of a gs to most...here
i hope you sell one
so you don't completly waste all your time
So you've never bought anything over $100 for your bike?
It's something I do...at no time would it be a "waste of time"...so I'm not really out anything. Anyone who wants one now has the option.
Im interested but i have some questions.
Are you making these yourself.
If so, how .... Safe are they.
that would be my only concern
that and the difficulty to put it on.
Also other than looking totally sweet, what would be the benefit to having a sssa
They'll be safe but with any significant suspension modification I would suggest frequent inspections.
Installation would be a synch, though.
there's not going to be a lot of benefits...check out my previous post for a few ideas.
God F*&king damnit, I want one but Im going to have to save up the money. I'd honestly sell my left testicle for one of those
I think I would give the GS some serious street cred.... Did i say "street cred"???
I might have someone that is interested...he rides a 97 TL100S...apparently his swingarm is bent from all the torque those mugs push. He's never crashed it or laid it down. one side of his swingarm is an inch lower than the other side...so he might be interested. I'll pitch it to him for him and then collect my incentive for the sale :icon_twisted:
Hit up the link in my sig for pricing and details. I'd really like to have another TL1000S customer lined up.
Quote from: makenzie71 on June 07, 2006, 06:44:34 PM
Adjustable wheel base and the TL lost 11lbs (7lbs from the rotating assembly). Not sure how much the rotating assembly and swingarm weigh on the GS, though. Resale value goes up a bit. Other than that it's primarilly looks...I'm sure things like the larger rotor, superior (and gold) rear caliper, larger availabillity of sticky tires, the nifty exclusivity, vast selection of alternate wheels (including lots of carbon fiber and magnesium bits) and such will come to me later.
$890 isn't really that steep...especially for this variety of modification. In the world of sssa's I'm as cheap as it gets...unless you're a machinest and have good sources.
The price sounds fair if it is a bolt-on-and-ride conversion but just a few questions???
You state an advantage to be an adjustable wheel base? How do you adjust the wheel base and I hope your answer does not refer to the eccentric hub adjuster that I guess that you are using on your swingarm. I guess that you are using an eccentric adjuster to deal with chain adjustment as is the case with every single-sided arm that I have seen so is that what you call adjustable wheel base? Yes, the eccentric adjuster has the ability to play with ride height which is a plus over standard type rear adjustments but I do not see how you have adjustable wheel base? In order to change wheel base you will also have to change chain length.
As you stated you are currently able to find wheels that will allow the use of 180mm and 190mm rear tires and the stock GS500 rear tire is 130mm and with anything wider than 160mm the chain alignment becomes an issue. Chain alignment is a major issue and one that could only be overcome with the use of an off set front sprocket which I do not even know if one is out there to be had that would fit the GS500 out put shaft and if so how much would one set you back $$$$ ?
Why does anyone need a larger rear brake rotor or better rear caliper?? The GS500 has more rear braking power than it will ever need as does any current production bike on the market today. Yes, it might look better but that is all.
Now I think it would look look great on most any bike if you could overcome some of the alignment issue but that could be done with the use of a Honda NT650 which was designed to use a 150 or 160 tire.
QuoteYou state an advantage to be an adjustable wheel base? How do you adjust the wheel base and I hope your answer does not refer to the eccentric hub adjuster that I guess that you are using on your swingarm. I guess that you are using an eccentric adjuster to deal with chain adjustment as is the case with every single-sided arm that I have seen so is that what you call adjustable wheel base? Yes, the eccentric adjuster has the ability to play with ride height which is a plus over standard type rear adjustments but I do not see how you have adjustable wheel base? In order to change wheel base you will also have to change chain length.
The eccentric and clamp I use with the TL allow nearly 2.25" of adjustment either way. I'm not sure how much of the same stuff I can apply to the GS setup as I'll have to fab the arm it's self in this case. If adjustment isn't going to be feasable, then the arm will just be made to a specific length. If smoeone wants a slightly longer arm, they can have it...and vice versa for anyone who wants to quicken steering.
QuoteAs you stated you are currently able to find wheels that will allow the use of 180mm and 190mm rear tires and the stock GS500 rear tire is 130mm and with anything wider than 160mm the chain alignment becomes an issue. Chain alignment is a major issue and one that could only be overcome with the use of an off set front sprocket which I do not even know if one is out there to be had that would fit the GS500 out put shaft and if so how much would one set you back $$$$ ?
Chian adjustment is a problem with stock wheels because they don't allow as much movement in the chain (sprocket and wheel are designed for that tire...running wider obviously rubs). The eccentric and axle assemblies I use make it impossible for tire/chain interference to be an issue with up to a 210mm tire. The chain will likely be up to 15mm further out if you want to go with the monstrous 190, but I've run 25mm strung on my bike before getting the bolt on TL1000 kits ready and I saw zero ill effects in over 1000 miles...other than a slight change in my normal sprocket wear pattern. Chain aligment won't be an issue.
QuoteWhy does anyone need a larger rear brake rotor or better rear caliper??
Who needs it? No one. Who gets it? Anyone who buys the kit. Beefier brakes may not always be needed, but benefit is always there...and it's not like I'm going to machine the discs down and fab up new hangers when OEM parts will work.
QuoteNow I think it would look look great on most any bike if you could overcome some of the alignment issue but that could be done with the use of a Honda NT650 which was designed to use a 150 or 160 tire.
The problem with the NT650 swingarm is that~
A...it's aluminum. Zero play for modification and modification is a must to fit it in the GS.
B...There's only 1100 of them in the United States (give ro take a few).
C...Of those 1100, every spare one I can find will go toward my market kits for the TL's.
The custom swingarm is a superior route because:
A...the stock swingarm is made of steel and can be modified easily, making the stock pivot very useable.
B...there's about 8 trillion stock swingarms in the United States.
C...it's about $371 cheaper than going with the NT swingarm (trust me on the number...I'd give an inch off my manhood to be able to say to hell with the NT swinger for the TL kits).
It's a shame that getting one across the pond would be too dear, I reckon that a SSSA would be the mutts nuts on a GS. :thumb:
Looks like I'm going to have to stick with putting a SV650 shock in the back.
Good luck with 'em Mak.
I'm still unclear as to why everyone thinks international shipping is so difficult...
I could send a kit to Europe or Australia for less than $100 in freight costs...if you're willing to wait 4~6 weeks, it'll ship for $20. 4~6 days would be like $60~70 and 3~4 days would be probably in the $100 area.
Looks pretty nice but too rich for my blood. For $1000+ I bet your only real market is 500cc class racers but most of them will be on the EX500 anyway. Good luck though!
-M
lol...available to those guys, too.
Quote from: makenzie71 on June 07, 2006, 10:54:36 PM
I'm still unclear as to why everyone thinks international shipping is so difficult...
I could send a kit to Europe or Australia for less than $100 in freight costs...if you're willing to wait 4~6 weeks, it'll ship for $20. 4~6 days would be like $60~70 and 3~4 days would be probably in the $100 area.
Those prices are resonable. Just going by what some of the charges are for national freight & took a guesstimate for international freight. :nono:
Have you got one made up yet?
Not for the GS...only the EX thus far, and it's still missing an eccentric (had to scrap the project for my last TL kit). I'll try to whip some pics of it up after while.
Sounds good, I wouldn't mind seeing some pics of one.
I'll have to see if the devil will take a third mortage on my soul :icon_twisted:
Quote from: makenzie71 on June 07, 2006, 10:54:36 PM
I'm still unclear as to why everyone thinks international shipping is so difficult...
I could send a kit to Europe or Australia for less than $100 in freight costs...if you're willing to wait 4~6 weeks, it'll ship for $20. 4~6 days would be like $60~70 and 3~4 days would be probably in the $100 area.
Shipping wouldn't be a problem; homologation would. I see no way how you might get that past inspection in Germany or Switzerland. Dunno about the UK.
I wouldn't think it'd be an issue in either place...there's SSSA kits available for sale all over europe (bigger thing there).
ill be interested in one if u can post some pics on a gs first. i want to see how exactly its looks before i buy somthing.
Quote from: makenzie71 on June 08, 2006, 01:54:32 AM
I wouldn't think it'd be an issue in either place...there's SSSA kits available for sale all over europe (bigger thing there).
Sure is possible. But you need to prove suitability of the technical solution with the respective bodies (e.g. TÜV in Germany). That's normally done by the manufacturers, who then issue a document certifying this in cooperation with the homologation folks. If you want to get an individual homologation you will have to prove that both strength and stiffness are sufficient. If there's welding on the part there's the question if the welder has the appropriate licenses, etc. etc. yadda yadda. It's generally a pain in the butt.
Using existing swingarms is less of an issue, as their usability is assumed to be proven by their primary application.
Quote from: makenzie71 on June 07, 2006, 10:54:36 PM
I'm still unclear as to why everyone thinks international shipping is so difficult...
I could send a kit to Europe or Australia for less than $100 in freight costs...if you're willing to wait 4~6 weeks, it'll ship for $20. 4~6 days would be like $60~70 and 3~4 days would be probably in the $100 area.
crack baby!!!!!!!!!!!
I want your shipping company
I sent a foam/plastic KTM DUKE II seat and kickstand to OZ....$76 and 120 days USPS
UPS and fed ex wanted about 400-500 to ship a set uf USD/tripples forks to UA
if you hook me up on them under 100 buck shipping rates....i won't call ya crack baby anymore.... :laugh:
Mak you have some serious talent. I'm interested but would like to see how one looks on a GS first, yes I know the same on the TL just imagaine it's a GS right?
Looks like an awesome idea. Im the type of person who likes to let someone else try it for a while and hear some feedback tho.
Quote from: blue05twin on June 08, 2006, 06:28:25 AM
Mak you have some serious talent. I'm interested but would like to see how one looks on a GS first, yes I know the same on the TL just imagaine it's a GS right?
Ditto. Interested also but would like a mockup. Want to see how it looks and maybe your opinion on the ride once it's on.
It's hard to buy an item that is based on another albeit they are quite similar.
Well Mak, it looks like they need a test dummy. Maybe if I get my job soon I can afford one... we'll see. It'd be awesome though.
Brian...first biter would likely get the kit at cost.
Quote from: makenzie71 on June 08, 2006, 10:14:11 AM
Brian...first biter would likely get the kit at cost.
Yeah, but I'm still poor and live 10 hours away from you. What do you think cost would be? $300 or so?
Distance wouldn't be an issue...supply a stock swingarm and you're gold. Cost of parts would be in the $300~400 range.
i guess this never went anywhere, eh?
If you'll pay for it, I have one that does work ...
Try 500+ and you have to fab up a little on your bike too. But it will work and look good.
The bigger question is - How would it handle ??? - Prolly slower round corners. And may be harder to change direction - higher un sprung weight and higher rotating mass.
How would it feel - Prolly more bottom heavy. Heavier and low to the ground.
How would it affect acceleration and other - Prolly act like you're dragging a fat chick ... its ~20-30 lb heavier at the end of it.
I am compensating by stuffing a gr650 motor and have hacked off the tail section ... so I am good ... :mad:
In effect - can be done and made to work. Mods needed on frame - like drilling out the pivot 1mm, and making a taller shock mount - or find a 9 inch long GSXR caliber shock. Or I am also working on a linkage - which may have to have other mods to frame.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on June 23, 2009, 11:00:38 AM
The bigger question is - How would it handle ??? - Prolly slower round corners. And may be harder to change direction - higher un sprung weight and higher rotating mass.
don't care. looks badass.
QuoteHow would it feel - Prolly more bottom heavy. Heavier and low to the ground.
don't care. it looks badass.
QuoteHow would it affect acceleration and other - Prolly act like you're dragging a fat chick ... its ~20-30 lb heavier at the end of it.
doesn't matter. it's badass-looking
you got pics of yours?
Not on a bike, and I wont put that up till its done, there is atleast one secret ingredient that I will have to source a few of, buy em and keep for personal use before I throw that info out into the gstwin domain and I cant get cheap crap any more, like with kat FE's ... as soon as the kat fe swap started as a mod in here, in a few weeks, all the $100 kat FE's that the sellers could not give away off fleabay disappeared. >:(
Cant have that happen to my magic part. I need 20 ... I need 100 of them and I will buy and swap out on GS'es for years ... muhahahahahahaha ... its what the suzuki factory will have me assasinated for ... muhahahahahahaha ....
Cool.
Buddha.
It never went anywhere because no one was willing to invest the money required to get it to work. Stuff like this isn't cheap and, when you look at the big picture, it's not worth it unless you can do it yourself. I just saw a 916 go for $2500. GT Hawks do that all the time. So dumping $500~750 in parts PLUS labor and fabrications to make it work on a $1100 bike just doesn't much make sense.
Supply and demand works in reverse if you're dealing in used parts.
The more Kat shocks you buy from the open market, the costlier they start to get. However if we're making stuff, someone collected up 100-200 orders for stuff like bars or case guards, I'd have em made in a few days and prolly make $ in the process too.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: werase643 on June 07, 2006, 08:04:29 PM
Mak,
you smoking the good stuff....
1 it's over 100 bucks....ya just lost 95 %
2 900-1100...that is the $ of a gs to most...here
i hope you sell one
so you don't completly waste all your time
I'm glad you didn't waste your time and $ on the cheap bastids
If you had something that I could simply bolt on and hook up a 240-250 rear tire on it and single sided then I would buy it.
Yea I suggest a 10 ft length of doggie chain and you just put it right on the sissy bar and loop it through the tar and lock up.
That way, it works as a rear tar, cos its behind and it works just about the same as them brudda's with hayabusa with 250 tars for handling.
Q: Hey, What do you call a (well its a racist joke I am cleaning up for the racial people here muhahahaha ) hayabusa rider with a stock hayabusa.
A: Poor.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: erbilabuc on August 22, 2009, 09:08:57 PM
If you had something that I could simply bolt on and hook up a 240-250 rear tire on it and single sided then I would buy it.
If you've got about $6500 I can pull it off....$4500 if you supply your own wheel.
Quote from: makenzie71 on August 31, 2009, 08:10:38 PM
Quote from: erbilabuc on August 22, 2009, 09:08:57 PM
If you had something that I could simply bolt on and hook up a 240-250 rear tire on it and single sided then I would buy it.
If you've got about $6500 I can pull it off....$4500 if you supply your own wheel.
wow that expensive huh.
When you're looking at adapting a similar size tire/wheel as stock, it's not as extreme, but when you're looking at nearly doubling the sire width you're looking at a lot more modifications than just putting on a new swingarm. There's a lot time and work invoved in just doing a 4" wheel...when you start looking at custom sprockets and crazy carriers capable of handling the required offset...makes the simpler option seem like just putting in a new air filter.
Wouldn't it be easier just to take a hacksaw and a file and cut off the right side of the stock swingarm? You'd lose your back brake, but big deal. That would just make it easier to mount rearsets off other bikes because all you'd have to worry about is the shifting setup.
No. The tubing on the stock swingarm isn't strong enough to handle all the force on just one spar. The bearings in the wheel also are not capable of supporting the wheel. It requires a great deal of modification to make something that really does sound simple work properly.
If one of these were to be made, and I could actually see it on a GS, I would definitely be interested. I don't think I could drop that kind of cash on something that I've never seen before, though. :icon_neutral:
I offer donation of my bike to this cause, it would have to be done in a week, and you wouldn't be allowed to charge me for this. lol
I suppose you could fab up one using the same concept as the 300 big tire kits for bigger bikes. They make one with a double sprocket that pushes the chain out a few inches. Im sure if you reall y wanted this it can be done. Fabricated or bought and customized to fit.
This ones from www.fat300customcycles.com
(http://www.fat300customcycles.com/images/tubular_swingarm.jpg)
Quote from: makenzie71 on September 02, 2009, 09:43:29 AM
No. The tubing on the stock swingarm isn't strong enough to handle all the force on just one spar.
that was just a joke, I know the sarcasm didn't translate well though
Chanse...that's the only way to put a wide tire on the GS because of frame clearance stuff.
If it looked like this:
(http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1242148556.jpg)
(http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1242230883.jpg)
(http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1242246075.jpg)
Then yes.
That'd be the best way to go about it, but not with the trump swinger. The Duc swinger is a better peice...magnesium, even, and has a much better carrier.