The rear axle nut is COMPLETELY seized. I hosed it down with anti-seize (several times) each time waiting a little bit longer before giving it another shot... I tried using my leg with my foot on the wrench, and the bolt didn't BUDGE. I tried hitting the freaking wrench with a hammer to loosen it. Nothing. It doesn't even look rusted!! I don't know what the &#*&^$(* deal is. I'm about > - < this close to dremeling the stupid thing off and buying a new axle...
Also, while looking for chain adjustment tips, I noticed something... Kerry has the cotter pin on the side opposite the brake disc, and has 10mm adjustment nuts... I have the cotter pin on the brake disc side and 12mm adjustment nuts. That mean anything? Being my axle is completely seized, I don't think I can adjust squat. The chain looks loose to me, but I have no idea what I'm doing down there, and my chain is in horrible shape, anyway (hence the attempt to replace it and sprockets).
So, any suggestions before I start breaking some parts off my bike?? It'd be about 35 bucks and a 2 week wait to go the "dremel the %$^er" route.
Did you try turning it the other way? :icon_razz:
How long are you waiting for the penetration oil to work? Douse it, and let it sit and work in for a while. Like an hour or two. Then spray it again. Wait another hour or so. Then try it again?
heat the nut up. its a nyloc type so mabee the plastic has some how bound up. keep trying. put a ring spanner on it and whack it as aposed to constant pressure, that may release it.
good luck
the directions on the can said 2 min. So I tried 2 min, then 10, then a half hour, then said %#$ it. Guess I'll go try again now.
whats a ring spanner? Looks like a long funky shaped wrench to me... Anyone know what size the axle nut is? It was bigger than my 19mm wrench (the biggest I've got...)
no good... either way (though I've been trying counter clockwise primarily)
You could use a hammer wrench thing. Im not sure what its called someone here will name its American name when i describe it. Its like a big fat screwdriver wich you attach a wratchet size on the end of (the little cylinder bits you clip on to your wratchet to fit the bolt) it and then set which way you want the bolt to turn. You then put it on the bolt and hammer it on the end (it has a big metal end) when you hammer it it transfers the force into a slight movement in the chosen direction. This has got all the bolts that have been tight on a vehicle we have serviced so far. I wish i knew what it was called.
Impact driver. I would, but they arent cheap... And I've broken too many chincy sockets that way. I'd have to take off my exhaust to use one anyway, which is another PITA I don't care for right now...
But I guess I'll head to Ace and see how much they run these days... Though I still dont know the size of that nut...
Impact wrenches are nice. I have mine now, and boy is it handy. :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: Queso on June 10, 2006, 02:46:33 PM
The rear axle nut is COMPLETELY seized.
Does this mean that the axle nut won't turn at all, or that it will turn but takes the axle with it? If the latter, you need to get someone on the other end with a big wrench, or have the left-side passenger peg "hold" the wrench for you.
If
nothing turns ... hmmm ... how long is your wrench? :icon_rolleyes: The axle nut is 22mm, and I always use a (long-handled) torque wrench to loosen/tighten it. (You don't HAVE to of course, but....)
Quote from: Queso on June 10, 2006, 02:46:33 PMKerry has the cotter pin on the side opposite the brake disc, and has 10mm adjustment nuts... I have the cotter pin on the brake disc side and 12mm adjustment nuts.
Oops - that's a typo on my part. My adjuster nuts are 12mm too. Sorry about that. :oops:
Interesting that the axle got put (back) on backwards. Any idea who could have done that? A mechanic with an air wrench maybe?
Quote from: hmmmnz on June 10, 2006, 02:53:04 PM
heat the nut up. its a nyloc type so mabee the plastic has some how bound up.
That's the UK talking. ;) The Haynes manual lists the following torque values for the rear axle nut:
| Nut with split-pin (US models)........ | 50 to 80 Nm |
| Self-locking nut (UK models).......... | 60 to 96 Nm |
[/list]
do you know anyone with an air compressor? An impact wrench would zip that sucker right off. If not, look for a piece of pipe you can slip over the end of the wrench, the longer the better. I had to use a cheater pipe to break the torque on the cylinder head bolts. Just slip it over and handle and jump up and down on the pipe a few times.
-M
Like he said, big-ass breaker bar should get 'er loose. If not, a bit of heat on the nut. And when you get it apart, use anti-seize when you put it back together.
I use anti-seize on everthing I take apart now...
I bought an impact driver and a 22mm socket - less than $25, not too bad... I wailed on the thing a bit tonight, with absolutely no luck. Tomorrow I'll hammer away without concern for sleeping neighbors, however.
Kerry - NOTHING is budging at all. I haven't been able to get the axle to move a fraction of a fraction of a mm. The only wrench I have that can get around the bolt is an adjustable... I'd hate to spend another 20 bucks on a 22mm combo wrench and a pipe. If I can't get it with the impact driver tomorrow, I'll check into just busting the sucker off. Would a regular cig lighter be the right kind of heat? But then again, I've hosed the thing in penetrating oil.. I don't want to set my bike on fire...
I don't know anyone personally with air tools. The stealership has them, but I think I screwed up my chain tension, and I don't want to ride it there.
This is turning out to be quite frustrating... How do these things get stuck on so %$#^%$ tight in the first place? The rear tire was in decent shape when I got the bike, so it can't be stock. Whoever swapped the tire last time must've put it in wrong. The rear tire also had (emphasis on the past tense) some massive chicken strips... I don't think the PO ever saw any twisties on it.
Quote from: Queso on June 10, 2006, 10:05:38 PM
I bought an impact driver and a 22mm socket - less than $25, not too bad...
The only wrench I have that can get around the bolt is an adjustable...
Would a regular cig lighter be the right kind of heat?
An
impact driver? That's the wrong tool for the job. And, I could see where a
monkey wrench would have a better chance of rounding off the corners than removing the stuck nut.
Fire....yes, a butane lighter might be helpful if the nut was secured with red loctite. It might take some time but it should provide enough heat to
melt the bond. Bear in mind that there's probably a
standard wrench size that will also fit the nut. Again, I don't know if the nut is on exceptionally tight given the tools you've been using to try to remove it. :dunno_white:
Gisser has a good point. A person who would reassemble things backwards just might be the type who would apply red Loctite on a nut that's about to be secured by a cotter pin. :mad:
I have no experience with red Loctite, so I don't know how much heat it would require to raise the temperature of the nut and bolt enough to loosen such a bond. But yeah - try a goodly amount of heat before giving up and smashing things. ;) On top of that, consider shelling out the $15 or $20 for a torque wrench (http://www.bbburma.net/Temp/100_1535_CraftsmanTorqueWrenches.jpg). It will be useful for lots of stuff down the road (including when you remount the rear wheel at the end of this ordeal), and it will provide extra leverage that could make all the difference.
Ok i took some loctatie or nut lock as we call it out last nite and put abit on some metal with a bolt thru it. Heating it underneath with the lighter took forever (i used my turbo gas lighter (like a mini blow torch in a lighter outfit) it took a good few mins till the bolt was too got to touch, i gave it a good twist with the right sized socket and it came loose, but on my first attempt it just went hard again because i wasn't quick enough. So if theres enough room to get the bolt red hot using a lighter, do that, then have a go with a socket or. Adjustable wrench on the bolt with a steel bar through the hold in the handle end to get extra leverage.
I used heat from a propane torch to loosen a red loctited axle nut on my Dakota. A very long breaker bar(almost 8'!!) wouldn't budge the nut. I just heated it with the torch for a few seconds and used a 3/4" socket wrench to undo it.
I have a torque wrench, but that won't do a thing to get it off...
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Flame, impact driver, missing and hitting my hand, adjustable wrench, torque wrench, NOTHING..... ARRRRGHHH... Hasnt BUDGED!!!! WAS IT WELDED ON OR SOMETHING!?? ARGH....
It should have moved by now after trying the traditional methods. The fact it hasnt makes me suspect that the thread has stripped or picked up, if so no amount of heat or force is going to budge it. If memory serves the axlebolt has a metric-fine thread profile and this form can easily be damaged by overtightening. I think you are going to have to bite the bullet and grind the nut off and replace both the nut and axlebolt. Alternatively you could find someone who owns one of these and make friends with him??
http://www.diytools.co.uk/diy/Main/Product.asp?iProductID=18050
You can get nutsplitters at AutoZone. Alternatively, if you have the tools you can try the following. It worked on some axle bolts on an old VW that I had. I did it because it was what I had. However, think long and hard before you do this, because it could damage your bike:
Get your breaker bar and appropriate socket.
Get your cheater bar.
Get your 1000 lb. racheting lever hoist ("comealong").
Get your shop hammer.
Get a length of very strong rope (optional).
Assemble breaker bar etc. and put it on the bolt.
Attach one end of the hoist to the end of the cheater bar.
Attach the other end of the hoist to the strong rope tied to an appropriate point on the frame.
Crank it until it's nice and tight.
If it doesn't come loose, whack it with the hammer.
I am not responsible for frame, personal, or any other damage.
If that doesn't free it, you'll have to use the nut splitter.
For the cost to do all these and with the risk to damaging the bike it would be far cheaper to grind the bolt off and put a new axel bolt on there.
That's why I said, "Get your...." If you don't have it, then it's not going to save money. It definitely worked though. However, I had a nice, sturdy frame to attach the comealong to, the trailer on which the dune buggy was sitting.
You need a propane torch. Or a Bernzomatic type deal with the gas bottle. I've been messing with bikes for 35 years, and have never had a problem like this taking off an axle nut. It must be rusted up, or way, way, way overtightened. Like I said before, a long breaker bar, over the end of a box end wrench. You shouldn't have to beat on it with a hammer or anything like that. And when you reassemble it, if you don't loctite it, anti-seize it.
:mad:
I had the stealership do a chain adjustment for me so I could learn from them, and I know they used an air wrench on the axle nut... They must've WAY over torqued it... So I guess I'll just ride it to the stealership tomorrow and risk whatever could happen from what I've tried so far. I don't think I need to worry about the lack of cotter pin on the axle right now, anyway... I'm not wasting any more money on new tools... At least I've got an impact driver and a big socket now, I guess...
Good choice. If they put it on let them take it off. :icon_lol:
Now we are getting somewhere. Its possible the Dealer has tightened the nut up with the air wrench set way to high and as a result the thread was strained when the nut reached its limit of travel along the bolt, leading to it stripping or picking-up. Thats the problem with air-tools, you loose the `feel`, They are good for undoing tight fastenings but but not tightening them, there are plenty of Mechanics and Engineers who dont use them for this same reason.
Loctite is a reactive adhesive; once hardened you can't melt it. It will however, break down at about 120 to 140°C (irreversible). That is awfully hot (well beyond boiling point); I imagine getting the rear axle in its built in state to that temperature would require nothing short of a blow torch. (The gas / ambient air type should be enough.)
Queso, if you tried to get that nut loose with a monkey wrench I can imagine you not getting it loose. That wrench has, what? a 10" handle. Not much torque to be got with that.
Well, the dealer did torque it on with an air wrench, and I didn't see them put any chemicals on it (loctite or otherwise). I think it's safe to assume the mechanic put it on too tight. I'm going to see if I can make it there tonight to get them to loosen it. If the threads are damaged, I expect them to get me a new axle and castle nut. :icon_twisted:
On a side note - I got my progressive springs today!! Those I'm just going to have the dealer install, cuz I don't feel like messing with all that compressed stuff, and I have no one to help me install them.
Man, the springs are pretty damned easy to install, and you don't have to take the bottom bolt (the one that requires an impact wrench) out unless you need to replace the fork seals.
Quote from: Egaeus on June 12, 2006, 08:29:57 AM
Man, the springs are pretty damned easy ... unless you need to replace the fork seals.
Which I do...
Well then, it's a good excuse to get a light-duty compressor and impact wrench. Seriously, shop around. You might just find that it's about the same price or cheaper than paying a mechanic to do it.
If you can get it to a local shop (gas station, lawn mower repair, etc) have them hit it with an air wrench, then tighten it enough to get back home. I tried for years to loosen a Lawn Boy mower blade nut, then took it to a repair shop. They not only loosened it with the air wrench, they sharpened the goldarn blade for $5.00.
Quote from: Egaeus on June 12, 2006, 10:43:26 AM
Well then, it's a good excuse to get a light-duty compressor and impact wrench. Seriously, shop around. You might just find that it's about the same price or cheaper than paying a mechanic to do it.
I think sears sells a small air compressor and all your basic air tools (air ratchet, impact wrench, and an air hammer IIRC) for pretty cheap, like $200 or so... otherwise you could always rent one from walmart :o
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I'm a lil upset with the stealership... They closed at least 45 minutes early today, so after the 40 minute drive to get there (having left work early to make sure I get there before they claim to close) THEY WERE CLOSED. NO ONE there.... So, the nut THEY overtightened will have to remain stuck until next time... ARGHHGHGRHGJRHGKFHSGKHBGFEI&@T*&@$*&@%(&FT(*R@(YR(....
I can't afford a set of air tools right now... Heck, I can barely afford to rent them. Not worth it for one freakin nut the stealership is responsible for anyway. At least I got my first dose of lane splitting. Some idiotic little fender bender held up beach blvd traffic for miles, giving me plenty of oppurtunity to get some experience. And being incredibly pissed at the time gave me the nerve to do it ;) It would've been around an hour or more by cage, but I made it back home in less than half that :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: Queso on June 12, 2006, 06:35:50 PM
I can't afford a set of air tools right now... Heck, I can barely afford to rent them. Not worth it for one freakin nut the stealership is responsible for anyway.
We were talking about the forks. Seriously, you can get a small compressor and impact wrench for like $140, and that's about what you'll get charged to replace the fork seals. Oh and a proper 8mm impact hex bit will be $10.
Wait - a 40 minute drive away, and you didn't call to make sure they would be open? (Or let them know you were on your way?) :nono:
At least you got some lane-splitting practice out of it!
Quote from: Kerry on June 12, 2006, 06:53:40 PM
Wait - a 40 minute drive away, and you didn't call to make sure they would be open? (Or let them know you were on your way?) :nono:
At least you got some lane-splitting practice out of it!
Nope, didn't call... Assumed they stuck to their posted hours. And it's only 40 minutes because of traffic and stoplights... It's like 10-15 miles...