This kid was 20 years old, and lived in south williamsport, PA. By far the craziest accident story i've heard yet, and it right in my town.
http://www.sungazette.com/news/articles.asp?articleID=5629
That really sucks
Sad, sad story. Makes me wonder if the van used its turn signal or not. Seen lots of wrecks where a vehicle is turning left and MC hits it.
People come on here slow the F&*@ down!!!! :icon_rolleyes: :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: Ripper on June 12, 2006, 10:26:50 PM
Sad, sad story. Makes me wonder if the van used its turn signal or not. Seen lots of wrecks where a vehicle is turning left and MC hits it.
In the story, it also said the motorcyclist was traveling at a very high rate of speed. When the van began to turn, the bike was probably half a mile away, a perfectly safe distance for someone to turn.
It's because of Violence in Video Games !! ;)
Seriously though, that guy got what he was gonna get. Although, it is ridiculously sad he took out an entire family. I would hope more modern vehicles would stand up to that better. I mean, if it was a car doing 100 then what? It ends up killing 2 familys?
I was amazed the bike toppled the van expecially with a whole family inside. Nasty smash, i think it could have been avoided had they been going slower and or paying more attention. Im a firm believer motorcycles can travel at higher speeds than cars safley so long as the rider has a high ability. From half a mile away if he was paying attention he could have slowed in that time enough to change lanes out of the path of the van. Which makes me think he either wasn't paying attention or really was weaving through traffic and misjudged the vans intentions.
ps. That news report was awful, as in gramatically and the way it was written. police said, police said, said the police, police said. I think i prefer english news :icon_mrgreen:
Ok whoevery wrote that story need to head back to gramer school. Prayers out to both the family that died and the motorcyclist. I don't think it's right to condem ( spelling? ) the rider
Before making a left hand turn across a highway you need to be able to jude the distance the other vechile is and the speed it is going, and how fast can your vechile turn. Distance alone doesnt mean squat. If your racing at a high rate of speed wouldnt you be paying even more attention than normal?
Like most accidents this could have been avoided by either the Rider or the driver.
Our local news paper is known for its bad writting, it is def poorly written.
Later reports mentioned that he was on a kawasaki ninja doing 140+. That was what the other rider he was racing told police. It hit the van like a missle and blew up.
You cant blame the van for not using a turn signal, thats rediculous. The driver could have looked left, and no one was there, then when he pulled out, two bikes goin 140+ were coming at him.
Sad story, bad road to race on. On that highway, there are no on ramps, just roads that turn on from the left and right.
The saddest part is bikers from this forum siding with the dumbass biker before bargovic states he was doing 140+
The witnesses in the article said he was racing and speeding. The cops said there were no skid marks.
this @$$hole was being reckless/careless and killed 4 people. May he rot in hell.
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these are the bikers that will eventually strip us all of the "privilege" of riding our bikes. Wether by outlawing bikes or raising our insurance rates so high, most won't be able to afford to ride.
Quote from: blue05twin on June 13, 2006, 06:55:58 AMLike most accidents this could have been avoided by either the Rider or the driver.
I think you're being too easy on this kid. He was the one who decided to use the highway as his own personal racetrack. He was going very fast, supposedly well over 100 mph, the car driver couldn't have adequately judged the distance and closing speed. This was 100% his fault, hopefully God has mercy on his soul for killing those poor people.
jeff
I hate to play devils advocate when so many have absolutely condemned the biker, but I think it is a bit extreme to say that hell is the right place for a biker who made a bad decision. In the picture from the story there was a long sweeping stretch of road that was the perfect view for a driver trying to make a left there to see and judge oncoming speed. It wasn't like the motorcyclist was innocent by any stretch, but it also wasn't as though the van was looking down a 20 ft length to a blind corner or some flat stretch where judging speed would have been impossible. I think the fact that there were no skid marks doesn't make the cyclist more at fault but rather the opposite. The van (going back to the photo) was coming out of a lane blocked by vegetation and more than likely surprised the hell out of the cyclist. I will not excuse the excessive speed, but I also can't simply say "Oh that poor family caught unawares by that demon motorcycle."
I guess I would just like to see a little less hyperbole when there were mistakes on both sides. I don't think any of us can say 100% anyones fault without being a little unfair. Cars should look better, cycles should drive within safe speed limits, and if either of these cardinal rules is broken, death and/or hell shouldn't be the deserved punishment.
If this kid was really travelling at over 100+ mph, he was acting with what I believe lawyers call "reckless disregard" for the safety of those around him. Dismissing such actions as "a bad decision" understates what he was doing. That poor family was "caught unawares by that demon motorcycle." To assign any blame at all to them is absurd.
jeff
This is completely the riders fault. 140 mph+ is just f***ing stupid unless you are on a racetrack. The vans driver probably didnt even see the bike because it was going sooo fast. While some accidents cant be avoided this one could have, slow the f*** down. The best advice I ever got was ride like everyone is out to kill you. Once again Darwin wins out, it is too bad that asshat had to take a family with him.
I don't approve of road racing at any lvl .. thats what tracks are for. I'll re-read the article but I don't see where it said they were doing over 140 mpg just said the cagers said they were going really fast. Yeah really fast = ? MPH?. Cagers saying a bike was going really fast. . compared to what? I was just basing my oppions on that article.
Seems to be kind of hypocritical for any biker to say that speeding on the streets should not be tolerated. How many of us go to the local twisties and do the actual speed limit?. And just because someone makes a bad jugement call they should goto hell? Glad god is more forgiving than we humans are.
Was the biker right for what he did . . .no
Should the driver of the van be attentive. . .yes
My sympathies to the surviving members of both families.
Speeding 20 mpg over the speed limit is rekless driving. . is that the same as reckless disreguard? If so half the drivers in Atl need to have their license revoked average speed on highways around here is 90mpg
This wasnt a bad judgement call this was a no judgement call equaling 5 people dying. Stupid, pointless, and wasteful. It is hard for to feel sorry for anyone but the family in the van. Whatever the speed it was too fast and it is completely a mute idea to compare speeds on a straight stretch of roads to speeds in the twisties.
I gotta agree with the "demon motorcycle" angle. There's no excuse.
More to Nick's original point, it makes it harder to explain to loved ones that we ride. It makes us all look bad by association. I'll leave the reward/punishment stuff to God or The Devil, but it sure does make it harder for us, and I'll say "shame on him" for that at least.
Speeding is speeding. . . go around a blind corner while speeding. To wide hit a car kill driver and passanger but senes it's in the twisties it's ok?
Not saying what they were doing is right just saying that it's hypocritical for people to pass judemnent on something that they do also.
Demon motorcyclist....deserves to be in hell - Who are we? And who here is allowed to be throwing those kinds of stones (read: is completely innocent)?
This type of issue is never simply black and white and to treat it as such is to marginalize the real lives involved. Lets not be so bold as to assume any of us is in a position to "comdemn to hell" or even know the real circumstances that led up to this tragedy. We've all been cut off by some stupid cage not paying attention and we've all sped (some to see the limits of the little gs, others because we thought the road was safe; ie sunny clear relatively straight).
"The impact knocked the van on its side and sparked a huge explosion, witnesses said"
Just think about that. I'm not the smartest man alive, but if a 390 lb motorcycle hits a 5,500 lb van and knocks it onto it's side we are spliting hairs arguing over how fast the motorcycle was going. I think common sence tells us it was a "high" rate of speed. 140 mph ? It would have to be in the ball park.
Quote from: blue05twin on June 13, 2006, 11:41:29 AM
Speeding is speeding. . . go around a blind corner while speeding. To wide hit a car kill driver and passanger but senes it's in the twisties it's ok?
Not saying what they were doing is right just saying that it's hypocritical for people to pass judemnent on something that they do also.
No I dont do this so bite my ass, I am not being hypocritical.
My next question is how many people speed down the road at 100+mph??? If you do guess what, you could end up like the dude in the aforementioned article.
and deserve to be in hell because some human thinks his judgement is absolute - A little arrogant
At 140 MPH the bike was traveling 203 feet per second. At 60 MPH you would travel 87 feet per second. Other drivers anticipate a normal approach speed/time/distance when making their decisions. At a 140 MPH closing speed the driver of the van never had a chance to make the right decision. God rest all their souls.
I never said he needed to go to hell. I just said he was an asshat. I dont believe in hell. I do believe in dead, though.
Quote from: blue05twin on June 13, 2006, 11:19:33 AM
I'll re-read the article but I don't see where it said they were doing over 140 mpg just said the cagers said they were going really fast. Yeah really fast = ? MPH?. Cagers saying a bike was going really fast. . compared to what? I was just basing my oppions on that article.
It wasn't in the article. It's what the other biker said.
Quote from: bargovic on June 13, 2006, 07:01:35 AMLater reports mentioned that he was on a kawasaki ninja doing 140+. That was what the other rider he was racing told police. It hit the van like a missle and blew up.
Quote from: ajgs500 on June 13, 2006, 11:56:00 AM
I just said he was an asshat. I dont believe in hell. I do believe in dead, though.
Well said.
Stupidity Kills Stupidly.
thats all im gonna say
Quote from: Blueknyt on June 13, 2006, 12:31:19 PM
Stupidity Kills Stupidly.
thats all im gonna say
what?
It's not possible for any of us to know what actually happened, and therefore I don't think any one of us should be blaming anyone. Was the motorcycle going too fast? I think that's obvious, and the motorcyclist is a jackass for it. At those speeds even if he was paying attention, ANY slight distraction could have resulted in an accident. He was racing another biker, he could have looked over at the other biker for a split second and the next thing he knows he's inside the van. Who knows what the person driving the van was thinking? Did he see the biker and decide he could make the turn? or maybe he didn't see the biker at all; we don't even know if he even took the time to look down the road! Unless one of us were actually in that van or on that bike there's no way for any of us to know what happened. I guess what I'm saying is that this is a sad, sad thing to have happened. I'm going to leave it at that, there's no way I will ever know enough to assign blame so I wont even try. I pray for both of their families.
Dorianfes
I don't believe in Hell either, but when I get there I'm gonna kick this assh*le in the nuts as hard as I can a thousand times. Maybe even shove a pineapple up his arse a time or two. HE KILLED FOUR PEOPLE!!!
Blatant disregard for the safety of others. No way around it. Even with the minimal info provided and the fact that we weren't there to witness the accident.
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Incidents like this are what most of the voting non-motorcyclists see and use to decide our fate.
Motorcyclists as a whole must find a way to differenciate ourselves from the inexperienced dumbasses on 500lb bikes with 170hp, who end up giving us a bad name.
~~edit - as a side note, I'd like to point out the title of this thread ....kinda proves my point. Our parents read an article like this and think we are gonna die riding motorcycles.
NON-motorcyclists will not fully understand the diffence between this guys recklessness and normal daily driving practices
Quote from: 3imo on June 13, 2006, 02:27:32 PM
Incidents like this are what most of the voting non-motorcyclists see and use to decide our fate.
Motorcyclists as a whole must find a way to differenciate ourselves from the inexperienced dumbasses on 500lb bikes with 170hp, who end up giving us a bad name.
~~edit - as a side note, I'd like to point out the title of this thread ....kinda proves my point. Our parents read an article like this and think we are gonna die riding motorcycles.
NON-motorcyclists will not fully understand the diffence between this guys recklessness and normal daily driving practices
There's my concern every time I hear of stories from Ben R. to this one. How many of you have heard comments that supersport bikes shouldn't even be street legal? This crap just gives them ammunition to take away our bikes.
I'm gonna have to come down against the biker. If he was going a reasonable speed, in all likelyhood this would not have happened. Instead, 5 people are dead.
Quote from: Kasumi on June 13, 2006, 04:42:54 AM
Im a firm believer motorcycles can travel at higher speeds than cars safley so long as the rider has a high ability.
Why do you say that? That doesn't make any sense. I do believe that people driving a regular car or truck, suv, or just a POS should stay at the limit. But what about a sports car, they are made to be able to handle much better than your standard car, truck, suv....
Just to be fair, the article has changed several times since i posted it. Typical sun gazette. I think they even changed the town the kid was from. The 140+ was what i think a news station reported the other rider saying. Not confirmed, but def 100+ mph confirmed. The other rider also told them they were weaving in and out of traffic, then the missle biker over took him on that straight away and hit the van.
That kid was a jackass for sure. And it sucks 110% for that family of 4 in the van. But dont say it was the drivers fault, it is def an easy way to miss judge the closing time of a bike going that fast. And in the defense of the reckless biker.... Its a 20 year old on a super sport. I think any of us in that catagory have made the same mistake of wanting to give the bike all its got. Just the majority are lucky enough to not hit a van, or were smart and fought the urge.
Now the jackass in the old rusty nissan that ran me off the road onto the shoulder today... he looked me right in the face, stopped his car, then at the last second decided to pull out as fast as he could. luckly i was only going 50mph and ended up on the shoulder swearing instead of in his back seat, or the ditch.
Quote from: porsche4786 on June 13, 2006, 05:26:25 PM
Quote from: Kasumi on June 13, 2006, 04:42:54 AM
Im a firm believer motorcycles can travel at higher speeds than cars safley so long as the rider has a high ability.
Why do you say that? That doesn't make any sense. I do believe that people driving a regular car or truck, suv, or just a POS should stay at the limit. But what about a sports car, they are made to be able to handle much better than your standard car, truck, suv....
I dunno i just think from riding on track and on the road that its alot easier to maintain a higher speed on a bike than on a road. Im obviously not condoning speeding on busy roads but round here there isnt a road you will find with more than 3 cars on it. And i think you can see much further on bikes you pay alot more attention on bikes (genrally if your not a loony) because when your in your car you feel safe and if a car pulls out of junction while your speeding, theres no way your going to avoid it (too big, too heavy and you dont see it) I dunno what roads are like in america but its easier to go faster IF you want to over here.
Quote from: Kasumi on June 14, 2006, 02:22:28 AM
Quote from: porsche4786 on June 13, 2006, 05:26:25 PM
Quote from: Kasumi on June 13, 2006, 04:42:54 AM
Im a firm believer motorcycles can travel at higher speeds than cars safley so long as the rider has a high ability.
Why do you say that? That doesn't make any sense. I do believe that people driving a regular car or truck, suv, or just a POS should stay at the limit. But what about a sports car, they are made to be able to handle much better than your standard car, truck, suv....
I dunno i just think from riding on track and on the road that its alot easier to maintain a higher speed on a bike than on a road. Im obviously not condoning speeding on busy roads but round here there isnt a road you will find with more than 3 cars on it. And i think you can see much further on bikes you pay alot more attention on bikes (genrally if your not a loony) because when your in your car you feel safe and if a car pulls out of junction while your speeding, theres no way your going to avoid it (too big, too heavy and you dont see it) I dunno what roads are like in america but its easier to go faster IF you want to over here.
Actually...cars do handle better than motorcycles.... If you take a 911 and an R1, the 911 will win. The 911 can out brake and out handle the R1. I don't know about you, but I can only see soo far no matter what. I can be in my car and do 100 and it doesn't even feel like it, but I don't do that anymore because here you get a $1,000 ticket for doing 100mph.
In a car you can't overtake things or avoid things in the road as easily as you can on a bike, on a track sure maybe a 911 can turn quicker than a bike but on the road they can't because by the time they see the obstruction they have to swerve which in a car at high speed will cause a a sprin and a wreck. Whereas a bike its a case of shifting your weight and adjusting your direction. As u said in a car u also can't tell your going as fast as you are, on a bike you can and thus are more alert.
But in a car, you could just run whatever over, or let it go under/snow plow it. I guess it depends on what it is, but if it's that big, you would see it ahead of time. If your on a highway and your doing this with low traffic you can see a long way ahead, so if there were debres you would be fine no matter what.