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Main Area => Odds n Ends => Topic started by: manofthefield on June 18, 2006, 09:10:48 AM

Title: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: manofthefield on June 18, 2006, 09:10:48 AM
Yesterday my girlfriend and I were out at a store and when we came back to her Focus and started it up, it was misfiring.  It did this the whole way home and it seemed like there was a big loss in power.  It had a half a tank of gas; I filled it up on the way home... didn't help.  A mile into our drive home the check engine light had come on.  I took it to a parts store to use there OBD II tool and it said that cyl 2 and 3 were missfiring. 

So far I have checked the plugs, which are about a year old, they look good, and I looked for any arcs from the plug wires in the dark and there was nothing.

After a google search I found a problem that pops up sometimes that has to do with the EGR (DPFE Sensor), but the suggested temporary fix does not seem to fix it.

What would cause the car to start missfiring so suddenly?  And in two cylinders?  I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas before we start sinking money into it because we have a very limited budget to work with
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: st8racin on June 18, 2006, 09:20:41 AM
A friend of mine is a car genius, has a lot of experience with fords too. I'll ask him when I see him online. That's about the most help I can offer.
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: manofthefield on June 18, 2006, 09:36:53 AM
Cool, thanks a lot

BTW, its a 2000 with 90,000 miles and the engine is a 2.0 SPI
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: manofthefield on June 18, 2006, 05:23:33 PM
After finding that I couldn't measure resistance in the #2 plug wire I replaced the wires (spark plugs are only a year old and appear to be in good condition, so I didn't replace them).  For the most part it fixed the problem, but I think I still feel it misfire every great once in a while.  At least it's driveable now.

I wonder if there's still something wrong with the distributor or something??
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: makenzie71 on June 18, 2006, 05:54:52 PM
Plug wires are a 60k service replacement.  she didn't have the 60k service done?  And there isn't a distributor...it's a coil pack ignition system much like a bike.

Has she had the fuel tank and fuel switch recall taken care of?
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: manofthefield on June 18, 2006, 06:11:45 PM
Not sure if she had the car at 60K miles or not, but they looked like original wires.  I'll have to check if the recalls were taken care of, but my guess is not while she's had the car.  I wasn't around when she got the it. 
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: makenzie71 on June 18, 2006, 06:19:28 PM
Find out about the 60k service...all recalls should have been taken care of at that time.  You can get the information from just about any dealership with the VIN number.
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: coll0412 on June 18, 2006, 08:37:14 PM
If it is still misfiring see what coil pack the two cylinders go to, if they are different coils then it could be a seperate issue, if it is the same coil then that could be some of the trouble also
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: makenzie71 on June 18, 2006, 08:52:00 PM
There's just one coil pack:

(http://i18.ebayimg.com/02/i/06/c2/34/e2_1.JPG)
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: JMyrick on June 19, 2006, 04:55:20 AM
2000 zx3 132000 mi everything still org except 1 headlight bulb and one tail light bulb  :cheers:

Joe
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: st8racin on June 19, 2006, 07:48:25 AM
Have you checked the timing on it at all to see it that might be off?

I wasn't around much to catch my friend online yesterday, hopefully today I will.
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: st8racin on June 19, 2006, 08:44:38 AM
Ok just talked to my friend and here's what he found out...heads up it's not good.

ISSUE:
Some vehicles equipped with the 2.0L SPI engine may exhibit a malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) illuminated and diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) P0300 through P0304 stored in memory. The vehicle may also have a rough idle or reduced power condition, and/or may stall at an idle. This may be caused by sticking exhaust valves due to excessive carbon build-up.

WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage

If WDS Power Balance indicates a misfiring cylinder with the previous test, one  or more exhaust valves may be intermittently sticking due to carbon build-up  between the valve stem and guide. Replace the cylinder head with the new level  cylinder head with revised valve guides. Once stock is exhausted of the loaded  cylinder heads, the cylinder head will come bare so revised exhaust valves will  need to be installed in place of the original valves. The revised valve guides  and exhaust valves help prevent carbon build-up. Consult the appropriate model  year Workshop Manual for removal and installation procedures for the Cylinder  Head Assembly.

i.e. big money and no warranty

TSB
04-9-1    DRIVEABILITY - ROUGH IDLE, LOW POWER AND/OR STALL AT IDLE WITH DIAGNOSTIC  TROUBLE CODES (DTCS) P0300-P0304 STORED IN MEMORY - VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 2.0L  SPI ENGINE ONLY  ELECTRICAL - MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LAMP (MIL) ILLUMINATED - DIAGNOSTIC  TROUBLE CODES (DTCS) P0300-P0304 STORED IN MEMORY - VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 2.0L  SPI ENGINE ONLY   

says replace head
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: manofthefield on June 19, 2006, 10:36:31 AM
Replace head? Uh no thanks...  Maybe it's time to tell her to start looking into financing options for that Evo she's always wanted
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: Alphamazing on June 19, 2006, 11:06:30 AM
Quote from: manofthefield on June 19, 2006, 10:36:31 AM
Replace head? Uh no thanks...  Maybe it's time to tell her to start looking into financing options for that Evo she's always wanted

Or to start buying Japanese cars!  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: manofthefield on June 19, 2006, 12:04:13 PM
I do, she would have prefered it, but I guess the Focus was to good a deal to pass up... or so she thought :laugh:
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: makenzie71 on June 19, 2006, 07:50:04 PM
I seriously doubt it's the head.  That's a very rare condition and it's not limited to the focus.

Also, just to point out, the only car I've managed to gain as much satisfaction as my Focus out of is my BMW.  The Focus is an astounding car...an anomoly.  It's not often you see a manufacturer get it right the first time, then start turning it into shaZam! (as opposed to introducing shaZam!, improving it slightly and returning it to shaZam! so gradually that no one notices until all they have is shaZam!).
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: yamahonkawazuki on June 19, 2006, 08:11:02 PM
Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on June 19, 2006, 11:06:30 AM
Quote from: manofthefield on June 19, 2006, 10:36:31 AM
Replace head? Uh no thanks...  Maybe it's time to tell her to start looking into financing options for that Evo she's always wanted

Or to start buying Japanese cars!  :laugh: :laugh:
heh they cost a damned fortune to repair, and on occasion they do need repair. but if you go asian, avoid korean somewhat, and/or check out subaru with the boxer layout you can get some ungodly amout of miles on them
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: makenzie71 on June 19, 2006, 08:18:01 PM
yeah...be sure to check out subies...becasue transmission work should be part of your regular maintanance.

Cost of repairs is irrellevent...I've yet to see any proof that foreign cars are more expensive to repair than domestics or vice versa.
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: yamahonkawazuki on June 19, 2006, 08:27:04 PM
try finding a 70a alternator for an '00 frontier  :mad: quite a bit more than most domestics ive seen :dunno_white:
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: makenzie71 on June 19, 2006, 08:30:47 PM
I can get you a new one with a warranty for less than $150...which is the same price as one for an 00~03 Focus (Zetec), a little more than a sunfire/cavalier (ecotec), and a little less than one for a Neon (just about any model).
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: yamahonkawazuki on June 20, 2006, 12:09:30 AM
ehh im hitting around the same give or take a few dollars. heh i miss the days when gm alternators were cheap as hell  now other than my truvck and my saturn ive no desire to drive small vehicles. basically rear drive and full size for me
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: makenzie71 on June 20, 2006, 12:23:39 AM
Alternators are still cheap as hell if you go about it right...find a shop that'll rewind them.  I had two stock, blown 80 amp alts from my 86 RX-7 rewound and hopped up to 200 amps for $40 a piece.
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: LimaXray on June 20, 2006, 07:08:07 AM
Check the wire harness to the coil pack, a wire may be broken in it.  This is a common problem with the Focus, and it's a Buddha Loves You to find.   After that replace the coil pack. 

Do you have a scan tool?  Go borrow one from an Advanced Autoparts or something and pull those codes and post them up.

Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: Jake D on June 20, 2006, 07:28:49 AM
Hey, Mak:

Is the SVT worth a damn?  I think they are great looking cars (I'd rather have an R32, but for the coin?). 
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: makenzie71 on June 20, 2006, 09:22:51 AM
The SVT's are awesome but don't expect much in the way of tuneabillity if you get one...they're pretty well maxed out.  An aquaintance of mine had one with a full exhaust, intake and a couple other little bolt on gidgets and only gained 3hp.

Outside of that they're light and super nimble and there's the all important 6-spd tranny.
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: Jake D on June 20, 2006, 09:59:27 AM
I read an article from a tuner mag where they had put a supercharger on one and didn't even really notice it that much. 

So, yeah, I guess they are maxed out.
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: makenzie71 on June 20, 2006, 10:06:37 AM
Well if they weren't running much boost then no, the difference would be subtle.  An SVT needs about 1bar before serious numbers start pouring out of her cylinders.

If you're considering boosting one, the 2.3 PZLEV is a better platform...but no 6spd...
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: manofthefield on June 20, 2006, 10:54:11 AM
Quote from: LimaXray on June 20, 2006, 07:08:07 AM
Check the wire harness to the coil pack, a wire may be broken in it.  This is a common problem with the Focus, and it's a Buddha Loves You to find.   After that replace the coil pack. 

Do you have a scan tool?  Go borrow one from an Advanced Autoparts or something and pull those codes and post them up.

Are you saying a wire coming to the coil pack, like from the computer, not a plug wire, would break?

I scanned it at the autoparts store and it came back with P302 and P303, misfire in cyl 2 & 3. 

I reset the computer after putting in the new plug wires.  Like I said, the plug wires helped a lot, but I can feel the occasional hesitation that was not there before.  So far the check engine light has not come back on either.  Something is obviously still wrong... I'll take a look at the coil pack when I get a chance.
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: LimaXray on June 20, 2006, 11:22:00 AM
Yeah the wireharness that goes to the ECU that plugs into the side of the coil pack. 

There should be 3 wires IIRC: ground, trigger coil A, and trigger coil B.

I'm sorry I totally missed that you said you scanned it already. 

The Focus (and most cars today) uses a wasted spark ignition system which means in that coil pack there are 2 ignition coils, each firing 2 non-sequential cylinders.  Just a misfire on 2 and 3 is odd; I believe the firing order is 1-4-2-3, so cylinders 2 and 3 are sequential and therefore not fired from the same coil.  If coils A and B fire cylinders 1 and 4 without a problem but not 2 and 3 and you checked/replaced your plugs and plug wires, then your ignition system is probably fine.  Check on that firing order though, I could be wrong, and check that wire harness regardless.

One possibility would be a blown head gasket.  This can cause a loss of compression on side-by-side cylinders which can in turn cause a misfire.  It may be worth your while to buy/borrow a compression tester and check it out.


Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: manofthefield on June 20, 2006, 12:04:05 PM
From a few random internet sources it appears that the firing order is 1-3-4-2 so it could be the coil pack.
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: LimaXray on June 20, 2006, 12:15:33 PM
Yeah I thought I was wrong about that firing order.  In that case, cylinders 2 and 3 fire off the same coil so that coil probably isn't firing while the other on is.  I'd say your problem is either one of the trigger wires in the coil pack wire harness is broken or the coil pack is bad.
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: Jason on June 20, 2006, 08:46:11 PM
I will go $100 on a bad fuel pump. It is most common when you drop below 1/2 tank of gas. This is way more common of a problem with the Focus than any of the stuff that was already mentioned. Ford actually put out a "silent" recall on it. I think the coveage went up to 6 years or 100,000 miles. I would call your ford dealer and ask them to run the VIN # to check for a fuel pump recall. Other than the fuel pump issuses the Focus is a great little car.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: LimaXray on June 21, 2006, 04:01:26 AM
Quote from: Jason on June 20, 2006, 08:46:11 PM
I will go $100 on a bad fuel pump. It is most common when you drop below 1/2 tank of gas. This is way more common of a problem with the Focus than any of the stuff that was already mentioned. Ford actually put out a "silent" recall on it. I think the coveage went up to 6 years or 100,000 miles. I would call your ford dealer and ask them to run the VIN # to check for a fuel pump recall. Other than the fuel pump issuses the Focus is a great little car.  :thumb:

Thought about that and I know about that recall, but that would cause a misfire in all 4 cylinders, and hes only getting it in 2... trust me, 1 coil isn't firing
Title: Re: Ford Focus misfire/ troubleshooting
Post by: Jason on June 21, 2006, 05:37:20 AM
I won't rule out that it could be a bad coil, but I have never seen a vehicle set the code for all cylinders missing. Like on the cougars that had the fuel pump issue it would miss like crazy, but only set two of the 6 cylinders codes. I have replaced plugged fuel filters on V-10's that would be missing like crazy and pull the codes and get a cyl 8 misfire. I would call and have the VIN checked, what the heck if it's free get it done.