It must've happened right as i was pulling up to a light. It looked like some guy in an SUV u-turned right in front of the rider...probably didn't see him. :mad: The guy was writhing in pain on the ground, and his KTM was wedged up under the SUV. It's so weird when you see someone that you pass almost every day down like that. You know you're both commuting, have the commonality of two wheels, and even interact by waving whenever you see each other. i have no idea who he is, but i feel i know him (and a handful of others like him). i wish there was something i could've done. There was a cop gunning people about 1/4 mile up the road, and someone flagged him down. So, thankfully he was able to get there by the time the light turned green again. i'll definitely be praying for KTM guy, and hope to pass him again soon.
Also, i remember seeing an article somewhere online about what you are supposed to do if you are the first to arrive on the scene of a motorcycle accident. Today, i realized i wouldn't really know what to do. Does anyone have a link to something like that?
Thats to bad i don't wish harm on any rider, even though sometimes it appears that this is what they inevitably want to happen. I hope that he makes a full recovery to share the road again.
After working as an EMT this is what we finally started telling people:
1) Call 911 ASAP They will give you further instructions This is the most important step because chances are you are going to be so flustered you aren't going to remember exactly what you're supposed to do
2) Do NOT move them!!!!!!!
3) Talk to them and see if they are responsive 911 will continue to give you instructions beyond this point
Use U-ABCC
U Urgency
Try to determine if the person's injuries are (a) minor or (b) major, i.e. urgent. If you aren't sure, it is urgent.
A Airway
Is there something to impede their airway? Gravel in the helmet, something down the throat? This needs to be cleared immediately, without helmet removal if at all possible.
B Breathing
Is the person breathing? Determined by listening, watching their chest, feeling for breath, etc.
C Circulation
Check the pulse on the throat initially and subsequently on their wrist. This is the carotid artery, right next to the wind pipe/adam's apple on either side. If pulse is not present, remove helmet if necessary and begin CPR immediately. When checking pulse on their wrist, do not check with thumb; use the two fingers next to the thumb.
C Cervical Spine Immobilization
Support the victim's head and make sure they don't move it. CONSIDER EVERY MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENT A HEAD INJURY, CONSIDER EVERY MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENT A CERVICAL/BACK INJURY! This is important even if they feel they can move their head normally! When you talk to the victim initially, add on a short bit to reassure them;
You've been in a motorcycle accident. It is important that you don't move. Tell them your name. Answer me without moving your head. We don't know if you have a neck injury or not. An ambulance is on the way.
Again, make sure that the victim does not move at all, their head or any other part.
The biggest thing we saw were cagers who had absolutely NO medical background trying to weasel their way in and f%$king things up. Don't be afraid to take charge and tell people to back the hell up unless they are better trained than you are. If you see them trying to do something stupid tell them that.
That is a very common accident that seems to claim a lot of very good riders.
My cousin was a motorcycle police instructor for ten years he was in an accident where someone did a u-turn in front of him. And again last month, anther motorcycle cop hit a car that did a u-turn in front of him here in KC.
These occurrences led my cousin to comment to me, "You know, how many accidents are really avoidable?" It seems that even the very best riders can be vulnerable to this type of accident. That and deer crossing in front of them.
So people, please watch for the u-turn. If there is any question, begin braking and making a plan.
As for the deer. . . just hope.
My uncle did hit a deer once..idk how he didnt go down. He accelerated over it or something it was a miracle he wasnt hurt. The bike had a mangled headlight and was messy but wasn't even that bad.
Thanks OP. That was helpful. i was on the other side of a divided road waiting at a light. And i was looking over the roof of a car to see what was happening. There were two cagers helping (one threw a blanket over him - not sure why), and i felt as a fellow rider, i should have somehow gotten over there and known what to do. But other than knowing not to remove their helmet or move their head, i didn't know what else. i hated wanting to help, but not being able to. :cry:
That's one of those things that you hope you don't have to use, but should really know.
i dont know if you posted this or not but assume something is f$%^&d up and DO NOT REMOVE the helmet :thumb:
see i live under this assumption.
there is no such thing as an un-avoidable accident. accidents happen cause someone somewhere f%^&$d up. although hitting the deer might be different in situations
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on June 21, 2006, 09:23:35 PM
there is no such thing as an un-avoidable accident. accidents happen cause someone somewhere f%^&$d up. although hitting the deer might be different in situations
The deer f%&ked up.
or...
The deer got f%&ked up.
someone makes a sticker you can put on your helmet that states to only EMT to remove helmet or somethign like that. its come up on another forum I frequent.
So you talked about this "commonality" thing and how you feel like you know him, but you didn't stop?
Quote from: pantablo on June 21, 2006, 10:22:34 PM
someone makes a sticker you can put on your helmet that states to only EMT to remove helmet or somethign like that. its come up on another forum I frequent.
yeah ive got those on my helmets, its says attn! if i am unconscious do NOT remove the helmet
Quote from: makenzie71 on June 21, 2006, 10:45:00 PM
So you talked about this "commonality" thing and how you feel like you know him, but you didn't stop?
Come on man, he already feels bad.
What the hell was he going to do if he had stopped anyways, besides just stand there and feel bad for the guy?
I'm sure the injured rider would have been completely oblivious that another rider stopped anyways.
There is a really famous riding instructor that just passed away last month. His name escapes me right now. It was a deer that got him. He was regarded as one of the best and safest riders in the country. His wife is quoted as saying that he had remarked in the past that "(w)hen I die, it is going to be a deer that gets me." Freaky.
Quote from: B18C5-EH2 on June 22, 2006, 08:46:05 AM
Quote from: makenzie71 on June 21, 2006, 10:45:00 PM
So you talked about this "commonality" thing and how you feel like you know him, but you didn't stop?
Come on man, he already feels bad.
What the hell was he going to do if he had stopped anyways, besides just stand there and feel bad for the guy?
I'm sure the injured rider would have been completely oblivious that another rider stopped anyways.
He could have started by simply talking to the guy to see if he was coherent and getting him to lie still....flopping around isn't the best thing to do when something hurts after an accident.
There were a lot of things he could do...point is, though, he says he felt like he knew the guy. I'm not sure about any of you, but I couldn't leave anyone I "felt like I know" on the ground after a wreck.
Quote from: Jake D on June 22, 2006, 08:57:23 AMThere is a really famous riding instructor that just passed away last month. His name escapes me right now.
Larry Grodsky, the "Stayin' Safe" columnist for
Rider magazine.
Here is a
pretty good writeup (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06101/681096-122.stm) about him. LOTS of folks hated to see him go....
Quote from: makenzie71 on June 22, 2006, 09:53:42 AM
Quote from: B18C5-EH2 on June 22, 2006, 08:46:05 AM
Quote from: makenzie71 on June 21, 2006, 10:45:00 PM
So you talked about this "commonality" thing and how you feel like you know him, but you didn't stop?
Come on man, he already feels bad.
What the hell was he going to do if he had stopped anyways, besides just stand there and feel bad for the guy?
I'm sure the injured rider would have been completely oblivious that another rider stopped anyways.
He could have started by simply talking to the guy to see if he was coherent and getting him to lie still....flopping around isn't the best thing to do when something hurts after an accident.
There were a lot of things he could do...point is, though, he says he felt like he knew the guy. I'm not sure about any of you, but I couldn't leave anyone I "felt like I know" on the ground after a wreck.
i haven't been on much since i posted this originally. Just so Mak doesn't write me off as heartless, i'll explain why i didn't stop: It was on the PCH, which is a 4-6 lane highway with frequent stoplights between Santa Monica and Malibu. i was in the between the far right lane and middle lanes and had two rows of cars between me and the median. The wreck was in the far lane of the other side of the road. It was rush hour traffic...so for stopping, i didn't have any options that didn't involve crossing several lanes of busy traffic. i could've gone straight and turned around at the next light (3/4 mi down the road) and u-turn and come back around. And since the cop was pulling up as my light turned green, i didn't think i'd be able to do anything other than stand and watch. :cry: It wasn't as simple as me just pulling over. The way i even noticed the accident (again, it was 5 lanes of cars over), was a guy across the intersection got out of his car and was trying to wave down the cop. The course of action i almost took was running the red light i was at to go get the cop...but as i was about to, he noticed the guy waving frantically and started racing toward the intersection (on a service road).
Anyway, all that to say, i didn't just see the accident, think to myself "that's unfortunate" and then motor by. The whole situation sucked, and i hated not being able to stop.
Hey for reference, where can I order a couple of those stickers?
I'd hate to be paralyzed by someone's misguided good intentions.
monkey-
Go over to bayarearidersforum.com, there is a sticky on the general page about accident scene management that is probably the article you were thinking of.
Yeah, that's the one i had seen:
http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34491
Thanks aplitz.
12thmonkey: I'm sorry to hear of your trauma, and it *is* a trauma when we see an accident like that that we can identify with. It's difficult to think clearly and quickly when there's a thousand cars moving around you (plus the shock of seeing something like that makes things even MORE difficult). It sounds as though the rider already had help, and if the cop was just about there, they'd likely not have let you close to the scene anyway.
I think about the riders I see every day while I'm riding. I've seen some very hairy situations, so reviewing the how-to's of accident-scene management is something I do, too, all the while hoping that I'll never EVER have to use any of this knowledge (and at the same time hoping that if the knowledge IS needed, that I'll be in the right place at the right time for a rider who's gone down).
You're making a difficult experience into a positive by educating yourself and sharing your experience. Thank you for that. And all of us sending our good thoughts, prayers, chants, midnight bonfire dances, etc, can't hurt either.
Quote from: Kerry on June 22, 2006, 10:34:52 AM
Quote from: Jake D on June 22, 2006, 08:57:23 AMThere is a really famous riding instructor that just passed away last month. His name escapes me right now.
Larry Grodsky, the "Stayin' Safe" columnist for Rider magazine.
Here is a pretty good writeup (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06101/681096-122.stm) about him. LOTS of folks hated to see him go....
I don't know any details about Rich's (
Phaedrus') accident, but his passing made me pay special attention to this part of David Edwards' editorial in the August 2006 issue of
Cycle World:
On his way home to Pittsburgh from the safety conference in California [...] Grodsky detoured to Big Bend National Park in Texas to shoot photos for a feature story. He had planned to stay the night in nearby Marathon but there were no vacancies in the town's two hotels, so
after dark [KJB: emphasis added] he pushed on toward Fort Stockton, 60 miles distant. It was on Highway 385, a lonely two-lane, that Grodsky and the deer tragically crossed paths.[/list]
It was news to me that Grodsky's collision with a deer happened
at night. I can't say that I fault the man ... I have ridden long distances on two-laners at night too, and been scared by deer sightings more times than I care to remember. For whatever reason I felt compelled to push on, get home, find a place to sleep, etc.
From the article link in the "Quote" above:
"Just a few weeks ago he said to me, 'That's how I'm going to go, it's going to be a deer.' He could deal with all the idiot drivers, but at night when a deer jumps in your path, that's it and he knew that."
(Maybe from that I could/should have inferred that Grodsky's accident happened at night. Anyway...)
Although it may mean that I never get an Iron Butt patch, riding through rural areas at night is going to have to become nothing but a memory for me. Maybe if I "have to" ride at night I'll plan ahead to switch my 2-laner preference over to busy freeways? I dunno....