First off, a few things:
1) This is not for beginners.
2) This is not for beginners.
Thank you.
I installed a 14T front sprocket on my GS500 on Monday, June 26, 2006. I was lucky enough to live in the same city as the seller (pretty much the only reason I bought it, actually) so I picked it up and installed it that night. Thanks go out to Phaedrus for the quick walk-through that eliminated any of the guesswork I might have had in installing it.
Quick math:
Stock gearing on a GS500 is 16 front, 39 rear. Installing a 14 tooth front sprocket increases the revs:
16/14 = 1.142857
This means that there is a 14.285% increase in revs at a given speed in a given gear. For reference, at 80mph in 6th gear with stock gearing the tachometer reads ~6000 RPM. With the 14 tooth front sprocket it reads at ~7000 RPM, right at the start of the good stuff.
My only problem encountered after installing the sprocket was that my chain is at the end of its adjustments. After 13,000 some miles and a new sprocket, I'll replace it.
My first impression of the sprocket was that it made first gear have a lot more pull off idle. Even feathering the clutch I could tell the difference immediately. I spent the next few days commuting back and forth to work on local neighborhood roads, never getting it past 50mph or so. It was readily noticeable that in a given gear there was more power availible at the speed due to the RPM jump. It typically sets everything right into the powerband and I don't have to ring it out so hard anymore, as it's already there! :)
On my second day commuting I had become accustomed to it already and it just felt normal. I ride by feel and sound, so the bike behaved just as it did before, it just required less effort to do so. I know that if I need more throttle I give it some, but only after I step off the bike do I realize I didn't have to ring the bloody hell out of it. It requires a lot less concentration to ride fast than it did before, which was my main goal. If you want it to feel like the stock bike, you can always upshift (unless you're in 6th already).
After work on that day I decided to see how the bike behaved on the freeway. I didn't notice any extra buzziness due to the RPM increase, but rather only noticed that the bike was ready to jump at all times (relatively speaking of course, it IS a GS after all). The bike is right at the good stuff in the powerband at highway cruising speeds, so there is no longer a need to downshift in order to pass cars. Of course you still CAN downshift, but it isn't necessary now. 6th gear has essentially become 5th gear.
On my way home I was at 30mph in second gear and I pulled in the clutch a little bit while still holding the throttle down, then let out the clutch pretty quickly (just to see, ya know?). Well, whadda ya know? The GS pops its wheel at 30mph in second gear with only a little effort with the clutch. To be honest, I'm kinda scared to try it in first gear. And to be honest, I loved it. It was an absolute hoot having the wheel pop up like that; I didn't ride it out for long, just a hop and it was back down, but it was still made me laugh and smile for longer than it should have. For reference, the only time I could get the wheel even minorly up in 2nd gear with stock gearing was hard shifting into second. Now given, I didn't try very hard, but it usually only ended up accelerating me with a jolt. Now for all the people that have the thought of "OMG WHEELIEZ IN TEH STREET ON PUBLIC ROADS!!! OMGZ SQUIDD!!!!1" I'll let you know I was wearing my gear, there were no cars around, and I was by myself on the bike.
I took a quick (10 miles maybe) ride through a moderately twisty bit near my house consisting of mainly 25 to 35 mph sweepers. I really enjoyed the new feel of the bike and, like I said earlier, it was just a lot easier to ride fast. I encountered a stop light on this road, and with a straight away in front of it I decided to see what the GS felt like pulling hard from a stop. 1st gear tops at around 30mph and pulls a lot better than stock. If I knew how to drag race and get good starts I'm sure it'd be more impressive, but it's fine for what I'm used to (I slip the clutch and do it by feel). Hard shifting into second, meaning clutch in, shift, then drop the clutch essentially, will cause the bike to pop up a little bit as it climbs revs even higher. Hard shifting into third also causes the front end to come up a little bit. Wheelie in third? Dayum. I never knew it until now, but wheelies are fun.
This is not a modification for beginners. The power delivery is much more dramatic and basically not noob friendly. It is less forgiving of mistakes and can get you into trouble a lot faster if you aren't careful. If you drop the clutch too fast the bike can easily come up and if you hammer the throttle coming out of a turn (meaning you don't have smooth throttle control and just open it wide up) the rear wheel could easily spin loose on you.
However, if you're an experienced rider and want a little more pep to your life, this is a cheap and easy way to get it.
I'd be interested to know what kind of hit your gas mileage takes.
-M
Quote from: Mandres on June 30, 2006, 10:35:14 AM
I'd be interested to know what kind of hit your gas mileage takes.
-M
I noticed that with the stock gearing the bike got better gas mileage the harder I rode it. That means I'm either lean up top or rich on the mids (whatever, the bike works fine and the plugs look great). But I'll definitely get a gas mileage report when I fill up.
I'm leaving for San Antonio in a few hours and 100 miles will be thrown onto the odometer by the time I get there. I'll have to fill up before I leave, so expect it soon!
AHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Alpha, i might just follow your lead on this one, our local track is really tight anyways and I want the GS to be the Giant Slayer.
(Plus wheelies sound stupid....... stupid fun..... )
Think of this if you go nuts and drop in those 79mm's you were talking about, AHAHAHHAHA!!!
I think im gonna do this too,
a K&N lunchbox
stage 3 jet
14 tooth sprocket
ok maybe not
someboy likes to pop wheels :icon_mrgreen:
how much did it cost you for the sprocket, and did you have to tighten the chain?
How hard is it to install and setup? I might be interested in this if it still lets me get up to 85-90mph so I can commute to work. Sounds like this kind of mod would give me exactly what I want from my GS. This way I wouldnt want to buy a new motorcycle to get the response I want.
Quote from: dracflamloc on June 30, 2006, 07:12:32 PM
How hard is it to install and setup? I might be interested in this if it still lets me get up to 85-90mph so I can commute to work. Sounds like this kind of mod would give me exactly what I want from my GS. This way I wouldnt want to buy a new motorcycle to get the response I want.
Eh, even with the 15T sprocket, prolonged 85-90mph is kidna pushing the RPM's too high. And that is indicated MPH - not even real MPH! I can only imagine a 14T :thumb:
Well screw this, Im gonna get a 2 tooth sprocket, then ill show you alpha
Mmkay, I'm still in San Antonio and here's some info:
Yes, I had to tighten the chain. A lot. Now I need a new one because it is on the last bit of the adjusters.
The vibes come in at 8000 RPM and go away at 8250ish. That's right around 90mph, but might be cured with different bar ends. Also, I have SM2s so the stock bars might vibrate differently.
I travelled all the way down to San Antonio (100 mile trip) at around 85 to 90mph and didn't really mind the vibes that much. I'm hardcore and super tough though, you might be annoyed by them. As said before, 80mph is 7k rpm, and I had a nice little run up to 110 indicated, which was at 10k rpm. Max speed will be right around 120 (if it can even get there). The bike pulled a lot easier to the big numbers than it did before, and I was in top gear!
I got the sprocket for $11 off eBay from a guy here in Austin. You can get one from a retailer for ~$20.
Gas mileage update!
170.3 miles - 4.000 gallons = 42.575
Before this I was getting on average between 43 and 45mpg. I will probably end up getting better mileage around town, as I was cruisning at 85mph and above (up to 110) for about 90 miles of that 170.
Wow, I may very well have to do this, LOL.
Yea this sounds great. $20 and a slightly lower top speed maybe is definitely worth it when comapred to selling the GS for a 4-5000$ bike with the pep I want.
Quote from: dracflamloc on July 01, 2006, 07:19:12 PM
Yea this sounds great. $20 and a slightly lower top speed maybe is definitely worth it when comapred to selling the GS for a 4-5000$ bike with the pep I want.
Actually, the top speed is higher for me. I've gotten it to 115 on a country back road with no cars. Took a long time to get there too. This climbed to 110 a lot easier. I have a feeling it'd hit 120 if I asked it.
It can definitely scoot if it needs to. Much more good around town, and I really didn't mind the highway that much either.
I gotta admit though, wheelies are fun.
Wow i really want to try this now!!
Dropping two up front with the GS' gearing isn't that severe...it's a life/death scenario with my TL.
Quote from: makenzie71 on July 03, 2006, 08:01:59 PM
Dropping two up front with the GS' gearing isn't that severe...it's a life/death scenario with my TL.
Yeah. I'd be piss scared to try it on a bigger bike with *ahem* availible torque.
But yeah, good mod, but the whole needing a chain thing sucks ass.
Filled up on gas today - 90 miles with 1.7 gallons = 53mpg!!
needing a chain isn't that bad. You can pick up a brand new 525 roller $15 (I LOVE roller chains!!)
Quote from: makenzie71 on July 03, 2006, 09:50:26 PM
needing a chain isn't that bad. You can pick up a brand new 525 roller $15 (I LOVE roller chains!!)
Roller? Wha? O-ring? Non o-ring?
Roller chains don't have "rings". They're all metal.
Roller chains are lighter and smoother after they've warmed up. There's virtually no restriction in movement as seen with ringed chains. They're cheaper to manufacture which allows you to buy stronger chains at comparabe costs...meaning a quality 4140 steel 525 chain and sprocket will run just under $400, hold up to 500hp, weigh less than an RK Gold 520 X-Ringer with aluminum rear (4140 front, though), and outlast the bike.
The only drawbacks to rollers are they're noisier and they must be propperly cared for. I even run one on my TL.
did you get a strange small flat spot on hard acceleration after doing it, i did with mine, no flat spot before and as soon as it was done bam its there its not a big problem just a little annoying I was thinking it may be a jet thing eg bike picks up revs quicker jets may not allow it to fuel up quick enough that sort of thing, thought it may just have been a coincidence but now others are doing it maybe you had the same problem.
Thankfully my new exhaust comes this week then off for a rejet and dyno tune so hopefully that will fix it. :thumb: :cheers:
Quote from: Lukewarm Wilson on July 03, 2006, 10:57:58 PM
did you get a strange small flat spot on hard acceleration after doing it, i did with mine, no flat spot before and as soon as it was done bam its there its not a big problem just a little annoying I was thinking it may be a jet thing eg bike picks up revs quicker jets may not allow it to fuel up quick enough that sort of thing, thought it may just have been a coincidence but now others are doing it maybe you had the same problem.
Thankfully my new exhaust comes this week then off for a rejet and dyno tune so hopefully that will fix it. :thumb: :cheers:
What type of zorst system you getting
Quote from: Lukewarm Wilson on July 03, 2006, 10:57:58 PM
did you get a strange small flat spot on hard acceleration after doing it, i did with mine, no flat spot before and as soon as it was done bam its there its not a big problem just a little annoying I was thinking it may be a jet thing eg bike picks up revs quicker jets may not allow it to fuel up quick enough that sort of thing, thought it may just have been a coincidence but now others are doing it maybe you had the same problem.
Thankfully my new exhaust comes this week then off for a rejet and dyno tune so hopefully that will fix it. :thumb: :cheers:
Honestly, I've never noticed a flat spot. I put a K&N drop in without the restrictor in on the stock jetting almost as soon as I got it, and then changed directly over to a lunchbox filter. I resolved most (if not all) of the jetting issues people experience. The '04s seem to have taken care of it as well, as I haven't heard many complaints about them.
Basically, the thing feels like it hauls more ass than it used to, even if it isn't.
Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on July 01, 2006, 07:58:52 AM
I'm hardcore and super tough though
Just wanted to bring this to the attention of people who can set custom titles.
Two observations here:
1, You basically removed 6th gear and added a super-low drive like the old Suzuki 125 Cat (for climbing trees).
2, It's a little like doing that to a VW Beetle, which is how I view the GS500 among bikes. I like my stock 2001 a lot, it's a big improvement over my 27-year-old GS400, and it runs fine in every gear. It gets about 75mpg.
Quote from: ballyhoo on July 04, 2006, 09:45:24 AM
Two observations here:
1, You basically removed 6th gear and added a super-low drive like the old Suzuki 125 Cat (for climbing trees).
2, It's a little like doing that to a VW Beetle, which is how I view the GS500 among bikes. I like my stock 2001 a lot, it's a big improvement over my 27-year-old GS400, and it runs fine in every gear. It gets about 75mpg.
1. Yes. I rarely used 6th gear except for highway cruising, but even then I had to downshift to pass cars.
2. People have been hot rodding VW Beetles for years. Yeah the GS500 is a big improvement over the GS400, but it's still old engine design from the 70s. You get 75mpg (Imperial) which is 62.5mpg US. I was getting 55mpg US with my stock bike, and got 53mpg US last fill up. Getting 62.5mpg US means you're probably short shifting or cruising at 55mph or so the whole time. You use the bike differently than I do, as I keep the revs high all the time so that I have power to pass cars whenever I want. No more downshifting.
What type of zorst system you getting
Quote
_______________________________________________________________________________
Jardine hoping it arrives today but have to wait a week or so to gather the funds for the dyno tune :thumb: :cheers:
I'm missing something here.... :cookoo:
ok, you've shortened the gearing to increase the power(through each gear).
I think you're saying that sixth gear now feels like it has the power that one would normally feel in a stock bike's 5th gear.
shortening the gearing = more power felt through each gear. shouldn't that also equal a much LOWER max speed???
I dont understand how you're doing close to 120mph when you've shortened the gearing. Once you change sprockets, doesn't it throw the speedometer way off?? So when your speedo reads 120mph, how fast do you think you're REALLY going?
What you're saying isnt making sense to me; It does sound like a very interesting mod though. I am thinking of doing something with the sprockets as well. I hardly ever cruise above 80mph; I actually try to avoid the highway altogether because it's boring. I'm just worried about the gear changes being annoyingly close :thumb:
Quote from: l3uddha on July 05, 2006, 06:08:52 PM
I'm missing something here.... :cookoo:
ok, you've shortened the gearing to increase the power(through each gear).
I think you're saying that sixth gear now feels like it has the power that one would normally feel in a stock bike's 5th gear.
shortening the gearing = more power felt through each gear. shouldn't that also equal a much LOWER max speed???
I dont understand how you're doing close to 120mph when you've shortened the gearing. Once you change sprockets, doesn't it throw the speedometer way off?? So when your speedo reads 120mph, how fast do you think you're REALLY going?
What you're saying isnt making sense to me; It does sound like a very interesting mod though. I am thinking of doing something with the sprockets as well. I hardly ever cruise above 80mph; I actually try to avoid the highway altogether because it's boring. I'm just worried about the gear changes being annoyingly close :thumb:
The speedo is driven off the front wheel. So messing with tire sizes, sprockets, etc, doesn't change anything. At least, that's my understanding.
Quote from: l3uddha on July 05, 2006, 06:08:52 PM
shortening the gearing = more power felt through each gear. shouldn't that also equal a much LOWER max speed???
Yes,
if you could hit redline in 6th gear.
Quote from: l3uddha on July 05, 2006, 06:08:52 PM
Once you change sprockets, doesn't it throw the speedometer way off??
Nope. The indicated speed is entirely dependent on the RPM of the front wheel. So, changing to a different size of (front) tire can mess with your indicated speed, but nothing in the drive train affects it.
So this mod should technically still allow cruising speeds of 80-90mph or maybe even more?
Quote from: dracflamloc on July 05, 2006, 10:11:25 PMSo this mod should technically still allow cruising speeds of 80-90mph or maybe even more?
Technically, yes.
With stock sprockets and BT45s in stock sizes, at an indicated 80 MPH in 6th gear, my RPMs are around 6500. Multiply that by 16/14 (which is ~1.14) and I would be running at about 7410 RPMs with a 14-tooth front sprocket. Add roughly 1100 RPMs for each additional 10 MPH. It's more a question of how many RPMs
you can stand to run
your engine at.
The nice thing about front sprocket swaps is that they are 1) cheap and 2) easy to do AND to
undo. Why not get both a 15-tooth and a 14-tooth at the same time? Then you can try both ... and resell the sprocket you like the least, or keep it around for a later "retest".
Quote from: l3uddha on July 05, 2006, 06:08:52 PM
ok, you've shortened the gearing to increase the power(through each gear).
I think you're saying that sixth gear now feels like it has the power that one would normally feel in a stock bike's 5th gear.
shortening the gearing = more power felt through each gear. shouldn't that also equal a much LOWER max speed???
I didn't increase the power. I just changed the way the power is delivered to the wheel. The engine revs higher in a certain gear at a particular speed now, which puts the engine in its powerband much sooner and easier.
Theoretically yes it will lower the maximum speed. However, that is only if the vehicle is GEARING limited to top speed. That means the vehicle has enough power to get it to that spot, but the engine's redline is the limiting factor. However, if the engine is POWER limited to top speed, lowering the gearing can INCREASE the top speed because it brings the engine into the powerband for each gear.
Quote from: l3uddha on July 05, 2006, 06:08:52 PM
I dont understand how you're doing close to 120mph when you've shortened the gearing. Once you change sprockets, doesn't it throw the speedometer way off?? So when your speedo reads 120mph, how fast do you think you're REALLY going?
I only hit 110 indicated, but I noted the RPM it was at and compared it to the RPMs of earlier and just made an estimate of my gearing limited top speed which I assume it could get to.
Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on July 05, 2006, 06:39:33 PM
The speedo is driven off the front wheel. So messing with tire sizes, sprockets, etc, doesn't change anything. At least, that's my understanding.
Bingo.
Quote from: dracflamloc on July 05, 2006, 10:11:25 PM
So this mod should technically still allow cruising speeds of 80-90mph or maybe even more?
Yeah, you just might have to get used to running it at 7000 to 8000 RPMs for cruising speeds, but after that it's fine.
Quote from: Kerry on July 05, 2006, 10:58:13 PM
The nice thing about front sprocket swaps is that they are 1) cheap and 2) easy to do AND to undo. Why not get both a 15-tooth and a 14-tooth at the same time? Then you can try both ... and resell the sprocket you like the least, or keep it around for a later "retest".
Yeah. I planned on getting a 15 tooth sprocket eventually, but this one came up and was perfect because it was cheap and local, so jumped on the deal. It works fine for me thus far and hasn't given me problems.
Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on July 03, 2006, 07:27:40 PM
I gotta admit though, wheelies are fun.
Squidly :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
So what do I do, just search ebay for "14T sprocket"?
Quote from: dracflamloc on July 06, 2006, 05:37:50 AMSo what do I do, just search ebay for "14T sprocket"?
No, unless maybe you include some variation of "GS500" with that.
Take a look at this
Chains & Sprockets (http://www.bbburma.net/Documents/GS500_Chains&Sprockets.txt) page. The info is almost a year old now, but there are 2 or 3 sources listed there that you could double-check.
Ah. So what tools are needed to do this mod and adjust the chain? Is there a how-to anywhere?
Also, should I get another chain? What kind/where should I get it?
Thanks for the info this mod sounds really cool and if I don't like it I can always switch it back without too much hassle it seems.
Quote from: dracflamloc on July 06, 2006, 09:04:29 AMwhat tools are needed to do this mod and adjust the chain?
This is all you need for the front sprocket:
(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_2032_FrontSprocketTools.jpg)
I didn't have the snap ring pliers the first time I replaced my sprocket. Unfortunately, I can't remember what I DID use.
To adjust the chain you need something like pliers to remove the cotter pin, a 21mm (or 22mm?) socket or wrench to loosen the axle nut, and a 12mm wrench to turn the adjusters on the back of the swingarm. Oh, and a new cotter pin or hitch pin for when you put it back together. Ideally you would also use a torque wrench for the axle nut, but you could maybe get around that by counting / measuring the visible threads before removing the nut.
Quote from: dracflamloc on July 06, 2006, 09:04:29 AMIs there a how-to anywhere?
I know that there are multiple posts that describe the process. Check the FAQ area first, then try a search.
Quote from: dracflamloc on July 06, 2006, 09:04:29 AMAlso, should I get another chain? What kind/where should I get it?
You don't need to get a new chain just because you change to a smaller front sprocket. Unless the chain has already "stretched" and you can't move the rear wheel back far enough to get the correct tension. (How many miles on your current chain?)
If you DO need a new chain, check the top section of the same "Chains & Sprockets" page I linked to earlier. I'm sure there are many sources besides those, but that should get you started.
Thanks for the help. I've found some good threads on the topic with a few pics but no how-to kind of deal.
I'm not sure how old the chain is. I just bought the bike about 1.5 mo's ago. It looks like its in good condition. No rust or anything. Nice and sorta-shiny ;)
Quote from: Kerry on July 06, 2006, 09:18:56 AM
I didn't have the snap ring pliers the first time I replaced my sprocket. Unfortunately, I can't remember what I DID use.
I just used needle nose pliers. They worked well enough.
Quote from: Kerry on July 06, 2006, 09:18:56 AM
To adjust the chain you need something like pliers to remove the cotter pin, a 21mm (or 22mm?) socket or wrench to loosen the axle nut, and a 12mm wrench to turn the adjusters on the back of the swingarm. Oh, and a new cotter pin or hitch pin for when you put it back together. Ideally you would also use a torque wrench for the axle nut, but you could maybe get around that by counting / measuring the visible threads before removing the nut.
22mm for the nut and 17mm for the bolt. I usually need both because the axle just spins.
Quote from: Kerry on July 06, 2006, 09:18:56 AM
You don't need to get a new chain just because you change to a smaller front sprocket. Unless the chain has already "stretched" and you can't move the rear wheel back far enough to get the correct tension. (How many miles on your current chain?)
I only needed a new chain because of the drastic change in teeth on the front. My chain has about 13,500 miles on it right now and still has the correct tension, but it's at the end of its adjusters. Just depends on the chain. Also, eBay has some okay deals on chains, so check there too.
Quote from: dracflamloc on July 06, 2006, 09:59:02 AM
Thanks for the help. I've found some good threads on the topic with a few pics but no how-to kind of deal.
I'm not sure how old the chain is. I just bought the bike about 1.5 mo's ago. It looks like its in good condition. No rust or anything. Nice and sorta-shiny ;)
Check out a topic called "The Right 15 tooth Front Sprocket for the GS500F" or something similar. Phaedrus did a write up how-to in there with pictures and everything.
sounds like a very cool mod. and yes, I know you didn't "technically" increase the power... I just couldnt think of the proper way to word it. powerband sounds better :icon_mrgreen:
so you can (probably) hit 120 on the speedo with this mod :thumb:, but does the shifting feel much different? I'm under the impresstion that you've brought an already close gearing much closer.
...I suppose I should just shut up and do it already. :icon_mrgreen:
i cant stand that high of a rpm, i want my engine to last.
o, i looked at the page, no 18 or 19 front ?
19T front: 0-60 in 'theory'
Quote from: l3uddha on July 06, 2006, 01:35:05 PM
sounds like a very cool mod. and yes, I know you didn't "technically" increase the power... I just couldnt think of the proper way to word it. powerband sounds better :icon_mrgreen:
so you can (probably) hit 120 on the speedo with this mod :thumb:, but does the shifting feel much different? I'm under the impresstion that you've brought an already close gearing much closer.
Shifting feels the same, you just have to do it a little bit more often, unless you short shift and don't mind accelerating at a non break neck pace. The gearing is closer, but not crazy close.
Quote from: rangerbrown on July 06, 2006, 03:30:27 PM
i cant stand that high of a rpm, i want my engine to last.
Eh, the GS engine is pretty bomb proof. Just keep it topped off with oil and do proper maintenance on it on time and it will last forever.
Did you notice any extra vibration? I put in a 15t the other day and noticed a very slight increase in vibration of the pegs. With good boots it's hardly noticible, but with my 'tester sneakers' I could tell it's there (still not bad though). This isn't something that's talked about often, but I'm under the impression a smaller sprocket would mean more vibration.
Quote from: LimaXray on July 06, 2006, 11:07:08 PM
Did you notice any extra vibration? I put in a 15t the other day and noticed a very slight increase in vibration of the pegs. With good boots it's hardly noticible, but with my 'tester sneakers' I could tell it's there (still not bad though). This isn't something that's talked about often, but I'm under the impression a smaller sprocket would mean more vibration.
I got vibration through the bars holding the RPMs at 8.5k to 9k. Since my pegs aren't rubber coated or rubber mounted they tend to vibrate more than the stockers, but it isn't super duper noticeable like the bars were. They vibrated a bit with the stock front sprocket, but I only noticed it on longer rides.
anyone make the 18 or 19 front sprocket?
I put in a 15T a couple weeks ago, and I think it's perfect. I can accelerate "fast enough" on the freeway in 6th. Only if I'm in a real big hurry do I downshift. I wouldn't go with a 14T because of al the freeway travel I do, and I just don't want my RPMs that high. Dropping 1 tooth I think is a bit more balanced amogn the advantages/disadvantages among gearing changes. I'll buy a bigger bike before doing any more performance work on my GS. I'm happy with it as is. Also - I've had it up to an indicated 125 mph (15T front sprocket, slightly larger front tire - can't remember the first number so {stock}/80/17) at about 10.5k RPMs. Didn't go any higher cuz I didn't want to journey into the valve float territory. Plus it was like 105 degrees out and I was on a desert freeway. Overheating would be bad.
i think im goin to do the 14 teeth convorsion... seems to be fun to ride after
I ordered a 14t. If its too crazy for me and won't allow the highway speeds I want then I'll just sell it here I guess.
You would be right to notice an increase in vibration with a smaller front sprocket. Its due to whats known as chordal action. Its an unwanted side effect of roller chain drives that Engineers have been trying to overcome for centuries. 15 teeth on a high reving sprocket should be regarded as the absolute minimum, anything lower and the sprocket will still work but it starts to seriously loose efficiency and become harsh in operation. This applies to roller chain drives in all machinery and not just bikes. Basically, roller chain cannot engage smoothly on small diameter sprockets as it is drawn on. It causes variations in chain speed which leads to a `pulsing` effect as it rotates between the sprockets. In addition to the vibration it induces elsewhere in the bike it will also reduce the lifespan of the chain and sprockets.
http://chain-guide.com/basics/2-2-1-chordal-action.html
Look at the graph in the link, it plots no of teeth against speed variation as a percentage. The line starts to shoot up at about 15 teeth, well thats chordal action kicking in.
Hello everyone.
I think this might be the first mod I perform on my 98 gs500. I love the gs but when I am under 4000 rpms it just feels like it has no power. I feel like this mod would put my rpms a bit higher and make my power much more useable.
Here is a question to anyone with this mod. Have you also replaced your rear sprocket or only the front sprocket? I am seriously considering this mod so let me know if you have also swapped the rear sprocket. I have a limited amount of knowledge about the gs but hopefully I can do this mod on my own. :icon_razz:
I get around 50 mpg but that is probably because I have to dog on the engine a lot fo get up in speed. I think with the type of riding I do this mod might increase my gas mileage. I ride mostly in the city and sometimes on the freeway so I am constantly shifting gears. I dont know if my reasoning is logical though. I dont think my bike needs a new chain but I guess I will find out when I try to install the sprocket. I was also considering a timing advance kit but I have not been able to locate one. The gs is my first bike so I dont want to modify it too much, but I feel like these two mods are necessary for my kind of riding. When I am cruising in the city at low rpms I just feel like the gs is slugish. My belief is that this modification will make the bike a little more peppy for city driving so I wont have to rev the engine so high.
Any comments on this would be greatly appreciated. My friend used to work at an atv shop so he can probably help me install it. thanks for your help everyone.
You don't need to change the rear sprocket, only the front. Changing the front sprocket takes less than 10 minutes, maybe 20 tops if it's your first time using a wrench. It is also easily reversable. Being a new rider, I would get a 15t sprocket, it's a little more forgiving than a 14t would be.
As for revving the GS, you have to rev it. It's a motorcycle, not a car. There is NO power under 4000 RPM, you should be cruising at LEAST at 4k. I personally cruise between 5k and 6k. Riding around on the GS under 4k is like riding around in a car under 1k, it has no power and will only lug. So don't be afraid to rev it, that is what it was designed to do!
edit: also, lowering the number of teeth on the front sprocket shoud give you WORSE gas mileage, but not too much worse
I agree with everything LimaXray said.
The first two things I said at the top of my first post was that THIS MOD IS NOT FOR BEGINNERS. I stand by that. On a stock bike you shouldn't be anywhere near 4000RPM unless you're going from a stop or coming from a stop. All other times you should be above 5k RPM if not higher. Try that for a while, then come back to us on this.
I shift at 6 and 7k a lot but when I try to save gas I shift it at 4k. Maybe I am just wasting gas doing this. I might just start with a 15t sprocket but by the description everyone has given I think 14t would be an okay swap.
When do you consider someone ready for this mod? Its not like I will be beating on the throttle every chance I can get just because the gears are changed. I just think it would make the bike a lot more peppy and fun to ride.
Quote from: okayf00l on July 11, 2006, 02:37:40 PM
I shift at 6 and 7k a lot but when I try to save gas I shift it at 4k. Maybe I am just wasting gas doing this. I might just start with a 15t sprocket but by the description everyone has given I think 14t would be an okay swap.
When do you consider someone ready for this mod? Its not like I will be beating on the throttle every chance I can get just because the gears are changed. I just think it would make the bike a lot more peppy and fun to ride.
I had about 8000 miles under my belt before I did this; main thing is to make sure you're comfortable riding in high RPMs. I was regularly shifting around 10k and 11k, and still do with this new sprocket. I was wailing on this thing with stock gearing, and still do it with the 14T.
Consider this... the power STARTS at 7k RPM.
Try running higher in the RPM range with stock gearing before you try this, I think.
Also, shifting around 4krpm - Since the engine has no power down there you are putting a lot of load on the engine, and thus wasting gas.
Just installed and rode it, about 1200 miles total here. But its really not that bad if you're smooth. If you're a raw beginner I def wouldn't do it until you're smooth on throttle and shifting in turns.
THat said wow does my bike feel like a new beast =) A tame GS-style beast but yea its alot more fun now and I'm really glad I did this especially since it was only a $20/30 minute mod.
I think if I rejetted this thing it'd be extremely 'quick' but even as is now its really quick.
One thing I noticed is I had to adjust my chain almost all the way as tight as the thing would let me coming from my 16 tooth.
I could probably pop a wheelie if I really tried but I think its not as easy as it is for Tad. I have a pretty stiff '00 katana 600 rear shock in mine and I only weigh 150lbs so compressing it enough for a true wheelie might be kinda hard but I can definitly feel the power there.
Overall probably one of the most satisfying mods for the buck.
Isn't it awesome?!
Yeah, my chain is at the end of its adjusters now too, that's why I said I needed a new chain.
You'll start getting used to it and start having the front pop up every now and again. Start out in 2nd gear at about 30mph, clutch in and rev it to 9k or so and then drop the clutch.
Nice. I am glad it is working out for you, alpha!
And to think, many moons ago I was mocked for the 14t idea... :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: thirdman on July 12, 2006, 10:39:50 PM
Nice. I am glad it is working out for you, alpha!
And to think, many moons ago I was mocked for the 14t idea... :icon_rolleyes:
You just gotta know how to sell it.
It's a lot of fun around town though. Thankfully my commuting right now is neighborhood streets and only the occasional jaunt up Mopac, it might change when I move into the new apartment. Unlikely though, since it should just be a run down 1st street or something until I get to campus, but whatever. Even cruising along at 75mph (ind) it's sitting below 7k. Works for me.
Alright, some more info:
I've been averaging 47.5 mpg the last two tanks. This is a mix of high speed interstate and around town.
Wheelies got boring a few weeks ago.
I accidentally wheelied a tiny bit trying to swerve out of the way of a car that merged suddenly in front of me. Not a fun situation, let me assure you. Could have been a lot worse had I paniced and not known what to do.
Ordered a new chain. Should be here in a few days. If you do this and your chain is almost dead, get a new chain ASAP.
I dont quite have the wheelie power yours does. But it certain takes off quicker.
You probably don't weigh 12 pounds like Alpha. :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: dracflamloc on August 04, 2006, 10:33:19 AM
I dont quite have the wheelie power yours does. But it certain takes off quicker.
It's a clutching thing. Give it a little throttle (5k or higher) and let go of the clutch fairly quickly. That's what happened to me when I tried passing the car; I didn't slip the clutch enough and it came up on me causing me to lose steering for a half second or so.
how much of wheelin can it do really?
Quote from: rangerbrown on August 04, 2006, 08:28:41 PM
how much of wheelin can it do really?
Clutched out at 6k or so it can wheelie the front axle up to chest level (estimation) with ease. If I had a 12 o'clock bar to stand on it would be there without hesitation.
I just ordered a 13, 14, and 15.....
The 13 is going to be just for play... a few times... then I might pass it on for Shipping only.... and yes, I'm buying a new chain.
Why the new chain? If the old one is still servicable just take a link out (assuming you know how to and have access to the gear). But in saying that it wont stay servicable for long with 13 teeth on the the front sprocket.
oh, I'm gonna run the hell out of it with the current chain.
The new chain is for when I put on the 14 or 15
Quote from: sledge on August 21, 2006, 03:49:56 PM
Why the new chain? If the old one is still servicable just take a link out (assuming you know how to and have access to the gear). But in saying that it wont stay servicable for long with 13 teeth on the the front sprocket.
My old chain was pretty worn. There were a few times when I didn't oil it on time, it sat outside, got rained on, went through dirt and grime and stuff. It was time to replace it anyways.
Got the new chain on too, and it was already towards the end of the adjusters. If you go with a 14T, you will need a 109 link or maybe even a 108 link chain, rather than the OEM 110.
As to the 13T, sledge is right. The 14T is pushing it on wear and whatnot on the sprockets. The 13T is going to kill it. Badly.
Sprockets dont like having less than about 14/15 teeth on them, any less and whats known as chordal action begins to take effect. Basically the chain cant engage smoothly at speed. The result is that chain speed becomes erratic and the sprockets begin to lose efficiency. It causes increased vibration in the drivetrain and reduces the overall service life of the chain and sprockets. If you want to alter the ratio its much better to increase the size of the rear sprocket as it incurrs far less losses in the system and doesnt compromise reliability.
Quote from: sledge on August 21, 2006, 05:01:57 PM
Sprockets dont like having less than about 14/15 teeth on them, any less and whats known as chordal action begins to take effect. Basically the chain cant engage smoothly at speed. The result is that chain speed becomes erratic and the sprockets begin to lose efficiency. It causes increased vibration in the drivetrain and reduces the overall service life of the chain and sprockets. If you want to alter the ratio its much better to increase the size of the rear sprocket as it incurrs far less losses in the system and doesnt compromise reliability.
Bingo. Like I said, the 14T is pushing it on that part. Looking back now, I wish I could have gotten a 15T front and a 42T rear, but that wouldn't have been nearly as cheap or as easy, as the 14T was located right down the road from me.
13T is downright silly.
I'm gonna get a sprocket like your grandma'.
Only five teeth.
the 13 will literally be on for less than 20 miles.
WOW!!!!!!!!!! I just did this mod!!! WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! My carb is screwed up and it still popped the wheel into the air. Can't wait to get my carb fixed up. Dont know for sure cause I had to rip the gauges off due to a little mishap where a Coke truck driver decided i didn't exist but based off braking distance I'd say I topped 100 on a 1/4 mile stretch I have marked off. Just an awesome mod. I'll probably see it even more when My carb gets fixed and rejetted!!!!!
Quote from: spcterry on March 14, 2007, 07:35:51 PM
WOW!!!!!!!!!! I just did this mod!!! WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! My carb is screwed up and it still popped the wheel into the air. Can't wait to get my carb fixed up. Dont know for sure cause I had to rip the gauges off due to a little mishap where a Coke truck driver decided i didn't exist but based off braking distance I'd say I topped 100 on a 1/4 mile stretch I have marked off. Just an awesome mod. I'll probably see it even more when My carb gets fixed and rejetted!!!!!
Yup. Be careful dropping the clutch in first gear, it CAN loop the bike.
Jesus this thread was old when I was new. :cookoo:
Anyways Alpha, you should knock a couple teeth out of your DRZ. That would be nutty... :icon_twisted:
Quote from: CirclesCenter on March 14, 2007, 08:44:12 PM
Anyways Alpha, you should knock a couple teeth out of your DRZ. That would be nutty... :icon_twisted:
No can do. Dropping a tooth on the countershaft causes the chain to rub parts of the engine casings. I'd have to go up on the rear, and apparently going up a few teeth will cause it to throttle wheelie in 1st. However, I do enough highway riding that gearing for higher RPM riding would end up getting real old real fast.
Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on March 14, 2007, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: CirclesCenter on March 14, 2007, 08:44:12 PM
Anyways Alpha, you should knock a couple teeth out of your DRZ. That would be nutty... :icon_twisted:
No can do. Dropping a tooth on the countershaft causes the chain to rub parts of the engine casings. I'd have to go up on the rear, and apparently going up a few teeth will cause it to throttle wheelie in 1st. However, I do enough highway riding that gearing for higher RPM riding would end up getting real old real fast.
That's some of that practical BS again huh Alphie....
DRZ = Practical?
Yeah aside from looping it also gets the attention of local law enforcement when you buzz through a light on one wheel. Found that one out a 240 dollar ticket later
Oh well gotta have fun while your young.
Off topic: I REUP this summer and might be coming into a substantial reenlistment bonus..........so would I be to retarded if I went and bought a Duc 998r??????I've got a buddy with one that sits in his garage and he only wants 8 for it.......He's not allowed to operate a motorcycle in the state of georgia anymore
Quote from: spcterry on March 21, 2007, 12:00:13 AM
Yeah aside from looping it also gets the attention of local law enforcement when you buzz through a light on one wheel. Found that one out a 240 dollar ticket later
That is why you
1) Look for cops.
2) Don't do that sort of stuff on the street (or at least not that big).
3) Don't run stop lights.
4) Don't be reckless.
I've talked to a few cops, and they said that a little pop due to dropping the clutch as you shift into a higher gear, or a little pop due to hard acceleration over a crest in the road is no big deal usually, provided you're not being reckless or there are cars around you. Doing stupid shaZam! like hoisting your wheel in the air through stop lights and in traffic is what gets you in trouble.
what do you all think about going up a tooth or two on the front sprocket? My HS auto teacher and riding mentor always went up in teeth on the front and down in teeth on the rear. He said it was for both the freeway and the twisties but i never got a chance to ask why. But in the twisties i don't really see why it would matter. a change up or down on front or back would help, wouldn't it? Down a tooth or two in front makes you wind up faster, you're higher in revs but you have to shift more. Up a tooth in front and you'd be able to stretch out a gear a lot farther, but it'd also take longer to get there.
Am i completely off? :dunno_white:
Well I'm gunna drop to 15T in front probably, sounds like a good time. But to reduce the chordal effect goodness everyone is lovin I think I may go up in teh rear instead (getting new tires so I'll have the rear off anyway. So my question is how many teeth do I need to go up in the rear to have the equivalent of down one tooth in the front. Just incase that didn't make sense. If I went 15T - 39T would the equivalent rear be 16T - 40T or is it more complicated then just number of teeth due to sprocket sizes? :dunno_white: Also it was mentioned that it would be a good idea to go down to a 109 chain, I assume this applies whether you go down one in the front or up x in the rear? and just to be an extra pain while we're on the subject of chains, I haven't replaced one yet, are there any other specs I need aside from the number of links (assuming that's what the 109# is)
I just realized what newb questions those are but even after 4000 miles my wrenching hasn't gone beyond chain tension, lube, and checking wear thus far when it comes to the drivetrain :)
Thanks guys, :cheers:
Quote from: ledfingers on March 21, 2007, 12:39:40 AM
Am i completely off? :dunno_white:
Yes, but you're right about the gearing. The GS can't stand too much more in the front (or down in rear), or you'll end up with the acceleration of a school bus.
I didn't run the light I just dropped the clutch real hard when it turned green :nono: oops.....
Im thinking about ordering a sprocket asap what kind of chain should I get to go along with it and will I need to take any teeth out? IM just concerned about messing with the back tire.
Quote from: okayf00l on April 17, 2007, 12:41:06 PM
Im thinking about ordering a sprocket asap what kind of chain should I get to go along with it and will I need to take any teeth out? IM just concerned about messing with the back tire.
I'm not sure I quite understand your post. You're thinking about ordering a sprocket (a 14T front, I assume) and you are asking if you need to take TEETH out of a chain? Do you mean LINKS?
You will be fine with a stock 520 chain with 110 links, if that's what your asking. I don't understand what you mean by "messing with the back tire" though. Could you clarify that a bit?
is it possible to take a link out, or plausible if my chain is near its end of adjustments?
1. You have to take out 2 links at a time.
2. Unless you have a valid reason (like fewer sprocket teeth), then absolutely not.
Yeah i just ordered a 14 tooth, and i might need to take 2 links out then. If i put the 16 tooth back in will i have to add the links again or would it be cool if i left it?
Quote from: serbianstunna on May 23, 2007, 09:31:23 PM
Yeah i just ordered a 14 tooth, and i might need to take 2 links out then. If i put the 16 tooth back in will i have to add the links again or would it be cool if i left it?
If you remove them for the 14 tooth... then logically you'd have to put them back in for the 16 tooth.
couldnt i just adjust my chain again?
Quote from: serbianstunna on May 24, 2007, 06:17:30 AM
couldnt i just adjust my chain again?
If you're having to remove them to keep proper chain length... you're going to have to add them back in to keep proper chain length...
Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on May 24, 2007, 08:08:17 AM
If you're having to remove them to keep proper chain length... you're going to have to add them back in to keep proper chain length...
Woah woah woah...you must be an engineer!
i dont kno if anyone's still checkin this post but i'm considering putting a renthal 14t sprocket in my gs 500 by what ive read in this forum, and ive read all seven pages, it should fix my main problems with the performance at a fairly low cost...but anyways i was just curious, because i live in a town with many roads where other vehicles are rarely on and i can practice things such as wheelies and stoppies, since you have been saying in the early posts that you love wheelies lol and u can do them , can you wheelie with just throttle in 1st and shift into second (i can shift in wheelies i have lots of practice with my kx 125 dirtbike), or can u throttle wheelie in second or do u have to slip the clutch in second, or can you even throttle wheelie at all????
with a 15 tooth would i have to remove links from my chain, or adjust the rear wheel back? Or can it be left alone?
no need to remove links with a 15t, i have a 15t in the front just tighten the chain and your ready to go, took all of like 10 min
Quote from: speeddemon190 on August 05, 2007, 10:41:18 PM
no need to remove links with a 15t, i have a 15t in the front just tighten the chain and your ready to go, took all of like 10 min
cool, thanks a lot.
I know that this thread has been dead for a while but is the the correct 15t sprocket?
http://www.jtsprockets.com/61.0.html?&L=0&sel_artnr=JTF565,15 (http://www.jtsprockets.com/61.0.html?&L=0&sel_artnr=JTF565,15)
no... the JT sprocket # is JTF516.15. I just did mine yesterday with a JT's
http://www.jtsprockets.com lists:
Quote
Suzuki GS500 E K/L/M/N/P USA
1988 to 1993
Front Sprocket: JTF 565.16
Rear Sprocket: JTR 823.39
Recommended Chain: : 520 / 110
Front sprocket available in: 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 teeth
Rear sprocket available in: 39, 41, 49, 45 teeth
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/galahs/gs500f/gs500_old_front_jtr823.jpg)(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/galahs/gs500f/gs500F_rear_jtr823.jpg)
The newer GS500's front sprocket doesn't have a flange!
Quote
Suzuki GS500 E R/S/T/V/W/X/Y/K1/K2 USA
1994 to 2002
Front Sprocket: JTF 516.16
Rear Sprocket: JTR 823.39
Recommended Chain: : 520 / 110
Front sprocket available in: 13, 14, 15, 16 teeth
Rear sprocket available in: 39, 41, 49, 45 teeth
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/galahs/gs500f/gs500F_front_jtr823.jpg)(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/galahs/gs500f/gs500F_rear_jtr823.jpg)
Quote
Suzuki GS500 F K4/K5/k6/k7
2004 to 2007
Front Sprocket: JTF 516.16
Rear Sprocket: JTR 823.39
Recommended Chain: : 520 / 110
Front sprocket available in: 13, 14, 15, 16 teeth
Rear sprocket available in: 39, 41, 49, 45 teeth
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/galahs/gs500f/gs500F_front_jtr823.jpg)(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/galahs/gs500f/gs500F_rear_jtr823.jpg)
so the 565.xx is for the older ones and the 516.xx is for the newer. All I know is my F too the 516.15.
Maybe those sprocket drawings should be on the wiki ?
I think so :thumb:
well i just got back fro 200 mi of rideing with the 14t front.....mi magusta mucho!!!!! There were 7 of us and I had the smallest bike byfar...the slowest bike besides me was a 07' GSX-R 600 then the next in line was a zx9-r....They weren't going balls to the wall but at a very spirited pace and I was able to keep up perfectly with them...then on the way home I rode up with a Ducati(sp?) 1098 and was able to keep up with him fairly well, still blew me away on the straits but I gained on him in the corners and I almost scraped a few hard parts when I get my lean on...I think I could almost drag a knee now but i don't have any pants or slider pucks......YAY! For the 14t....also we did like 175 Mi after I filled up (after me driving home) and I still got like 1/2 to 1/3 of a tank left.
like i said before. running the GS500 stock seems like a crime. this machine has so much more in it. add decent front shocks, rejet with a lunchbox filter, and drop a tooth in front and this thing will RUN.
what the hell does ricky racer do with those extra 100cc's? :dunno_white::flipoff:
this question was asked before (in this post) but wasn't answered: can you do a power wheelie in 1st gear? just by using throttle, no clutch involved??
I'll let you know once I get my 14 tooth on :thumb:
It'll probably power wheelie in 1st, but you're going to need to be at 9k rpms and give the bars a hefty tug to get it up. The GS is just not designed for this, if you want a decent wheelie for any length of time, a clutch is the way to go, it's a little terrifying at first but a stand up clutch up wheelie is more controllable than any power wheelie, always.
Run the bike to about 20 mph or get the engine to roughly 5k rpms, pull in the clutch, stay on the gas until the RPMs reach 7-8k rpms (1/2-3/4 of a second), drop the clutch while sitting back on the seat (no bar tugging), keeping your foot on the rear brake, try your best to balance the front end coming up by twisting the throttle (no more clutch) and by moving your weight. If this doesn't work, give the bars a slight tug, slow the speed down somewhat or try a higher RPM until you get the front up, always watch the rear brake and DO NOT try this from a standstill, it is almost completely uncontrollable and incredibly easy to go past 12 o'clock when doing this from a stop (don't ask how I know).
Good luck, maybe this'll help.
BTW, I just noticed that this was one of the last threads Phaedrus ever posted in, very sad.
I got a 108 Chain, will this fit with the New sproket or is it pretty much useless?
Havent decided weather or not to go with 15 or 14 yet
Brad
it will fit fine if you use the 14t, thats what size chain I run. as far as the 15t im not sure I just ran the stock chain.
anybody give me the part number on the sproket? I found a guy locally that carries sprokets but hes not sure what part number for our bikes.
Thanks
Brad
what about them smart chains from sidewinder anyone have any info on those
Installed it. much more get up and go. though prolonged cruising at 70 plus might not be a good idea
I got a 15t from the dealer for $16.00 but they had to order it
holy cow.. i have never been so excited to do a mod . its 1030pm here and i am ready to go out and knock down a motorcycle store door to get me a 14t sprocket. i love this forum. and yes i read all the 6 page post.. :thumb:
I'm glad you dug this up... I'm thinking this may be the next thing I do... or go up 4 teeth on the rear.
i still havent ran mine but i have 14/45 on my bike.
wow, I thought my 15/43 was fun, 14/45 should be even funner!!!!!
plus the 160 rear tire :woohoo:
when I purchased 15T I also purchased 14T. I never had balls thou to try 14T out... I think I'm just not ready to do F to E conversion ;) (15T is great though!!)
the one i have went on a 2001. does this have the sholder or not? i cant remeber the cut off.
Thanks
funny i found this just thread now, i was working on my bike right now and had a question about the gearing. see, i was led to believe that the stock gearing was 16/39, but i was just in there and happened to count the teeth on my front cog, and counted 15. i am by no means the first owner of this bike, (and the P/O was quite a squid,) but the markings on the cog are the same as on the (i assume...) stock cog in the wiki: http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/galahs/gs500f/gs500_old_front_jtr823.jpg so i assumed that it was stock.
what gives?
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3851/15t.jpg)
red arrow points to part number (JTF565-15)
That cog is not stock. Must've been replaced already...lucky you! The GS's do come with 16t front sprockets.
Yeah, 16/39 is the stock gearing. I guess it's all about what you want out of the bike, but I think you guys have it backwards. I went to 17/39 and I love it. (you have to get a longer chain, 110 links isn't enough) The bike is more long-legged now. Better on the expressway. More comfortable, and it'll still pull over 9 grand in 5th, reaching 111 on my '94 E model. If you want to do wheelies I understand, but otherwise I think you're forgetting if you want to rev it up you can always stay in a lower gear. Hell, you have six of them! I upped the gearing because on the expressway at 70 it wanted another gear, so I gave it one!
I dont run highway so not worried about that. I dont run it out to see top speed but what i do do (haha i said do do) is ride around town alot and ride it to work and just cruise around on it. I made my off the line doggy 500 more playful for me. :thumb:
Quote from: bill14224 on March 19, 2009, 09:14:28 PM
Yeah, 16/39 is the stock gearing. I guess it's all about what you want out of the bike, but I think you guys have it backwards. I went to 17/39 and I love it. (you have to get a longer chain, 110 links isn't enough) The bike is more long-legged now. Better on the expressway. More comfortable, and it'll still pull over 9 grand in 5th, reaching 111 on my '94 E model. If you want to do wheelies I understand, but otherwise I think you're forgetting if you want to rev it up you can always stay in a lower gear. Hell, you have six of them! I upped the gearing because on the expressway at 70 it wanted another gear, so I gave it one!
I agree. If your just commuting or doing long hauls, going 17 up front is the way to go!
I left something out. With a 17T you can still accelerate in 6th, and pulling away from a stop is still easy, so it's not over-geared. 6th gear is now actually an overdrive gear, unlike the stock gearing. If I wanna pull 5 digit rpm's, I can use the first 5 gears! :woohoo: I look at it this way. I have 6 gears and I want the last one to be overdrive. Without an overdrive, why have 6 gears at all?
This mod is actually for the lazy people who don't want to go down 2 gears just to pass a car.. we just want to twist our throttle and zip away. :thumb:
Quote from: Killermarmot on March 21, 2007, 01:54:15 AM
So my question is how many teeth do I need to go up in the rear to have the equivalent of down one tooth in the front.
according to the guys on the stuntlife forums, many of which backed this up, going down one in the front is equal to goin up six in the rear. i cant say for myself, mine are stock. thats just what ive been told.
quote from WIKI: "For reference - 80mph indicated in top gear is ~6000RPM. Stock gearing is 16/39. Going down a tooth in the front is equal to going up 3 in the rear. "
cheers
KML
To be absolutely precise, going down one on the front is equivalent to going up 39/16 on the rear, which is 2 7/16 (or about 2 1/2).
I can't remember what the front cog is anymore, I'll have to check when i get home, but I've got a giant rear 47t chainring on the rear, half because we wanted it to have more pull, and half because it's purple and Heather thought it was pretty. Either way it definitely made it more fun to ride, and Heather wasn't really comfortable with the 100+mph speeds anyway. It tops out around 95mph with 47t.
Personally, I think I'm done with the highway for a while now, so I'd much rather have a bike that topped out much lower just so I had more pull everywhere under 40-50mph.
I have read this and many threads looking for some help with this stuff. So far I am still confused on some things.
I have a 15T up front and want to go up in the rear. If I go to a 40, 41, or 42 in the rear, will I lose even more highway speed then? Will I gain that much more low end though? I see these guys with 15/45's and I am thinking that they must be pulling wheelies from idle, lol.
If I went to a 40 that would negate the front going down one I would think as far as links. I think of the power as evening out though but I am sure I am wrong. I race RC's as well and when I lower the pinion (front sprocket) and increase the spur (rear sprocket) I get better torque for less top end. SO I am betting that will happen to the GS as well.
Well, if I did go to 41 I would need a 112 link chain. So then I am looking into another realm of things I don't know about - o-ring, x-ring, roller, etc... I have so much to learn but I need to by asking questions.
Is Vortex the only brand that makes most of these rear sprockets? I cannot find anything in the 40/41 other than Vortex.
Jon
http://www.lockhartphillipsusa.com/LPUSA_Catalog.htm (http://www.lockhartphillipsusa.com/LPUSA_Catalog.htm)
Warning the links on this page are huge-mongus, be warned that if you have a slow connection you will be there for hours. the catalog links are like 70 mb. I am currently checkin out other options there are several bikes including other makes that have the exact same part numbers many of them for the 520 conversions, that will swap over. So I hope to compile a list of parts that other bikes will swap over, might have to start a new thread with this. but Lockhart has several different manufacturers for sprokets. AFAM is the only one withthe 18 tooth front though. for those who were wondering.
Quote from: O.C.D. on June 18, 2009, 08:41:46 AM
I have a 15T up front and want to go up in the rear. If I go to a 40, 41, or 42 in the rear, will I lose even more highway speed then? Will I gain that much more low end though? I see these guys with 15/45's and I am thinking that they must be pulling wheelies from idle, lol.
Going smaller in the front = going bigger in the rear, only not in even amounts. Adjusting the size of the front has a bigger effect.
Smaller front/bigger rear means your bike will feel stronger, but the top speed will be lower, and your RPMs will be higher when you're cruising at 70mph on the highway in 6th gear
Larger front/smaller rear means your bike will not feel as strong, but the top speed will be higher, but your RPMs will be lower and more comfortable cruising at 70mph on the highway in 6th gear.
The only non-certainty here is the change in top speed, which I'll try to explain, but it'll probably be long and confusing. Pure math says the higher your gear ratio, the faster your bike will be, so technically you could gear your bike like a hayabusa, and your back wheel should be able to reach the same speeds as a hayabusa. The only problem is that once you're on the highway and are fighting 100mph+ winds, your engine isn't just spinning a wheel, it's spinning a wheel and pushing you through that wind resistance. On the center stand you *may* be able to make that rear wheel spin at 200mph with the right gear ratio, but if you put your weight and the highway winds against that bike, your probably going to top out at 75mph because the bike just doesn't have the torque to pull through it, and even though the redline is over 10krpm, your engine is only strong enough to get to 7k rpm in that kind of gear. The point being that most bikes are geared tall enough that in 6th gear they won't even reach the redline, so if you put on a smaller gear, you get a little more power, and actually might gain a few mph on the top speed because your bike is now able to rev higher. As you keep making the gearing smaller it'll eventually just keep lowering the top speed at the highest rpm.
examples:
My triumph used to top out at 138mph stock, but couldn't even hit the redline because the wind was too much for the gear. I made the rear chainring 3 teeth bigger, and the engine was now able to pull the bike all the way up to the redline and would top out at 145mph, so in that case, a smaller gear=more pull AND a higher top speed :cheers:, with the only downside being that my RPMs were higher and less comfortable at cruising speeds.
Heather's GS on the other hand, used to have a top speed of somewhere around 115mph, but we went crazy with the gearing, and jumped from the 39t to a 47t, so while this bike also has more pull, the top speed dropped down to about 95, and we lost the comfortable cruising rpms.
Hope that helps, and I hope that was actually your question, before I took up that much of the discussion space.
Quote from: tt_four on June 18, 2009, 09:40:30 AM
Quote from: O.C.D. on June 18, 2009, 08:41:46 AM
I have a 15T up front and want to go up in the rear. If I go to a 40, 41, or 42 in the rear, will I lose even more highway speed then? Will I gain that much more low end though? I see these guys with 15/45's and I am thinking that they must be pulling wheelies from idle, lol.
Going smaller in the front = going bigger in the rear, only not in even amounts. Adjusting the size of the front has a bigger effect.
Smaller front/bigger rear means your bike will feel stronger, but the top speed will be lower, and your RPMs will be higher when you're cruising at 70mph on the highway in 6th gear
Larger front/smaller rear means your bike will not feel as strong, but the top speed will be higher, but your RPMs will be lower and more comfortable cruising at 70mph on the highway in 6th gear.
I am clear now, thank you. I think I had it already but that made a lot more sense.
So if I go to a 40 or 41 am I going to be killing all my highway speed then? I understand it will have more around town though and that might be what I am after.
Can a 40/04 41 be run with a 15 and stock chain? My chain issue would be the next issues. I did the calculator and think (?) I can get away with a stocker from what I have read.
Need to put out a disclaimer that I do not mean to thread jack as my questions don't necessarily pertain to the OP. But I have found this thread to be the right info so,....
The only non-certainty here is the change in top speed, which I'll try to explain, but it'll probably be long and confusing. Pure math says the higher your gear ratio, the faster your bike will be, so technically you could gear your bike like a hayabusa, and your back wheel should be able to reach the same speeds as a hayabusa. The only problem is that once you're on the highway and are fighting 100mph+ winds, your engine isn't just spinning a wheel, it's spinning a wheel and pushing you through that wind resistance. On the center stand you *may* be able to make that rear wheel spin at 200mph with the right gear ratio, but if you put your weight and the highway winds against that bike, your probably going to top out at 75mph because the bike just doesn't have the torque to pull through it, and even though the redline is over 10krpm, your engine is only strong enough to get to 7k rpm in that kind of gear. The point being that most bikes are geared tall enough that in 6th gear they won't even reach the redline, so if you put on a smaller gear, you get a little more power, and actually might gain a few mph on the top speed because your bike is now able to rev higher. As you keep making the gearing smaller it'll eventually just keep lowering the top speed at the highest rpm.
examples:
My triumph used to top out at 138mph stock, but couldn't even hit the redline because the wind was too much for the gear. I made the rear chainring 3 teeth bigger, and the engine was now able to pull the bike all the way up to the redline and would top out at 145mph, so in that case, a smaller gear=more pull AND a higher top speed :cheers:, with the only downside being that my RPMs were higher and less comfortable at cruising speeds.
Heather's GS on the other hand, used to have a top speed of somewhere around 115mph, but we went crazy with the gearing, and jumped from the 39t to a 47t, so while this bike also has more pull, the top speed dropped down to about 95, and we lost the comfortable cruising rpms.
Hope that helps, and I hope that was actually your question, before I took up that much of the discussion space.
You're not gonna lose much of anything if you go to 40 or 41. You'll definitely feel it the first couple times you get on your bike. After that you probably won't even really notice it much anymore since you'll get used to it.
Do you spend a lot of time on the highway? Your rpm's will probably go up .5k-1k rpm. If you want to see how the higher rpms will feel, go out on the highway at normal speed, and stay in 5th gear. I bet the first time you'll do it, you'll think you're going to kill your bike because of the change, but after that you'll just get used to it again.
Also keep in mind that sustained high revs from aggressively gearing down will wear out your valves and chain quicker. I've been running 18 tooth front and even at 25,000 miles all my valves were still in spec. My chain looks like it'll last a good long time, at least 50,000 miles. Well the bigger gear plus keeping it slightly loose may also contribute to my unusually slow chain wear. I lube the chain with gear oil mixed with bardhals no smoke to thicken it up some, no sprays and no harsh cleanings cause my belief is the solvents in sprays or harsh cleaners like kerosene dissolve some of the grease in the links and also dry up the o-rings.
qwerty, why are you trying to make your bike and its parts last? Gear it down and rev the piss out of it until it blows up! Explosions are cool! So are wheelie tickets! You can get three in a summer very easy and lose your license so you can walk to work all winter, excellent! :woohoo:
It's not as great a plan as you might thing. What I lost my license years ago, the process took so long that the 2 week suspension kicked in the middle of december, and I thought "awesome, who do they think they're hurting? it's the middle of december...." and then just to screw with me, we had a week of 60 degree weather, I was pissed :mad:
anyone ever considered the 13t front?
not me and once i start riding agin i will most likely go to a 15T in the front. The 14T with the 45T on the rear made the bike peppy as h3ll but after putting about 4k miles on this yr Ive had enough of the motor buzzing all the time. It did make the bike really fun for a while but I think a 15 is more for me and next season.
Quote from: TheDrunknmonky on October 05, 2009, 03:38:37 PM
anyone ever considered the 13t front?
As noted, the 14T is pretty much the limit if you don't want to deal with chain binding. The 14T is also plenty for reasonable riding. A 13T would kill the highway ride, and make it annoying as all hell.
I just got a 45 rear, which is basically the same as a 14 front. I chosse new rear, cause 1 my current sprocket is very old and worn, and 2 i figure that up 6 in the back is better than down 2 in the front cause if theres more gears then the weight on the chain is spread out more, and the stress on the sprocket is spread out more. i dont know i could be wrong. but i cant wait to get mine goin with the 45.
I just got a 15t up front and new chain, definatly rides better with a new greased up chain versus the old rusty chain. i do notice it feels a little quicker, nothing drastic, but then again i havent been able to REALLY test it out cuz its been raining quite a bit here the last few days, more later...
Nothing for nothing, had a 15 on my GSF when I bought it and rode it for the first time for about 100 miles and hated it! Wrapped out too fast felt like the bike was vibrating to death.
Have since went back to stock and loved it. I guess when you have no skill you make the excuse with torque and power until it is your downfall?
Quote from: JB848 on November 11, 2009, 09:09:16 PM
Nothing for nothing, had a 15 on my GSF when I bought it and rode it for the first time for about 100 miles and hated it! Wrapped out too fast felt like the bike was vibrating to death.
Have since went back to stock and loved it. I guess when you have no skill you make the excuse with torque and power until it is your downfall?
if more power = less skill then why dont you own a 250? because you obviously have more skill than every modified bike rider ever :confused:
Quote from: black and silver twin on November 11, 2009, 10:09:18 PM
Quote from: JB848 on November 11, 2009, 09:09:16 PM
Nothing for nothing, had a 15 on my GSF when I bought it and rode it for the first time for about 100 miles and hated it! Wrapped out too fast felt like the bike was vibrating to death.
Have since went back to stock and loved it. I guess when you have no skill you make the excuse with torque and power until it is your downfall?
if more power = less skill then why dont you own a 250? because you obviously have more skill than every modified bike rider ever :confused:
Idiot speaking I guess? If you think HP gives you skill or can get you out of a jam? Been riding for 20 years plus in most conjested areas, power never got me out or in, good sense, proper riding skills, and anticipating the situation never got me into it and saved me. 6th sense of what the cars were going to do around me I guess. But to me I call that commen sense?
Quote from: JB848 on November 11, 2009, 10:17:59 PM
Quote from: black and silver twin on November 11, 2009, 10:09:18 PM
Quote from: JB848 on November 11, 2009, 09:09:16 PM
Nothing for nothing, had a 15 on my GSF when I bought it and rode it for the first time for about 100 miles and hated it! Wrapped out too fast felt like the bike was vibrating to death.
Have since went back to stock and loved it. I guess when you have no skill you make the excuse with torque and power until it is your downfall?
if more power = less skill then why dont you own a 250? because you obviously have more skill than every modified bike rider ever :confused:
Idiot speaking I guess? If you think HP gives you skill or can get you out of a jam? Been riding for 20 years plus in most conjested areas, power never got me out or in, good sense, proper riding skills, and anticipating the situation never got me into it and saved me. 6th sense of what the cars were going to do around me I guess. But to me I call that commen sense?
you didnt answer the question, why dont you have a 250 then and prove everyone else on a larger bike wrong?
Quote from: joshr08 on October 05, 2009, 03:59:06 PM
not me and once i start riding agin i will most likely go to a 15T in the front. The 14T with the 45T on the rear made the bike peppy as h3ll but after putting about 4k miles on this yr Ive had enough of the motor buzzing all the time. It did make the bike really fun for a while but I think a 15 is more for me and next season.
Holy crap 14 front and 45 rear?! thats like a 51 in the rear with stock 16 front. thats what strictly stunters use man, you must been wheeliing like crazy on accident.
First of all I don't need to prove anything. I ride my lovely bike knowing everyone is going to cut me off, pull out in front of me. I have rode bigger bikes so what?
Situation: Speed over 55mph next to an on ramp of a major highway. I am in the the hammer lane. I see a semi coming on at low speed. I see the dumb Buddha Loves You next to me in the right lane. I know either she has to slow down or speed up. I keep my speed and watch her. I expect she is going to cut me off, I have the lane and the progress. Sure as shaZam! she cuts over in my lane! But being a smart rider, a safe rider, I saw this coming and thought in my mind what were my choices? So I kept my speed and sure as shaZam! she cut me off! Dumb c@%t! SO I hold on the horn so she knows I am there and "I" get the finger? SO I am thinking what world do we live in where some dumb person that is on the phone driving a car almost kills me and I get the finger?
always: Back off let them go
I am here to talk and see another day. I ride for my own enjoyment. I do not have a loud ass exhaust to let everyone else "HEAR" my enjoyment? But I guess that escapes you. Do something for some one else before you answer. I get the feeling you have no idea what that means.
I guess I am a Curmudgeon?
Quote from: JB848 on November 11, 2009, 10:49:44 PM
First of all I don't need to prove anything. I ride my lovely bike knowing everyone is going to cut me off, pull out in front of me. I have rode bigger bikes so what?
Situation: Speed over 55mph next to an on ramp of a major highway. I am in the the hammer lane. I see a semi coming on at low speed. I see the dumb Buddha Loves You next to me in the right lane. I know either she has to slow down or speed up. I keep my speed and watch her. I expect she is going to cut me off, I have the lane and the progress. Sure as oh my goodness she cuts over in my lane! But being a smart rider, a safe rider, I saw this coming and thought in my mind what were my choices? So I kept my speed and sure as oh my goodness she cut me off! Dumb c@%t! SO I hold on the horn so she knows I am there and "I" get the finger? SO I am thinking what world do we live in where some dumb person that is on the phone driving a car almost kills me and I get the finger?
always: Back off let them go
I am here to talk and see another day. I ride for my own enjoyment. I do not have a loud ass exhaust to let everyone else "HEAR" my enjoyment? But I guess that escapes you. Do something for some one else before you answer. I get the feeling you have no idea what that means.
I guess I am a Curmudgeon?
you still didnt answer the question of getting a 250
alright then ill answer the question. who cares. people need to quit fighting on here, its getting to where almost every other topic has a stupid arguement goin on in it, and not a helpful debate. who cares if he said more horespower equals less skill or whatever it was. it dont matter. sometimes people just say stupid things. and maybe he didnt say anything stupid you just interpreited it wrong. just drop it and talk about sprockets.
+1 Greg :thumb:
Arguing over a forum is like fighting a guy in a wheel chair, even if you win you still look like a jackass. Use the forum for what its made for which is to pass the knowledge and experience that we have gained over the years (or months) we have had with our bikes.
So I think I want to get a 14 tooth front sprocket. I generally ride around in a lower gear because I like the pep more so maybe it will be nice. I dont feel like reading through this though so anyone care to comment on a good place to buy one for an '07?
^^^ back to sprockets -->> \/ \/ \/
I got my 14T and 15T from www.Motorcyclel-superstore.com
I did not try the 14T yet, but I love 15T. It is a great balance balance between acceleration and highway usage.
Although you may want to get 14T if you ride in city only and 16T or even 17T if majority of your trips/commute is on a highway.
My trips consist of: commuting in the city on weekdays, and weekend rides on the highways; therefore 15T is a great option, very balanced like I wrote earlier.
good luck
Quote from: joker79507 on November 14, 2009, 05:06:16 AM
+1 Greg :thumb:
Arguing over a forum is like fighting a guy in a wheel chair, even if you win you still look like a jackass. Use the forum for what its made for which is to pass the knowledge and experience that we have gained over the years (or months) we have had with our bikes.
So I think I want to get a 14 tooth front sprocket. I generally ride around in a lower gear because I like the pep more so maybe it will be nice. I dont feel like reading through this though so anyone care to comment on a good place to buy one for an '07?
I got my sprocket from bikebandit. its a 45, but im sure they 14 for the front too. dont know, didnt look. but probably. shipped in 3 days.
Quote from: black and silver twin on November 11, 2009, 10:09:18 PM
Quote from: JB848 on November 11, 2009, 09:09:16 PM
Nothing for nothing, had a 15 on my GSF when I bought it and rode it for the first time for about 100 miles and hated it! Wrapped out too fast felt like the bike was vibrating to death.
Have since went back to stock and loved it. I guess when you have no skill you make the excuse with torque and power until it is your downfall?
if more power = less skill then why don't you own a 250? because you obviously have more skill than every modified bike rider ever :confused:
Greg we don't fight we discuss
As far as Black and Silver..your way of thinking kills more people then it saves is all I was saying. "If" you think that a quick burst of power will ever save you from a bind or death then rev your bike up as high as you can and run it into a brick wall idiot!!!! Moron!
What most responsible riders do, experienced or not!, is check them selves!
SKILLS = Experience + Knowledge + Good Judgement + Foresight and that is developed over time and age. I did some stupid arse things when I was young but I always had this thought in my head....."If you make a mistake you are dead" and luckily I didn't! But after riding for over 36 years I will say I have skills in the context that I was speaking of. You want to race? Sure! I will race with in the guidelines of a posted speed limit. If you want to go faster I will let you go past me. So ultimately you win are you happy?
this is gravedigging, but i DEFINATELY want to do this as my first real mod.
the biggest thing is finding a sprocket that'll fit my ride...
thanks for digging this up ray! great thread- good read, informative and funny haha
ordered a front JT 14t, but jumped back and added a 15t after reading this thread.
now onto chain research!