Ok, I have ~10 miles under my belt on my bike (first bike by the way).. and I have only driven it in a factory's parking lot... Where there seems to be a decent amount of sand/asfault grains..
I have heard stories of people taking corners that they couldn't hold (like one of my good friends).. heard stories of running over sand/asfault graqins on a turn, and sliding...
So this leaves me thiknin I should take all turns at 15mph :/ What is a good rule of thumb? If I don't see crap in the corner, take it fairly fast? Or just take corners fairly fast that I have already done and know are safe?
Hah, sorry for the dumb question.. but just wanted to get your opinions.
Well I just lowsided about an hour or so ago, so I believe I'm now an authority on cornering. :laugh: Naw, but really I have new wisdom to share.
If there is crap in the corner ALWAYS SLOW DOWN, I didn't see the crap in the corner (not paying attention :icon_rolleyes: ) and WHAM on my side. And lots of pain and stuff.
Basically consider how much grip the surface you are on provides. If it's dry clean pavement you can drag a peg it you are so inclined (Very fast, like OMG fast), if there's broken glass from an earlier accident (such was my case) Go around it, or if you must go over it, do so straight up, not with a fistful of throttle or brake.
Always always always always always always always always always always, PAY ATTENTION TO THE ROAD AND NOT YOUR GROCERY LIST!!!!!!!!!!
YOU ARE ON THE ROAD, YOUR MIND SHOULD BE TOO.
Anyways yeah, but only go as fast as you feel is ok for you.
Thanks for the advice.. sorry to hear the advice is coming from your misfortune :/
Natural road debris accumulates where vehicles do not go, such as near curbs and especially at intersections. It's not so much of a problem on roads unless unusual activity exists (such as construction or rural farm use). My last "pucker moment" was when I cut the apex at an intersection where, you guessed it, a pile of gravel had accumulated and I was leaned on. Front began to slide, I instinctively made a motocrosser move, and I recovered without further incident. (Luck was on my side and I learned another valuable lesson.)
In taking a turn, the best place to be is in the track of four-wheeled vehicles. This means ride in the Left Third or the Right Third of the lane. So when you enter a corner, going Outside - Inside - Outside should mean moving from one track to the other and back again.
Keep eyes open in the direction you're going, especially anything unusual in your immediate path. Try not to pivot on dirt, debris, tar snakes, puddles of anything, wet road paint or anything unusual. Pick a clean line.
I have a question: Have you taken the MSF Basic RiderCourse?
r3
welcome to the forum :) anyway, i m a noob like you and one time i was making a left turn at 10-15mph, but it's a wide street so i decided to hit the throttle 'cause speed = stability and it was a yellow light *tsk tsk tsk i guess i rolled it down too much so the back tire started to skid and i lost control. luckily i rolled it off a little and regained control then straightened the bike out. anyway, a few things i learned from msf course is look at where you are turning to and adjust entree speed so you can avoid braking on the turn.
Wrecent Wryder has a good point :thumb: -- you never know where or when the next road hazard will appear. That's why aggressive scanning of the road ahead is always necessary.
It's important to recognize what to do when you see the hazard. This is where training (and experience) kicks in. Always brake when the motorcycle is straight-up, take obstacles straight on, don't brake in a curve -- scrub off speed prior to entry.
The MSF Basic RiderCourse covers all of this. Practice these techniques every time you ride.
I agree it's not good to assume that a corner that's clean one time will be clean the next time. Conversely, one that's dirty one time can usually be assumed to be dirty all the time.
As mentioned, watch out for construction sites. Also try to avoid manhole covers. Stop bars, crosswalks and lane markings can also be slippery, even when dry. Always look ahead and don't try to corner at the limit unless you take a practice run through a corner, check it out, turn around and then go through it again with no traffic coming.
Redshift,
Care to describe this motorcrosser move you did?
To the rest of the forumites here,
Im sure the rest of the noob's here agree. We would like to say thank you for answering our beginner questions so completely. Even as a MSF vette its good to be reminded of everything I see here. You guys could just as easily blow us all off. But you don't and I just want to say thank you.
As a n00b, stick with the speed posted on the yellow caution sign for the turn. My MSF instructor taught as that trick. When you get comfortable, and espeically if there's good visibility, you should be able to take the turn a lot faster. But the speed on the caution sign is a good starting point/baseline.
Blind corners = BAD. I slow down alot and move to the interior of my lane to get the best vision and to be in position to apex the turn. I have had my share of gravel/sand patch scares and I don't care to repeat them again.
It's the curves that you can see through to the straight on the next side that are fun. A quick scan of the conditions in the turn just before entry, then Slow Look Press and ROOOOOOOLLLLL!!! :thumb:
if your an agressive driver the thing is to complete a perfect curve is to enter as a lamb and get out of it as a lion if you dont understand........ you got to get in gentally and get out on the trotle best way to do it
let say you feel the bike wants to go down in the middle of the curve just start regularly adding some trotle it will bring you more in balance with the center of gravity
Quote from: fodder650 on July 05, 2006, 10:40:02 AM
Redshift,
Care to describe this motorcrosser move you did?
It's the sticking of a foot on the side where the bike will be leaning in to. In my case I was making a right turn, going maybe 15 MPH, the front slid on a patch of sand at the apex of the intersection, my right foot went out forward (the Motorcrosser move), and to my thanks, the front regained grip. The heel of my boot hit the pavement briefly and I was able to right the bike before anything serious happened.
I will never approach an intersection that way again, knock on wood...
The most important aspect of cornering is vision. Look as far into the corner as you can. The slower you are going, the farther you'll have to turn your head because the radius of your turn will increase.
If you increase your speed, the radius of your turn will also increase at the same rate. If you look as far as you can through a turn, the bike will follow.
Try to set your speed at the beginning of the turn. Brake to the proper speed to enter the turn, let the bike settle. Lean it in with counter steering. Start applying the throttle to keep you on line to exit the corner where you are looking. Don't whack the throttle WFO. Don't shut the throttle if you can avoid it. Shutting the throttle in a turn will re-weight the front end, which can give rise to the possiblity of losing the front tire. So long as you are gently applying the throttle durning the turn, you've missed the chance to lose the front tire. Don't worry about speed or lean angle. They will adjust themselves if your vision, throttle, and line or correct.
Traction is proportionate to lean angle. No lean angle at all give you maximum acceleration and braking traction available. The more you lean the bike, the less traction is available for acceleration and braking. As the lean angle decreases, the traction available for braking and acceleration increases. Applying too much throttle or brake durning a lean will cause the limits of adhesion to go beyond the limits available to the edge of the tire.
Follow two rules:
1. Vision: look as far into the turn as possible. Keep your head up. It decreases the sensation of speed and keeps the bike heading in the right direction.
2. Throttle: apply the throttle as soon as you can and be steady and gentle.
Edit: Fixed. Switched up my words on accident once, and then on purpose twice.
Quote from: Jake D on July 05, 2006, 12:17:38 PM
The most important aspect of cornering is vision. Look as far into the corner as you can. The slower you are going, the farther you'll have to turn your head because the radius of your turn will increase.
If you increase your speed, the radius of your turn will also increase at the same rate.
What? The radius of the turn stays the same. Turns don't just change they're radius willy nilly, it's a physical property of the turn.
Your turn, not the road. The path of your bike. The faster you go, the larger the radius of your turn. Simple physics, bub. That is an F-A-C-T. Whether you are capable of understanding it or not. :laugh:
You can take the same path at s faster or slower speed. You may tend to take a larger radius path while riding faster, but it's by no stretch of the word an F-A-C-T.
The faster you go, the more you have to lean...
When you're leaned over very far, you have less chance of recovering from loss of traction...
An easy way to demonstrate it, what I'm saying, is to go ride in a circle in a parking lot, keeping your turn as tight as you can at all times. Pick up the speed gradually. The radius of your turn will increase as your speed increase. This is what happens after the apex of every turn, assuming you are adding speed, which you obviously should. If you can maintain a tight circle, the original circle, while adding speed, I'll give you my motorcycle as an offering to a god.
I think the disconnect is in the wording...
10° lean + 40 MPH
vs
10° lean + 70 MPH
The 70 MPH circle will be wider...
10° lean + 40 MPH
vs
30° lean + 70 MPH
(I'm just guessing on numbers) will be about the same...
<Yaaaawwwwwn. >
That's fine.
Just trying to help. :dunno_white:
Quote from: RVertigo on July 05, 2006, 02:13:27 PM
I think the disconnect is in the wording...
10° lean + 40 MPH
vs
10° lean + 70 MPH
The 70 MPH circle will be wider...
10° lean + 40 MPH
vs
30° lean + 70 MPH
(I'm just guessing on numbers) will be about the same...
Right, this is all good. But Jake's original post still doesn't make much sense, at least as far as turn radius go.
I wasn't trying to add lean angle into the equation. As you enter a corner, the lean angle increases. As you exit, it decreases. As you exit, speed increases as lean angle decreases (with proper throttle application). As speed increases the radius of the turn you just made (not the road) will increase, taking you to the outside of the turn until evetually, you're not turning at all but rather going straight. But having said that, even with a constant lean angle, as you pointed out, an increase in speed will increase the radius of your turn. So you did help. Thanks.
Quote from: aaronstj on July 05, 2006, 02:33:33 PM
Quote from: RVertigo on July 05, 2006, 02:13:27 PM
I think the disconnect is in the wording...
10° lean + 40 MPH
vs
10° lean + 70 MPH
The 70 MPH circle will be wider...
10° lean + 40 MPH
vs
30° lean + 70 MPH
(I'm just guessing on numbers) will be about the same...
Right, this is all good. But Jake's original post still doesn't make much sense, at least as far as turn radius go.
Here is what you may not be understanding: with a constant lean angle, an increse in speed will increase the radius of your turn.
No, I understand that perfectly. But this advice:
QuoteThe most important aspect of cornering is vision. Look as far into the corner as you can. The slower you are going, the farther you'll have to turn your head because the radius of your turn will increase.
If you increase your speed, the radius of your turn will also increase at the same rate. If you look as far as you can through a turn, the bike will follow.
Doesn't make sense to me. Regardless of how fast you are going, and how much you lean to make the turn, you should be taking about the same path at any speed, with the same radius, and looking all the way through the turn the same way.
<reaches over and turns off compu
Quote from: Jake D on July 05, 2006, 03:04:03 PM
<reaches over and turns off compu
Okay, I'm reviving this because I found a quote from a riding instructor that explains this much better than I was able to.
Andy Morrison is a 53 year old riding instructor with 37 years of experience. He teaches at the Rapid Skills riding school in bloody England. It sounds even better if you read it with a fake accent.
He wrote:
Steering with the Trottle:
"It's not really directly to do with the trottle," says Andy Morrison. "Look at modern-bikes - they're bred for acceleration, they're really, really good at it. Say you're riding at 50 mph - you add 30 mph to that very quickly. It's the change of speed that changes your line. If you double your speed, you quadruple your braking distance because you've quadrupled the amount of energy in the bike. Cornering is the same. At full lean at 30 mph you'll get a certain turning circle. Double that and you'll get a circle four times bigger, and because the bike's so quick at changing speed, you can go from one to the other in just a few moments."
I actually went out and did this the other day. I started off doing really slow speed u-turns with the bike leaned way the heck over and counter balanced. Then I kept it at the same lean angle and started adding speed. I slid my weight by over the bike and kept it leaned all the way over eventually and by time I was going 30 mph I was doing a huge cirle. I couldn't turn it tighter if I tried. You should try this. It is a really good drill. You learn a lot about lean angle and really can get a feel for what the front tire is doing.
I'll be scrapping pegs in to time at all. Hope that is more clear.
To all peg scrapers. (Like me.)
Just remember road rash hurts at first, but when the Alcohol goes on to sterilize it, that's what realllllllllyyy hurts. (The kind of hurt where you curse out the person cleaning your wound.)
I'm cleaning it right now..... Let me tell you, it sucks.
The wheels are supposed to stay on the road when you scrape your pegs.
I think he's saying watch the f*** out if you're scraping hard parts, or else you might be scraping YOUR parts.
Exactly, and there's no retailer I know of that has replacements for those, oh and BTW, my road rash says....
:icon_razz: :icon_razz: :icon_razz: :icon_razz: :icon_razz: :icon_razz: :icon_razz: :icon_razz: :icon_razz: :icon_razz: :icon_razz: :icon_razz: :icon_razz:
And then goes back to making me hate being alive.