Does anyone know of any turbos that can fit a 2006 GS500F? Im not interested in getting a busa or a GSXR1000. I want a sleeper you know make something into something no one saw coming. :icon_twisted:
no aftermarket ones you'll have to build it all yourself but if you do a search on turbo's you'll come across the two that have already been done you'll get to see what they did and then you'll go buy a GSXR1000 instead personaly I would think supercharging would be easier but room would be a problem I think and if supercharging is the go then NOS to go with that then who needs turbos ;) :thumb: :cheers:
good first post, youy should have gotten a biger bike.
but in any case here is the current project i am working on.
the sreen name is the same
http://www.sportbikes.ws/showthread.php?t=79643
oh God. BOHICA.
Welcome to the forum. Run a search for "Turbo" you'll find all the info you want. In fact, someone was selling their already turbo'd gs.. bet you could find it, and pick it up cheap. Hell, one guy here managed to fuel inject a GS... combine that with a turbo, and you're set! Good luck, and kepe us posted.
thanks for the adviced and the welcoming. I thought i would get laughed at but i guess you understand what my mission is.
if you get any news let me know ive been looking for them as well
Quote from: rangerbrown on July 09, 2006, 09:47:24 PM
good first post, youy should have gotten a biger bike.
but in any case here is the current project i am working on.
the sreen name is the same
http://www.sportbikes.ws/showthread.php?t=79643
Good read,man. It seems like you will have plenty of people to go to once you start your project. O0
So if u wanna put a turbo on it why are you selling it???
just found out, i hate to do it but my family comes first
Hey Ranger Brown, I'm going to head down to the library tomorrow and read up as much as I can on turbos and such, I'm going to try to help you.
I've done a few supercharger projects in my time and I think a lot of what i know will be helpful. (At age 12 I built an electrically [driven off battery] supercharged minibike with a standard 3.5hp briggs&stratton It became much less slow.)
I'm also pretty tight with the guys at the local superbike shop, and they have a couple turbo'd gixxers and such around... (And a N/A Gix Thou with 180 AT THE REAR WHEEL OMG)
They do carb'd bikes too.
Anyways man, hit me back!
Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on July 09, 2006, 09:52:09 PM
oh God. BOHICA.
your gonna have to remind me what BOHICA stands for
couldnt u just boar out the intakes and outtakes to get more power or flog the heads off a bike that has 8 valves insted of 4 to get that power also wouldnt you engine just get way to hot after abit
you mean like this hot
(http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/misc/hot_turbo2_ezr.jpg)
If you haven't already, I suggest you read this (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0837601606/103-0794451-3606244?v=glance&n=283155) book.
Anyway, if I were to turbo a GS500 I would use a Garrett GT12 (http://www.atpturbo.com/root/maps/gt12.htm) or GT15 (http://www.atpturbo.com/root/maps/gt15.htm) Turbo. The GT12 will max out much over 100hp, while the GT15 should be able to get you up to the 200hp mark. The question then becomes, how much power can you really make out of the GS before things start to break? If it were me, I'd probably end up getting the GT15, just because it gives me more room to play with.
Next, you want to look into fuel injecting. It seems to me that everyone who tried turbo'ing a GS had issues with to using the carbs. EFI makes fueling really really simple, so don't be afraid of its high-techness. Take a look here (http://www.megasquirt.info) for more info on that. When I was rejetting the carbs the other day, I thought it would be pretty easy to convert the carbs to throttle bodies by removing the whole needle valve assembly and replacing it with a fuel injector.
Anyway, good luck!
somebody need to do this and tell every one else exactly how they did it
I think that's what Ranger brown is doing.
Lima, thanx for input. Yeah i've played and carbs + turbo = headache.
I knew about the mega squirt and all that I just didn't make the connection from my automotive days, thanx for making it for me. I feel dumb :laugh:
That sounds like the best way Lima. I'll take a look and start pushing that pencil across the paper.
BOHICA = Bend Over, Here It Comes Again
lima, i cant thank you enough for the links you have sent me,
i dont want to make a ass load of power, i just want 10lbs max to pick up the mid-top end
the most i want to make is 80-90 that for the gs would be more than enough. i think any way.
the big big problem is heat. bottom line. i will me up grading it with a cars oil cooler with fan, headers and turbine section of the turbo will be one or both depending on the $$$$ situation
headers ciramic coated to turbo or/and header wrap on headers and turbo.
mult gauges
oil temp
fuel press
boost press
A/F mix
CYL temp
just for starters. i want to do this now, but i am going to wait. i dont have the tools that will do it right,
and i am rideing the bike all but evey day. come winter this thing will be on the phorch for a teardown.
plan is to do a wild port/pollish and larger intake valves
look into axu oil res/cooling
try to see if i can get mega sq to work for me, i have 13lbs and 19lb injectors (ford) they should be pleanty for this. the 19's any way
thanks again, now the gt12 sells for about 500$ and the tight ass that i am, is there any were that my have it cheaper? ebay (non right now but they wil come)
better yet, what if any, car did they come on.
It's no problem, I have a whole slew of great websites for turbo and EFI info, turbocharging and EFI is my 'other' hobby :laugh:
ask me anything about them and I can probably give you a good website.
The GT12 is a specialty turbo, I don't think I've ever seen them on eBay, and I also don't think there are any cars out there with a GT series turbo from the factory. (maybe there are, but probably not a common car you'd easily find in the junk yard and probably not a GT12) Honestly though, $500 for a new brand name turbo is pretty cheap. Stay away from the non-brand name turbos on eBay that sell for <$300 and claim to have Garrett parts and what not, because trust me, they are crap, and you'll only wind up buying a better turbo down the road.
Another option would be to get a small T3 turbo. They are very common in production cars and are a good size for this application. You can probably get a rebuilt one for less than $400, or a good used one for less than $200. A T3 wouldn't be as ideal as a GT turbo, but for the cost it's a fine option.
I'll have to sit down and crunch some numbers as I'm bored at work and figure out which turbo would really be best.
Turbo on the GS is totally not worth it. Even if you do get a 2x upgrade in horspower/torque, that still puts you right below the spec of a race-ready 600cc bike like an R6 which is lighter, handles better, and has appropriately sized tires and brakes for those speeds.
yeah it is worth it... you'll have a turbo'd GS, which would be farking awesome, not to mention it would be a cool project
shaZam! id buy a kit if someone made it
Oh god another R6/GSX/CBR boy...........
Serenity now, Serenity now........................
Anyways, RangerBrown my head hurts, but I'm going to the library, I'll start running more numbers and asking my local shop.
Oh BTW it's like 500 to 1000 on a turbo plus whatever ranger brown does not fabricate himself. (I think he'll be fabbing the whole thing)
So tell me, where can I procure a 600cc 02 or newer sportbike in great condition for 500 - 1000 dollars?
The defense rests its' case.
lets see...
turbo - $500
turbo flange - $30
misc intake/exhaust piping - $50
misc intake couplers - $20
oil fittings/lines - $80 (yeah not cheap)
Megasquirt - $130
misc wire/connectors - $20
used side mount intercooler - $20
cheapie blow off valve - $40
cheapie adjustable fuel pressure regulator - $30
cheapie manual boost controler - $10
used fuel pump - $20
fuel fittings/lines - $30
2x fuel injectors - free (he already has them)
misc nuts/bolts/etc - $20
used boost/EGT/oil temp/fuel presure gauges - $150
dyno time - $100 (just a guess, never took a bike to a dyno before, but in any case it's cheaper and better than buying your own wide band O2 sensor and tuning it yourself)
TOTAL - ~$1250 with moderate eBaying/junk yarding and doing your own fabrication/welding... with a little more leg work you could probably get it done cheaper
it does start to nickel and dime you to death, trust me on that one, but it's so worth it to be able to say 'yeah I made that'... in any case, if he shops the parts he can keep it to about a grand, far cheaper than a SS would cost... not to mention the PIMP FACTOR and how freaking awesome it would sound
Id freakin love to hear a GS500FT (T's for turbo)
BRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
PSSssssssssssssssssssssssss
BRAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnn
PSSSsssssssssssssssssssssss
That preassure blow off valve sounds so sexy.
ah crap.... i gotta change my pants now
yea this is what i have come up with as well.
Quote from: LimaXray on July 10, 2006, 05:40:59 PM
lets see...
turbo - $500
turbo flange - $30
misc intake/exhaust piping - $50
misc intake couplers - $20
oil fittings/lines - $80 (yeah not cheap)
Megasquirt - $130
misc wire/connectors - $20
used side mount intercooler - $20
cheapie blow off valve - $40
cheapie adjustable fuel pressure regulator - $30
cheapie manual boost controler - $10
used fuel pump - $20
fuel fittings/lines - $30
2x fuel injectors - free (he already has them)
misc nuts/bolts/etc - $20
used boost/EGT/oil temp/fuel presure gauges - $150
dyno time - $100 (just a guess, never took a bike to a dyno before, but in any case it's cheaper and better than buying your own wide band O2 sensor and tuning it yourself)
TOTAL - ~$1250 with moderate eBaying/junk yarding and doing your own fabrication/welding... with a little more leg work you could probably get it done cheaper
it does start to nickel and dime you to death, trust me on that one, but it's so worth it to be able to say 'yeah I made that'... in any case, if he shops the parts he can keep it to about a grand, far cheaper than a SS would cost... not to mention the PIMP FACTOR and how freaking awesome it would sound
well, i have to tell you, i use to own a CBR f3 and it was far less flickable than the gs, and way to damn long. sure it was a nice bike but, it wasnt all that. every one is riding a damn 600. plus this winter is going to be a long one.
Quote from: TarzanBoy on July 10, 2006, 08:24:24 AM
Turbo on the GS is totally not worth it. Even if you do get a 2x upgrade in horspower/torque, that still puts you right below the spec of a race-ready 600cc bike like an R6 which is lighter, handles better, and has appropriately sized tires and brakes for those speeds.
well, when i get started. (first big step is buying the turbo) i will make a complete walk/guide through on the entire project. any/every one will be welcome to use it.
Quote from: nick_villan on July 10, 2006, 09:15:28 AM
shaZam! id buy a kit if someone made it
Nice ideas.....but consider the physics of what you are proposing to do, the GS5 engine was never designed to be turbocharged and the stressed parts such as the crank, con-rods and bearings simply wont be able to accomodate an 100% increase in power. You might be ok for the occasional short burst but before long you will be pushing the bike home and at the same time carrying bits of engine casing, piston, con-rod and bottom-end in a bucket!
Ever heard of a Honda CX500? it was a water cooled v-twin, but across the frame as opposed to tandem It was radical when it came out in the late 70`s. Mid eighties saw a a 650 turbo version (at least here in the UK), a guy I know fitted the turbo and associated parts to the non-turbo 500 engine after a full rebuild. After he had got it running smooth it went like sh** off a shovel.......for about 4hours, then it snapped the crank in half!!. We still laugh at him now. OK I know peple have successfully turbo`d GS5`s but I dont know of anyone who has made 80hp with reliabilty.
there were two turbo gs that were makeing over/near 100hp to the ground here
I want to turbocharge my GS500 as well!
But i will try to convert it first to EFI...
Btw, does anyone know if its possible to use a variable ignition point on the GS?
thx
And were these bikes reliable and used daily without major modifications to the moving parts?? or just bikes intended to showcase an individuals Engineering ability?Were they drag- bikes that run for about 10-15secs before a major rebuild?? Dont just say they exsist, prove to me that someone has got 100hp from a standard GS5 bottom-end without compromising its overall reliabilty because I didnt see any crank mods in the `Turbo` shopping lists. :dunno_white:
do a search, here there all there, one guy did it for a class project, the the other was runing 27+ psi and high end fuel for raceing. (road track) the bottom end held for three tracks then would need to be replaced
3 tracks? How many miles is that? Not quite the normal 6000 mile service interval is it? Bottom end reliabilty compromised........I rest my case :laugh:
whats your point man?
i mean a bike is a toy not a main mod of transportation. and if it is. then i feel sorry for you.
now, i am not sure what point your tyying to make but forced induction is proven to be reliable/safe and inprove gas milage. if done properly
My point as stated earlier is that you cant get 80+ hp out of a standard GS5 bottom end without compromising its reliabilty. If it was possible all the 80hp+ bikes out there would have cranks the size of the GS5 and we all know they dont. You confirmed my suggestion that reliabilty will be compromised when you stated that someone raced a modified one over the distance of 3 race tracks and then a replacement bottom end was required. Yet then you go on to say that forced induction is safe/reliable if done properly. I am confused and I think you are too. My idea of reliabilty is about 20.000miles, not the combined distance of 3 race tracks.
what is that you think that it cant?
read what i said again, he was pushing over 23 lbs of boost, hell a built engine would laston that long in a race,
what i mean by done right is dont over boost, dont detonate (no pinging) run lean ect...
Quote from: sledge on July 10, 2006, 07:02:42 PM
And were these bikes reliable and used daily without major modifications to the moving parts?? or just bikes intended to showcase an individuals Engineering ability?Were they drag- bikes that run for about 10-15secs before a major rebuild?? Dont just say they exsist, prove to me that someone has got 100hp from a standard GS5 bottom-end without compromising its overall reliabilty because I didnt see any crank mods in the `Turbo` shopping lists. :dunno_white:
The one I saw had 76HP and 50 some odd lb-ft of torque. He did it as an engineering project for school.
How many times do I have to say it?? The bottom-end will not cope with vast increases in power and torque without some detrimental effect. It is the most stressed part of the engine as it converts the linear motion of the pistons and rods into rotary motion. It was simply not designed to accomodate the extra forces involved when turbocharged, it was designed for the 40 or so hp a standard bike makes plus a small margin. By fitting and running a turbo you will be increasing the loading on the bottom-end and therefore reducing its reliability and lifespan. Read through my comments again and point out to me where I said fitting a turbo CANT be done....you wont because I havent said it. Fitting and setting up a turbo wouldnt be difficult for someone who knows what they are doing. I said fitting a turbo will compromise the long term reliabilty of a standard bottom-end, a fact backed up by yourself when you mentioned the race-tracks. Although you could argue the crank failed for other reasons. The crank should at the very least be Tuftriden or Nitriden (do a search for an explaination) in a attempt to increase its strenghth.
Sledge......
Please leave us be, RangerBrown has accepted the risks of which you speak, and this little project is his....
NOT YOURS
If these risks are unacceptable to you that's fine, but really we have no need to justify our actions. Thank you for pointing out that you find these risks unacceptable, but Ranger Brown does. Hence further conversation on that topic is nothing but inane chatter, ammounting to nothing.
I agree the crank is not the sturdiest, but it has been proven in a NA race bike using oversized pistons (actually that bike broke them, but that's my point. It had no crank failures until there were internal modifications) I think it will be suitable, if not used engines can be had for 300 dollars.
Since however it is not my job to address your concerns I leave only the explanation that, Ranger Brown wants to do it, so he's going to. His bike, his risk, his right.
Ranger Brown, anyways now that I'm done chastising another naysayer I wanted to hit you with some tidbits from my readings.
At 10 psi you're looking at the air temperature being raised by over 100 degress F (that is not a typo) Nearly necessitating am intercooler.
You probably already know that you'll have to fab a box over the whole carb assembly.
Going fuelie might be a good idea, but painful. Mega Squirt would be a good choice methinks.
Carbs could be kept, but life would become painful.
I mapped the points you gave me (4.5k 9k and redline) And with 10 psi (at 9 k) you're looking at around 65 hp.
This is a rather large RPM spectrum we're looking for power over. Might want to narrow it to a 4.5k to 9k or 7k to 11k. Would make stuffing this all inside a compressor map a HELL of a lot easier.
You are going to need a fuel pump. Also we could just ram the injectors inside of the carb bodies, that would be an inelegant way of doing it, but effective.
There's a lot of other stuff I read, but my brain hurts ATM so that's all I can squeeze out right now.
But that temp rise in the intake charge concerns me.
I would definately use an intercooler, a small side mount intercooler from a factor turbo'd car would be perfect... perhaps you should also look into squeezing an alcohol injection system in there... or maybe run the thing on ethanol, you'll get worse gas mileage but it will burn cooler and you'll never have to worry about detonation with its 110+ octane.
Circles?
Fair comment, but appreciate I just cannot get my head round the fact someone will spend all that time, money and effort to carry out a mod` like this knowing full well the engine is likely to dump its guts as a result. Its just bad Engineering and goes against everything I have ever learned and the experience gained. I never said it was impossible to fit and run with a turbo but its a very involved modification and the way it stands now, the plan has more holes in it than a welders t-shirt! But as you correctly say it is someone elses project so lets stand back, let him get on with it and see how far off the ground it actually gets.
Enough Said.
Well lets see how he handles the heat situation. Thats the biggest problem. I mean after all air cooled turbos aren't that rare are they? Its just a matter of not going overboard on the pressure.
And yes since its someone else's project. I think a lot of us are going to just sit back and watch what happens
I want to laugh after you buy a car turbo......
let me know when
Quote from: rangerbrown on July 10, 2006, 07:16:48 PM
i mean a bike is a toy not a main mod of transportation. and if it is. then i feel sorry for you.
:dunno_white:
I don't feel sorry for me.
I've logged 3kmi on my GS this summer and less than 1kmi on my car, and I feel great about it.
Quote from: CirclesCenter on July 11, 2006, 01:27:43 AM
...
I mapped the points you gave me (4.5k 9k and redline) And with 10 psi (at 9 k) you're looking at around 65 hp.
This is a rather large RPM spectrum we're looking for power over. Might want to narrow it to a 4.5k to 9k or 7k to 11k. Would make stuffing this all inside a compressor map a HELL of a lot easier.
If you are going to run the bike over 10.5 K You will also have to do some head work. I think that this might already be in the plan but not sure.
Quote from: rangerbrown on July 10, 2006, 07:16:48 PM
i mean a bike is a toy not a main mod of transportation. and if it is. then i feel sorry for you.
The GS is my main mode of transportation. I commute back and forth to work, school, run errands on it, visit my girlfriend 90 miles away (or 300 miles in the school year, both one way) on it. I do everything on my GS.
me 2, i sold my car for my gs. and u shouldt feal sorry, its the best desicion ive ever done
Ok I am gonna weigh in on this subject. Dependability first, If my GS were my only mode of transpotation (and I rode in Oklahoma year round from 89 to 96) then by all means I would say please dont spend your money on a turbo project. But if you have other wheels then I say go for it. I found this thread because I am planning on trying a similiiar project in a few years when I have a second bike that way even if I blow my GS up I can still ride till I get a new motor. Now I as far as dependable mileage from a bike I have no idea what the GS will get for me but my 81 wing went 195,000 miles for me in 8 years time and I bought it with 40,000 on it already. My first ever Suzuki a 79 GS750 had 92,000 miles before I broke a cam chain and had to rebuild the upper end. Sledge if you get only 20K from a bike you must ride em harder than they were meant to be pushed and not PM like should be done.And a final note Ranger has a sound idea and does not appear to be planning on going to excess I bet he will get great longevity from his turbo motor. Lets all see how it goes. :thumb:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=28403.0
195k out of a Goldwing dont surprise me at all, its a touring bike. It has a large capacity, heavy, slow revving and understressed engine designed to chug along all day every day at more or less the same engine speed and rack up huge mileages because this is what touring bikes are expected to do. It simply cant be compared to the GS5 engine, same with the GS750 engine which is another old, heavy and over-engineered design. I cant imagine performance as being a high priority in the design brief when the Honda Engineers all sat down to start sketching out that old flat-four. If you rode your `wing like you would.... say an R1 would you expect to get 195K out of it without major engine work? Lets be realistic, it simply wouldnt happen. Bike engines are not all the same, they are designed for a role thats dependent on which niche of the market the bike will be sold in, be it ecconomy, performance, longevity competition etc.
The figure of 20k I mentioned is not what I expect the maximum lifespan to be for a GS5 engine to be, rather the figure at which I expect engine wear to begin to make itself felt and become a concern. Bearings, journals, camshaft and followers, valve guides pistons and bores, cam-chain etc etc etc etc will all have started to show signs of wear at this mileage and may well be outside the Makers specified tolerances, even with correct maintainence and regular oil changes. You state "Reliabilty first" then go on to say "I bet the turbo motor has great longevity" Thats a contradiction in terms. Even the "Turbo Experts" in the other forum have stated he must first rebuild the engine, yet he has chosen not to and continues to be selective with regard to which advice he chooses to accept or dissmiss. Whats the point in asking someone for advice if you are then going to argue with that someones opinion. If the project is done correctly, and in my view thats with reliabilty in mind, it will be a huge achievement for which he deserves serious credit..............but if he carries in assuming the crank and bottom-end can safely and reliably handle a huge increase in HP without being uprated.. ......ultimately it will all end in tears.
Rode the wing like I stole it!!! trips to new orleans from tulsa that only took 8 hours and ground down 2 sets of pipes cornering. Hardly typical tour riding that bike rarely saw the underside of 90mph. Engineers are pretty smart and have to know some body is gonna figure out how to get the most out of a motor. A 9.0:1 compression ratio is the ideal starting place for a turbo motor, I shudder to think of the comp ratios on a modern superbike if it were to be turboed. Hmmmm 12.5:1 mount a highpressure injector pump and run diesel with a turbo. Might have to try it!!!
i would have to say, after the 14,000 miles i have on my gs. it has very little wear on it.
cam shafts have no wear (or little) timing chain/gears show no signs of any wear.
little to no oil has ever been used, compression still as high as when i got it with 1700 miles
i would liek to perform a leak down test to see what shape the rings are trully in.
in my honest opinion, the gs is more than capable off 100k befor some type of tear down rebuild.
this being said, sure like i said before.
keep the idea simple, dont over do it in hopes for big power, and dont go blasing down the hwy every day at 8-10k and think that a turbo gs would ever last.
like i said, the most if any thing, i would like to see 80hp and 40-50 tq still with in resonable ranges as the gs makes 35tq and 50 hp if tuned right.
big things to get out of the way,
HEAT,
timing
fuel
fuel delivery
oil pressure and temp (again much larger cooler after the turbo, and then a possable reserve tank)
mixture of the fuel (aircraft engines that are N/A and forced induction are runing way rich, for cooling, once off the ground they can be trimed. looking into this as a possable leway)
the rest is easy
if going carb build box and tune as needed (although i know this will be a major pain in the ass)
turbo mounting
exhust routing
intake routing
varable timing
and much more
Quote from: rangerbrown on July 11, 2006, 05:42:38 PM
varable timing
and much more
another plus of using MegaSquirt... with the MSnS-E code (http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/) you can use it to decode the stock crank wheel on the GS, using the stock VR sensor (pulse generator), and drive the stock ignition coils, thus giving you total ignition timing control. There are also plenty of other features availible that might be useful for this application
But I think you'd get tired of 80 hp before too long. Then you'd want more.
I just can't imagine anyone ever wanting to buy your GS from you with a turbo on it. Would you buy a used bike that somebody turboed?
I just can't believe that there isn't a production bike that would suit your needs for flick-ability and more power.
Oh, wait. There are tons of them. Nevermind.
Its the fun factor of doing it and then being able to show it off and I did that
Since everyone else is always honest here, I will be too.
This is stupid, if you ask me. Especially on a bike as nice as Rangerbrown's. That is my opinion and nobody gives a rat's ass, but I never state my opinion, so I thought I would. You could easily buy a bike more flickable and with more power than a GS500 with a turbo. It would be different if his bike was a cobbed out 89 model. I still don't think your friends will think it is cool, even if you pull it off, which you won't.
yo sorry im with jake d, if you want more power than upgrade, if not learn to be happy with what ya have and can do with out spending a rediculous amount of $$$
back in 2001 i had some extra $ sitting around
I was going to build a big monster engine
I had a GR650 engine
I had a GS400 8 VALVE engine
I had FJ1200 pistons
I had race cams
and after thinking about it for a while....I bought a 1992 honda RS-125 GP race bike
for the same amount of money.....
I have since gotten rid of all the GS engine goodies
well except for the cute little turbo sitting on the shelf
might use it
might just look at it
might turbo a Z-50 for sh!ts and grins
I have just placed a reminder in Outlook for 3months time....It says "Post question in GStwin forum, ask Rangerbrown how far he has got with the Turbo project"
sigh... some people just don't understand... it's not about the power, it's about the challenge of making that power, it's about using your BRAIN and your own two HANDS to solve a problem that in all reality does not really need to be solved
back in the day, before sports cars and sports bikes were as common as they are today, you had to use your own skill and talent to modify what was out there to perform the way you wanted it... there wasn't an 'aftermarket' like we have today, you had to design and fabricate your own parts... you couldn't call up jardine and order your nice new exhaust system, you had to layout, cut, and weld your own from scratch... this forced people to be CREATIVE and allowed them to take PRIDE in THEIR work... today that is dying, people are losing their creativity because of things like the mindset of 'they already make one that does that, why not just go and buy it'
you see, some of us get just as much satisfaction from CREATING as we do using... personally, I would get just as much, if not more, satisfaction from turboing a GS as I would actually riding it... not to mention the amount of pride and knowledge gained from such a project
people have turbo'd the gs before, MANY people have fuel injected carb'd motorcycles and cars before, so just because you may not know how or don't have the desire to pull this off, doesn't mean he can't
I guess those of you who would rather sit back and let others create your bikes will just never understand what this is all about, and that is just fine, this just isn't your thing.
oh, and sorry ranger for further digging you into a hole of turbo commitment :laugh:
Sledge, make it 6 months
he said he would do it this winter
guys, i know what your saying. but here is another factor, to factor in but just for shaZam! and giggles what bike right off the show room floor right now do you think would be better. that cost less than lets say 9k. after your responce i will pose my next question.
Quote from: Jake D on July 12, 2006, 11:39:32 AM
Since everyone else is always honest here, I will be too.
This is stupid, if you ask me. Especially on a bike as nice as Rangerbrown's. That is my opinion and nobody gives a rat's ass, but I never state my opinion, so I thought I would. You could easily buy a bike more flickable and with more power than a GS500 with a turbo. It would be different if his bike was a cobbed out 89 model. I still don't think your friends will think it is cool, even if you pull it off, which you won't.
Quote from: nick_villan on July 12, 2006, 03:56:19 PM
yo sorry im with jake d, if you want more power than upgrade, if not learn to be happy with what ya have and can do with out spending a rediculous amount of $$$
http://powersports.honda.com/motorcycles/sport/model.asp?ModelName=919&ModelYear=2005&ModelId=CB900F5&bhcp=1
looks like 8399$
or something similar from yamaha
give me a few mins and i will be right back with you
Just updated Outlook.......13 Jan 07.
personally I would never spend(piss) that much on a bike
i'm more 2-3k max
ok that bike under the same insureer that i have now,
is 2500$ very 12 months fully covered plus payments
were as my gs is only 230 a year fully coverd and is payed off.
so that is the big factor here.
until you tell them it is turbocharged....or you get in an accident and the adjuster sees the turbo
actually they will only pay out on the base bike normally and at present ACV
so turbo away
word of advice
to keep people from beating you down.....don't tell, until you are finished
PM one or two who have the knowledge..but keep it quiet
I'm installing a 87 chevy sprint(SUZUKI) turbo 3 cylinder into a 1959 sprite.....but i don't post it on the sprite site....they would tell me i'm a friggin moron
yes, i have the FWD engine mounted to a RWD tranny.....have to make a new LOG manifold to relocate the turbo
ken is that a bug-eye or no?i love austins
Yeah, ditto that. I was installing a '98 Specialized turbo on my '85 Schwinn. Schwinn guys thought i was nuts., but hey, I got all the way up to 0.25 HP!
Yes Lee, it is ...was.... a rusted out turd bugeye with a 1275
the ONLY good thing were the spring perches and rear qtrs
it was a parts car i saved for bastardization purposes....why start with a nice one and destroy it....hint hint....ranger
yea i was trying to be hush hush about it, but the latest rush of turbo questions brought it to light much sooner than i wanted. like i said, it will be a while.
I got a cute turbo....bout the size of my fist....itty bitty
Quote from: rangerbrown on July 10, 2006, 07:16:48 PM
i mean a bike is a toy not a main mod of transportation. and if it is. then i feel sorry for you.
I am pitied :cry:
But I like my bike. It's a useful toy, and a heck of a lot better in heavy traffic than all the cages that crawl around rush hour.
haven't posted on here in quite some time... but a turbo post is always a good way to bring me out of the woodworks...
when discussing the stress on the bottom end components caused by adding a turbo motor, you have to examine how the force is applied, when maximum stress occurs, and the rev range that it occurs at.
On a piston driven motor, the rods and crank are basically subject to two main loads... the inertial load, and the power load. Inertial load is basically a result of the acceleration of the piston towards the center of stroke, and is expontetially proportional to the rpm. The power load is a result of combustion in the chamber. Now during the power stroke in the motor, the power load from the combustion cylce is actually partially offset by the inertial load... as a result, the peak load applied to the bottom end components occurs during the exhaust stroke. Fatigue failure in the bottom end components is a result of tensile load on the components, which occurs during this exhaust stroke, when the inertial load is unopposed. Because the inertial loads are the most damaging, and exponentially increase with the rpms, a high reving motor, like the gs motor, will be designed to handle much higher inertial loads.
Long story short, reving the motor high puts alot more stress on components then any turbo will. A turbo does significantly increase loads on the crank and such, but it occurs at points where it's still way less than the peak loads, and damaging loads, occured by reving high. The area under the curve increases a lot, but the peak value remains pretty much the same.
What causes damage to a turbo motor is NOT the increased load caused by the increase in power. It's detonation. Proper intercooling, along with reasonable timing curves, proper fueling, and good heat management, should allow for a mild level of boost to be ran perfectly safe.
Quote from: saxman on July 15, 2006, 01:09:12 AM...What causes damage to a turbo motor is NOT the increased load caused by the increase in power. It's detonation. Proper intercooling, along with reasonable timing curves, proper fueling, and good heat management, should allow for a mild level of boost to be ran perfectly safe.
thank you, thats what i have been saying.
Ranger?
I have just looked back through the thread and cant see any comments made by yourself that bear any similarity to what Saxman says :laugh: I am not getting drawn in any further, my comments are making me unpopular :o
Anyway Mate, you get cracking on the project and come the 13th Jan we can all expect an update (with pics if poss) :thumb:
Quote from: rangerbrown on July 11, 2006, 05:42:38 PM
i would have to say, after the 14,000 miles i have on my gs. it has very little wear on it.
cam shafts have no wear (or little) timing chain/gears show no signs of any wear.
little to no oil has ever been used, compression still as high as when i got it with 1700 miles
i would liek to perform a leak down test to see what shape the rings are trully in.
in my honest opinion, the gs is more than capable off 100k befor some type of tear down rebuild.
this being said, sure like i said before.
keep the idea simple, dont over do it in hopes for big power, and dont go blasing down the hwy every day at 8-10k and think that a turbo gs would ever last.
like i said, the most if any thing, i would like to see 80hp and 40-50 tq still with in resonable ranges as the gs makes 35tq and 50 hp if tuned right.
big things to get out of the way,
HEAT,
timing
fuel
fuel delivery
oil pressure and temp (again much larger cooler after the turbo, and then a possable reserve tank)
mixture of the fuel (aircraft engines that are N/A and forced induction are runing way rich, for cooling, once off the ground they can be trimed. looking into this as a possable leway)
the rest is easy
if going carb build box and tune as needed (although i know this will be a major pain in the ass)
turbo mounting
exhust routing
intake routing
varable timing
and much more
Quote from: nick_villan on July 12, 2006, 03:56:19 PM
yo sorry im with jake d, if you want more power than upgrade, if not learn to be happy with what ya have and can do with out spending a rediculous amount of $$$
Coming from you, Mr. Bling.... that just sounds funny!!!!
ranger may not have gone into as much detail, but he did get the whole heat management, timing, fuel delivery concept down
Ranger... Man. Try to ignore all those nay-sayers and go forward with your creation! Don't forget to post what you figure out.
I have a few tuners at work... they've turboed Jetta's and other vehicles of the type and they want to help me out this winter to rejet my GS. I'm really looking forward to it and so are they. Every little bit of info you provide would be greatly helpful! :bowdown:
I was thinking of doing a suck thru carb turbo setup with a wastegate instead of a BOV for simplicity and easy of jetting (I guess).
any suggestions?
no no no no no
draw through carb set ups? NO!
if you want it to last, go blow through. To quote the great Corky Bell, "Blow-through statrs better, idles betters, runs smoother at low speed, and produces quicker throttle response and lower emissions. An intercooler can only be used with a blow-through application. The draw-through system is a dead fish."
If you want to know the best way to set the carb up, pick up his book... "Maximum Boost"... chapter 8 discusses carburetion and how to modify normal carbs to work
buying tha book, now.
i would love to go EFI but man that mega squirt is beyond me. i could easly spend 800-900$ on that
jets are cheap.
Quote from: rangerbrown on July 17, 2006, 07:57:34 PM
buying tha book, now.
i would love to go EFI but man that mega squirt is beyond me. i could easly spend 800-900$ on that
jets are cheap.
blow through carb set ups work great... yah, you don't get the same tuning capabilities of efi, but there's no reason a good blow through carb set up can't be used with good success
ranger, if there's anything I can do to be of assistance, let me know. My knowledge of turbos and such goes much much much further than my knowedlge of gs's(which is really pretty limited) though
dont worry, by that time i am done your post count will be up around 200-400
Quote from: rangerbrown on July 17, 2006, 08:08:15 PM
dont worry, by that time i am done your post count will be up around 200-400
I'm not that new around here... just don't post often
"Date Registered: August 04, 2003, 05:20:53 PM "
or so says my profile ;)
I have done the numbers and cacluations before get ready for custom pistons to drop the compression about 4 points and you need to run about 22 pounds of boost cus the turbo isn't going to spool... but have fun with it.... Trust me I have enough problems with My 39mm CR special carbs not moving enough air tell about 6,000rpm going to put a turbo on it look out for the surge... you are going to have no bottem end to do it right I don't care how getto you go and how many used 2 dollar whores you have your going to need about 4 grand to do it close to right and about 6 to really make it fun bags up... No problem oh and you need to cut your cams sprockets so you can change the cam overlap..... make sure you buy another bike before you play cus it sucks not getting your twisty fix.... I was always slappin my arm jones'n while I had my bike apart. But then again maybe you have some good knowledge I don't and a little more experieance than i I do... Maybe if you wanted you could talk to Bob B. if he is still on here and he could give you some info but then again he never went for turbo. The problem is displacement on our motors to ge a turbo small enough to start boosting in the right range. everything made for cars is to big. Got to remember we are half a Gsxr1000 the put one of the smallest T3 turbos on those and make them go nuts and start building boost they run like 8-12 pounds. our engine isn't moving enough volume to start pushing the turbo. oh and at the volume that it will start pushing from the engine your goin to be breaking parts.. cus our engine isn't made to put out 110hp where a turbo will start the boost range... I have poored over this Idea time an time again I know its the GS500 Cool factor but if you want a money pit like my bike has been and have 10k of stuff on a 2k dollar bike so be it keep me posted. I will check back in a year.
I don't know why anyone would run a t3 on a gs... it's WAY too big.
With something more like a gt12, you wouldn't have any issues spooling.
ignoreance... a lot of your post makes me really wonder about your grasp of a lot of the concepts of a turbo set up. I could just be misreading what you're saying, but some of the stuff doesn't add up... lowering the compressior 4 points? With a 9.0:1 comp ratio, there's absolutely no reason to mess with the comp ratio. Drop the comp down to 5:1 like you're saying, and you're absolutely right... it'll be a huge pig down low and never spool, but there's absolutely no reason to do so. Also, the psi made by the turbo isn't really limited by the motor... a t3 doesn't make 8-12 psi because it's on a gsxr1000... it makes 8-12 psi because that's what the wastegate is set at.
and you're right, the motor isn't made to put out 110hp, and I doubt that ranger is really looking at making that much power, but you have to keep in mind that less power, reved out to a higher rpm puts significantly more stress on the internal components then more power down low. Also, a 50-75% increase in power really wouldn't be that difficult, and would make a huge improvement in the perofrmance of the vehicle.
Ignoreance, it sounds much like you ended up crossing the surge line with your turbo. (Meaning the turbo you have is to big)
5.0 to 1 compression? Ummmmm............. I don't know where to start.
And to assure you that they come in small enough sizes for the GS.....
(http://www.btinternet.com/~goosegog/turbodax_files/P8180049.jpg)
Here's that turbo mounted on a 120cc scooter. Supposedly works out pretty well. (Nm he sprung an oil leak, but can hardly blame the turbo except for faulty construction.)
(http://www.btinternet.com/~goosegog/turbodax_files/P5170004.jpg)
I can't pull up a compressor map for that little jobbie, but if I could find it I'm sure that the map would be too small for the GS to fit on.
I think your understanding of how a turbo produces boost is flawed. Horsepower has absolutely nothing to do with with a turbo spooling and creating boost.
You're on the right track when you're talking about volume. All that is needed is a turbo that produces the correct flow at the correct pressure from the GS's exhaust flow and pressure. (Finding the right one is the tricky bit.) Going too small is actually a LOT better than going too big.
Anyways, time for me to sleep and wonder.... WTF did I not just let this thread die?
I have already pulled my compression up 3 points..... Sorry and a need for the clarification and on most of the newer bikes your pullin them down 4 points... a stock 600-1000 is running mostly high 11 to 13. Most of the ex400 honda kits out there are around 4k so yeah you can buy parts from those kits I.E GT12 but why why why I know how much i have done to my engine and know what works and what doesn't yes your correct in saying a GT12 will work after paying to get it the trim right and exhaust tubes set up. Spend the money have heat issues pay for aftermarket coolers. make sure you get a newer GS motor. But then again I think you have one..... Cus your going to have to tap the oil pump in another way if your working on the older GS motors which I have worked on its a pain to tap in. If I had known all the headacke that I was going to have and all the money I have pumped into my bike and believe me I know how to throw time and money into things. Also timing can be an issue but these guys are willing to help.... Me I'm done slamming my head in a wall just getting my NA to run right. I know what your saying about the wastegate but what I'm implying is there pretty much stressing the engine at 8-12 pounds of boost. I under stand it all works on Volume its getting the boost in the target RPM to match up and the displacement of the engine thats the key... (map) setting the right trims in the turbo I know how things work and have played with a many air cooled turbo corvair engines. A bike isn't like a car where the boost range is 3000rpm window. its got a wider range which has its plus and negs.. why I'm explaining myself I don't know... Blah now I'm tired and maybe thats the reason why I'm babling on and on yes stock is 9 to 1 and in a perfect world dynamic compression and static compression would be the same all the time but there not so goodnight.
Quote from: rangerbrown on July 17, 2006, 07:57:34 PM
i would love to go EFI but man that mega squirt is beyond me. i could easly spend 800-900$ on that
it wouldn't cost you nearly that much to do it... a full standalone engine management setup (and I mean FULL setup) with both efi and ignition would cost you around $300... I've done a lot of work with Megasquirt and would be glad to help you with it, including building the kit and setting it up for ignition for you if you did decide to go that route.
carbs might be easier, most likely cheaper, so either way is cool
As for turbo size and what not, a GT12 looks like it would work great, maybe even a little on the small side. Unless you have a high end machine shop and you can machine your own turbine and compressor wheels, 'getting the trim right' is as easy as looking at the efficiency maps of the few available trims, doing a little math, and picking which is best for you. To the best of my knowledge there is only 1 trim for the GT12, so that would be a pretty easy selection. A 40 trim T3 or 45 trim T25 would *work* on the GS and are pretty cheap because they are fairly common on economy turbo'd cars, but you would be out of the compressor efficiency range through most of the power band making it really kinda crappy so it may not be worth the saved $$$.
As for oil supply, that's not a problem. New or old GS I'd just use the oil presure port for oil supply and drill a hole in the oil pan for the oil return.
a gt15 could make for a very interesting turbo... probably provide a little more wiggle room than the gt12, but I don't know the points off the top of my head for a gs motor ;)
as would a vnt18, but that's a whole other discussion... has so many benefits, but a bit more fun to set up.
personally, I would try to go efi if I could, if anything, for the ease of ignition control. On a turbo motor, ignition control is extremeley important to making the thing last. If you go efi, I bet you could find a way to make some itb's from a cbr motor work... yah, it's for a 4 cyl, but they come in sections of two, and could easily be split in half. Already has the spot for fuel injectors and everything.
i am thinking that the GT-12 will be better.
will supply what i need with out a lot of problems from lag
The oil pressure port.... hahaha.... Yeah its called reduced oil flow to the cylinder heads Take a look at your trusty shop manual from the dealership and and look at good old pg 4-14 you tap that bad daddy and you watch your main gallery pressure go to shaZam! cooking the majority of your bike... have fun with that. The new engines are tapped after the oil filter and before the main gallery so its filter then cooled before sent to the main gallery then on to the top of the head crankshaft and most of the other engine parts... If it was really that easy don't you think there would be a write up about it..... Der de Der. I have had the motor apart a couple of times...... Its just that easy to tap things bro make a kit. sell it and give us all an option for the old engines.... but I guess if your goal is to run an oil pump instead of a bike go for it. If you got something that proves me wrong on that then show it. Cus I will be the first to admit I'm wrong.
oh and im with saxman I like the GT15 better it will come on smoother and be a little more scalable.
Sorry if i didn't cook the beans long enough last night. I tend to type and then not edit so sometimes it doesn't make a complete idea.
i was thinking about a complety seprate oil res and pump system, (space depending) or jsut up the press on the regulator.
keep an eye out for a small aerodyne aerocharger... perhaps from the mazda miata kit that was sold for a while...
would be a very lucky find, but would completely solve your oiling needs, and those vnt turbos are just plain sexy
You really think tapping in the oil pressure port would cause a significant loss of oil to the head? I really don't know, I was figuring it would be fine. I realize you couldn't put an oil cooler here, but I wasn't talking about an oil cooler, I was talking about a turbo. You would need a restrictor on the oil supply line to the turbo, something like a 0.06" restriction. I don't think that would divert THAT much oil.
an Aerocharger would be cool, but other than in maximum boost (which kinda pissed me off because they managed to avoid showing you examples of oil/coolant connections), I have never seen one.
as for VNT, that would be pretty niffty, but do they make them small enough? They are pretty complex machines and I've only heard of them on diesel trucks. I could be wrong, I really don't know much about them, but a properly sized VNT turbo on the GS would be retarded (as in the good kind of retarded)
I personally would go with a GT15 as well for a number of reasons.
1) the lag difference between the GT12 and the GT15 would be minimal because of the already high powerband of the GS
2) neither should suffer from any significant surging
3) the GT12 starts to run outside of the efficiency map towards the top of the powerband, maybe not a problem with only 80hp, but after that you'll run out of steam
4) they are the same price
5) the GT12 uses god-knows-what flanges, I have no idea where you'd get those flanges, whereas I believe the GT15 uses standard T3 flanges that can be found at any speed shop or online turbo store/eBay
one question though, is the GT12/GT15 water cooled? might be a little tricky, but I know someone has used the GT15 here before, so I dunno...
PHEW.....Judging by all the talk this Turbo Mod is really gonna be something when its completed. Why not give the Discovery Channel people a call, they might interested in doing a series about it. :laugh: When are we gonna quit talking about it and actually start rattling the spanners???
as soon as my loan goes though for my new truck, theres some extra dow in the deal
with the aerochargers, there aren't water/oil connections... that's how they avoided showing them, and what makes things so nifty for this use
vnt turbos are available in a huge variety of sizes... you could probably find something like a vnt12 of a small european car, etc
they came on all sorts of cars, diesel and gas alike.
what flange the gt15 runs, I have no idea... I'm sure atpturbo could hook you up with them.
don't stress about if the gt15 or gt12 turbos are watercooled... there's no reason you can just plug said ports on the turbo and run it oil cooled only. Would require some good synthetic oil(which you should be running with a turbo set up anyway), and proper cool down of the turbo before shutting the bike off... but absolutely no reason it can't be done.
and sledge... they key to a well executed turbo set up is lots and lots and lots of planning. Get everything figured out before a dime is spent. Rushing into things is going to do nothing be jeapordize the set up.
i know of a turbo that i actualy plan on using on my bike, it is a turbo from a honda cx500 turbo from the 80's it is made to go up to 18.5 psi and will boost you 75% horse
if you're running a turbo at 18.5 psi, and you're only making 75% more hp over stock, your set up has some serious issues
Whats `Dow``? Do you mean `Dough`...as in slang for cash, or is it something else?
Quote from: saxman on July 20, 2006, 12:08:59 AM
if you're running a turbo at 18.5 psi, and you're only making 75% more hp over stock, your set up has some serious issues
actualy the turbo that you are looking at only has a 2 inch spinning wheel causing high psi and not much horsepower to add on your looking at about 85 horse on a rejet motor unless to have some pretty decent mtor work then your pushing aound 100-110 costing you more than the bike is worth so dont go trying to make me look dumb i work part time at mustang specialties and i install twin turbo's atlease once a month and ill tell you what a cx500 turbo can do, if you wanna act smart 18.5 psi on a small turbo like that is not much so learn your stuff before you decide to talk shaZam!, other wise go home and learn your stuff then talk shaZam!, in 1981 the cx500 turbo was perfected for the pulses of a two cyl motor, causing high compression and decent horse upgrade to make a smoothe working bike that did not require alot of maintenance, this is not a honda civic with a 1.6 dohc ls Vtec making 200 horse out of a 6" spinning wheel, this is a motorcycle reving to 10-11k constant while driving fast. so like i said learn your stuff than talk shaZam!. :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff:
I think he is implying that if your running 18.5psi and your only getting 75% more out of thoe motor you have done something wrong.. our motor puts out about low to mid 40's with a pipe. If your running 18.5 psi on the setup and only getting 75% more then you have done something wrong... thats what he is saying there is no reason why you should need to run that high of a boost and only get about 75 horses out of the bike cus thats what you told us... cus I happen to have a caculater that says it knows how to take 42 horse power and hit the little X button and type 1.75 cus i want to add the 42 horses that i have back into it and it gives me a a number of 73.5 now you give that number a +/- 5% and you get any where from 77.2 high to 70 low side on your horses... now you tell me have you done something wrong cus I think i could get that out of about 8-10psi... Oh and what honda Vtec is using a 6" wheel you got to kidding me that means you put on big rig turbo charger and using it way out of its compressor efficiency... Only getting 200 horse damn 1.6L stock makes 160 at motor ohh brother I'm thinking you should probably talk to your boss about a pay raise at that part time jobby job of yours cus he has got the turbo guru Everybody take a look I will bow to this guy
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Don't get me wrong I'm not on her to throw mud but when you put out things like that your going to get bashed... if you look at the page before I had to clear up somethings before I continued and I think were all trying to get on the same page. But if your out in left field were going to try and call you in and set it straight thats all. We aren't picking on you for your turbo choice. It is a good choice what they are bashing you for is the 18.5 psi and getting only 75% gain. Sometimes it takes an edit to clear things.... and sometimes you can clear things up rather than just fire back more nonsense. Take time compose your thoughts. I have the same problem sometimes i don't cook the beans long enough but a simple explination will get you further than bashing people.
with a proper set up(including a proper sized turbo for the flow ratings of the motor) and intercoolering, etc, you should be seeing a ~10% boost in base hp per psi. If your turbo is spinning at 18.5 psi in order to cause a 75% increase in power, you have either the wrong turbo for the motor, or another serious issue.
Yes, a small turbo like that may not flow a lot of cfm, however, the cfm is taken into consideration when you chose the turbo for the motor.
Proper size is key.
Quote from: ignoreance on July 21, 2006, 12:48:07 AM
I think he is implying that if your running 18.5psi and your only getting 75% more out of thoe motor you have done something wrong.. our motor puts out about low to mid 40's with a pipe. If your running 18.5 psi on the setup and only getting 75% more then you have done something wrong... thats what he is saying there is no reason why you should need to run that high of a boost and only get about 75 horses out of the bike cus thats what you told us... cus I happen to have a caculater that says it knows how to take 42 horse power and hit the little X button and type 1.75 cus i want to add the 42 horses that i have back into it and it gives me a a number of 73.5 now you give that number a +/- 5% and you get any where from 77.2 high to 70 low side on your horses... now you tell me have you done something wrong cus I think i could get that out of about 8-10psi... Oh and what honda Vtec is using a 6" wheel you got to kidding me that means you put on big rig turbo charger and using it way out of its compressor efficiency... Only getting 200 horse damn 1.6L stock makes 160 at motor ohh brother I'm thinking you should probably talk to your boss about a pay raise at that part time jobby job of yours cus he has got the turbo guru Everybody take a look I will bow to this guy
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
1.6 lsvtec learn your shaZam!
ive got a 83 yamaha seca 650 turbo sitting in my yard. thinking of the engine transplant to the maxim 650. the turbo is the cutest thing. love the factory sealed carbs too.
Extactly I miss the LS but your still come off sounding retarted. hmmmm LS 1.6........ cus stock an LS Vtec should be a 1.8 block witha 1.6L head..... now math aside you start with a 1.8L block your going to get about 1.8L block cus thats what you started with the head may drop displacement a little but its not going to change the car .2 Leters Link explaing an LS Vtec http://members.tripod.com/crx2/motor.html Cus I could build an N/A LS Vtec to 200+hp motor with out the turbo...
Let me start with a nice little parts list that I helped a buddie with his motor...
Motor Modifications:
11:1 CTR Pistons
Cams
Titanium Valve Spring
Titanium Valve Spring Retainers
Port and Polish Head
Header
270cc Fuel Injectors
Shaved Head and mill .020
Shot-peened and Polished stock rods
Micropolished Crankshaft
Skunk2 Adjustable Cam Gears
Lightened Flywheel Fidanza
B&M Fuel Pressure Regulator
and with coments of a 6" spinning wheel like I said again another retarded statement I don't know why you would put something with a 6" trim fan in a motor like an LS... its wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy tooooooooooooooooooo big.... so do you want to come back to class cus I'm sure if you want to be schooled than I can be your teacher. Its ok not to know and I'm the first to admit I don't know everything and I'm sure not a honda motor guru but. Again your just babling and not clearing anything up that your talking about. If you go back and explain the things that your doing you will get alot furter... Class dismissed.
Now back to the turbo post. rangerbrown make sure when you install larger Oil cooler to put check valves in the line cus you don't want to screw up the sump of the motor Do you know what i mean. one way valves that when the engine stops running it will hold the additional oil in the cooler. Also if your going to go to all that work you may want to install a regular style oil cartrige that way your taking off less shaZam! every time you need to change the oil then you can skip oil fiter in block maybe every two or three changes depending on your comfort level. Also you could put in a larger oil sump tank to maybe keep another quart or two. the stock system on your bike should be able to move it... The check valves are a must to increase your oil sump cus other wise we all know gravity and liquid will find the lowest point. being the bottom of the motor. I hope that helps if not I could draw a little diagram..