hello everyone - i'm 17 and have been really interested in street bikes for a while, and now that i've had a job (landscaping) i've realized i should be spending my hard earned money on something worthwhile so why not get a bike!? my parents are against it but i've been trying and trying to make them understand and allow me to get one for the past couple months. i don't want to get one until i'm 18 cause they definitely wouldn't want me getting one right now. i turn 18 in october so i plan to wait after winter and save up more and more so with time i should have enough for a bike. i tell them im going to take MSF and i've given them all the specs and stuff - but when they see a bike they immediately think speed, police, crashing, broken bones, dying, and immature stunts.. thanks to all the dudes ridin wheelies on the road in tee's and jeans. but with time i think they'd let me haha well maybe. i've also tried showing them the difference between like a 250 500 600 750 and 1000 cause i just think they see a bike and dont care what it is. one of my questions is have any of you been in this same situation? what'd you do?
and like i said i showed them the differences between bikes but i also showed them the two i've been looking at the kawasaki ninja 250 or the suzuki gs500
i would obviously rather have the gs500 cause of power and looks, and bigger engine.. butttt with me only turning 18 and not having a lot of cash.. the ninja 250 really kind of makes more sense to have... brand new starting at $2999(used its probably cheaper) while the gs500 starts at about $5,000 (BIG difference) but if i found a sweet deal on a gs500 used i'd definitely take it but what about insurance? with it being a 500 its probably more than the 250... and 250 is better on gas too.. the ninja goes up to 100mph and gs gets to 110mph, doesnt really matter i dont think i'll be trying to die with my first bike anyways.. what do you guys think?
thanks in advance!
Bwaaaa ... buy neked GS ... :laugh: ... fairing is $$$, insurance is $$$ and its a biatch to fix when its busted.
Cool.
Srinath.
Srinath is right. Go with the GS500. In my personal opinion, a 250 doesn't seem like enough bike for combined street and highway riding. Sure the Ninja will get up to 70, but it is a lot harder to get it there.
A naked GS500 is a great first bike. When you drop it (and you will drop it) the farings won't get smashed up because they aren't there. Try and find a used one, they show up on Craigslist and CycleTrader and eBay fairly regularly so keep an eye out. Prices will range from $1000 to $2500 for a naked one in great condition, typically.
I'm 19 and pay $145/year for minimum liability with Dairyland, so insurance is miniscule at the very least. I paid $170/year when I first got the bike.
However, have you factored in all the costs of owning a bike?
Example:
Initial purchase price: $1500
--Need new tires?: $200 mounted and balanced
--Need a new chain?: $90
Registration and tags: $50
MSF course: $150
Insurance for a year: $170
Helmet: $150+
Jacket: $100+
Gloves: $50+
--Boots: $150+
--Pants: $100+
--Planning to ride year round? More gear: $300+
Maintenance every 4000 miles: $400+ unless you do it yourself
Oil changes: $20+
So you're looking at an investment of probably around $3300 or so. It might be more and it might be less, but that gives you an idea of how owning a bike can nickle and dime you to death.
Want to mod the bike? Better have some more money! :laugh:
Firstly, don't buy a new bike. You'll save a bunch of money and you won't want to stab yourself if you drop the bike or have a small off. Also, many dealers charge "build" fees and freight for a new bike on top of the MSRP - so that $2999 Ninja might end up at over $4k with fees + TTL. Buying a used GS500 for $2500 will get you a very decent bike for a lot less money. You can put the extra cash towards gear (helmet, jacket, gloves, proper moto boots and pants) or your next bike.
Nobody here can tell you how to deal with your parents. Only you know whether a) their views can be changed, b) you are willing to defy them etc.
Be open to the possibility that they are right, and you shouldn't have a bike (yet). Learning to drive a car and building up good road sense and maturity might make you a more successful rider (go ahead people, flame away, it's just my opinion).
C.
People say that 250 is harder to get to highway speeds. I don't understand this.
The 250 runs the quarter in what.. 14s? My civic does it in 16 but I have no trouble accelerating to highway speeds. The 250 surely out accelerates my civic.
save your money for school
I just rode with a Ninja 250 on sunday, it had no real problems hanging with us... might of been ALITTLE slow on the acceleration... but it wasn't all that horrible.
I'd also say go with the GS, but, we're all biased here! And definetely used so you won't feel so bad about getting dings and scratches.
As for your parents. Do you have a drivers' licence for a car yet? How is your driving in the car? If you are getting into accidents and getting speeding tickets, then it's hard to blame them for their stance. Showing them that you are a safe, respectful driver in a car will probably help. In general, behaving like you are a responsible adult as much as possible will probably help convince them. (I never had any issues with my folks... my dad rode bikes forever and he and my mom used to tour 2-up in their younger days).
I would also suggest, go ahead and sign up for MSF and do the course. Even if you don't get a bike right away it shows that you are serious about being safe.
+1
Sound advise GS Jenn. :thumb:
being your 17. if you were my son I would highly suggest going used. and most definetly take the course. even if your parents won't let you get a bike. You can still get take the course.
Then next year it won't matter what they say. :cheers:
Ya know everyone says don't buy a new bike, I say buy whatever you want. I had never been on a bike let alone drivin one and I went out and bought a new gs500. Havent regretted it a bit. If I drop it then I drop it, nothing to be pissed about. and to all those of you who say "everyone new to riding WILL drop their bike", thanks for giving confidence to new riders. I personally would like to think I wont drop it. On the insurance note, I am 20 and was also looking at the ninja 250 and the gs500. The insurance for me is actually about $40 a month cheaper for the gs500 than the ninja 250. I think the insurance companies see Ninja name and raise the prices. And if you are worried about droppig it, get some good insurance and not that bs liability coverage. People will tell you that if you get too confident on a bike it may kill ya, I have very high confidence in everything I do especially driving a car in what most of you would state as "not safe", but lemme tell you i'm a helluva lot safer than some of you slow "safe" drivers out there on the rode in cars and have saved myself from many wrecks from being over confident and not being afraid to do anything to make my skills better as long as i am not endangering anyone else. Am I saying go buy a bike and do 110 down the interstate the first day, no. But don't be afraid of anything you do on it or it will bite you. You just have to make sure you know your limits until you get to that point on anything you do. Take baby steps until you get good. And pay attention instead of daydreaming.
thanks for all your responses so far, great stuff - i've had my drivers license for about a year and half but have been driving almost 2. no speeding tickets or anything.. i'm a responsible kid, get really good grades and stuff so i thought i'd try to play that into the mix and i know that when i'm 18 i COULD go out and buy one butttt my dad 'jokes' telling me i won't have a place to live either.. so that joke might turn into reality.. haha
I feel for you when it comes to convincing your parents. My parents always told myself and my brothers that they dont care if we choose to ride a motorcycle, however as long as we were living at home they would not allow us to own one.
In a way I'm kinda glad they did that because at 18 I probably would have killed myself on a motorcycle. :icon_confused:
Its mainly a matter of that they are your parents and if you live with them than it is their rules.
Honestly the best thing you could probably do is try to get your dad or mom to take the MSF course with you. Best case, they end up loving riding so much that they want to get a bike as well. Hopefully though it will show them the real aspects of riding a motorcycle, not the aspects that all the non-riders and media choose to see and convey.
Otherwise you just need to wait til you are on your own to get one. Its easier to hone your on-road skills with 4 wheels than it is with 2. Any extra time you spend driving on the street benefits you in the end.
Don't give up on wanting to ride... just realize that it might take a bit longer for you to lose the extra 2 wheels :)
Everyone else has already touched on the used, not new part, so I'll let you read what they have to say there.
Good luck, and keep the shiny side up, regardless of the number of wheels. :icon_mrgreen:
I cant really give any advise on the parent thing either because i have had fulll time jobs since I was 16 and I moved out and to the city when I turned 18 so I havent had as many problems with things as most kids. My parents always respected the fact that I worked my ass off and thought I could do what I want as long as I was responsible about whatever it was I wanted to buy or do. I would say that 99.5% of parents will not kick you out for doing anything they don't like though. They might be mad for a few days but thats about it. Sure does work to scare ya when they say it though right? :laugh:
06GS.. experienced riders tell new riders that they are going to drop the bike because they probably will.
I've had my bike 2 weeks, have not even left the parking lot, and I've almost dropped it once. If I wasn't in decent shape from going to the gym I would've dropped it.
And being overconfident (in anything, really) will get you killed.
Quote from: 06GSowner on July 12, 2006, 02:02:03 PM
Ya know everyone says don't buy a new bike, I say buy whatever you want. I had never been on a bike let alone drivin one and I went out and bought a new gs500. Havent regretted it a bit. If I drop it then I drop it, nothing to be pissed about. and to all those of you who say "everyone new to riding WILL drop their bike", thanks for giving confidence to new riders. I personally would like to think I wont drop it. On the insurance note, I am 20 and was also looking at the ninja 250 and the gs500. The insurance for me is actually about $40 a month cheaper for the gs500 than the ninja 250. I think the insurance companies see Ninja name and raise the prices. And if you are worried about droppig it, get some good insurance and not that bs liability coverage. People will tell you that if you get too confident on a bike it may kill ya, I have very high confidence in everything I do especially driving a car in what most of you would state as "not safe", but lemme tell you i'm a helluva lot safer than some of you slow "safe" drivers out there on the rode in cars and have saved myself from many wrecks from being over confident and not being afraid to do anything to make my skills better as long as i am not endangering anyone else. Am I saying go buy a bike and do 110 down the interstate the first day, no. But don't be afraid of anything you do on it or it will bite you. You just have to make sure you know your limits until you get to that point on anything you do. Take baby steps until you get good. And pay attention instead of daydreaming.
OK now we know how you knackered that head gasket ... O0
Cool.
Srinath.
well you know what bike, but what about the rents
well i would THINK they'd have to agree with me on my choosing the bike i want - because i'm not one of those kids who want the baddest fastest thing alive.. i want something that looks good, has some power but not very intimidating to a new rider and is capable of both regular street and highway.. enough speed to get the job done but not enough to just spit me off.. which i think is the low entry level bikes i've been looking at (ninja250 and gs500)
Why not add the EX500 (Ninja) to the list, too? Comparable to the GS500 in specs, and a little larger (dimensions wise) than the 250, so it would be slightly more comfortable, and since it has the larger motor, would be able to handle the freeway a little better than the 250.
Convincing the parents is going to be your biggest challenge. The bike will fall into your lap - sorta. You need to focus all of your efforts and energy towards convincing your parents. Which parent is more against you getting a bike? Try to convince that parent to take the MSF course with you. You might just change their minds. In the mean time, do everything in your power to make them trust you 110%, make them see that you are responsible, etc.
Also...though you'll take the MSF course soon - hopefully, you may not get the bike for several months. The old addage of "If you don't use it, you lose it." when it comes to learned material is very true. In 3 months, if you haven't practiced, you will have lost almost all of what you learned in the MSF. Tell your parents that you will take the MSF course AGAIN when you get your bike as reinforcement for what you learned the first time. This time, convince the OTHER parent to come and take it with you - who knows, they may offer to help pay for it. :thumb:
But, most importantly, before you get in the big arguement with them, be sure you collect as much ammunition and evidence for your case as you possibly can. But, don't tell them something stupid like "There are 200x [made up number] as many fatalities annually in cars than on motorcycles." because then, they'll probably just take away your driving privelages all together! And we don't want that. :nono:
I'm kind of in the same boat, but I'm 22, so I can do whatever I please, but I would rather not have my family disown me and cut me out of their wills....if you get my drift...haha.
O0
but do they now the difference, well really it makes none, you can get hurt on a 50 cc bike. which is the point you rent will make, be prepared.
As for price, I looked a bit back when I was looking for a beginner bike and wasn't able to find a lot of used ninja 250s. The ones that I found didn't end up being much cheaper than the used GS's, which are more plentiful. I'd say that it would probably be worth it to get the GS unless you can find a used ninja for $400 or more less than a used GS. Keep in mind that the ninja might not fit you, it would be a good idea to try sitting on both before you decide. Both would suit you well, and of course we're going to recommend the GS, but if you can get a really good price on the ninja, its better than nothing. I'm among those who recommend against getting a new bike. Right now you're going to be learning to ride, and for that you don't need anything very spiffy. If you really like the GS and decide to stick with it then maybe you'll buy a new one later, but until you know what you want (and even if you like riding), I'd stick to used. As Alpha pointed out, the nickle and dime stuff is gonna kill you. I just bought a used GS for $1200, then spent $80 making it run properly, $300 on gear (and i'm not done yet), $128 on title and registration, and a bit more on tools and gas. So, I'm at $1700, and I'm sure I'm not done spending. I don't have pants, boots, or a lock yet!
As for convincing the parents, if you can get them to take the course with you, that would definitely help. Otherwise you just have to prove that you're willing to be safe. Decide what gear you want, and tell them about how well it will protect you. Find the Hurt report statistics and tell them about how people who die on motorcycles are usually things you'll be smart enough to be careful about, i.e. not wearing helmets, riding drunk, things like that. Good luck!
Quote from: lostsurf on July 12, 2006, 03:14:59 PM
well i would THINK they'd have to agree with me on my choosing the bike i want - because i'm not one of those kids who want the baddest fastest thing alive.. i want something that looks good, has some power but not very intimidating to a new rider and is capable of both regular street and highway.. enough speed to get the job done but not enough to just spit me off.. which i think is the low entry level bikes i've been looking at (ninja250 and gs500)
You seem exactly like me when I was first looking at bikes. I was about 17 at the time, and even though my father rode bikes, both parents had a problem with me wanting one. I took the MSF course with my father and got the 2nd highest grade in the class, 2 points behind my father (who has been riding for 40 some odd years).
I kept asking them and asking them and demonstrating how responsible I could be and whatnot. My mother was the most stubborn of either of them, and after a while my father was actively trying to help me get a bike. I rode in the dirt for a year and a half prior, but I realize that isn't practical for some to do. After a while my mother said "If he gets a bike, I am not going to be responsible if anything happens to him." I was 18 and a half at the time, and my father and I took that as her aquiescing to my wishes. I got the bike and brought it home that day. She was furious.
Even though I crashed the bike 3 weeks later (The GS has enough power to get you in trouble, trust me) they supported me and helped me find a new bike because they could tell it was something I really enjoyed and cared about.
Just demonstrate maturity and responsibility and try to get them to support you. Take the MSF class, just because.
Quote
You seem exactly like me when I was first looking at bikes. I was about 17 at the time, and even though my father rode bikes, both parents had a problem with me wanting one. I took the MSF course with my father and got the 2nd highest grade in the class, 2 points behind my father (who has been riding for 40 some odd years).
I kept asking them and asking them and demonstrating how responsible I could be and whatnot. My mother was the most stubborn of either of them, and after a while my father was actively trying to help me get a bike. I rode in the dirt for a year and a half prior, but I realize that isn't practical for some to do. After a while my mother said "If he gets a bike, I am not going to be responsible if anything happens to him." I was 18 and a half at the time, and my father and I took that as her aquiescing to my wishes. I got the bike and brought it home that day. She was furious.
Even though I crashed the bike 3 weeks later (The GS has enough power to get you in trouble, trust me) they supported me and helped me find a new bike because they could tell it was something I really enjoyed and cared about.
Just demonstrate maturity and responsibility and try to get them to support you. Take the MSF class, just because.
Quote
Good advice but man Alpha you sould like your 30 somthing in that post not 19 :laugh:
It's the mileage, not the age. -Indiana Jones
Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on July 12, 2006, 03:28:38 PM
Even though I crashed the bike 3 weeks later (The GS has enough power to get you in trouble, trust me) they supported me and helped me find a new bike because they could tell it was something I really enjoyed and cared about.
Just demonstrate maturity and responsibility and try to get them to support you. Take the MSF class, just because.
Which is where the famous MSF saying of "Congratulations, you graduated. Just remember, this class does not show that you know how to ride on the road, what it shows is that you are able to handle a motorcycle at 15mph or less in a controlled parking lot setting with instructors watching your every move." Comes into play. If you just take the MSF it is close to pointless. You need to take the MSF, and then actively practice what they taught you on your bike.
AlphaFire... no offense meant to you at all, your crash just kinda made for a way to point something out.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=2893.msg22541#msg22541
Like it has been said: Demonstrate maturity in the whole situation.
When I was interested in a bike I wanted a brand new EX500, and I was a determined 19 year old. My dad was ok with it, he knew I was responsible and didn't drive like an idiot, but my mother was another story. Like most mothers, they worry and immediately began thinking the worst. I think that me being her only child also had something to do with it. Anyway I researched everything on owning a bike, I mean everything and told my parents all about it. I was showing them I wasn't going into this thing blinded or naive. Well after 2-3 months, she gave in but still wasn't excited about the whole idea. Be patient.
I don't know you. No one on this board does. Only you and your parents know YOU the best.
Your parents are biased. They love you and don't want you to get hurt.
But the question is this:
Are you being honest with yourself? Are you REALLY responsible enough to ride a motorcycle (considering you haven't been DRIVING long).
Ask yourself this:
How do you act around your family (parents mainly)???
Do you act 180 degrees different when around your friends?
If the second answer is "YES", most likely you AREN'T ready for a bike. I'm 100% this isn't what you wanted to read, and I know you really don't care what we try to say to you. If you're not gonna listen to YEARS of experience, at least PLEASE be honest with YOURSELF.
If you do end up getting a bike, please ride safe. A bike is NOT a toy.
Very very well put!
+1 to annguyen! :thumb:
If your current arguments aren't getting you anywhere, you need to negotiate to an intermediate position. I like what the others said about inviting one (or both) parents to take the MSF RiderCourse (BRC) with you.
If that doesn't interest them, then at least get them to come with you and watch the range exercises. I think the methodical process of building motor skills should win at least your Dad over. If you can get one allied with you on this or you'll never win.
The BRC is the "Drivers Ed" of Motorcycling. If they go for this, then you can argue to get at least a Helmet and park the balance of your equipment purchases until after you take the course. Save your pennies for now and play it one step at a time.
Quote from: seshadri_srinath on July 12, 2006, 02:29:45 PM
OK now we know how you knackered that head gasket ... O0
Cool.
Srinath.
:laugh: Good one Srinath. :thumb:
was reading a bike magazine a few months ago because I was looking at a 250 as well.. they got theirs up to 101.
I agree that the Ninja 250R is a kick-ass beginner bike. It runs at freeway speeds without a problem. (Amazing how gearing and a high-reving engine can do that.)
Proof? If you've got the bandwidth, download and play the Timelapse movies (http://www.bikepics.com/bikemovies/timelapse/) from the 250R from Toronto. He's running 120-130 KPH (70-80 MPH) and he has RPM's to spare. If the bike fits, ride it...
i do care what you guys are saying and i am taking it all in - thats why i came here.. i do think i am ready for the responsibilities that come with having a bike.. i basically act the same between my parents and friends - i just dont swear when i'm with my parents haha.. at first when i actually asked them if i could get a bike they said no and i asked again seriously and my mom told me if i work hard enough to pay for it myself - so i got excited and really started looking at bikes and then when i got serious about it they kind of i guess were surprised and now again saying no.. so i think its just going to take time (which of course i have).
For your 1st bike, don't make the same mistake I did... Be sure to BUY USED You'll gain the skills and then in a few years want another bike (happens to most, esp at 18-20 myself incl.)
I had a very hard time selling it to my parents and felt I was in the same situtation as you, I just did my thing got my MSF done and got the bike.. They then realized it wasn't a death certificate they thought, as long as you're smart riding can get a lot safer. (never as safe as a car but not as dangerous as they may think..)
Go used the 500 or 250, neither will blow your socks off so take w/e deal you'd like because one you start you'll want some money saved for your next bike, lol. best of luck :thumb:
haha thank you - and everyone else.. i forgot to mention a line that my mother keeps telling me .. i bet a lot of you in my case also heard this.. "it's not youuu i'm worried about it's the other people out on the road that worry me" plus since i live in pittsburgh (well suburb of pitt) i dont know if any of you other guys heard this but our quarterback ben roethlisberger got jackedddd up on his 'busa and it wasnt his fault and speeding wasnt a factor so they also probably took that into consideration
Quote from: lostsurf on July 12, 2006, 08:10:48 PM
i do care what you guys are saying and i am taking it all in - thats why i came here.. i do think i am ready for the responsibilities that come with having a bike.. i basically act the same between my parents and friends - i just dont swear when i'm with my parents haha.. at first when i actually asked them if i could get a bike they said no and i asked again seriously and my mom told me if i work hard enough to pay for it myself - so i got excited and really started looking at bikes and then when i got serious about it they kind of i guess were surprised and now again saying no.. so i think its just going to take time (which of course i have).
IMO, it really does sound like you're taking this seriously with your parents. You have to SHOW them HOW serious you are about being safe. Sign up for the MSF course. Buy the gear. That's the best way to show them you are serious about safety.
Dude,
I hate to say this, but I agree with your parents. I think you should wait awhile to get a bike. MSF course is only a start to safe driving, there is alot you need to learn even after the course. Motorcycle riding is extremely dangerous, especially with all the traffic on the road today. I'd like to see you take the MSF and then apply many of the lessons learned in that course to driving a CAR. The reason I say this is that I'm not trying to "dis" on your age, mentally you may be prepared and I'm sure you are logically mature enough to understand and apply the correct concepts of safe riding. BUT, at 17 years old your body is going through massive changes which affect the amount of testoserone and other hormones which can and does affect your judgement. My advice to you is to hold off for a couple of years, driving a car, and see how well you make out. Save you money in the meantime so that you can buy the bike you want.
Chris
Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on July 12, 2006, 01:35:17 PM
I'm 19 and pay $145/year for minimum liability with Dairyland, so insurance is miniscule at the very least. I paid $170/year when I first got the bike.
:mad:
I pay $2200/year to ride the GS
:mad:
note to self: move to texas
Take the MSF then go back to them. Show them you mean business. Also don't get a new bike. You WILL drop it, not even up for debate. I'm a poor college student and I got a used 89 for $1100 24k mi needed a new chain, new tires but ran like a champ. Search craigslists, local classifieds, and check the forum here if you want a cheap reliable bike. Don't geta 250cc. Too weak.
Quote from: blue05twin on July 12, 2006, 03:36:07 PM
Good advice but man Alpha you sould like your 30 somthing in that post not 19 :laugh:
Yeah, I get that a lot.
Quote from: JonC on July 12, 2006, 03:43:22 PM
AlphaFire... no offense meant to you at all, your crash just kinda made for a way to point something out.
None taken. That's why I brought it up, really. I made a mistake a paid the price for it. Motorcycles are inherently dangerous by nature, and the responsibility of one can come with consequences as well if you don't respect it.
I would consider waiting before buying the bike not because of your age, but because of money! If you are planning on going to college, you will be hurting bad in the wallet, and if you have to pay off the bike and go to school at the same time, you might not have the time to work as much and could end up not being afford the bike. Everything on a bike adds up quickly, gear is expensive!, insurance, for me is expensive, and soon you will be riding alot and gas will add up, exp when your young every penny counts. Just make sure your financially able to handle all the money stuff first. but of course I am assuming your going to college. If you arent go buy the bike, just be responsible on it.
LostSurf,
Not long ago, my situation regarding motorcycles was similar to yours. Back in August/September of 2005, I was 17 years old and I wanted to get a motorcycle, just like you. I was still 17 when I actually got my bike in March of this year. I can tell you how things worked out for me, but it's important to remember that you are not me and my parents are not your parents. Your parents may be more or less stubborn than mine, and to other people (your parents), you may appear to be more or less ready for riding than I was, if you know what I mean. So, it follows that my recommendations might not help, but I'm sure that common sense has already told you this.
Anyway, with that little disclaimer out of the way, you have to start with yourself: though you already said you are, you have to really, truly give yourself an honest evaluation on whether or not you are ready to start riding. Riding a motorcycle on the street is no joke. It doesn't matter if you ride a liter-bike or a 50cc scooter; it is very easy to get yourself seriously injured or killed on any motorcycle. Take a look at this website (http://www.cmyoung.com/bikewreck.html#Caution) and really think about crashing. Think about the extreme pain that this guy had to go through and the depression of sitting around injured like that for such a long time. The injuries are real and they will hurt like almost nothing you have ever felt before; if you think rug burn from a carpet stings, you don't even want to imagine what roadrash feels like. Granted, this guy was injured largely because he was irresponsible, but remember that accidents happen to everyone. Based on your posts thus far, you seem like a fairly mature young man, but I'm not really one to pass judgement on somebody -- good or bad. Only you can determine if you are mature enough to take riding seriously. I don't mean to try and scare you away from riding, but there's nothing wrong with waiting if you think you aren't ready for riding yet and want to get some more time behind a wheel. You may thank yourself in the end if you aren't really ready. On the other hand, if you lie to yourself, saying that you're ready when you really know you aren't, you can very easily wind up lying in a hospital bed with painful injuries and parents that have broken hearts -- both of which take a long time to heal. And when you're sitting there thinking about it, you'll regret not answering honestly. So, be honest with yourself.
Now that my rant is over -- and I really don't mean to scare you away -- I can offer you some advice. Money is, obviously, one of the most important things in achieving your goal. As I'm sure you've found out, getting thousands of dollars can take a while when you are making near-minimum-wage like I was. It took me several months of working five days a week -- weekends and some weekdays after school -- to get enough to finally ride. Arguably, just as important as getting the money is saving[/u] your money. Spending a few dollars here and there for the movie tickets and a double whopper will add up very quickly when you're doing it several times a week. Remember that spending even just five dollars for a fast food meal can be almost 10% of a full day's (eight hours) work at minimum wage in the USA. 10% might not sound like much when you're dealing with 50 dollars, but 10% of $2,500.00 ($250.00) can easily make the difference between riding in full gear or riding without boots and riding pants -- both things that you should never ride without unless you want to deal with incredible amounts of pain and an equally incredible hospital bill. With me being very close in age to you, I know that it's a nice feeling to finally have money and be able to buy things whenever you want. But if you want a motorcycle without waiting for years (when you turn 18, it will be hard to save money because you have so many other responsibilities and new things to pay for), you need to discipline yourself into saving your money...and stay true to your discipline. Get a bank account (or some kind of savings account at a financial institution) and throw all your paychecks in there. Put it in a savings account so it will be harder to spend your money on irrelevant little things that will slowly eat away your earnings. Does this mean you can't spend your money on other things and reap the fruits of your labor occasionally? Of course not. But be careful, because getting in the swing of letting small, non-important purchases get in the way of your financial goals is a bad, bad habit to get into. Things like "i've realized i should be spending my hard earned money on something worthwhile so why not get a bike!?" tell me that this should be no big deal for you, and that's something to be proud of, as many people around where I live would sooner kill themselves before they save a little money.
Having your money all in one pile and ready-to-go helps you in other ways, too. One thing that upset me was that, with me being "only" 17, I couldn't legally engage in a loan -- even with a co-signature from parents will good credit. As a result, I had to wait longer, but this made the buying process go by easier in the end, although I must admit I wish I could have had some easy credit to put towards my credit history. Consider doing one of the two things: save up all your money so you can buy everything with cold, hard cash, or get your parents to take a loan under their name for the motorcycle and have you pay the "bills." Personally, I think the first one would be more realistic for you. Your parents don't seem to be very willing at this point, and, of course, getting them to sign a loan requires them to be willing. With the cash option, you don't need your parents' cooperation, but you have to wait longer, and you don't have the immediate opportunity to seal up some easy, solid credit history. Still, you'll be able to get your bike before you are 18. Also, one very important thing that saving up cash instead of credit is that it puts extra emphasis on how serious you are about the motorcycle. Your parents will admire you for being so disciplined to save up all that cash and not spend it on other things. This can help massively in getting them to see things from your perspective, and understand that you are the real deal and not half-hearted about it.
Also on the money topic, as others have mentioned, make sure you take everything into account. You need the motorcycle, of course, and I would highly[/u] recommend getting full protective gear (no slacking!), full-coverage insurance (it will save your ass and you will thank yourself for not getting just liability), and a MSF or equivilent rider training course. Then you have your registration/tags/emissions fees and your permit (I had to get my riding permit because I was under 18. :bs: I don't know if this is true in PA), even though these are usually small. AlphaFire provided a good list to look at to understand just how expensive all of this together can be, but do your own research to find out how much all of this will cost. Don't short-change yourself on any of it, because it is likely to bite you later on if you do. The feeling of not having to worry about any of these things alone is worth it.
Once you have your money goals all planned out, the next thing to focus on in order to get the motorcycle is the parents. It's important to respect your parents and not just ignore them. They love you and they don't want to see you hurt or killed. Instead of just saying, "Whatever, I'm getting this bike whether you like it or not," show them that you can be exceptionally responsible in achieving your goals of riding a motorcycle. Educate them on the facts of riding. This can be tough, and it doesn't sound like you have been having much luck. I wasn't in much better shoes. My mom was skeptical and my dad absolutely did not want me to get one. He would never stop talking about how dangerous it was and how I was going to get killed. I also heard the "It's not you I'm worried about. I'm worried about all the other crazy drivers out there" line non-stop from him. He talked about how I wouldn't have any money leftover to live anywhere. He said everything to get me to not buy a bike. He even seriously pressed the idea of him buying me a car with no strings attached if I would never buy a road bike. I think part of the problem with my dad was that he rode motorcycles when he was in his 20s. Although he rode dirt bikes as a kid and even podiumed in a few racing tournaments, his first street bike was a 1973 Kawasaki H2 Mach IV. This was a 750cc three-cylinder two-stroke "superbike" that was modified by him to put out over 100 rear-wheel horsepower (for the 70s, this was ridiculous). I'm sure he had more than a few frightening experiences and probably almost killed himself on more than one occasion. Thus, he was terrified of street motorcycles and even more scared of the thought of me on one.
Anyway...they care about you, and that is why they are reluctant. But if you are a genuinely responsible person, it might be possible to convince them. These are all things that helped me out. Some of them helped more than others, and they might not help you. Regardless, they're worth considering. As I've said, getting your financial situation in gear can really impress your parents and get the door open for you. This sealed the deal in getting my parents to see that I was serious. While this won't help you, I had been taking a break from working before I started saving up for a motorcycle. When my parents saw that I got a job primarily to get a bike, they saw that I was dedicated. It sounds to me like you have been talking to them about things like protective equipment, starter bikes, and riding instruction. This is good. Make sure you talk about these things as much as you talk about other motorcycle-related topics. Try and get a riding instruction class that will take place around when you think you will actually have the money to cover all of your aforementioned riding costs. As others have said, this is good because all of the course material will be fresh in your mind when you actually get to riding your own bike. Regardless, it is important that you get up and make the call and reserve your spot. This will show your parents that you are not joking -- no joke that you really want a motorcycle, and no joke that you take motorcycle safety seriously. In a worst-case scenario, you can always cancel your reservation and almost certainly get all of your money refunded back to you (check the class policy on this). Sticking to what you say and following through with it will ease their worries.
How are you as a driver? You said you have no speeding tickets, so I assume you have a clear record. When you drive, are you an aggressive driver? Do you take risks? Do you sometimes get upset and yell when people do things like cut you off? All of these things influence how your parents think that you will ride your bike, and they may be right. I've always been a pretty mellow driver; I typically drive with the flow of traffic, don't accelerate hard (unless it's necessary, of course), my braking is smooth and spread out, I always use my turn signals and check my mirrors/blind spots, I keep a healthy following distance so when the car next to ve needs to get over RIGHT NOW and they cut me off, I don't get angry...If you have a lot of good driving habits and aren't a big risk-taker, parents will respect that. If you're the kind of driver who weaves in and out of traffic, always slams on the brakes, always has the accelerator down heavy, is always yelling or complaining about other drivers, and take a lot of risks that result in some close calls, your parents won't even consider letting you get a motorcycle. If you have some bad driving habits (again, be honest), try and work on being a better driver to reassure your parents when they are in the car with you and you are driving. My parents always loved to let me drive (they trusted my driving, although I question them doing this with me still having my fair share of inexperience), and I think this helped them gain confidence in me being a good rider as well.
It's good that you've been driving for a little while. I would drive a fair amount when I got my permit and when I got my new job in autumn, I would drive almost 50 miles a day to work in rush-hour traffic on the way home for several months. So if you are getting a fair amount of driving experience like I did, it may help to get parents to recognize this.
Bringing up things like grades and whatnot may help, but I personally think this is not a very accurate gauge of how responsible you'll be. I know some kids who have fantastic grades who have been in multiple accidents (all their fault) and are still horrible drivers, and I know some kids who are failing in multiple classes who have never been in an accident and are very safe, very focused drivers. In the end, if you're a good guy with a good head on your shoulders, your parents will see this and hopefully grant your wish. And if they still refuse, October isn't horribly far off, either.
As for what bike to choose...It's obvious that you need something that will be very inexpensive to buy and maintain. As others have said before me, used bikes are important to keep the costs down. It's just as important that your first motorcycle has power that is predictable and forgiving, lightweight, and takes abuse well. Both the Ninja 250R and the GS500E have these things. I prefer the 250R due to its lighter weight, less powerful engine, and better fuel economy. However, the GS500E has less fairing and is a fantastic-looking bike, in my opinion. To be honest, you can't go wrong with either one if you treat them with respect.
Anybody who automatically discounts a 250 because they are "slow" has almost certainly never spent a few hundred miles on one around town and in normal usage. With a 0-60 time of 5.75 seconds, the 250R is only slow in the acceleration department if your former everyday drive was an Enzo Ferrari. As for top speed: that depends on several things, but many people over at the Ninja 250 Riders Club report indicated top speeds of over 100 MPH -- or even more with sprocket changes. This is more than enough for a new rider, in my opinion.
Also, a bit of advice for you if you end up getting the Ninja 250R: when getting insurance for it, always refer to it as the EX250 (its former model name). As has been mentioned before in this thread, some insurance companies will automatically increase the fee if they hear either "Ninja" or "R" in the model name.
Last but not least, dual-purpose motorcycles between 250cc and 500cc from the big four of Japan are outstanding first bikes. They may not look pretty, but they are fun as hell to ride on the street and off-road, they're easy to work on, very newbie-friendly, lightweight, get good fuel economy, dirt cheap to buy, insure, and maintain/repair, and take newbie abuse fantastically. You'll be hard-pressed to find a better bike to introduce you to street riding.
Uh... Are you gonna get that published? :laugh:
just kidding. I was able to read some of it. and basically it's confirmation of what we've been saying, except from a teenager. I'm impressed at TheCurve. :thumb:
as a lad i had a few bikes but my favourite by far was when i was 16 and had just got my full licence(we can get our learners at 15 in new zealand) was a honda xr250 its a dirt bike but will do 130kph all day(80mph) not terribly fast but the thing would go any where, was cheap to run easy to maintain, and basically indestructable, (yep i had lots of crashes on it, all off road though)
if i was to start again i would have got that bike from the start instead of a 55hp rgv250,
so think about road legal dirt bikes, i think they would be cheaper to insure as well.
good luck :thumb:
after reading all these posts you should probably get a busa. :thumb: :2guns:
Quote from: tussey on July 13, 2006, 09:05:22 AM
after reading all these posts you should probably get a busa. :thumb: :2guns:
Quote from: Squid on http://www.cmyoung.com/bikewreck.html#CautionHey man I was going through a Hayabusa forum when I saw this. I'm 16 years old and about to buy a 2004 Hayabusa in a few months. Your story just totally changed the way I think about leathers and gear. I hope your feeling better and are all healed up. Take care of yourself. Nathan
Just like that kid, eh? :cookoo: :cookoo:
Saw that on the page TheCurve linked to with the story of that guy's wreck...what a maroooon!! :cookoo:
the curve - that was great (ur first post too so i bet theres plenty more to come).. and i have to mention i'm not planning to get this bike anytime soon like this summer or anything.. i want to wait until i am 18 cause right now just the line 'a 17 year old on a street bike' sounds a little iffy to me. since i turn 18 in october i was just planning to continue saving my money (which i do, i get paid 8/hr and its in checks so they sit under my bed until my mom tells me i should put it in the bank cause i like the fact that i HAVE the money and CANT spend it on stupid little stuff, and also sounds a little cheesy but i have a cartoon in my room that sealed shut and i put my loose change and a couple bucks here and there in it so i cant get it either).. and since its october that means winter is going to right around the corner so i'm just goin to focus on my school/sports and if i have time probably pick up a job (no landscaping/grass cutting in winter haha) and wait for spring/summer.. so i'll be like 18 and a half and then be 100% serious about the bike...
thats why i'm trying to do this now - plan it all out responsibly and have more time to think/convince parents
If you want to ride next year.. you should start looking at bikes in January through March. Bikes will be cheapest then.
while i was researching i found this: http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/model_eval/NinjaGScomparo07a.pdf
We don't like to talk about that. ;)
Quote from: lostsurf on July 13, 2006, 11:17:14 AM
while i was researching i found this: http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/model_eval/NinjaGScomparo07a.pdf
Yeah. The Ninja is a "superior" bike over the GS in pretty much every review. Honestly though, the review only means so much. Go sit on both of them, go ride both of them if you can. Then choose which bike feels better to you. It wont matter much that the Kawi is a "superior" bike if you cant get your foot under the shifter, or your legs cramp up from the seating position, etc. ;)
I don't know about anyone else, but I had my heart set on a naked bike, so I never really considered a Ninja.
Quote from: GS Jenn on July 13, 2006, 02:44:25 PMI don't know about anyone else, but I had my heart set on a naked bike, so I never really considered a Ninja.
Yeah... I had my heart set on a late 60's UJM... But, the GS was close enough. :icon_razz:
Quote from: Altephor on July 12, 2006, 01:49:12 PM
People say that 250 is harder to get to highway speeds. I don't understand this.
The 250 runs the quarter in what.. 14s? My civic does it in 16 but I have no trouble accelerating to highway speeds. The 250 surely out accelerates my civic.
Cars and bikes are much different, obviously.
My bike may run faster than my car in the quarter mile (I drive a miata) but from a roll @ 70 the car would take the bike, and keep going up to 130+
The power to weight ratio only works for so long :icon_twisted:
On topic: i say get the ninja :kiss3:
Quote from: lostsurf on July 13, 2006, 11:17:14 AM
while i was researching i found this: http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/model_eval/NinjaGScomparo07a.pdf
Man, I am selling my gs right now and getting a 500R!!
Yeah right!
Quote from: mike_mike on July 12, 2006, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on July 12, 2006, 01:35:17 PM
I'm 19 and pay $145/year for minimum liability with Dairyland, so insurance is miniscule at the very least. I paid $170/year when I first got the bike.
:mad:
I pay $2200/year to ride the GS
:mad:
note to self: move to texas
say what?
fully covered and max med i only pay just over 300 a year.
22 years old, progressive
gieco, on the other hand with 1,000 deduc and no med it was 1300 a year.
also, sweet deal here for those that didnt know,
my gs is better than a 05 stock ninja 500.
in what ways you ask?
1. both bikes filled at same time. ninja runs out of fuel before me. (and when i say that, i mean my buddy didn't go back off of reserve when we filled up) i had not even gotten into the reserve yet.
2. 60-100 runs i take the lead every time.
3. all though the ninja had better off line TQ, i can pull on him if he/she doesnt know how to ride.
4. the gs feels bigger and more stable (three people, all rode both bikes and cam to same solution)
5. the ninja 500 is no longer made (2006 is last year, being replaced by 650 ninja)
Sounds like you're approaching this very sensibly. Here are some ideas for dealing with the parental units:
1. Go ahead and take the MSF course when you can afford it and have time. Here in Southern California, the waiting list to get into a class can be a couple of months.
2. When you review the costs of various bikes, be sure to check on the cost of insurance. My husband and I were just rudely surprised to discover that our insurance company considers the GS a "high performance" bike, and it costs more to insure than our SV650!
3. Once you're ready to commit (after you've passed the MSF course and gotten your license), start investing in some good safety gear. You'll need it anyway, and it demonstrates a commitment to safety that will be hard for your parents to argue with.
One final note: both my parents and my husband's parents still give us grief about bikes, and we're in our 40's! Good luck.