http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060822/COLUMNIST05/608220306/1019/NEWS03
squids make it hard for cagers to trust us...thats the feel i get from this article...this is from a local paper...
It is only his opinion, that's what I gather. But, it is a concern of his about these "squids" that he does not want to see them get hurt. Furthering our need to educate and regulate these squids, before we become legislated out of existance.
def true....
i was reading another news story about this off duty police officer riding on the highway speeding and this fireman got annoyed of it..he tried to turn on his blue light but the cop did not slow down knowing that he was a fireman only...the guy than was enraged and rammed the bike ...dragging the guy for 300 yard...the guy blew a .12 and the state limit is .08 for alcohol....
i guess you just gotta be careful no matter what....and respect the ppl driving...
I felt it was only his opinion, but it didn't feel like he expressed or supported his ideas very well.
Maybe it was the stupid one-line paragraphs throughout the whole "article"
h6
Everybody is entitled to their opinions. With everything that has happened, I just want everyone to have fun and ride safe. I started riding in April and fell in love. But sometimes reading these articles and watching crash videos scare the s*%t out of me and at times I wonder why I want to ride. But it won't stop me.
One thing to note maybe the reason for more accidents is fuel prices, and more newbies getting motorcycles. More new motocyclists = more accidents per capita.
Personally, I'd rather be on the road with someone who's going to give motorcycles wide berth to either do their thing or kill themselves than be on the road with someone who is so enraged that s/he bumps us/tries to kill us.
For every cage on the road who's driving well, I see a huge cluster who don't belong on the road. We all have our prejudices, and his happens to be motorcyclists. One can easily replace "motorcyclist" in his article with anything else.... women, asians, Oregonians, men, teens, older folks, etc.
SPDG (Same prejudice, different group).
Yeah it's definitely a personal peave point of view. I get the impression he's the slow guy in the fast lane-or the 10 mph under the speed limit driver.
True we (motorcyclists) get hurt more often (He's right we have little protection..)--often due to some cager talking on the cell phone- fiddling with a radio... READING--No shaZam! I see people reading the paper/books while driving.....or even worse doing their makeup ( women obviously).
How many accidents do they cause....get involved in and survive often with no injuries because of their cage?? He doesn't mention the 18 year old buzz bomb race car drivers ( buy a neon or a civic...slap a buzz bomb pipe and a wing on it and some graphics and wa-la you're a race car driver) driving like idiots...
Yeah there are alot of squids out there (we've all had our squidliness moments...all of us...) giving us all bad raps...
Anyway...
Quote from: pandy on August 22, 2006, 12:31:50 PM
One can easily replace "motorcyclist" in his article with anything else.... women, asians, Oregonians, men, teens, older folks, etc.
SPDG (Same prejudice, different group).
you hit it right on the mark.....and i love the word oregonians.. :thumb:....
I agree with pandy...if he hates motorcycles so much that he is willing to allow more space that's great. I wish everyone else was like that. Then we wouldn't have to worry about getting run over in the event of a crash.
You must admit, we're all prejudice to cagers too. The MSF course teaches us to be. We all have to think they are the worst drivers in the world and they may do something at anytime to cause us harm. This keeps us safe while riding. I know I slow down before then quickly move away when passing another vehicle because I think they might do something.
Can't we all just get along...
Quote: After reading your article, I find your story to be one of the more biased articles I have ever read. You completely negleted to mention that a vast number of motorcycle accidents are a result of driver neglegence. NOT the motorcyclist's, but rather the neglectful person behind the wheel of the car, suv, etc.
How many times have you seen someone driving while talking on a cell phone? In fact, I'm sure you've even done it a couple of times yourself (for the record, you mention doing just that in your article) , yet I do not see you writing an article on avoiding distractions while driving. The problem is that people climb inside their car and become impervious to the world around them. These are the people who turn left without looking, switch lanes without checking the blindspot etc. and in many cases, that neglect has unfortunately left many motorcyclists dead or severly injured.
If you are an educated, open minded person (which I'm assuming you are) then I emplore you to publish an article about the risks of driving while utilizing a cell phone, or even the effect of gas-guzzling SUV's on our environment. (A little food for thought, motorcycles are more fuel efficient than cars, and don't provide the same strain on roadways, allowing highways to last longer, thus reducing public expenditures every year on highway/road maintenance.)
The same type of backward thinking that spawned this article is the same type of thought that is the cause of so many problems domsetically and internationally.
Cheers.
I read the article, was offended, and decided to write the author. Above is my e-mail.
Quote from: Kweli-TY GS500 on August 22, 2006, 12:58:45 PM
you hit it right on the mark.....and i love the word oregonians.. :thumb:....
I knew I'd forgotten a group....Cellphonians (marinj reminded me). ;)
Quote from: Kweli-TY GS500 on August 22, 2006, 09:32:30 AM
def true....
i was reading another news story about this off duty police officer riding on the highway speeding and this fireman got annoyed of it..he tried to turn on his blue light but the cop did not slow down knowing that he was a fireman only...the guy than was enraged and rammed the bike ...dragging the guy for 300 yard...the guy blew a .12 and the state limit is .08 for alcohol....
i guess you just gotta be careful no matter what....and respect the ppl driving...
yep, its going around.
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/am-cop0814,0,2152280.story?track=rss
My MSF course didn't teach use to be bias towards cages, but to never grow complacent around other vehicles. It's a good message to, becasue we are small and cars sometimes do not see us. This gentleman is just afraid of being involved with injuring or killing a mototrcyclist and he can't stand squids. Good for him. I can't stad it when peple don't use turn signals and use fog lights in clear weather. I can't blame him.
-Anti 8)
This discussion reminds me of an article in autoweek from awhile back. The topic was how to improve today's driving in terms of skill and manners. One wrote how he had the perfect solution. It involved requiring all new drivers to be restricted to a motorcycle license for the first two years. He went on to say that those who didnt improve the general public's driving by eliminating themselves from the roads would be the best defensive drivers ever. Definitly satirical but there is a good point to it. If I can find the article I post it up over here.
Marinj, great response to the editor! :thumb:
Quote from: pantablo on August 22, 2006, 05:21:43 PM
yep, its going around.http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/am-cop0814,0,2152280.story?track=rss
What's really scary is that I see roadrage all around me. People are so protective of "their" space. Some won't use turn signals, because others then speed up to keep them from changing lanes. Others won't use turn signals, because they just want to keep the world guessing. :icon_rolleyes: Almost 100% of the erratic drivers I see turn out to have cell phones glued to their ears. Then there are the folks who don't watch the road because they're too busy watching their DVD players (doesn't matter that they're illegally installed...I see a LOT of those). I see people chasing each other, flipping each other off, yelling and screaming... I don't get it. Even on my worst days, I've never had a desire either to hurt anyone else, chase anyone... heck, I don't even usually flip people off, because there are just too many nuts out there.
I wonder what it's going to take to calm folks down on the roads... (And, no, Valium is not an option ;) )
Quote from: pandy on August 22, 2006, 08:32:30 PM
Quote from: pantablo on August 22, 2006, 05:21:43 PM
yep, its going around.http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/am-cop0814,0,2152280.story?track=rss
I see people chasing each other, flipping each other off, yelling and screaming... I don't get it. Even on my worst days, I've never had a desire either to hurt anyone else, chase anyone... heck, I don't even usually flip people off, because there are just too many nuts out there.
I wonder what it's going to take to calm folks down on the roads... (And, no, Valium is not an option ;) )
....yeh its soo wierd casue i never really noticed this when i never really got into motorcycles...but now when im trying to observe the actions of every driver out there...everyone seems like savages trying to fight their way through the road....but again its not every driver also...
valium might not work....but some time on a motorcycle might....thats my anti-drug..lol... O0
Quote from: pandy on August 22, 2006, 08:32:30 PM
Quote from: pantablo on August 22, 2006, 05:21:43 PM
yep, its going around.http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/am-cop0814,0,2152280.story?track=rss
What's really scary is that I see roadrage all around me. People are so protective of "their" space. Some won't use turn signals, because others then speed up to keep them from changing lanes. Others won't use turn signals, because they just want to keep the world guessing. :icon_rolleyes: Almost 100% of the erratic drivers I see turn out to have cell phones glued to their ears. Then there are the folks who don't watch the road because they're too busy watching their DVD players (doesn't matter that they're illegally installed...I see a LOT of those). I see people chasing each other, flipping each other off, yelling and screaming... I don't get it. Even on my worst days, I've never had a desire either to hurt anyone else, chase anyone... heck, I don't even usually flip people off, because there are just too many nuts out there.
I wonder what it's going to take to calm folks down on the roads... (And, no, Valium is not an option ;) )
Road rage == bad. Tho i must admit, i have fell victim to it.
One time there was some crazy chick behind me, who honked every time i didnt take off at a light (i always take a half second to check the intersection in front of me, and make sure i am completly balanced and ready to go)
Then from then on she would honk every time i hit my brakes.
I pulled off, let her go by, then followed her for the rest of my 30 minute commute, and blared my horn every time she touched her brakes. Not just hit it, but honked for a good like 5 seconds. Not saying it was the best choice, but it sure was fun :)
A note on turn signals though - Here in washington, you just dont use them. Nobody does. You put you signal on, and you are immidiatly blocked from changing lanes by the @$$hole next to you. happens EVERY time. The only time i signal (in the car anyway) is if i am stopping to make a left turn. In that case, i put my signal on a good block beforehand, to make sure people behind me know to get the hell around, or be stopped while i wait to turn.
Don't take this to mean that i just fly out in front of people, i am always mindful that i have enough space, and always check the blind spot. You just don't use signals in DC.
So i got an e-mail back from the editor/author of the article today, and he's decided to write an additional article. This one will be pro-motorcycle, and outline why motorcyclist's are just as afraid of some of the cagers out there.
I had to say I was surprised though, I really didn't think my e-mail would recieve a response from the editor.
[34
Quote from: marinj on August 23, 2006, 06:27:52 AM
So i got an e-mail back from the editor/author of the article today, and he's decided to write an additional article. This one will be pro-motorcycle, and outline why motorcyclist's are just as afraid of some of the cagers out there.
I had to say I was surprised though, I really didn't think my e-mail would recieve a response from the editor.
Kudos for him! For recognizing the view from the other side.
And, kudos to you! For informing him of such!
Also, regarding the way people drive, here's a little something I tell myself on the way home:
Everybody has to get home sometime. Meaning, no matter how fast you go, or how slow others are, you're still going to get home. Better, to do it safely, without pissing others off, or getting upset yourself. I wish others would understand this.
Quote from: scratch on August 22, 2006, 11:47:26 AM
One thing to note maybe the reason for more accidents is fuel prices, and more newbies getting motorcycles. More new motocyclists = more accidents per capita.
the opposit is true too, there are a lot more older and younger drivers nowadays than before. inexperience and old age drivers affect this too .
Quote from: marinj on August 22, 2006, 01:58:51 PM
Quote: After reading your article, I find your story to be one of the more biased articles I have ever read. You completely negleted to mention that a vast number of motorcycle accidents are a result of driver neglegence. NOT the motorcyclist's, but rather the neglectful person behind the wheel of the car, suv, etc.
How many times have you seen someone driving while talking on a cell phone? In fact, I'm sure you've even done it a couple of times yourself (for the record, you mention doing just that in your article) , yet I do not see you writing an article on avoiding distractions while driving. The problem is that people climb inside their car and become impervious to the world around them. These are the people who turn left without looking, switch lanes without checking the blindspot etc. and in many cases, that neglect has unfortunately left many motorcyclists dead or severly injured.
If you are an educated, open minded person (which I'm assuming you are) then I emplore you to publish an article about the risks of driving while utilizing a cell phone, or even the effect of gas-guzzling SUV's on our environment. (A little food for thought, motorcycles are more fuel efficient than cars, and don't provide the same strain on roadways, allowing highways to last longer, thus reducing public expenditures every year on highway/road maintenance.)
The same type of backward thinking that spawned this article is the same type of thought that is the cause of so many problems domsetically and internationally.
Cheers.
I read the article, was offended, and decided to write the author. Above is my e-mail.
Yea!! Good on you!! I was offended as well. What a biased ignorant cager.
Laura
Here's an interesting post I found in the paper's forum... turns out this Bob guy (the author) has his own section of the forum, and the only post in there is in reply to his motorcycle article. and here it is:
QuoteHi Bob, I am very surprised about your "rant" over motorcycles -
I'm guessing here but maybe one of your kids wants to get one?
Sure, there are a few bad motorcyclists who engage in extremely dangerous and illegal stunts such as what you have described but that does not increase the risk factor for safe riders. After all, every day bad car drivers commit DUI or gab on cell phones (recent studies indicate that cell phone usage can be as dangerous as DUI), and since there are many more car drivers than motorcyclists this is a much more serious problem to society. No exaggeration, every day I see car drivers engaged in distracting and illegal cell phone usage. Unfortunately, unlike a motorcycle, when a car or truck gets into an accident with another vehicle there is a far greater likelihood that others will be hurt or killed too, such as what happened in the recent cluster of horrific accidents on the thruway between Suffern and Harriman. Do you take a dim view of cars or do you try to encourage safer driving? I'm guessing probably the later? Why? Because you drive a car and would feel infringed upon if you had to give it up.
You are close to correct when you say that there is no protection on a motorcycle (when compared to a car occupant). There is no doubt that one is safer protected by steel and airbags but, just like motorcyclists, bicyclists and pedestrians lack the benefit of this protection too. You might scoff at the comparison but there is hardly a week that goes by this paper is not telling a tragic story about someone being struck by a car or truck in Rockland. As a motorcyclist and a 50+ mile/week bicyclist, from my experience, bicycling is far more dangerous than motorcycling. Only about 25% of car drivers are courteous to bicyclists, the rest behave as if bicylists are deliberate inconveniences to them and will cut you off or pass so closely that you think you are about to be hit or grazed (I've been grazed once). Furthermore, many roads have defects that would cause no issue with a car or motorcycle but could cause a bicylist to loose control (I broke my collar in part thanks to one of these). You might say that unlike a bicycle or pedestrain that a motorcycle is capable of far greater speed. This is true, however, according to the "Hurt Report" the average speed in motorcycle accidents is around 25 mph and accidents involving other vehicles most typically occur at an intersection (the same place where pedestrians flock), not on fast highways.
The point I am trying to make is that while being on a motorcycle makes one more vulnerable than being in a car it is not out of line with the risk that many other common activities that we partake in can pose. Take that group of irresponsible motorcyclists you described and put them in automobiles and I can guarantee you that that the stakes go up for everyone else on the road too. But this is a moot dare because the fact that DUI is such a big issue proves that we already have a group of irresponsible people driving cars.
You could argue that riding a motorcyle is an optional activity but so is almost everthing else we do in life for fun. Instead of riding my bicycle outdoors I could use a stationary one in my basement, and instead of windsurfing on the Hudson River I could wad in a chlorinated pool watched over by a lifeguard.
wow, great that he's going to publicly respond. and the message in his forum is quite interesting and well written too. excellent.
Make sure you post his reply. I'm curious as to what he writes.
While i do dislike squids and Idiots all the same, Cagers and bikers alike share the same genes when it comes to "Mencia Moments" (DEE DEE Dee) but this sounded abit too whiney, even for a complaint. I do tend to watch the "squids" abit closer then the riders. this would include the "Tuner twisters" and the ever so loveable "4wheeling wankers" and lets not forget the "Telecomunicapperotti's" hell, these days im finding RoadRage to be a constant companion trying to egg me on in helping these folks understand the fundamentals of Darwinism. Thankfuly Ive been able to keep it in check.
i cant and wont say im a model driver, but i will also say i refuse to get stupid when im feeling crazy. as to this writer, he is entitled to his feelings and expressions. i do have the urge to send him some "Puff's with lotion"
I have to agree with the forum author. Squids are squids, whether in their car or on a bike. This guy (http://www.guardonline.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=35931&edition_id=1531&format=html) was my neighbor, and I taught him in high school during my 9-week stint as a high school math teacher in Cord, AR. He wasn't a bad guy, but he was a stereotypical squid. He'd had two serious (one near-fatal) motorcycle accidents that I know of. About a minute before the accident, he nearly ran my aunt off the road. She says that he was probably going over 100 mph at the time. The road he wrecked on isn't exactly deals gap, but there are very few sections where speeds in excess of 70 are reasonable (55 speed limit). It was the first semi-twisty road that I got to ride on.
The AMA (American Motorcyclist Association) promotes legislation regarding riders' rights, and lots more good things I don't have time or grey matter sufficient to go into now. Join us.
You give people horsepower and some of them will abuse it.
That's just the way it is.
I can ride around all day doing a reasonable sembelance of the speed limit (5 over or so, and even then I'm getting run down) on the GS, which especially on surface streets, is capable of some pretty intense manuvers. (Clutch it and ride on one wheel between two 25mph cagers at 45 doesn't really require 140+hp)
(BTW I know my speedo error exactly)
On most roads I just go with the traffic, on the twisty back bits I wait till there's no one around to witness/partake in my stupidity before I play at all.
Honestly the best way to do it is to provide more tracks and figure out ways to make it cheaper/easier to get out there. Waivers work wonders.
Quote from: pandy on August 22, 2006, 12:31:50 PM
Personally, I'd rather be on the road with someone who's going to give motorcycles wide berth to either do their thing or kill themselves than be on the road with someone who is so enraged that s/he bumps us/tries to kill us.
For every cage on the road who's driving well, I see a huge cluster who don't belong on the road. We all have our prejudices, and his happens to be motorcyclists. One can easily replace "motorcyclist" in his article with anything else.... women, asians, Oregonians, men, teens, older folks, etc.
SPDG (Same prejudice, different group).
What do you have against oregonians?
I love Oregonians...<---see, it was the only one that i capitalized! :P ;)
Quote from: pandy on August 24, 2006, 11:01:44 AM
I love Oregonians...<---see, it was the only one that i capitalized! :P ;)
You'd better say that. ;)
:icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen: :kiss3: